System that encourages teamwork.

[Morithias]

I have officially thrown out D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. I am done with it.

I am now looking for a system that is the exact opposite of 3.5.

While 3.5 the answer to everything was "Let the mage handle it" and there were so many design flaws, looking back it's clear that my nostalgia clearly clouded my thoughts. First-order-optimal strategy and game breakers ahoy!

I am now looking for a game that is the exact opposite.

A game that forces the players to actually think on their feet, and use teamwork, rather than just use a select ability to end any encounter no matter how major.

I want a system that you CAN'T munchkin in. I want a system that makes Tippy scream in horror when he reads it. I want a system where almost EVERY choice is equally valid.

I want a system, that if you were a devil in hell tasked with giving an ironic torture session to a min-maxing munchkin, you would make him play.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I have officially thrown out D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder. I am done with it.

I am now looking for a system that is the exact opposite of 3.5.

While 3.5 the answer to everything was "Let the mage handle it" and there were so many design flaws, looking back it's clear that my nostalgia clearly clouded my thoughts. First-order-optimal strategy and game breakers ahoy!

I am now looking for a game that is the exact opposite.

A game that forces the players to actually think on their feet, and use teamwork, rather than just use a select ability to end any encounter no matter how major.

I want a system that you CAN'T munchkin in. I want a system that makes Tippy scream in horror when he reads it. I want a system where almost EVERY choice is equally valid.

I want a system, that if you were a devil in hell tasked with giving an ironic torture session to a min-maxing munchkin, you would make him play.

I'm going to go with FATE. It's more about making a story than "winning", and has a rather slim number of mechanics to worry about making it hard/impossible to min-max.

[Vitruviansquid]

4th edition DnD has a mandatory teamwork element because each player class has a specific role, that works best in concert with allies of different roles... though 4e is also munchkinnable, breakable, or min-maxable.

[Morithias]

I'm going to go with FATE. It's more about making a story than "winning", and has a rather slim number of mechanics to worry about making it hard/impossible to min-max.

Geeze and it even has a SRD. This is looking pretty good.

[erikun]

Sounds like you want the new Fate core system. Yes, everyone can just run up and smack each other around if they want. But if a character wants to help someone else out - or the opponent is just too resistant to damage - it is just as easy to generate advantages that they can use. Advantages can be something equivalent to tripping an opponent, to something a bit more permanent like tying up their arm in a curtain or wounding a leg.

[shadow_archmagi]

4th edition DnD has a mandatory teamwork element because each player class has a specific role, that works best in concert with allies of different roles... though 4e is also munchkinnable, breakable, or min-maxable.

I have to agree. 4E gives everyone useful abilities that complement each other, so you end up with fights like

DM: Ogres appear! They attack the Rogue and Fighter!

Rogue: I can stab him for a pile of damage, but I'd really like it if I didn't get hit again. Could someone be so kind as to-

Bard: I cast SIDEWAYS TAUNT and slide the ogre away from the Rogue, towards the fighter!

Fighter: I cast Punch Everyone Nearby, dealing damage every round to both of them!

Wizard: I cast Wall of Wall between the Rogue and the Ogre, ensuring that he stays in punchland!


Admittedly, you can optimize, but the quartiles (0, 25, 50, 75, 100%) of optimization are waay closer together than in 3.5.

[Sith_Happens]

I cast Punch Everyone Nearby

[Interest in 4E intensifies]

[Jack of Spades]

I'm also going to say 4E may be what you're looking for. It's a well balanced game first, most other things second. I also don't play 3.x/PF in general because of the issues you have with the system, but last time I played 4E I had a blast feeling competent as a pregen fighter of all things.

[Sir_Mopalot]

I think the suggestions here are basically just where they should be. The question is just how tactical a game you want. Fate is not tactical in any real way, it's too busy being a narrative game. 4e is much better at scratching that war-gamey itch, but enforces roleplaying much less at the mechanical level. Both are very team-work focused, although I'd give a slight edge to Fate, since literally any character archetype can assist any other character archetype. Jimmy Olsen can actually help Superman, which is not something that you see in most systems.

[MickJay]

I'd suggest Amber Diceless. It can still be used to power game, but given that narration tends to be the key to get anything done, it's much harder to munchkin.

[Bosaxon]

I'm going to throw Hunter: The Vigil into the mix. Since it's a human-based game, rather than the supernaturals commonly found in the WoD, the equalizer is the fact humans have to utilize cooperative efforts in their tactics. Essentially, when performing an advance combat action, all team members who support the primary actor roll their dice pool and then this helps the primary actors role. There are utility tactics too, so you don't really have to be combat beast to still shine.

[Jay R]

In any D&D game before 3E, player cleverness and tactics were far more important than a maxed-out character. There are some possibilities for munchkinning, but the most optimized character doesn't get through the door unless played well by a player who can think through the situation.

[Airk]

I'm going to kinda come down on the other side of the fence for 4E; Yes, it encourages teamwork, but a person with enough time on their hands and access to the character builder can do some CRAZY MUNCHKIN stuff with the system.

I suggest: Mouse Guard!. I've never played a game in which teamwork was more crucial, or more built into the underlying structure of the rules.