afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread IV

[afroakuma]

Alrighty, another big stack!

What do you suppose would happen to a mortal who traveled to an alternate Prime with an alternate cosmology and died? Would his soul return to his own universe and his correct outer plane?

Not tremendously likely without making prior arrangements. The Plane of Shadow is not a suitable conduit for souls. Would depend on the specific cosmology, however, and how porous the boundaries are (lot of portals or prior transit, for instance).

Or would he be stuck in whatever that universe's equivalent would be?

In many cosmologies, this would happen.

What if he was a Cleric who tried to establish worship of his deity in that alternate universe?

Wouldn't take. Deity can't come through. A god within the new cosmology would likely take over the duties involved.

Would he be able to cultivate faith for his deity like he would if he just traveled to a different crystal sphere?

Very no.

How difficult is it to create portals between crystal spheres? Assuming the overdeities in charge of them have no issue with the idea.

Still pretty rare, since calculating the variables for the portal is not easy. Very few such portals exist; overdeities really don't like them and between the crystal spheres and the phlogiston it's very hard to pull off.

I asked this question previously and was ignored.

No you weren't, I missed said question. Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to error, especially when I'm so overtly malicious.

Is there a canonical backstory for the dark ones, and if so what is it?

What dark ones?

Are there traitors in the Blood War? By which I mean fiends who willingly and knowingly aid the other side, not ones who are forced (e.g., by blackmail) or duped into helping the enemy.

No, except in the most indirect terms (tanar'ri too lazy to join the war, fiends too cowardly to get in on the fight, etc.)

-(assuming plane shifted-in "normal" PCs) is there a plane that would be particularly responsive to music? As in, would be a great place for Bards and certain performers?

Arborea. Elysium's not bad either.

-is it wrong to assume Boccob might not be against pact magic

Yes.

-are there any Powers who are known to show interest in Adventurers/PCs that are really talented with Bluff/Intimidate/Diplomancy?

I can't think of one offhand but there must be a number of them.

-(follow-up)are there any examples of gods giving a boon for the in-game-equivilant of an epic-level Intimidate or something?

Can't think of one, but it would be kind of silly.

-if for some reason all knowledge of who/what Boccob is was erased from living/recorded memory and everyone somehow converted to non-god sources of magic (nature, ideal, demons...) would Boccob (or his concept) live on due to the persistance of magic?

Yup. He'd still need to reestablish worship, but he'd survive for quite some time.

-is there a more extreme response from the gods than what happened to Tharizdun?

Yes and no. Gods can fight against and destroy other gods; Tharizdun's a special case, since he's something terrible and alien which under confinement has the traits of an intermediate power.

-is there a scenario "worse" than what Tharizdun would accomplish/what might warrent another "The Prisoner"?

Ehh, worse is subjective.

-if a (divine caster) of (standard god) were aware of their god being effectively destroyed in their setting, and was transported to a setting with a "still living" form of their god, what might they experience after the initial emotional wreck and shock?

"Effectively destroyed?"

I suppose the core of my question regarding "aberration-invasion" is more, what have you really enjoyed, or how might you do it?.

Never done it myself or played it; don't have time right now to talk about how I'd do it.

If you were the judge of a "Greatest Horrors of the Ages Planes" pagent, is there an obvious answer off-hand?

Draeden.

Has there been any WotC adventure that was largely horrors-from-elsewhere focused you enjoyed? If yes, what?

As Eldan said above, The Gates of Firestorm Peak is the classic. Perfect? Nah. Good? Yep.

And questions for you, afro!

1. Why are Muspelheim/Nidavellir part of Ysgard? Neither seem Chaotic or Good to me.

Ysgard's a plane that suffers from insufficient details, which is sad. I always loved it, it's a great plane.

Muspelheim is a blazing land of hearty extremes, a place to challenge the unprepared and test the mettle of heroes. Though life here is harsh and relentless, those who falter always have the opportunity to get back up and try again. It is a divided land, a place where water and ice dance with blistering flames, with towering foes to fire the imagination and stoke the forges of war. Muspelheim wants to see you fight hard, die hard and burn until you can kick the land itself in the teeth.

Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and caverns. A place of mystery, change and uncertainty, it's riddled with magic and shadow wars between the many tribes that call it home. It is the place of jealous craft; of individual exceptionalism secreted away; of being brave in the dark and waging fierce wars in the eternal cavernous twilight. Nidavellir wants you to carve out a place to stand in its darkest reaches and raise your torch high, telling everyone else to come and take it from you if they dare. Strife is expected and to be exemplary is to secure your place here, but you'd better be able to back up your claims because you'll always be challenged to prove yourself.

2. Pandemonium has layers, but they are fairly similar. What are the philosophical differences that separate them?

Pandesmos seems to be associated with isolation, emptiness and desolation. It's big, vast and cavernous, but terribly empty and miserable. Cocytus is known as the layer of lamentation for the screaming winds that besiege it; its blasting winds are the most fierce of the plane, associated with pain, sorrow and a terrible resident agony. Phlegethon is weariness, draining and dire, and the layer itself eats away at light and warmth as it erodes endurance and any scrap of joy. Agathion is claustrophobic, insular and secretive, with the occasional explosion of killing wind from the upper layers. Degenerate and covetous madness is reflected in its stone pockets.

[Vedhin]

Muspelheim is a blazing land of hearty extremes, a place to challenge the unprepared and test the mettle of heroes. Though life here is harsh and relentless, those who falter always have the opportunity to get back up and try again. It is a divided land, a place where water and ice dance with blistering flames, with towering foes to fire the imagination and stoke the forges of war. Muspelheim wants to see you fight hard, die hard and burn until you can kick the land itself in the teeth.

Nidavellir is the realm of darkness and caverns. A place of mystery, change and uncertainty, it's riddled with magic and shadow wars between the many tribes that call it home. It is the place of jealous craft; of individual exceptionalism secreted away; of being brave in the dark and waging fierce wars in the eternal cavernous twilight. Nidavellir wants you to carve out a place to stand in its darkest reaches and raise your torch high, telling everyone else to come and take it from you if they dare. Strife is expected and to be exemplary is to secure your place here, but you'd better be able to back up your claims because you'll always be challenged to prove yourself.

Pandesmos seems to be associated with isolation, emptiness and desolation. It's big, vast and cavernous, but terribly empty and miserable. Cocytus is known as the layer of lamentation for the screaming winds that besiege it; its blasting winds are the most fierce of the plane, associated with pain, sorrow and a terrible resident agony. Phlegethon is weariness, draining and dire, and the layer itself eats away at light and warmth as it erodes endurance and any scrap of joy. Agathion is claustrophobic, insular and secretive, with the occasional explosion of killing wind from the upper layers. Degenerate and covetous madness is reflected in its stone pockets.

As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.

[Eldan]

Now I'm really tempted to start an Ysgard project. Maybe it's because I've read too much Sword and Sorcery lately and Ysgard is pretty much the plane of Sword and Sorcery.

[Tragak]

Now I'm really tempted to start an Ysgard project. Maybe it's because I've read too much Sword and Sorcery lately and Ysgard is pretty much the plane of Sword and Sorcery.

Would you like me to send you what I've come up with for Ysgard fluff?

[afroakuma]

As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.

Hence this thread. And its three predecessors.

[Aliek]

Obox-ob time!

What is the relationship between Pale night and Obox-ob?

At his height of power, was Obox-ob vermin-themed or something else?

Was Obox-ob at his prime stronger than Miska?

And lastly, since what is now Obox-ob was born from an aspect of his prime self, is it still possible for him to recover his old form?

[enderlord99]

Obox-ob time!

What is the relationship between Pale night and Obox-ob?

At his height of power, was Obox-ob vermin-themed or something else?

Was Obox-ob at his prime stronger than Miska?

And lastly, since what is now Obox-ob was born from an aspect of his prime self, is it still possible for him to recover his old form?

I know almost exactly what Afro would say if not for the fact that I'm posting this before he gets the chance. (He still might do so, but it would be redundant.)

Spoiler

Show

Read the Tides of War adventure path. It's explained there.

How did I do?

EDIT: Well, I was wrong. He actually gave information beyond that.

[afroakuma]

Obox-ob time!

What is the relationship between Pale night and Obox-ob?

They were likely colleagues at one point, though they currently share no relationship. Both despise the eladrins, though; if Obox-ob were ever to reclaim his title, she would be one of his first and strongest allies in the slaughter.

At his height of power, was Obox-ob vermin-themed or something else?

Unknown. He was likely not exclusively associated with vermin.

Was Obox-ob at his prime stronger than Miska?

Oh yes.

And lastly, since what is now Obox-ob was born from an aspect of his prime self, is it still possible for him to recover his old form?

In theory, it should be.

[enderlord99]

On a scale of "negative twelve" to "positive eleventy-crawfish," how much of each of the following is this post?

• Self-referencial
• Funny
• Confusing
• Annoying
• Slaad-like
• Marmalade

[nyarlathotep]

The dark ones I inquire about are the fiend folio creatures that include the dark creeper and dark stalker variants.

[Evolved Shrimp]

I think the yugoloths are know to be so utterly corrupt that they have no reservations in betraying their employers if they think they can get away with it and it won't damage their longtime business plans.

Sure, but they’re just hired help. That’s more like breach of contract.

I was thinking of actual treason where a devil helps the demons or vice versa. It’s easy to imagine that this sort of thing happens for tactical reasons – most likely material gain. But I was wondering if cases are known where there were more interesting motives.

[TuggyNE]

Self-referencial

*Self-referential.

– Lexicorut unit TuggyNE, inevitable of spelling and grammar.

[Brookshw]

As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.

A) correct, B) can I Sig that?

[Vedhin]

Now I'm really tempted to start an Ysgard project. Maybe it's because I've read too much Sword and Sorcery lately and Ysgard is pretty much the plane of Sword and Sorcery.

B) This is why I like it, and A) I'd help.

On a scale of "negative twelve" to "positive eleventy-crawfish," how much of each of the following is this post?

• Self-referential
• Funny
• Confusing
• Annoying
• Slaad-like
• Marmalade

• seven-squid
• two-eel
• negative-three-jellyfish
• five-octopus
• one-shark
• twelve-piranha

A) correct, B) can I Sig that?

Yes.

[Yora]

What dark ones?

Dark Stalker and Dark Creepers.

And I've been doing quite some amount of research on this a few months back, and pretty much anything you can find is their entry in the 1st Ed. Fiend Folio and lots of forum threads asking about them, which all end concluding that there isn't really anything more about them.

Which I think is quite fascinating. For some reason they are really cool and have lots of fans, but there isn't really anything to know about them. They are just some guys in the underdark in black cloaks who hate light and are not evil.
I frequently considered using them in some way in my campaign, but I just don't have any ideas what to do with them. All the motivations given for them is that they want to be left alone. So it really comes down to breaking into some innocent peoples village causing mayhem, or respecting their wishes and ignoring them. Not a great setup for adventures.

I know almost exactly what Afro would say if not for the fact that I'm posting this before he gets the chance. (He still might do so, but it would be redundant.)

Spoiler

Show

Tides of War

How did I do?

You mean

Spoiler

Show

Savage Tide?

[Eldan]

B) This is why I like it, and A) I'd help.

Cool. I'll dig out my Planes of Chaos and get reading, then.

Afro: do you know any good sources on Ysgard other than Planes of Chaos? Any adventures that go there? (I can't remember any). Any interesting Ysgardian creatures in third edition?

I remember Valkyries in Tome of Battle, those fit like a glove. I'll probably look into magical conditions on Ysgard, too, I have a few ideas there.

[RúsëaMenci]

Don’t forget the gloryborn chainmail bikinis.

[afroakuma]

The dark ones I inquire about are the fiend folio creatures that include the dark creeper and dark stalker variants.

Ah yes, them. Forgot that they were now called "dark ones" in unison.

There's really very little to say about them. Their origins are mysterious, their culture limited, secretive and grim, they worship darkness rather than any known deity and though to all accounts they must be two distinct species, they operate as one. Even the most in-depth source on them is vague and offers few theories and no conclusions (as articles go, it's a pretty lousy one).

I was thinking of actual treason where a devil helps the demons or vice versa. It’s easy to imagine that this sort of thing happens for tactical reasons – most likely material gain.

And yet it does not. To a devil there is no advantage sufficient enough, for the Lords of the Nine would punish such a transgression most fiercely; to a demon, hate is more important than any other incentive and they all hate the devils too much to allow even an inch of ground to be given in the Blood War.

Afro: do you know any good sources on Ysgard other than Planes of Chaos? Any adventures that go there? (I can't remember any).

That would still be the book. I'll try to check some other sources when I have the opportunity, but it's slim pickings.

Any interesting Ysgardian creatures in third edition?

Fensir are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head (Fiend Folio). Valkyries from ToB are an obvious choice.

[Brookshw]

Any interesting Ysgardian creatures in third edition

The Einherjar in Dieties & Demigods might be worth looking at.

[afroakuma]

Any adventures that go there? (I can't remember any).

Having tapped into the resources again, nope. The Great Modron March skips over Glorium and Ysgard completely, Doors to the Unknown doesn't access it, and even Tales from the Infinite Staircase, taking place on the bloody Infinite Staircase, doesn't involve Ysgard.

Clueless Primes, not writing more about the Plane of Awesome.

Anyway, there's still one more source I can check... but I doubt we'll get anywhere.

[Vedhin]

Clueless Primes, not writing more about the Plane of Awesome.

And the sad thing is, Ysgard is pretty much literally the Plane of Awesome. It's all about becoming awesomer.

[Eldan]

Having tapped into the resources again, nope. The Great Modron March skips over Glorium and Ysgard completely, Doors to the Unknown doesn't access it, and even Tales from the Infinite Staircase, taking place on the bloody Infinite Staircase, doesn't involve Ysgard.

Clueless Primes, not writing more about the Plane of Awesome.

Anyway, there's still one more source I can check... but I doubt we'll get anywhere.

Yeah, I know it's sad. I ran Infinite Staircase and I had to write my own way for the party to get there.

They ended up sailing a small mountain across the magma ocean, while fighting off Fire Giant pirates in obsidian war canoes.

[afroakuma]

Bah, one day I'll get there. Ysgard did have some draft work done...

[Khedrac]

If you don't mind really trawling through the ancient stuff, Dragon issue 90 had an adventure called Aesir Hammer set in Ysgard with some information ont he plane and its inhabitants.

[Eldan]

If you don't mind really trawling through the ancient stuff, Dragon issue 90 had an adventure called Aesir Hammer set in Ysgard with some information ont he plane and its inhabitants.

I'll see if I can find that anywhere, thanks.

An slightly different question for everyone here: how about mythological creatures that would fit? I'm especially looking for those that aren't Norse in origin, because Ygard has that covered and should be diversified a bit. It's a bit difficult to define what goes on Ysgard, but it should mesh with a general idea that Ysgard challenges visitors and inhabitants. The plane is not malicious or cruel, but it will not hold back, if you can take it. So, not things that are outright evil, especially not those that curse, weaken or create spawn, but magnificient, glorious beasts and heroes.

[Khedrac]

A slightly different question for everyone here: how about mythological creatures that would fit? I'm especially looking for those that aren't Norse in origin, because Ysgard has that covered and should be diversified a bit. It's a bit difficult to define what goes on Ysgard, but it should mesh with a general idea that Ysgard challenges visitors and inhabitants. The plane is not malicious or cruel, but it will not hold back, if you can take it. So, not things that are outright evil, especially not those that curse, weaken or create spawn, but magnificent, glorious beasts and heroes.

Straight off the top of my head, what about Sphinxes? They would seem to fit the bill if we can find one with a compatible alignment.

[Vedhin]

I'll see if I can find that anywhere, thanks.

I managed to dig up a copy. If you like, I can offer a synopsis of the adventure (after I finish reading it).

An slightly different question for everyone here: how about mythological creatures that would fit? I'm especially looking for those that aren't Norse in origin, because Ygard has that covered and should be diversified a bit. It's a bit difficult to define what goes on Ysgard, but it should mesh with a general idea that Ysgard challenges visitors and inhabitants. The plane is not malicious or cruel, but it will not hold back, if you can take it. So, not things that are outright evil, especially not those that curse, weaken or create spawn, but magnificient, glorious beasts and heroes.

Something tells me that Hydras would be good.

Edit: Also Minotaurs, Manticores, and Chimeras. Ysgard already has non-CE drow, so it can easily have nonEvil versions of these. Maybe Trolls, and definitely Winter Wolves, if the Winter Wolves aren't already there.

[Tragak]

Something tells me that Hydras would be good.

I love it.

I've always felt that Ysgard takes the Evil ethos "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, therefore you should try to beat people down and then convince the survivors that it was for their own good" and then twists it into a much more benevolent "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, therefore you should help people through the challenges that would otherwise have killed them."

And now that you mention hydras, can anything possibly symbolize this trial by fire better than a monster that specifically becomes stronger the more you damage it?

[RúsëaMenci]

.Edit: Also Dinosaurs

Oh. Oh, now you've done it. Now Afro'll kill us all. Nice job breaking it, hero.

[Vedhin]

Oh. Oh, now you've done it. Now Afro'll kill us all. Nice job breaking it, hero.

I've done nothing of the sort.