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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Hello all!

    I've created this class just for fun and I'd like to hear some comments on it:)

    The Sword Saint
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors..."
    ―Gaiden Shinji, Sword Saint

    A Sword Saint is a swordsman who has reached a peak of unmatched skill in the use of his weapon of choice, switching between different combat styles in order to face different situations at best.

    Prerequisites
    Bab: +8
    Feats: Combat Focus, Improved Critical (Any sword), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Any sword).

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Die: d10.
    Class Skills: The Sword Saintís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at each Level: 4+Int modifier

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Battle Instinct, Combat Styles

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Strong Arms, Uncanny Dodge

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Unerring Strike

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Gash, Improved Uncanny Dodge

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Weapon Mastery[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: sword saints are proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

    Battle Instinct (Ex): The sword saint gains a bonus equal to +1/class level to his initiative. Moreover, once per round, when he would normally be hit with a melee weapon or natural attack, he may parry it so that he take no damage from it. He must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to parry a melee weapon or natural attack doesn't count as an action. The sword saint cannot parry attacks made from creatures that are more then one step bigger then him. A sword saint can parry an additional attack per round at 5th level.

    Combat Styles: Sword saints use two different kind of combat styles. Each of these provide different kind of bonuses. Combat styles can only be used if the sword saint is wielding a sword one handed or two handed and he cannot use shields that require the use of the other hand.
    The sword saint can change combat style with a move action.
    The combat styles are:

    Strong Style: To use this style the sword saint must wield his sword two handed. The bonus provided by the Power Attack feat increases by .5 times. (e.g. a sword saint wielding a longsword with one hand who takes a -2 penalty to attack roll will receive a +3 bonus on damage rolls; if the same sword saint would have wielded his longsword two handed, the bonus would have been +6). While using this combat style, the sword saint is considered to be in possess of the Great Cleave feat and can take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feat. He is still limited to one such adjustment per round, so he cannot use this ability during a round in which he has already taken a 5-foot step.

    Swift Style: To use this style the sword saint must wield his sword one handed. When the sword saint take a full round attack action, he may take a 5 foot step that doesn't provoke attack of opportunity between one attack and another. This free steps cannot exceed his maximum speed. When he reach his maximum speed he stops where he is, but he can still finish his attack action. He also gain another attack at his maximum base attack bonus when taking a full round attack action but at a -2 penalty on the attack roll. This extra attack stacks with that provided by haste and similar effects.

    Strong Arms (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the sword saint add 1.5 times his Strenght modifier to damage rolls made when wielding a sword one handed and 2 times his Strenght modifier to damage rolls made made when wielding a sword two handed.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a sword saint can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
    If a sword saint already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a sword saint with at least two levels of barbarian, for example), he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

    Unerring Strike (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, the sword saint's mastery in swords fight prevent him to fall into the normal limits of other swordsmen. He no longer automatically fails an attack roll on a roll of 1. He might still fail the attack if his result fails to equal or beat the enemy's AC.

    Gash (Ex): At 4th level and higher, the sword saint's attacks are so powerful that not even the hardiest opponent can resist them. The sword saint ignore 10 points of enemies' damage reduction, except for DR/Epic.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A sword saint of 4th level or higher can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies to a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more levels than the target does.
    If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

    Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 5th level, the sword saint truly becomes a master in the use of his sword of choice. A 5th level sword saint choose one kind of sword that can be wielded both one and two handed, such as longsword, bastard sword, great sword or scimitar. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (◊2 becomes ◊3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.


    ---

    I was also considering the possibility of adding in some special techniques tied to combat styles, usable a certain number of times per encounter (something like ToB maneuvers) but I couldn't think of something particulary innovative for the techniques: so far they were just feat and spells adaptations. If you guys have any idea (that is not "just go with ToB"), I'd like to hear it:)
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-12-10 at 03:45 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    Hello all!

    Today I've created this class just for fun and I'd like to hear some comments on it:)

    The Sword Saint
    Spoiler
    Show
    "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors..."
    ―Gaiden Shinji, Sword Saint

    A Sword Saint is a swordsman who has reached a peak of unmatched skill in the use of his weapon of choice, switching between different combat styles in order to face different situations at best.

    Prerequisites
    Bab: +8
    Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Critical (Any sword), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Any sword)
    Proficiency: must be proficient with at least one kind of sword that can be wielded one and two handed.

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Die: d12.
    Class Skills: The Sword Saintís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at each Level: 4+Int modifier

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Battle Instinct, Combat Styles

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Strong Arms, Uncanny Dodge

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Mettle

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Gash, Improved Uncanny Dodge

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Weapon Mastery[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: sword saints are proficient with all simple and martial weapons.

    Battle Instinct (Ex): The sword saint gains a bonus equal to +1/class level to its initiative. Moreover, once per round, when he would normally be hit with a melee weapon or natural attack, he may parry it so that he take no damage from it. He must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to parry a melee weapon or natural attack doesn't count as an action. The sword saint can only parry attacks made from creatures that are at least one step bigger then himself. A sword saint can parry an additional attack per round at 5th level.

    Combat Styles: sword saints use two different kind of combat styles. Each of these provide different kind of bonuses. Combat styles can only be used if the sword saint is wielding a sword one handed or two handed and he cannot use shields that require the use of the other hand.
    The sword saint can change combat style with a move action.
    The combat styles are:

    Strong Style: The bonus provided by the Power Attack feat increases by .5 times. (e.g. a sword saint wielding a longsword with one hand who takes a -2 penalty to attack roll will receive a +3 bonus on damage rolls; if the same sword saint would have wielded his longsword two handed, the bonus would have been +6). While using this combat style, the sword saint is considered to be in possess of the Great Cleave feat and can take a 5-foot step between attacks when using the Cleave or Great Cleave feat. She is still limited to one such adjustment per round, so she cannot use this ability during a round in which she has already taken a 5-foot step.

    Swift Style: The bonus provided by the Combat Expertise feat increases by .5 times. (e.g. a sword saint taking a penalty of -2 to attack rolls would get a bonus of +3 to its AC). The sword saint also gain Improved Combat Expertise as a bonus feat as long as he is using this combat style and also gain a +4 bonus on his AC against attack of opportunities; this bonus stacks with that provided by the Mobility feat.

    Strong Arms (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the sword saint add 1.5 times his Strenght modifier to damage rolls made when wielding a weapon one handed and 2 times his Strenght modifier to damage rolls made made when wielding a weapon two handed.

    Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a sword saint can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
    If a sword saint already has uncanny dodge from a different class (a sword saint with at least two levels of barbarian, for example), he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

    Mettle (Ex): At 3rd level and higher, a sword saint can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping sword saint does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Gash (Ex): At 4th level and higher, the sword saint's attacks are so powerful that not even the hardiest opponent can resist them. The sword saint ignore 10 points of enemies' damage reduction, except for DR/Epic.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A sword saint of 4th level or higher can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker. This defense denies to a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more levels than the target does.
    If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

    Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 5th level, the sword saint truly becomes a master in the use of his sword of choice. A 5th level sword saint choose one kind of sword that can be wielded both one and two handed, such as longsword, bastard sword, great sword or scimitar. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (◊2 becomes ◊3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.


    ---

    I was also considering the possibility of adding in some special techniques tied to combat styles, usable a certain number of times per encounter (something like ToB maneuvers) but I couldn't think of something particulary innovative for the techniques: so far they were just feat and spells adaptations. If you guys have any idea (that is not "just go with ToB"), I'd like to hear it:)
    Well, you pretty much have a weapon master in 5 levels. You deal more damage and pick up a couple of features to ignore save/suck situations. As a standard concept it is well executed for the most part but I think with the name something more mystical can be allowed if not encouraged. As such state a more specific one so proper abilities can be made. The only things I would really suggest changing is the automatic confirmation of critical threats. Instinctive Consummator is a psionic feat that when you expend your psionic focus the attack roll is rolled as a confirmation roll. It kind of begs PA spammable automatic hit unlimited times a day without charging and such. While even with a feat it takes a move action with in combat to refocus there are lots of ways to make it a swift or gain another one. Also the swift style is just more a bit more AC, damage scales a lot more.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2013-12-07 at 01:20 PM.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    Well, you pretty much have a weapon master in 5 levels. You deal more damage and pick up a couple of features to ignore save/suck situations. As a standard concept it is well executed for the most part but I think with the name something more mystical can be allowed if not encouraged. As such state a more specific one so proper abilities can be made. The only things I would really suggest changing is the automatic confirmation of critical threats. Instinctive Consummator is a psionic feat that when you expend your psionic focus the attack roll is rolled as a confirmation roll. It kind of begs PA spammable automatic hit unlimited times a day without charging and such. While even with a feat it takes a move action with in combat to refocus there are lots of ways to make it a swift or gain another one. Also the swift style is just more a bit more AC, damage scales a lot more.
    I'm aware of the "Kensai" part of the sword saint and I'm also aware that it evoke images of a lot of mystical abilities to someone who think about it, but with this I wanted to recreate a more mundane approach to that concept and try to make a class that represent someone that is just the best at wielding a sword...I don't have the presunction to say that I'm successful on all fronts (I'm sure there are better ways to be a better swordsman than this class), but I like the result and I'd like to remain as mundane as possible...that said, I'm always open to constructive criticism and techniques could change a thing or two anyway

    The auto-crit confirmation is actually an ability taken from Pathfinder's fighter, so I didn't expected it to be one of the main concerns..

    I'm also thinking about doubling the bonus on the swift style and grant whirlind attack feat instead of a plain +4 against AoO...I'm just unsure about granting this feat or the ability to strike multiple times the same target on AoO if he provoke them more than once (or to strike him just once, as usual, but with iterative attacks)...suggestions??
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-12-07 at 07:11 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    First off, some cleanup: You sometimes use "he" for the character, and sometimes "she". Judging from the picture you chose, I'm guessing you meant "he" throughout. And a greatsword (which you list in the capstone ability) can't be wielded one-handed.

    Also, the "special" requirement in the prereqs seems kind of redundant, since it's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever be interested in this class who wasn't proficient with all martial weapons already (including the longsword). Plus, you've already got the Weapon Focus feat in the requirements, and that requires proficiency, too.

    On to the substance of it: The styles seem a little dry-- They mostly just give you bigger numbers. If it were just the first four levels, I don't think I'd consider this class. The capstone is pretty good, though, and that's probably enough to make it worthwhile.

    Ordinarily, I'd warn against using a mechanic that increases the critical damage modifier, since that means vastly different things for different base multipliers. Here, though, it's probably OK, since it can only be used for swords, and so far as I know those are all the same multiplier (x2).

    And I'm not quite sure what Mettle and a d12 HD is doing in there. It's a cool ability, to be sure, but I don't really see how it fits into the rest of the class. This is a class about using a weapon very skillfully, not a class about being tough and resilient.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    óAs You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    First off, some cleanup: You sometimes use "he" for the character, and sometimes "she". Judging from the picture you chose, I'm guessing you meant "he" throughout. And a greatsword (which you list in the capstone ability) can't be wielded one-handed.

    I thought I catch all of the pronouns, I'll search them and fix them! Anyway, a great sword can be wielded one handed with a feat (monkey grip?) so I've listed it just so that there are no doubts about it

    Also, the "special" requirement in the prereqs seems kind of redundant, since it's extremely unlikely that anyone would ever be interested in this class who wasn't proficient with all martial weapons already (including the longsword). Plus, you've already got the Weapon Focus feat in the requirements, and that requires proficiency, too.

    seems fair, I'll remove the special requirement

    On to the substance of it: The styles seem a little dry-- They mostly just give you bigger numbers. If it were just the first four levels, I don't think I'd consider this class. The capstone is pretty good, though, and that's probably enough to make it worthwhile.

    mmh, well as you may read from precedent posts I'm trying to make styles a little bit 'funnier'..do you have suggestions about them or about other levels?

    Ordinarily, I'd warn against using a mechanic that increases the critical damage modifier, since that means vastly different things for different base multipliers. Here, though, it's probably OK, since it can only be used for swords, and so far as I know those are all the same multiplier (x2).

    that's the reason why I've choosen that capstone: while the auto crit is good, i don't think that a, at best, 17-20/x3 auto crit would be game breaking..scimitar would be a little bit more hard hitter but, if I'm correct, that's the only case.

    Also, keep in mind that this bonus applies only to one type of sword


    And I'm not quite sure what Mettle and a d12 HD is doing in there. It's a cool ability, to be sure, but I don't really see how it fits into the rest of the class. This is a class about using a weapon very skillfully, not a class about being tough and resilient.

    those are the remainings of the first version of the class, when it was more similar to the mythical kensai, so it was supposed to be an hardy warrior able to shrug off negative effects and continue the fight...again, if you or someone else have a good idea on how to replace mettle, I'd be happy to hear it [forget it, I've already change it]...meanwhile I'll change the HD
    Answer is bolded in the quote

    First post updated
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-12-07 at 08:32 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    I ... really like this. The concept is one I really like, and one that I've tried to play as a fighter before; the mechanics are strong, and definitely give melees nice things. I would definitely play this if a DM allowed homebrew, unless ToB was also allowed.

    That said, I can't tell if this is supposed to be a focus-on-one-weapon class (as evidenced by the prereqs and the capstone) or a general-weapons-master (as evidenced by unfocused abilities like Strong Arms and Unerring Strike). If you want the former, I'd suggest limiting all abilities to either a specific weapon, or any sword.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    The auto-crit confirmation is actually an ability taken from Pathfinder's fighter, so I didn't expected it to be one of the main concerns..

    I'm also thinking about doubling the bonus on the swift style and grant whirlind attack feat instead of a plain +4 against AoO...I'm just unsure about granting this feat or the ability to strike multiple times the same target on AoO if he provoke them more than once (or to strike him just once, as usual, but with iterative attacks)...suggestions??
    1. Except of course you said it is for 3.5. Pathfinder doesn't have Instinctive Consummator. The point is the only condition you end up having to meet is whether or not it is in range, right? It also means a Scythe will have Power Attack bonus damage of 45 points per BAB they have.
    2. Give them more mobility, extra five foot step or even make another attack a standard action attack instead when they meet certain conditions.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Thaddeus View Post
    I ... really like this. The concept is one I really like, and one that I've tried to play as a fighter before; the mechanics are strong, and definitely give melees nice things. I would definitely play this if a DM allowed homebrew, unless ToB was also allowed.

    That said, I can't tell if this is supposed to be a focus-on-one-weapon class (as evidenced by the prereqs and the capstone) or a general-weapons-master (as evidenced by unfocused abilities like Strong Arms and Unerring Strike). If you want the former, I'd suggest limiting all abilities to either a specific weapon, or any sword.
    Ah, that is right and it was one thing I noticed as well; what I wanted to do was to create a class that switch between one and two handed combat...I think this need to be better depicted and I'm gonna change the styles in order to better represent it! ah, forget...I now understand what you mean't (I also wonder how could I've got wrong, since it was pretty clear...well, I guess everyone get sleepy from time to time)...well, some abilities are clearly focused on a weapon of choice: that is the weapon that the sword saint has learned to use best. Other, like strong arms or unerring strike, are just representing the strenght or the ability of the character in striking his foes, so I thought about not limiting them with just one weapon..

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Except of course you said it is for 3.5. Pathfinder doesn't have Instinctive Consummator. The point is the only condition you end up having to meet is whether or not it is in range, right? It also means a Scythe will have Power Attack bonus damage of 45 points per BAB they have.
    2. Give them more mobility, extra five foot step or even make another attack a standard action attack instead when they meet certain conditions.
    1. I'm still unsure about it..I like it as a capstone and for a possible level 14 it doesn't seem all that broke to me...you also have to consider that not always psionics are allowed or available...
    2. I've gave them something that is, in my opinion, cheesier! First post updated again! Also the feat prerequisites have been changed accordingly to changes made.
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-12-08 at 08:30 AM.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Shameless bump: orginal post updated with typos correction and some changes to the class' abilities.

    Also, I'm still looking for opinions on swift style, unerring strike, weapon mastery and techniques..:)

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Note: as an Elder Scrolls fan, I am sorry to tell you that Gaiden Shinji didn't survive, making his advice about advice invalid

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 PrC] Sword Saint

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviting View Post
    Note: as an Elder Scrolls fan, I am sorry to tell you that Gaiden Shinji didn't survive, making his advice about advice invalid
    Being an Elder Scrolls fan as well I know it well, but I just like that quote from Gaiden Shinji so much I couldn't resist to use it for the class!
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-12-15 at 07:19 AM.

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