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Thread: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
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2013-12-27, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Dungeons & Dragons Editions
I wrote short reviews of two early incarnations of D&D on my blog. I'm going to do the rest later.
Thoughts?
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2013-12-27, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
It reads more like a polemic than a review. You come out and say where you've gone at the start and the purpose of the piece seems to be proving that this was the right choice. Even understood in that way, this is a deficient work, as there's very little proof - the great majority of what's written is vague and subjective. Obviously, your opinion is your own and I can't argue with it, but a reviewer ought to try to describe the product as it is, rather than merely convey their impression of it.
One of the few factual statements,
TSR (the company that owned D&D until the new millennium) wanted players to start with the D&D Basic Set, and then move on to Advanced D&D
Similarly,
One can’t buy the AD&D First Edition books in any digital format, but they were recently reprinted, and are available on Amazon for too much money.Useful stuff on my blog:
Arguing Alignments | Bathing in fantasy RPGs | How to win D&D
Reviews:
Latest: "Lest Darkness Rise" (D&D 3.5, 7th level characters, Scooby Doo feel)
Indexes of reviewed adventures: Free and PWYW (OSR) | Costing $2 or less (D&D3.x/Pathfinder)
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2013-12-27, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
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2013-12-27, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
Where did you get that impression?
I hadn't known that amazon sold used versions of the AD&D First edition books. What I was talking about was the reprints.Useful stuff on my blog:
Arguing Alignments | Bathing in fantasy RPGs | How to win D&D
Reviews:
Latest: "Lest Darkness Rise" (D&D 3.5, 7th level characters, Scooby Doo feel)
Indexes of reviewed adventures: Free and PWYW (OSR) | Costing $2 or less (D&D3.x/Pathfinder)
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2013-12-27, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
You might want to take a look at Wikipedia's entry on the editions of D&D just to clarify a few issues and clear up some misunderstandings. Basic D&D was supported by TSR well into AD&D2e's print cycle, and mostly up until TSR went out of business and the license was sold to Wizards of the Coast.
SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread
A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
original image
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2013-12-27, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
I corrected the factual errors.
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2013-12-28, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
Part II is up.
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2013-12-28, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
Just so you know, Ravenloft was a 1st edition setting.
I'm also wondering a bit about the point of these articles, because it seems like you just provided a brief description followed by "I wouldn't recommend it." At least, that's what the second part definitely feels like.SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread
A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
original image
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2013-12-28, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
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2013-12-28, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-12-28, 04:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
that players handbook with the guy on the horse was the first one I owned an it has a special place for me. Sure we houseruled it into something closer to warhammer 2e (before it came out) then what was in the books because the game as written was awful.
But it spurred our imagination and made us all want to keep playing. So its worth remembering fondly.
You seem to hate every edition of D&D, which makes you a terrible reviewer.
Sure none of them were awesome games per se. And other games have certainly done better on their various themes. But D&D is the game that doesnt need a theme.
Its just general fantasy action. So no its not the best at anything. It cant be because it has to be all things to all people and the precludes any product from homing in the way takes to be the best at anything.
But dang if those older, weird as hell, games dont deserve some respect for being what created, whole cloth, out of someones imagination, an entire world wide hobby.
If they were that awful none of us would be here now talking about themLast edited by andresrhoodie; 2013-12-28 at 04:11 AM.
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2013-12-28, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
To quote myself:
[I] still view [D&D] with a great deal of love and nostalgia. It shaped my childhood and enriched my imagination.I was introduced to D&D with the 1983 Basic Set by Frank Mentzer, and because of that, it holds a special place in my heart.Despite all of this, I think AD&D has a distinct charm. It isn’t what I would call a good game, but it has this contagious sense of wonder and fun. The third book of the three-volume set, called the Monster Manual, contains some of the most inventive creatures I have ever seen in a work of fantasy. There is an invisible emaciated platypus that feeds on psychic energy.
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2013-12-28, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
If you don't even know the three different versions of "Basic D&D" (Holmes, Moldvay, Mentzer) you probably shouldn't be reviewing D&D history, but rather learning more.
They're fairly different games, although Holmes and Moldvay are less so; they generally get lumped together under "B/X". Mentzer Basic became BECM (Basic, Expert, Companion, Master), which is a rather different beast.
Basically, Holmes' Basic D&D was just a clean-up of Gygax's original D&D (OD&D), Moldvay's Basic expanded on that with Dave Cook's Expert Set, and BECM added much, much, much more.
I actually wrote an edition history on these forums, if you're interested. That's about as accurate as I can make it (I guess I should've included the distinction that the first Expert Set was edited by Dave Cook, rather than implying it is "Tom Moldvay's").D&D retroclones:
SpoilerAdventurer Conqueror King
Basic Fantasy (free)
Dark Dungeons (free)
Dungeon Crawl Classics
Labyrinth Lord (free)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (free)
Mazes & Minotaurs (free)
Myth & Magic (free)
OSRIC (free)
Swords & Wizardry (free)
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2013-12-29, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
Reviewing your review...
(NB: I haven't been playing long enough to have personal experience of D&D from before AD&D 2E and BECM, but I do have years of reading grognards' writings and OSR blogs, and I have read and own every single D&D corebook set up to 4E.)
Part I
This includes the original 1974 boxed set, which is extremely rare and obscure.
Incidentally, WotC sells OD&D reprints.
The game flows pretty smoothly once the players have gotten used to its quirks.
Overall, you gloss over one of the biggest editions of D&D (BECMI spanned five boxed sets of two rulebooks each, plus dozens of modules and a huge setting, Mystara) without really telling the reader anything of substance about it. You don't explain how the rules differ from other editions (race as class, attack throws, saving throw classes, XP-for-treasure, etc.).
In particular, you fail to present any argument for your conclusion:
One could probably have a better experience playing a newer, more refined adventure game.
Basic D&D, and Advanced D&D. The latter has more rules, more options, more content, more strangeness.
Reviewing Basic without addressing its place as a part of a larger ruleset is deficient and inaccurate, I feel.
Characters can also advance to become much more powerful.
Some of these classes blatantly outshine others, and several have strange and arbitrary traits.
...
Mechanically, the game is a convoluted mess. There are too many rules. Some of the rules contradict eachother.
For instance, the Psionics rules are a known Charlie-Foxtrot.
although the advice is hit-or-miss and the tools can feel unwieldy.
So, Part I: I feel you should try to argue, not assert, a point, and that you need a larger and more comprehensive understanding of the games you review, their full extent, and their actual content. Addressing AD&D 1E but not Unearthed Arcana or Oriental Adventures seems like you're glossing over half the published game.
Part II:
This seems to have been done to appease angry parents, since demonic creatures were removed from the game, and the whole thing seems like it is trying to be inoffensive.
and the whole thing seems like it is trying to be inoffensive.
While AD&D Second Edition may be underwhelming on its own
Like First Edition, there is no way to purchase digital copies of most of the Second Edition books, but hard copies can be bought second-hand on various websites. I wouldn’t recommend the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual – but some of the stranger supplements are definitely worth a look.
The parts about 3E and 4E don't have glaring inaccuracies, but again, you just assert, don't argue; your reviews are so thin as to be useless. They boil down to "I like, I don't like" which isn't useful to anyone who doesn't know their tastes line up with yours; from what you've written, we don't even get an understanding of what elements you like in the games you like.D&D retroclones:
SpoilerAdventurer Conqueror King
Basic Fantasy (free)
Dark Dungeons (free)
Dungeon Crawl Classics
Labyrinth Lord (free)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (free)
Mazes & Minotaurs (free)
Myth & Magic (free)
OSRIC (free)
Swords & Wizardry (free)
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2014-01-09, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dungeons & Dragons Editions
I was able to buy a copy of all of the 1st edition books sometime around 1997 I believe. I had the books but was moving towards running off of a laptop back then. I bought the books straight from TSR. I believe some of them can be found on DriveThruRPG now.