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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

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    Nov 2011

    Default Dragon Heritage Feats

    Inspired by the recent thread on dragon disciples, I have thought up a series of dragon heritage feats that work like aberrant feats and turn you into a half-dragon. This is meant to be better than stuff like dodge, but not as good as things like improved initiative.

    Dragon Heritage [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus against sleep and paralysis effects equal to the number of [Draconic] feats you have. You gain darkvision out to 60' and low-light vision, if you did not have them already.

    In addition, choose a color of dragon, and you gain energy resistance equal to twice your number of [Draconic] feats against the energy associated with that type (see table 3).
    Special: If you have 4 or more [Draconic] feats, you become immune to sleep and paralysis effects and immune to the energy type that you had energy resistance against here.

    Draconic Wings [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats.
    Benefit: You grow a pair of wings, with a fly speed equal to 10 per [Draconic] feat you possess, or twice your land speed, whichever is less. Your maneuverability is average.

    Dragon's Toughness [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to your armor class equal to 1 plus the number of [Draconic] feats you possess, to a maximum of +4.

    If you have more than 3 [Draconic] feats, you gain 1 HP per hit die.

    If you have more than 5 [Draconic] feats, you gain +2 Constitution.

    Dragon's Breath [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats
    Benefit: You gain a breath weapon according to your chosen dragon type, dealing 2d8 damage per [Draconic] feat you posess. A successful reflex save halves this damage (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Constitution modifier)

    Claws of the Dragon [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a bite attack with damage according to your size as listed here. If you already have a bite attack, you may choose which to use when you would be entitled to a bite attack.

    If you have 3 or more [Draconic] feats, you also gain 2 claw attacks, as listed in the same link above. These claws are on 2 of your arms or your primary forelegs, so if there are claws already there you may choose which to use when you would be entitled to claw attacks.

    Draconic Muscle [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus to strength increases by 1 plus 1 per [Draconic] feat you possess. If you already have a racial bonus to strength, it increases by this amount instead.
    Last edited by Just to Browse; 2013-12-28 at 04:52 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Dragon Heritage Feats

    Um. Is this intended to replace what's in Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic, or supplement it?
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Dragon Heritage Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Inspired by the recent thread on dragon disciples, I have thought up a series of dragon heritage feats that work like aberrant feats and turn you into a half-dragon. This is meant to be better than stuff like dodge, but not as good as things like improved initiative.

    Dragon Heritage [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus against sleep and paralysis effects equal to the number of [Draconic] feats you have. You gain darkvision out to 60' and low-light vision, if you did not have them already.

    In addition, choose a color of dragon, and you gain energy resistance equal to twice your number of [Draconic] feats against the energy associated with that type (see table 3).
    Special: If you have 4 or more [Draconic] feats, you become immune to sleep and paralysis effects and immune to the energy type that you had energy resistance against here.

    Draconic Wings [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats.
    Benefit: You grow a pair of wings, with a fly speed equal to 10 per [Draconic] feat you possess, or twice your land speed, whichever is less. Your maneuverability is average.

    Dragon's Toughness [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to your armor class equal to 1 plus the number of [Draconic] feats you possess, to a maximum of +4.

    If you have more than 3 [Draconic] feats, you gain 1 HP per hit die.

    If you have more than 5 [Draconic] feats, you gain +2 Constitution.

    Dragon's Breath [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats
    Benefit: You gain a breath weapon according to your chosen dragon type, dealing 2d8 damage per [Draconic] feat you posess. A successful reflex save halves this damage (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Constitution modifier)

    Claws of the Dragon [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a bite attack with damage according to your size as listed here.

    If you have 3 or more [Draconic] feats, you also gain 2 claw attacks, as listed in the same link above.

    Draconic Muscle [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus to strength increases by 1 plus 1 per [Draconic] feat you possess. If you already have a racial bonus to strength, it increases by this amount instead.
    I really like that you made things here more synergistic and things generally come to a plateau at 5 feats. Draconic Heritage is no longer a strict feat tax plus darkvision and low-light vision can be really handy. However, draconic muscle really has got to be changed when considering races such as Orcs and Goliaths. While this is being a little nit-picky a feat it doesn't really make much sense that Claws of the Wyrm first gives a bite.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dragon Heritage Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon Heritage [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus against sleep and paralysis effects equal to the number of [Draconic] feats you have. You gain darkvision out to 60' and low-light vision, if you did not have them already.
    Unless you increase by 30' (max 120') / multiply range (max x4), this is unfair to races with darkvision / lowlight vision.


    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon's Toughness [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to your armor class equal to 1 plus the number of [Draconic] feats you possess, to a maximum of +4.

    If you have more than 3 [Draconic] feats, you gain 1 HP per hit die.

    If you have more than 5 [Draconic] feats, you gain +2 Constitution.
    Why stop at +4 ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon's Breath [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats
    Benefit: You gain a breath weapon according to your chosen dragon type, dealing 2d8 damage per [Draconic] feat you posess. A successful reflex save halves this damage (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Constitution modifier)
    Too much.
    A human could get 6d8 by 3rd level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Claws of the Dragon [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a bite attack with damage according to your size as listed here.

    If you have 3 or more [Draconic] feats, you also gain 2 claw attacks, as listed in the same link above.
    "Dragon's Fang" sounds more appropriate, according to what this feat does.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Dragon Heritage Feats

    My general complain about these feats is that they don't seem at all inferior to Improved Initiative, despite your claim to the contrary. My criticism go as follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon Heritage [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus against sleep and paralysis effects equal to the number of [Draconic] feats you have. You gain darkvision out to 60' and low-light vision, if you did not have them already.

    In addition, choose a color of dragon, and you gain energy resistance equal to twice your number of [Draconic] feats against the energy associated with that type (see table 3).
    Special: If you have 4 or more [Draconic] feats, you become immune to sleep and paralysis effects and immune to the energy type that you had energy resistance against here.
    Apart from the comments on darkvision and low-light vision already mentioned, I am totally against giving a character energy immunity for a single feat that has no drawback and gives you additional benefits. Also, it makes the Draconic Resistance feat obsolete (which was probably your intend, though, but still has some implications).

    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Draconic Wings [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats.
    Benefit: You grow a pair of wings, with a fly speed equal to 10 per [Draconic] feat you possess, or twice your land speed, whichever is less. Your maneuverability is average.
    There aren't many feats that give a fly speed (not to say that there aren't, but I can only think of one right now). Given that there is precedence, though, I will let this one go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon's Toughness [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to your armor class equal to 1 plus the number of [Draconic] feats you possess, to a maximum of +4.

    If you have more than 3 [Draconic] feats, you gain 1 HP per hit die.

    If you have more than 5 [Draconic] feats, you gain +2 Constitution.
    This feat appears to be a combination of many feats that it was apparently intended to make obsolete. Gaining a natural armor bonus of +4, 2 hit points per hit dice and a +1 bonus on Fortitude saves look like it is worth at least two feats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Dragon's Breath [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Draconic] feats
    Benefit: You gain a breath weapon according to your chosen dragon type, dealing 2d8 damage per [Draconic] feat you posess. A successful reflex save halves this damage (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Constitution modifier)
    As previously mentioned, this is too much damage, too early.
    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Claws of the Dragon [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a bite attack with damage according to your size as listed here.

    If you have 3 or more [Draconic] feats, you also gain 2 claw attacks, as listed in the same link above.
    Most feats that give you natural weapons only give one or two. Also, what happens if you already have a bite attack and claw attacks? If the natural weapons stack, this is too strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Just to Browse View Post
    Draconic Muscle [Draconic]
    Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage
    Benefit: You gain a racial bonus to strength increases by 1 plus 1 per [Draconic] feat you possess. If you already have a racial bonus to strength, it increases by this amount instead.
    The other ones here seem to think this is too strong for characters who already have a racial bonus to Strength, so I'll agree with them on that.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Dragon Heritage Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by WbtE View Post
    Um. Is this intended to replace what's in Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic, or supplement it?
    Replace it, methinks. I don't want players foolishly focusing AC or doubling breath weapons or something, so this just gets rid of all of that and replaces it with synergistic things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    I really like that you made things here more synergistic and things generally come to a plateau at 5 feats. Draconic Heritage is no longer a strict feat tax plus darkvision and low-light vision can be really handy. However, draconic muscle really has got to be changed when considering races such as Orcs and Goliaths. While this is being a little nit-picky a feat it doesn't really make much sense that Claws of the Wyrm first gives a bite.
    I'm not really worried about Draconic Muscle. At level 6, the point when melee power truly peaks, you get +4 Strength, which amounts to +2 to hit and +3 damage with a two-handed weapon. At level 1 the bonus is only +1 to Str modifier, which is kind of like a less-bad version of weapon focus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Unless you increase by 30' (max 120') / multiply range (max x4), this is unfair to races with darkvision / lowlight vision.

    Why stop at +4 ?
    My goal was to for the feat chain to culminate in you being a full half-dragon. Increasing vision range and boosting AC beyond +4 was outside of the scope of the template. The more I look at the feats, the dumber that rationale sounds, so I'll improve the ranges if you're still of the mind.

    Too much.
    A human could get 6d8 by 3rd level.
    And here I was considering the high levels and thinking it was too little. If a human burned every feat he's get 16d8 (~20d6) by level 18, with a reflex save for half. That's pretty bad as far as clearing minions goes.

    So this feat needs a definite re-think. I was thinking 1d4/lvl, +1 die size per feat.

    "Dragon's Fang" sounds more appropriate, according to what this feat does.
    Good thought.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Apart from the comments on darkvision and low-light vision already mentioned, I am totally against giving a character energy immunity for a single feat that has no drawback and gives you additional benefits. Also, it makes the Draconic Resistance feat obsolete (which was probably your intend, though, but still has some implications).
    The drawback is that you need to be at least level 6 (if human) or level 9 otherwise, with full [Draconic] feat investment. If you plan on investing every single feat into dragon-ness and not getting power attack with full to-hit, spells as a swift action, or a 20% chance to shoot the first rocket, then I'm willing to give you that immunity.

    There aren't many feats that give a fly speed (not to say that there aren't, but I can only think of one right now). Given that there is precedence, though, I will let this one go.
    I feel like this is one of the strongest abilities, since 3D travel makes so much of combat a big deal. Your concern is echoed, my friend.

    This feat appears to be a combination of many feats that it was apparently intended to make obsolete. Gaining a natural armor bonus of +4, 2 hit points per hit dice and a +1 bonus on Fortitude saves look like it is worth at least two feats.
    I mean, it probably looks that way because you needed to burn 5 feats to get there. A human with full investment does this at level 9. But by comparison, the feats it outshines (Improved Toughness, Great Fortitude, Improved Natural Armor) are a far cry from strong on their own. I'm not all that convinced, but more argument could change that.

    Most feats that give you natural weapons only give one or two. Also, what happens if you already have a bite attack and claw attacks? If the natural weapons stack, this is too strong.
    Yes, I consider those feats pretty bad. I mean, a 2-level dip in totemist gives you 4 natural attacks and it's not even that strong.

    Though I hate the RAW-ness of your other argument, I agree people could totally read this as "my dragonbear companion gets 4 natural attacks", so I will add a stipulation.

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