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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

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    Requirements
    Feats:Resonance Turquoise
    Meldshaping:Ability to shape three soulmelds; ability to bind a soulmeld to a chakra.
    Special:Bardic Music ability

    Class Skills: The soul singer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana, History, Nature, Religion, The Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (N/A), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Hit Die: D6
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spellcasting/Meldshaping
    1st
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +2
    Bardic Music, Songmeld +1 level of existing meldshaping class
    2nd
    +1
    +0
    +0
    +3
    Communion of the Soul (1 meld) +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    3rd
    +2
    +1
    +1
    +3
    Chakra Binds (Crown, Feet, Hands) +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    4th
    +3
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Indigo Chord +1 level of existing meldshaping class
    5th
    +3
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Song of Form +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    6th
    +4
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Chakra Binds (Arms, Brow, Shoulders) +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    7th
    +5
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Song of Spirit +1 level of existing meldshaping class
    8th
    +6/+1
    +2
    +2
    +6
    Communion of the Soul (2 melds) +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    9th
    +6/+1
    +3
    +3
    +6
    Chakra Binds (Throat, Waist) +1 level of existing meldshaping class and +1 level of bard spellcasting ability
    10th
    +7/+2
    +3
    +3
    +7
    Song of Binding +1 level of existing meldshaping class

    Class Features
    Bardic Music: Soul singer levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the soul singerís daily uses of his bardic music abilities (if any) and the value of the bonus granted by inspire courage (if the soul singer has that bardic music ability).

    Meldshaping: At each soul singer level, you increase your meldshaper level, the number of soulmelds you can shape, the number of chakra binds you can create, and your essentia pool as if you had gained a level in a meldshaping class to which you belonged prior to gaining the soul singer level. You do not, however, gain any other abilities of that class, such as new tiers of chakra binds. If you had more than one meldshaping class before becoming a soul singer, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining your essentia pool, meldshaper level, and the number of soulmelds and chakra binds available.

    Spellcasting: At ever level except 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a the bard class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

    Songmeld: A soul singer does not merely recite poetry or sing a song, they pour their very essence into their art. Starting at level 1, a soul singer may modify their bardic performances. When beginning a bardic music effect, the soul singer may immediately invest essentia into the song as if it were a soulmeld. Afterwards any essentia invested or removed changes the corresponding bonus granted by this ability.
    Countersong: Each point of essentia invested increases the result of the Performance check by +2.
    Fascinate: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.
    Inspire Courage: Each point of essentia invested increases ally's saves against charm and fear effects by +1.
    Inspire Competence: Each point of essentia invested increases the competence bonus granted by +2.
    Suggestion: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.
    Inspire Greatness: Each point of essentia invested grants an additional target beyond those normally allowed by the performance.
    Song of Freedom: Each point of essentia invested increases the caster level of the Break Enchantment effect by +2.
    Mass Suggestion: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.

    Communion of the Soul: A soul singer of 2nd level or higher with 10 or more ranks in a Perform skill learns to share the power of incarnum with his allies. As a move action he can start a performance that grants all allies within 30ft that can see and hear him the benefit of a soulmeld that he currently has shaped. Allies do not gain the bonus effects from essentia that the soul singer has invested into the meld. They must invest their own essentia, typically gained from uses of Resonance Turquoise. The soul singer can maintain this song for up to 1 minute per soul singer level.
    At level 8, a soul singer may share the up to two soulmelds with their allies.

    Chakra Binds: Beginning at 3nd level, you can bind your soulmelds to your chakras, granting you new powers based on the soulmeld and the chakra chosen. Binding a soulmeld to a chakra closes the body slot associated with that chakra, so that you cannot also benefit from a magic item worn on the body slot associated with that chakra.
    The number of chakra binds that you can have active at any one time depends on your level. At 3nd level, you can bind a soulmeld to your crown, feet or hands chakras. Beginning at 6th level, you can bind soulmelds to your arm, brow or shoulders chakras. At 9th level, you can bind soulmelds to your throat and waist chakras.

    Indigo Chord: A soul singer can enter into a deep meditative trance with the aid of their songs. Starting at level 4, a soul singer may expend the use of a Bardic Music performance as an immediate action to rearrange some or all of their essentia that is currently not locked.

    Song of Form (Su): One per day by expending a use of Bardic Music, a soul singer may shape a new soulmeld. This ability unshapes a soulmeld if applied to the same chakra slot. This cannot be used to exceed the normal maximum number of shaped soulmelds. If the soul singer already possesses the maximum amount of shaped soulmelds allowable, they may unshape another soulmeld of their choice. This process takes 1 minute to use.

    Song of the Spirit (Su): The soul singer has learned to use his music to draw out power from the deepest corners of his soul. By expending a use of Bardic Music as a swift action, a soul singer may gain a number of bonus essentia equal to his constitution modifier that last for a number of rounds equal to his charisma modifier. Essentia from multiple uses of this ability do not stack.

    Song of Binding (Su): The soul singer has reached the pinnacle of their craft, using the power of their music to unlock their chakra points. Once per day by expending a use of Bardic Music as a swift action, the soul singer may bind an existing soulmeld to an unoccupied chakra point of their choice. This ability may be used even if the soul singer normally does not have access to that chakra point. The affected soulmeld stays bound to the chakra for a number of rounds equal to the soul singer's charisma modifier. Any magical items occupying the associated body slot are suppressed for the duration of this effect.
    Last edited by Waker; 2016-05-29 at 05:04 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Resonance Turquoise [Bardic Music][Incarnum]
    You know how to make the soul of your allies resonate with your own.
    Prerequisite
    Con 13, Bardic Music, Perform 9 ranks.
    Benefit
    Once per day, you can invest essentia into this feat. You gain an additional bardic music ability called Resonance Turquoise.
    Resonance Turquoise (Su): As a standard action you can use music or poetic to energized the soul of your allies, allowing them to more effectively use their soulmeld. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear you perform. The effect last for as long as long as the ally hears you sing and for 5 rounds thereafter, singing Resonance Turquoise require concentration on your part, which means that you must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. The affected allies, including yourself, gain temporary essentia equal to the amount of essentia invested in this feat. Once the amount of essentia invested is chosen, it cannot be altered and remains invested for 24 hours.
    You gain 1 point of essentia.
    Last edited by Waker; 2014-01-04 at 04:29 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Here is yet another Incarnum project by me. Who knows, maybe I'll even finish this one since it's just a PrC and thus shorter than other class write-ups.

    One thing that kinda bothered me was that in MoI, so many classes got their options to mix in some Incarnum. Barbarians got Totem Rager, there are the two theurge PrCs and even a few little feats like Azure Wild Shape and Divine Soultouch further give options. The Bard however was left out out the mix. And since Bard and Incarnate are amongst my favorite classes, I figured I'd get these crazy kids together.
    The PrC makes use of an Incarnum feat taken from zagan's thread here.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Project is coming along nicely. Swapped Moral Performer for Resonance Turquoise to allow Bard/Totemist entry as well. Also started placing some of the unique class abilities as well, though I may rearrange when they are gained later.
    Just trying to think of a few small things to perhaps fill in a dead level or two, not to mention the capstone. Feel free to post any questions/suggestions that you might have. In the meanwhile, I also wouldn't mind finding a good picture for the character.

    1/3/14- Added Indigo Mantra. Think the Indigo portion of the name is kind of bleh, if anyone can think of a better name, tell me.
    Still trying to think of a capstone.

    As always, post! I always welcome critiques and suggestions.
    Last edited by Waker; 2014-01-03 at 09:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Nice theurge! Couple of things:

    1) Is there any benefit to Resonance Turquoise if the rest of the party isn't using incarnum? Especially since Communion of the Soul already shares the chosen soulmeld at its current investment.

    2) If 3+ bards use resonance turquoise on each other it seems that they can increase their essentia quite a bit, enough to have all their melds maxed out.

    3) I think the Songmeld DC boosts are too high; you're looking at +6 untyped DC or more at higher levels. Compare to Soulcaster which is granting +2 to +3 max, and only to one spell at a time rather than to all uses of a supernatural ability in a given day. I also think the Inspire Greatness ability is a bit too strong. I would reduce both of those to a 2:1 ratio, i.e. 2 essentia for +1 benefit.

    4) I don't like either part of "Indigo Mantra." A mantra implies a chant or something else long and ongoing, but what this ability does is a very fast, one-time effect. I'd go with a name like Cerulean Chord or Azure Allegro. Other than that I like what it does.


    Assume I liked anything I didn't comment on above.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2014-01-03 at 10:07 AM.

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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Critical breakdown, go.

    Note that I tend toward a conservative outlook in reviewing new material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Requirements
    Feats:Resonance Turquoise
    Meldshaping:Ability to shape three soulmelds; ability to bind a soulmeld to a chakra.
    Special:Bardic Music ability
    So far so good. The 9 ranks required by Resonance Turquoise gives you a nice hard limit* on entry after level 6 but it's not too specific about which type of meldshaper you enter with so you still get a bit of variety.

    Class Skills: The soul singer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana, History, Nature, Religion, The Planes) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (N/A), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
    I'm curios what the thought process was that led to this particular set of skills was. The lower number of class skills and points per level is a nice shift down from a bard but I don't know that the fewer ranks is strictly necessary.

    Hit Die: D6
    No comment here. D6 seems appropriate.

    Bardic Music: Soul singer levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the soul singerís daily uses of his bardic music abilities (if any) and the value of the bonus granted by inspire courage (if the soul singer has that bardic music ability).
    Given that the first class feature of this PrC modifies the standard bardic music effects, you might want to include something about the class counting as levels in bard toward granting those abilities since a multiclassed bard wouldn't get all of them otherwise.

    Meldshaping: At each soul singer level, you increase your meldshaper level, the number of soulmelds you can shape, the number of chakra binds you can create, and your essentia pool as if you had gained a level in a meldshaping class to which you belonged prior to gaining the soul singer level. You do not, however, gain any other abilities of that class, such as new tiers of chakra binds. If you had more than one meldshaping class before becoming a soul singer, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining your essentia pool, meldshaper level, and the number of soulmelds and chakra binds available.

    Spellcasting: At each soul singer level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a soul singer, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known.
    Standard theurgy here. You might consider skipping a level on one side or the other to offset the power of the class features. Some of them look quite potent at first blush.

    Songmeld: A soul singer does not merely recite poetry or sing a song, they pour their very essence into their art. Starting at level 1, a soul singer may invest essentia into their Bardic Performances. When using this ability, the soul singer must specify which performance they invest their essentia into.
    You should probably note whether this is part of the normal action for activating each of those bardic music effects or if it's a separate action done before hand as part of the usual essentia shifting on a swift action.

    Countersong: Each point of essentia invested increases a creatures saving throw by +2.
    You mean the soul singer gets a +2 bonus on his perform check for each point of essentia? The countersong ability doesn't actually change the value of a creature's saving throw but replaces it outright with a perform check.

    If what I've said is correct then you might consider reducing it to +1 per essentia. Overdoing save bonuses can make a character de facto immune to the thing the bonus applies to. As it stands you're looking at up to a +8 bonus which is pretty substantial for a skill bonus let alone a bonus modifying a saving throw.

    Fascinate: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.
    Dig it. This ability looks quite nice.

    Inspire Courage: Each point of essentia invested increases the bonus to hit and damage by +1.
    This is quite substantial. It's not broken good but it's definitely a key feature for the class, IMO.

    Inspire Competence: Each point of essentia invested increases the competence bonus granted by +3.
    Hmm. Overlaps with the typical item-granted bonus and swings as high as +12. Not bad. The possibility of it being combined with the countersong ability is a touch worrying, since there's at least one way to sing two bardic songs at once. This strikes me as another of the major reasons for choosing this PrC (beyond the basic theurgy that is).

    Suggestion: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.
    All good here.

    Inspire Greatness: Each point of essentia invested grants an additional target beyond those normally allowed by the performance.
    No problem with this one either.

    Song of Freedom: Each point of essentia invested increases the caster level of the Break Enchantment effect by +2.
    Nice but maybe bring it down to +1. CL enhancements are rarely massive even for such specific uses. +2 isn't overpowered though.

    Mass Suggestion: Each point of essentia invested increases the DC of the performance by +1.
    No problems with this one.

    Communion of the Soul: A soul singer of 2nd level or higher with 10 or more ranks in a Perform skill learns to share the power of incarnum with his allies. As a move action he can start a performance that grants all allies within 30ft that can see and hear him the benefit of a soulmeld that he currently has shaped. Allies gain the additional benefits received from essentia that the soul singer has invested in the meld, though they do not receive any additional benefit if the meld is bound to a chakra. The soul singer can maintain this song for up to 1 minute per soul singer level.
    At level 5, a soul singer may share the benefits of a soulmeld bound to a chakra.
    At level 8, a soul singer may share the up to two soulmelds with their allies. If both soulmelds are bound to a chakra, the allies only gain the additional benefits of one, chosen by the soul singer. This choice is shared by all allies.
    This is an extraordinarily potent effect and a big part of why I suggested that you not have the class grant +1 to meldshaping and spellcasting on every level. This, well above the modifications to standard bardic music, is the major draw of this class, IMO. I'm a bit curious about the move action activation since it'll still burn up his standard action on subsequent rounds while he maintains concentration. I'm also wondering why there's no essentia investment feature for this ability since investing essentia into bardic music style effects seems to be a major feature of the class.

    Chakra Binds: Beginning at 3nd level, you can bind your soulmelds to your chakras, granting you new powers based on the soulmeld and the chakra chosen. Binding a soulmeld to a chakra closes the body slot associated with that chakra, so that you cannot also benefit from a magic item worn on the body slot associated with that chakra.
    The number of chakra binds that you can have active at any one time depends on your level. At 3nd level, you can bind a soulmeld to your crown, feet or hands chakras. Beginning at 6th level, you can bind soulmelds to your arm, brow or shoulders chakras. At 9th level, you can bind soulmelds to your arms, brow, or shoulders chakras. At 9th level, you can bind soulmelds to your throat, waist and heart chakras.
    Except for the inclusion of the heart chakra at 9 this looks good. A theurge isn't usually as good as a single classed character at his schtick and including the heart chakra leaves very little reason to go straight totemist over totemist/ bard/ soulsinger.

    Indigo Mantra: A soul singer can enter into a deep meditative trance with the aid of their songs. Starting at level 4, a soul singer may expend the use of a Bardic Music performance as an immediate action to rearrange some or all of their essentia that is currently not locked.
    Aside from psyren's comment about the name of the feature, which I agree with, this seems like a dandy little feature.




    I hope this review proves helpful.

    *I'm aware that there are ways around such "hard" limits but they're, with one exception, all pretty cheesy and don't really warrant consideration when building homebrew unless you're homebrewing for Tippy and others like him.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2014-01-03 at 07:36 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    First off, I commend you for trying to make an Incarnate/Bard PrC, because I can see a lot of synergy here. It's a great concept, and I'd like to see it flourish.

    As with any homebrew project, however, there is some constructive criticism which I'd like to share.

    Resonant Turquoise is a balanced feat. Do recall that all essentia invested in a feat is stuck there until you rest for 8 hours, which means it's no longer in the available essentia pool. So this is going to dramatically limit what essentia can be placed elsewhere. However, you may wish to explicitly call this out as a use of Bardic Music, since that would simplify the wording.

    Songmeld is insanely powerful and probably needs a LOT of toning down. Some examples:

    Inspire Courage. So not only are you getting to stack Soul Singer with Bard for determining the modifier, but now you get to invest essentia into it as well? The synergy with Words of Creation is also going to be stupidly high, being able to break +20 for attack bonus and damage. Then synergize with DFI... this is crack on 'roids. Remember that you get a +1 soulmeld capacity from Incarnate, which is the easiest way to get here, and another feat for another +1. So you could be doubling the IC values pretty easily.

    5 from Bard/SoulSinger levels with the Vest of Legend to make up for the Incarnate levels
    +1 from Badge of Valor
    +1 from Song of Inspiration
    +1 from the feat Song of the Heart
    +7 from Songmeld (+5 then +1 from Incarnate and +1 from feat)
    = +15
    x2 from Words of Creation
    = +30!

    At lower and mid levels, you are still cranking out some pretty insane bonuses.

    Skill bonuses from Inspire Competence can also be horribly abused, since you're talking about +3/Essentia Invested. That's like +21 to a skill check of choice. That's pretty sizable.

    And of course, +7 DC's? Yeouch!

    Instead, I would actually make it a meld, similar to the Blademeld, with the following abilities:

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    Crown
    - shaped: +1 DC of Bardic Facinate. Essentia: +1 DC to Fascinate per essentia invested (Fascinate DC is based on a skill check already, this isn't going to break the bank)
    - Bound: +1 DC of Suggestion and Mass Suggestion. Essentia: +1 targets to Fascinate/essentia invested.

    Hands
    - shaped: +1 to bonus on skill checks via Inspire Competence. Essentia: additional +1/essentia invested. (+3/essentia is way too much, +1/essentia is much better)
    - Bound: Target is able to make an untrained skill check with the skill being boosted even when it would normally not be permitted.

    Feet
    -shaped: +1 to effective Bard level for Song of Freedom. Essentia: additional +1 effective Bard level/essentia invested
    - Bound: Song of Freedom may be used as a full-round action which provokes and Attack of Opportunity rather than requiring a full minute.

    Throat
    -shaped: +1 to the bonus granted by Inspire Courage. Essentia: +1 to the morale bonus to Will saves against Charm and Fear effects, but NOT attack or damage /essentia invested.
    - Bound: All targets gain immunity to Charm and Fear effects.


    This would make Songmeld a much more interesting ability, with several flexible options, but also require a meldshape slot be used.

    Communion of the Soul is pure crack and horribly overpowered. Consider, for a moment, sharing such meldshapes as Blink Shirt bound to totem (at-will DimDoor for the whole party). Melds can be exceedingly powerful, this is just too strong an ability.

    Instead, let's try synergizing your classes some more. Let's try this:

    You may expend a Bardic Music use to activate Incarnum Radiance. You may also expend a Bardic Music use to activate Share Incarnum Radiance if you do not have that ability, or to negate the Fatigue aftereffect if you already possess Share Incarnum Radiance.

    This gives you more party buffing without being totally over the top.

    Chakra Binds. You might want to rethink this. Throat/Waist and Heart are generally split up with Heart coming later.

    Also, the Least slots are coming WAY too late. With the prerequisites, the character is only going to lack one level in Incarnate before he gets them anyways. This, honestly, needs to go in the 2nd level slot. So let's swap it with Communion of the Soul. You may even want to push this back to 1st level and move Songmeld to 2nd

    This leaves 5th level for the Arms/Brow/Shoulder slots, 8th for Throat/Waist, and Heart at the capstone 10th.

    Indigo Manta is underpowered as written. You can already swap out non-locked Essentia as a swift action, doing so as an immediate action isn't much of a boost. How about this:

    For each ally affected by a Bardic Music, the Soul Singer gains one temporary point of Essentia, which is lost when the allies are no longer affected by the Bardic Music. You might want to push this back to level 9, since this can be quite powerful.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2014-01-03 at 07:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    5 from Bard/SoulSinger levels with the Vest of Legend to make up for the Incarnate levels
    +1 from Badge of Valor
    +1 from Song of Inspiration
    +1 from the feat Song of the Heart
    +7 from Songmeld (+5 then +1 from Incarnate and +1 from feat)
    = +15
    x2 from Words of Creation
    = +30!
    There's at least one error in this.

    The 7 from songmeld doesn't look at all right. For one thing, incarnate's expanded essentia capacity doesn't apply. It's strictly for soulmelds and does not increase the capacity of feats, spells, class features or anything else. For another the maximum capacity for a non-epic essentia receptacle is 4. Also, what feat are you talking about there?

    Moreover, the +16 that you get without songmeld is obscenely high anyway. When you get into overkill it really doesn't matter much if it's measured in inches or miles.

    I'll let the OP form his own opinions on the rest of your comments.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2014-01-03 at 10:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    First of all, thanks to you all for replying and critiquing my work. I appreciate it. Ok, now onto the responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    1) Is there any benefit to Resonance Turquoise if the rest of the party isn't using incarnum? Especially since Communion of the Soul already shares the chosen soulmeld at its current investment.
    If the rest of the party is does not have access to any incarnum related abilities, the feat does nothing for them. The suggestion for it working with Communion of the Soul is a good one. I may rewrite the ability to account for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    2) If 3+ bards use resonance turquoise on each other it seems that they can increase their essentia quite a bit, enough to have all their melds maxed out.
    A bit of a niche case, but yes they could gain quite a bit of extra essentia that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I'm curios what the thought process was that led to this particular set of skills was. The lower number of class skills and points per level is a nice shift down from a bard but I don't know that the fewer ranks is strictly necessary.
    Well, since it currently gives you full caster and meldshaper progression in addition to several decent class features, I figured the class could stomach the loss of a few skill points, especially since so many of the soulmelds increase skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Given that the first class feature of this PrC modifies the standard bardic music effects, you might want to include something about the class counting as levels in bard toward granting those abilities since a multiclassed bard wouldn't get all of them otherwise.
    I am debating doing that. Time will tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Standard theurgy here. You might consider skipping a level on one side or the other to offset the power of the class features. Some of them look quite potent at first blush.
    At least for now I want to keep full progression on both sides. I am using the Soul Caster/Manifester for comparison right now. More likely I will tone down on some of the class features a bit more before I drop progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    *I'm aware that there are ways around such "hard" limits but they're, with one exception, all pretty cheesy and don't really warrant consideration when building homebrew unless you're homebrewing for Tippy and others like him.
    I am definitely not advocating the use of Tippyesque homebrewing. Whenever I start a project, I tend to err on the side of caution and make class abilities strong (at least as I judge them) and then in time adjust them to what the rest of the community considers balanced.

    Songmeld
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    3) I think the Songmeld DC boosts are too high; you're looking at +6 untyped DC or more at higher levels. Compare to Soulcaster which is granting +2 to +3 max, and only to one spell at a time rather than to all uses of a supernatural ability in a given day. I also think the Inspire Greatness ability is a bit too strong. I would reduce both of those to a 2:1 ratio, i.e. 2 essentia for +1 benefit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    You should probably note whether this is part of the normal action for activating each of those bardic music effects or if it's a separate action done before hand as part of the usual essentia shifting on a swift action.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
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    Crown
    - shaped: +1 DC of Bardic Facinate. Essentia: +1 DC to Fascinate per essentia invested (Fascinate DC is based on a skill check already, this isn't going to break the bank)
    - Bound: +1 DC of Suggestion and Mass Suggestion. Essentia: +1 targets to Fascinate/essentia invested.
    Hands
    - shaped: +1 to bonus on skill checks via Inspire Competence. Essentia: additional +1/essentia invested. (+3/essentia is way too much, +1/essentia is much better)
    - Bound: Target is able to make an untrained skill check with the skill being boosted even when it would normally not be permitted.
    Feet
    -shaped: +1 to effective Bard level for Song of Freedom. Essentia: additional +1 effective Bard level/essentia invested
    - Bound: Song of Freedom may be used as a full-round action which provokes and Attack of Opportunity rather than requiring a full minute.
    Throat
    -shaped: +1 to the bonus granted by Inspire Courage. Essentia: +1 to the morale bonus to Will saves against Charm and Fear effects, but NOT attack or damage /essentia invested.
    - Bound: All targets gain immunity to Charm and Fear effects.
    Well, the first thing Iíll point out about the Songmeld is that despite its name, itís a class feature and not an actual meld, so an Incarnates essentia capacity or the feat Improved Essentia capacity wonít affect it, thus the limit to how much essentia you can invest is 4. That can be a bit of a boost to the music effects, but somewhat more manageable. I'll ponder a little bit and think of adjusting the numbers a little.
    I do also like your suggestion Shneeky. I may consider adjusting the ability to something like that in the future.

    Indigo Mantra
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    4) I don't like either part of "Indigo Mantra." A mantra implies a chant or something else long and ongoing, but what this ability does is a very fast, one-time effect. I'd go with a name like Cerulean Chord or Azure Allegro. Other than that I like what it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Indigo Manta is underpowered as written. You can already swap out non-locked Essentia as a swift action, doing so as an immediate action isn't much of a boost. How about this
    Honestly I wasn't too proud of the name either. It was simply one of the first things I could think of before I went to sleep and I needed a placeholder name other than "Blue Bard Dealie".
    The Mantra isn't meant to be terribly powerful, mostly just a situational tool. Of course you can swap around essentia as a swift action, but this ability is more useful for when you suddenly really, really need it elsewhere. Like if the dragon is using a breath weapon and you would prefer having some extra Reflex from Impulse Boots or some other situation.

    Communion of the Soul
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    This is an extraordinarily potent effect and a big part of why I suggested that you not have the class grant +1 to meldshaping and spellcasting on every level. This, well above the modifications to standard bardic music, is the major draw of this class, IMO. I'm a bit curious about the move action activation since it'll still burn up his standard action on subsequent rounds while he maintains concentration. I'm also wondering why there's no essentia investment feature for this ability since investing essentia into bardic music style effects seems to be a major feature of the class
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Communion of the Soul is pure crack and horribly overpowered. Consider, for a moment, sharing such meldshapes as Blink Shirt bound to totem (at-will DimDoor for the whole party). Melds can be exceedingly powerful, this is just too strong an ability.
    I figured this ability would get quite a bit of complaints. If I removed the access to Chakra binds and also allowed Psyren's suggestion of essentia being used from Resonance Turquoise would that be more acceptable? Each party member would need to use their own essentia to improve a meld.

    Chakra
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    Except for the inclusion of the heart chakra at 9 this looks good. A theurge isn't usually as good as a single classed character at his schtick and including the heart chakra leaves very little reason to go straight totemist over totemist/ bard/ soulsinger.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Also, the Least slots are coming WAY too late. With the prerequisites, the character is only going to lack one level in Incarnate before he gets them anyways. This, honestly, needs to go in the 2nd level slot. So let's swap it with Communion of the Soul. You may even want to push this back to 1st level and move Songmeld to 2nd
    This leaves 5th level for the Arms/Brow/Shoulder slots, 8th for Throat/Waist, and Heart at the capstone 10th.
    In all honesty I will probably drop the Heart Chakra entirely. And the delayed chakra access was somewhat intentional. Since this class gets more abilities, spells and skill points than a normal Incarnate or Totemist, I figured that they could afford to slow their progression a bit.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    A thought: communion of the soul might be more palatable if you restrict it to a limited number of targets instead of all allies in range, perhaps 1 ally per point of essentia invested.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    "My name is Indigo Mantra. You keeled my father. Prepare to die."

    Sorry, it had to be said.

    Anyways, I still say that doubling your effective Inspire Courage numbers with trivial effort is WAY too powerful an ability, but this is your class. I mean, this is why WoC is banned in most games, right?

    You might limit Communion of Soul to numerical bonuses only. Then you could share skill bonuses and luck bonuses and insight bonuses and deflection bonuses... but you couldn't get the truly sick things like sharing Totem Binds with everyone (Gorillian Arms + Sphinx Claws shared with the team... now EVERYONE is a King of Smack!). Or the Phase Spider Carapace and let the whole party go Ethereal. Blink Shirt for unlimited DimDoor action for the whole party. Flight with the winged sandals. I could go on, but these are the abilities which can truly be game-breaking.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    "My name is Indigo Mantra. You keeled my father. Prepare to die."

    Sorry, it had to be said.
    I laughed at how terrible that joke was. Thank you for that.

    Communion of the Soul
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    A thought: communion of the soul might be more palatable if you restrict it to a limited number of targets instead of all allies in range, perhaps 1 ally per point of essentia invested.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    You might limit Communion of Soul to numerical bonuses only. Then you could share skill bonuses and luck bonuses and insight bonuses and deflection bonuses... but you couldn't get the truly sick things like sharing Totem Binds with everyone (Gorillian Arms + Sphinx Claws shared with the team... now EVERYONE is a King of Smack!). Or the Phase Spider Carapace and let the whole party go Ethereal. Blink Shirt for unlimited DimDoor action for the whole party. Flight with the winged sandals. I could go on, but these are the abilities which can truly be game-breaking.
    I did alter Communion to not include Chakra bind effects and allies must invest their own essentia to gain extra effects.

    Songmeld
    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Anyways, I still say that doubling your effective Inspire Courage numbers with trivial effort is WAY too powerful an ability, but this is your class. I mean, this is why WoC is banned in most games, right?
    Ok, I'll rewrite the ability to just provide extra damage. If it isn't explicitly increasing IC bonuses, it wouldn't stack with WoC or DFI.
    I also changed the Inspire Competence bonus to +2 as opposed to +3.
    Last edited by Waker; 2014-01-04 at 01:28 AM.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Requirements
    Feats:Resonance Turquoise
    Meldshaping:Ability to shape three soulmelds; ability to bind a soulmeld to a chakra.
    Special:Bardic Music ability
    OK, so we need what, Bard 1/meldshaper 2? Pretty easy entry requirements, there. I'd throw on a skill requirement, maybe. (And maybe ask zagan if you can re-post the feat here)

    <chassis>
    10/10 advancement is standard for a theurge. No real comment here, although the lack of a capstone ability makes me sad.

    Class Features
    Bardic Music: Soul singer levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining the soul singerís daily uses of his bardic music abilities (if any) and the value of the bonus granted by inspire courage (if the soul singer has that bardic music ability).
    Fair enough.

    Songmeld: A soul singer does not merely recite poetry or sing a song, they pour their very essence into their art. Starting at level 1, a soul singer may invest essentia into their Bardic Performances. When using this ability, the soul singer must specify which performance they invest their essentia into.
    Given that essentia is a constant resource (ie, you always have X amount of it), and bardic music is doubly limited (X performances of Y duration), how does this work? Is the essence for the day lost when you stop singing? Is it only unavailable while the performance is in effect? How does it interact with Lingering Song? What action does this take?

    To make things less confusing, I suggest a sort of "Incarnate Instrument." It takes... maybe the arms chakra, giving a nice bonus to perform if shaped, and the listed benefit to your music if bound.

    Also, I'd try to cover at least some of the more common alternate songs.

    Communion of the Soul: A soul singer of 2nd level or higher with 10 or more ranks in a Perform skill learns to share the power of incarnum with his allies. As a move action he can start a performance that grants all allies within 30ft that can see and hear him the benefit of a soulmeld that he currently has shaped. Allies do not gain the bonus effects from essentia that the soul singer has invested into the meld. They must invest their own essentia, typically gained from uses of Resonance Turquoise. The soul singer can maintain this song for up to 1 minute per soul singer level.
    At level 8, a soul singer may share the up to two soulmelds with their allies.
    Neat!

    Chakra Binds: Beginning at 3nd level, you can bind your soulmelds to your chakras, granting you new powers based on the soulmeld and the chakra chosen. Binding a soulmeld to a chakra closes the body slot associated with that chakra, so that you cannot also benefit from a magic item worn on the body slot associated with that chakra.
    The number of chakra binds that you can have active at any one time depends on your level. At 3nd level, you can bind a soulmeld to your crown, feet or hands chakras. Beginning at 6th level, you can bind soulmelds to your arm, brow or shoulders chakras. At 9th level, you can bind soulmelds to your arms, brow, or shoulders chakras. At 9th level, you can bind soulmelds to your throat and waist chakras.
    Crown is probably unnecessary, since it's the first one you get-- ie, what you take to get into the class. Other than that... you're getting Throat and Waist two levels early, most likely, but that's not a huge deal... oh, and you've got a typo, marked by the bolding.

    Indigo Mantra: A soul singer can enter into a deep meditative trance with the aid of their songs. Starting at level 4, a soul singer may expend the use of a Bardic Music performance as an immediate action to rearrange some or all of their essentia that is currently not locked.
    Neat ability, pretty low power, but I can see it being useful on rare occasion.

    Conclusion: A solid theurge class, with a few good abilities thrown on top. Looks pretty good to me.

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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    OK, so we need what, Bard 1/meldshaper 2? Pretty easy entry requirements, there. I'd throw on a skill requirement, maybe. (And maybe ask zagan if you can re-post the feat here)
    I considered skill requirements and may still edit them in later, but for now the only skill requirement is on the feat. And I have also edited my second post to include the requisite feat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    10/10 advancement is standard for a theurge. No real comment here, although the lack of a capstone ability makes me sad.
    Don't be sad Grod, when I can think of an appropriate capstone I will put one in. I just haven't heard a good suggestion or had that "Eureka!" moment yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Given that essentia is a constant resource (ie, you always have X amount of it), and bardic music is doubly limited (X performances of Y duration), how does this work? Is the essence for the day lost when you stop singing? Is it only unavailable while the performance is in effect? How does it interact with Lingering Song? What action does this take?
    The soul singer and allies only gain the benefits of essentia invested while the essentia is still there. You can kind of think of a Songmeld as a soulmeld with a duration. So if you start a performance with 2 points invested and then later move 1 to a soulmeld, the song immediately becomes weaker, so Lingering Song wouldn't have any special effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    To make things less confusing, I suggest a sort of "Incarnate Instrument." It takes... maybe the arms chakra, giving a nice bonus to perform if shaped, and the listed benefit to your music if bound.
    I may still take up Shneeky's suggestion of having the Songmeld correspond to body slots, but I still need to think about it a bit more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Also, I'd try to cover at least some of the more common alternate songs.
    It's possible. At the very least I'll consider it if I can get enough people interested in the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Crown is probably unnecessary, since it's the first one you get-- ie, what you take to get into the class. Other than that... you're getting Throat and Waist two levels early, most likely, but that's not a huge deal... oh, and you've got a typo, marked by the bolding.
    Not necessarily. You can enter the class as a Bard/Totemist.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I considered skill requirements and may still edit them in later, but for now the only skill requirement is on the feat. And I have also edited my second post to include the requisite feat.
    Oh, I did not notice that the feat had a skill prereq. That invalidates a lot of my assumptions about how you'd enter the class

    The soul singer and allies only gain the benefits of essentia invested while the essentia is still there. You can kind of think of a Songmeld as a soulmeld with a duration. So if you start a performance with 2 points invested and then later move 1 to a soulmeld, the song immediately becomes weaker, so Lingering Song wouldn't have any special effect.
    You should probably make that clearer, and address what happens to the essence when the song ends.

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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Oh, I did not notice that the feat had a skill prereq. That invalidates a lot of my assumptions about how you'd enter the class
    Its alright. Initially the class was more Bard/Incarnate, but I decided to not exclude the Totemist from entry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    You should probably make that clearer, and address what happens to the essence when the song ends.
    I shall do so now.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Songmeld

    Ok, I'll rewrite the ability to just provide extra damage. If it isn't explicitly increasing IC bonuses, it wouldn't stack with WoC or DFI.
    I also changed the Inspire Competence bonus to +2 as opposed to +3.
    That's not going to change the fact that you are effectively doubling your damage output. And, unfortunately, as long as you reference Inspire Courage (increases damage bonus from Inspire Courage by...), then it will stack with WoC or DFI. To avoid this, you'd have to say something like "This will grant an Insight Bonus to damage" or somesuch, which will actually conflict with other abilities which give Insight bonuses to damage. Make sure it is completely segregated. Which then, of course, obviates the whole point of the synergy and defeats the purpose of the ability.

    WoC I'm not so worried about, most GMs are smart enough to ban that. But what it can do with DFI is just... scary. Particularly if you have a summoner in the group.

    The problem here is that you are giving the only bonus that people care about when using the ability. That's not a nerf. Giving people a bonus on the will saves against fear and charm effects would still have usefulness, but wouldn't be so completely overpoweringly broken. But as long as you are stacking damage bonuses, those bonuses are going to end up getting multiplied.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2014-01-05 at 03:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    That's not going to change the fact that you are effectively doubling your damage output. And, unfortunately, as long as you reference Inspire Courage (increases damage bonus from Inspire Courage by...), then it will stack with WoC or DFI.

    WoC I'm not so worried about, most GMs are smart enough to ban that. But what it can do with DFI is just... scary. Particularly if you have a summoner in the group.
    WoC works fine if you apply it before bonuses from feats, items, and the like. Make a note that Songmeld is added after all other modifiers and you should be OK.

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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    This looks neat. One balance issue- someone could take only 1 level in bard, and take one or two levels in say sorcerer or wizard and then advance the spellcasting of that. The power level will likely then be higher than that with just entering with bardic casting. The difference won't be that large, since one is going to be effectively losing a lot of spellcasting levels that way, but you may want to be aware of it.
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Updated the the table and text to only progress Bard spellcasting.
    I also decided to bite the bullet and axe the hit/damage bonus on IC and instead go the Charm/Fear save. As Shneeky points out, still useful without being ridiculously overpowered.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Midnight Mantra?

    Heck, there's a massive dictionary of color names here. Find a nice one for blue, perhaps?
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    door is a fake exterior wall
    Let's play a game, shall we? Current Game: Soul Void. Updates Mondays, 6PM EST.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Phew, finally got around to adding in the mechanical explanation for the last few abilities. Need to add fluff in as appropriate and may still consider fiddling with the Songmeld ability, but I think the class is otherwise done.

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    G.Cube's Avatar

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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    This. is. AWESOME.

    As a fan of both Bard and Incarnum I have to say I was a bit hysterical when I first read through this. I'm a huge fan of T3 class, they're just the perfect balance of power and fun, and you nailed it with this class. It's flavor, it's functional, and there are a TON of options. In fact, that's my only concern, options. Granted, Bards don't get many spells per day, or all the game altering spells that are on the Wiz/Sorc list, but seeing as Meldshapers already hold their own in the versatility department, and you tacked on new Bardic Music options, I'm a little concerned that advancing casting just tips this clas over the edge in the power department, and even if I'm wrong here (Which is VERY possible, JUST started PEACHing) it seems like a lot of booking keeping needs to be done by the player to make full use of this class.

    All in all, I'm HUGE fan of this man, good work, I hope it was as fun to make for you as it looks like it's going to be fun for me to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarra View Post
    Well, I'm firmly convinced that gelatinous cubes simply hold static in one point and force the world to move around them to their mobility desires.
    Awesome G.Cube avatar by Savannah!

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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Soul Singer (Bard/Incarnum Prestige Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Cube View Post
    This. is. AWESOME.

    As a fan of both Bard and Incarnum I have to say I was a bit hysterical when I first read through this. I'm a huge fan of T3 class, they're just the perfect balance of power and fun, and you nailed it with this class. It's flavor, it's functional, and there are a TON of options. In fact, that's my only concern, options. Granted, Bards don't get many spells per day, or all the game altering spells that are on the Wiz/Sorc list, but seeing as Meldshapers already hold their own in the versatility department, and you tacked on new Bardic Music options, I'm a little concerned that advancing casting just tips this clas over the edge in the power department, and even if I'm wrong here (Which is VERY possible, JUST started PEACHing) it seems like a lot of booking keeping needs to be done by the player to make full use of this class.

    All in all, I'm HUGE fan of this man, good work, I hope it was as fun to make for you as it looks like it's going to be fun for me to play.
    Ah, well thank you for your comment. I haven't had much time to devote to keeping track of this stuff since my work has me swamped lately, but I always appreciate the comments.
    Yes, there is an increase in power because the class progresses both Bardic Casting, Meldshaping and Bardic Music, but there are a few downsides. As it stands, the class doesn't actually grant you the standard Bardic Music abilities, so several of them can't be gain pre-epic. The class also has less skill points and lower saves than the base classes (only one good save) as well as the slight delay in spell/meld progression by the necessity to multiclass. A character taking this class in lieu of another PrC may end up being slightly more powerful, but not by an enormous margin.

    At some point when I find the time, I shall return the favor and comment upon your homebrew.
    If you feel like quoting something that I have said, you have my permission to use it. Unless it makes me look stupid.
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