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    Default Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    This is part of my E10 project aimed at creating a richer and more balanced DnD experience. The classes are meant to be balanced between between Tiers 2-4. A 20th level character ends up as a 10//10 Gestalt.

    Duskblade

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |0th|1st|2nd|3rd

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2]|Arcane Attunement, Armored Mage|3|2|—|—

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Combat Casting|4|3|—|—

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Arcane Channeling|5|4|—|—

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Armored Mage(Heavy Armor), Advanced Learning|6|5|—|—

    5th|+5/+1|+4|+1|+4|Quick Cast 1/day|6|5|2|—

    6th|+6/+2|+5|+2|+5|Spell Power +2, Arcane Channeling (Charge)|7|6|3|—

    7th|+7/+3|+5|+2|+5|Armored Mage(Heavy Shield)|7|6|4|—

    8th|+8/+4|+6|+2|+6|Advanced Learning|8|7|5|—

    9th|+9/+5/+1|+6|+3|+6|Quick Cast 2/day|8|7|5|2

    10th|+10/+6/+2|+7|+3|+7|Arcane Channeling(Full Attack), Spell Power +3|9|8|6|3

    [/table]

    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d10

    Class Skills:
    Climb(Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script(Int), Jump(Str), Knowledge(All) (Int), Listen(Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft(Int), Spot(Wis) and Swim(Str).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Duskblades are proficient with all Simple and martial weapons, as well as all armors and shields (except tower shields).

    Spells: You cast arcane spells, which are drawn from the duskblade spell list on page 98. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time.

    To learn or cast a spell, you must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0-level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against your spell is 10 + the spell level + your Int modifier.

    You can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day.

    Your base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1–3. In addition, you receive bonus spells per day if you have a high Intelligence score (see Table 1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook).

    Spells Known: You begin play knowing two 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells, chosen from the duskblade spell list. You also know one additional 0-level spell for each point of Intelligence bonus.

    Each time you gain a new class level, you learn one additional spell of any level you can cast, chosen from the duskblade spell list.

    Upon reaching 5th level, and at every subsequent odd-numbered level, you can choose to learn a new spell in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose access to the old spell in exchange for gaining the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level spell you can cast. For instance, upon reaching 9th level, you could trade in a single 1st-level spell (two levels below the highest-level spell you can cast, which is 3rd) for a different 1st-level spell. You can swap only a single spell at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that you gain new spells known for the level.

    You need not prepare spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your spells per day for that spell level.

    Arcane Attunement (Sp): You add dancing lights, detect magic, flare, ghost sound, and read magic to your list of spells known.

    Armored Mage (Ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A duskblade’s limited focus and specialized training, however, allows you to avoid arcane spell failure so long as you stick to light armor, medium armor, and light shields. This training does not extend to heavy armor, nor to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

    At 4th level, you learn to use heavy armor with no chance of arcane spell failure.

    At 7th level, you learn to use a heavy shield with no chance of arcane spell failure.

    Combat Casting: At 2nd level, you gain Combat Casting as a bonus feat.

    Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, you can use a standard action to cast any touch spell you know and deliver the spell through your weapon with a melee or ranged attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.

    At 6th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a charge action, and the spell affects the first target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.

    At 10th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee or ranged combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.

    Advanced Learning: At 4rd and 8th level a Duskblade can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation, with a few restrictions. The spell must be a wizard spell and for the purposes of selecting this spell the Duskblade counts as a Wizard of 1/2 his level for determining what level of spell the Duskblade can choose. For instance, an 8th level Duskblade counts as a 4th level Wizard and can choose a 2nd level spell from any school to learn as part of his Advanced Learning.

    Quick Cast: Beginning at 5th level, you can cast one spell each day as a swift action, so long as the casting time of the spell is 1 standard action or less.

    You can use this ability twice per day at 9th level.

    Spell Power (Ex): Starting at 6th level, you can more easily overcome the spell resistance of any opponent you successfully injure with a melee attack. If you have injured an opponent with a melee attack, you gain a +2 bonus on your caster level check to overcome spell resistance for the remainder of the encounter. This bonus increases to +3 at 10th level.

    ACF's
    Last edited by Zman; 2014-01-12 at 11:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Change Log

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Why didn't you just make one big thread so it didn't flood the front page?
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by NosferatuZodd View Post
    Why didn't you just make one big thread so it didn't flood the front page?
    Because I'd rather have a thread per class with easy formatting, change log and and specific feedback instead of having them buried in one large thread.

    I also didn't expect to have time to hammer through so many today.

    Anything constructive?

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    Because I'd rather have a thread per class with easy formatting, change log and and specific feedback instead of having them buried in one large thread.

    I also didn't expect to have time to hammer through so many today.

    Anything constructive?
    Spoilers exist so you can easily organize such things, and making one large thread with all the material would take more time then separately making a bunch of threads?

    Right.
    Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by NosferatuZodd View Post
    Spoilers exist so you can easily organize such things, and making one large thread with all the material would take more time then separately making a bunch of threads?

    Right.
    Actually, no. I prefer linking threads as it keeps my thoughts collected. It also makes it easier for someone to comment on a particular class without having to look at an entire thread full of classes. And if you'd stop making unproductive comments the threads would get buried quickly and wouldn't clutter the front page.

    Right?

    So, please stop posting unhelpful comments, or please give them a PEACH and be productive. Stop talking as if you are a Mod. If a real Mod comes and tells me to group my classes, I would.

    The only problem is how fast I'm converting my full class fixes to E10s, not that there is a thread for each class.

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Can you explain the mindset behind your choice of E10 instead of E6? Do you feel that you can better balance the game in that frame or...?

    Also, I agree with Zodd that you've kind of cluttered up the forum with this project. If you wanted separate threads, why didn't you just concentrate on one class at a time?

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanuki Tales View Post
    Can you explain the mindset behind your choice of E10 instead of E6? Do you feel that you can better balance the game in that frame or...?

    Also, I agree with Zodd that you've kind of cluttered up the forum with this project. If you wanted separate threads, why didn't you just concentrate on one class at a time?
    My choice of E10 was multifaceted. I felt the breaking point for magic was 5th level spells. Naturally, that makes E8 the natural breaking point, but originally my class fixes eliminated 9th level spells and stretched 5th level spells to 11th level. By choosing E10 I could keep Magic below my imagined breaking point while offering enough room for vertical growth. My E10 alternates a Primary class and Gestalt class allowing further horizontal growth, slowing overall power growth, and creating more varied characters while maintaining 20 points of advancement.


    In all reality, I've verged one thread every ~ 2hrs. Due to the holiday posting has been very slow exaggerating how many threads I've made.

    I've already created my 20 level base classes for each, it wasn't difficult or time consuming to create my E10 classes.

    Either way, I only have left to do.
    Last edited by Zman; 2014-01-01 at 08:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Zman, I liked your fixes before but I like them even more in E10 versions. I think I'll use them in my next campaing.

    For now I have a question: both duskblades and rangers have a third iterative attack before 10th level... why is that?
    bock!

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty_Chicken View Post
    Zman, I liked your fixes before but I like them even more in E10 versions. I think I'll use them in my next campaing.

    For now I have a question: both duskblades and rangers have a third iterative attack before 10th level... why is that?
    Actually, all of my E10 classes gain Iteratives at +5/1 and +9/5/1. I felt it gave more incentive for full BAB classes and ends up giving even Poor BAB classes an iterative at 10th level.


    Would you be using my E10 Variant with build in Gestalt, Or just my stand alone classes? Also, it's meant to fit in with my Overhaul, I'd appreciate and comments, critiques, or concerns you'd have.

    Also, I've started work on a Prestige class project for my E10. Instead of classes, you "buy" Prestige classes by meeting the prerequisites, paying XP, and forever taking an XP penalty.

    Thanks for commenting, it's great to know some people may be putting my classes to good use. I'd appreciate all feedback. I'm currently running a game using my E10 and Overhaul, it's linked in my Sig.

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Oops, I haven't noticed that. It's an interesting idea indeed.

    I think Gestalt is too much for my group. Presenting them the fixed classes would be information enough. Though I might try a "retroactive Gestalt" after they're used to the new stuff.

    About the Overhaul rules:

    I understand the logic behind the point buy numbers; but IMHO the usual points are harsh enough, except for primary spellcasters. In this case, I just think all casters should have 2 casting abilities. That's how I intent to use your E10 classes, btw. The ability increases are smart.

    I'm concerned less Wound points makes complete sense, but it's too harsh on Small PCs, without giving them anything in return. I agree with the rest of the Wound system, but I don't think 18-20 weapons have a too small damage output. After all, they deal critical damage more often; they have a greater chance of fatiguing or stunning a foe.

    I think Defense + armor as DR work fine together. Also, the way you did it is a "Linear Warrior" partial fix in itself. I'm only worried 3/4 BAB classes as monks, bards and rogues might fall behind.


    Skills: definitively better than RAW. But I like my own system better, hehe. It has the same objectives but IMHO it solves them better.

    Spellcasting fix: I like your semi-Spell Points approach because it allows for some options SPs also allow. Just a question, the non-lethal/vitality damage can be normally healead by magic? Because if it can, it only the number of spells a caster will cast in a single encounter... is that the idea? I'm trying to figure a SP system that hinder caster who go nova, but maybe your idea is simpler.

    The Sleep spell is still save or be coup de grace'd.


    Personally I don't like XP penalties. They're hard to track and weird and old-schoolish, in a bad sense. I don't see a need for that in your system, were character will eventually sum 20 levels anyway. But maybe it's an option for non-gestalt E6 and E10. I liked how you divided the abilities per "tier", but I think having each tier as a set of feats would be simpler (for example, 4 feats would buy Arcane archer Tier 1).
    bock!

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty_Chicken View Post
    Oops, I haven't noticed that. It's an interesting idea indeed.

    I thought every five BAB was arbitrary and more suited to twenty level play.

    I think Gestalt is too much for my group. Presenting them the fixed classes would be information enough. Though I might try a "retroactive Gestalt" after they're used to the new stuff.

    You can alternatively gain levels like this

    10//20
    9//19
    8//18
    7//17
    6//16
    5//15
    4//14
    3//13
    2//12
    1//11

    Basically gain all ten, then add your Gestalt levels as further character development. Would work very well.



    About the Overhaul rules:

    Thanks for looking at it. If you have further suggestions, feel free to post them in that thread, or the E10 Variant thread.

    I understand the logic behind the point buy numbers; but IMHO the usual points are harsh enough, except for primary spellcasters. In this case, I just think all casters should have 2 casting abilities. That's how I intent to use your E10 classes, btw. The ability increases are smart.

    Actually, it's much kinder to MAD, allowing 14/14/14/14/10/10 whereas it's more costly to optimize SAD 18/14/8/8/8/8 is a tough pill to swallow for a caster. Most will see their best stat pre racial mod be only a 16.

    I'm concerned less Wound points makes complete sense, but it's too harsh on Small PCs, without giving them anything in return. I agree with the rest of the Wound system, but I don't think 18-20 weapons have a too small damage output. After all, they deal critical damage more often; they have a greater chance of fatiguing or stunning a foe.

    True, it makes sense, and is more important for enemies, goblins with 12 WP is crazy. If you don't like, just don't enforce it for PCs.

    In wound/Vitality Criticals aren't the same. The ranges are different, 18-20 becomes. The same as 19-20 and even just 20. Where as those that had 3x and 4x instead become 19-20 and 18-20. It's tougher to Crit, but more dangerous when you do.


    I think Defense + armor as DR work fine together. Also, the way you did it is a "Linear Warrior" partial fix in itself. I'm only worried 3/4 BAB classes as monks, bards and rogues might fall behind.

    In E10 it's not a huge difference, in 20 level play it's more significant. High level play in General is very troublesome and difficult to balance. I realized I don't like high Level play and shenanigans, hence my E10 project. Yep, Linear Warriors really really suffered beyond low to mid levels.

    Skills: definitively better than RAW. But I like my own system better, hehe. It has the same objectives but IMHO it solves them better.

    I commented on your Skill Fix. I opted for a simple fix for the current system, a full rewrite was beyond what I was looking to do. I like bell curves, and if I ever rewrote Skills completely, it would be a 2d10 system.

    Spellcasting fix: I like your semi-Spell Points approach because it allows for some options SPs also allow. Just a question, the non-lethal/vitality damage can be normally healead by magic? Because if it can, it only the number of spells a caster will cast in a single encounter... is that the idea? I'm trying to figure a SP system that hinder caster who go nova, but maybe your idea is simpler.

    The Sleep spell is still save or be coup de grace'd.

    Not really spell Points, more like cumulative Fatigue from casting. Especially at low levels Caster have to be careful, having only 10 VP and casting a 2nd level spell is the same as taking 2 Damage. Costly and brings some risk. VP can be healed normally, it's in the Wound/Vitality Point SRD. WPs are tough to heal, VP are easy and regenerate fairly quickly. The system makes much more sense to me and in use makes combats more interesting.

    Sleep is rough, but ideally the caster won't be tossing out DC15/16 Sleeps, it'll be DC14. And the ability to wake up should help. Couple it with the rest of the Fixes it should be enough. Has to be asleep for 2 rounds for the Full around action Coup De Grace.


    Personally I don't like XP penalties. They're hard to track and weird and old-schoolish, in a bad sense. I don't see a need for that in your system, were character will eventually sum 20 levels anyway. But maybe it's an option for non-gestalt E6 and E10. I liked how you divided the abilities per "tier", but I think having each tier as a set of feats would be simpler (for example, 4 feats would buy Arcane archer Tier 1).
    I don't see XP penalties as that hard to track, coupled with Unearthed Arcannas XP chart and Rewards, it's really pretty simple and a very Organic way of dealing with bonuses and penalties. LA is a much much worse system IMO, whereas these penalties offer a smoother more organic alternative.
    Last edited by Zman; 2014-01-12 at 06:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    It looks pretty good. A few thoughts:
    • Why no Jump? Not that it's a good skill or anything, but it does seem to be missing from the standard warrior skill list here.
    • I'd encourage you to try framing the Duskblade as a fixed-list caster in the vein of the Warmage. His list is small and limited enough that I don't think having to choose spells known really adds much.
    • Maybe try adding a few buff and utility spells to his list? He tends to suffer in terms of non-combat versatility.
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    Default Re: Zman's E10 Duskblade(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It looks pretty good. A few thoughts:
    • Why no Jump? Not that it's a good skill or anything, but it does seem to be missing from the standard warrior skill list here.
    • I'd encourage you to try framing the Duskblade as a fixed-list caster in the vein of the Warmage. His list is small and limited enough that I don't think having to choose spells known really adds much.
    • Maybe try adding a few buff and utility spells to his list? He tends to suffer in terms of non-combat versatility.
    Great suggestions Grod.

    Jump? I had no idea it wasn't in there. It was a simple error in translating the class over. Thanks.

    Fixed List Caster? I know you are a fan of those! Definite Possibility, the list is relatively tiny. Most Duskblades were selecting the same couple of spells anyways, could open up more potential. I'm definitely going to think on that, but see little harm in granting it to them. I'd almost rather give them an additional Advanced Learning at 10th level.

    I did give it a couple of Advanced Learning Spells which opens up quite a few low level options, but I certainly understand your point. If a character wants to pick up more combat oriented spells, no problem, but most characters will be better served using those slots for utility anyways.

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