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    Default How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    I am in a pickle and I need your help Playground. A pickle 7 billion Constructs strong.

    Game is 3.5 plus Conan d20, high power Faerun, 'gods and dragons are special and awesome' game. Game is pretty high politics too, play styles and skill levels are all over the map and multiple DMs is happening.
    Pretty much anything third party goes except I am disallowed Gate, Wish, Genesis, and Miracle just because. And no Homebrew, though amped up Custom Magic Item Rules are allowed, with permission.

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    Recently, I caused a cheese laden series of events to transpire that netted my level 11 (15 now) Gestalt Artificer/Cleric/Techsmith almost seven billion Intelligent Constructs under his direct control. To my character they are people, not slaves. He is freeing all of them except for those he can command with Leadership over a period of a few weeks. Their attitude will remain at least Friendly, though it's Fanatic now.

    The anticlimactic battle is over, the Faerunian NPC swooped in to save the game from me trivializing the party by trivializing them herself and all is well.
    (No seriously, that the NPC did the deed herself made everything okay. No, I don't understand it, I'm just gonna roll with it. I did agree to play in someone else's 20+ yr old Faerun game after all.)

    Except that now my Construct forces are occupying the uppermost layer of the Underdark beneath an entire country, and I'm not really sure how the numbers of dudes I'm wielding really compare to the usual population of said Upperdark, the country, or even a normal Faerunian city/army.

    My original waste cleanup migration plan was to walk each and every one of them trough a repeating Incarnate Construct trap and set them free in their own built-overnight Dragonmech meets Tippyverse city. But a dream meeting with my character's god explained that that was a terrible idea because suddenly making that many worshipers (soulless Constructs apparently don't count) would bring the wrath of pantheons down upon my character, his new race's, and his god's, heads.

    My current plan is to hold position until the whole lot of them can be transported to some wasteland or another and then have them build themselves a Dragonmech meets Tippyverse city for themselves from scratch.

    But I really need some help comprehending how 7 billion Intelligent Constructs compares to a normal Faerunian city. A normal Army. A normal population of a wealthy or at least well to do nation? The normal monster population of a section of the Upperdark the size of Aglarond?

    Please help me Playground. I humbly beseech you to grace me with your insights and queries.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Granted Faerun is huge. Granted it's only one of several continents on the planet. Granted races like orcs, goblins, and kobolds all likely outbreed humans even at their irl peak reproduction rates.

    All that said, I'd be flabbergasted if Faerun has more than a couple billion souls on it. In fact, I'm not sure that the whole of Aber-Toril has even a couple billion souls. Real world population densities are rarely mimicked in most of the faux medieval settings, and while there may be a few exceptions in FR, I think most of their cities probably top out at under a couple million. Moreover, vast expanses of land are extremely sparsely inhabited.

    Though, once we chuck in the Underdark and the aquatic races (things that the real world lacks), we may be coming up on a couple billion. But, remember, a billion is a thousand million. That's a crazy large number of people by DMG standards.

    You really have to talk to your DM, as it seems like this version of FR has diverged significantly from canon.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    A magical Anti-population Plague.
    Tarvek needs to die in a fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    A magical Anti-population Plague.
    I think my DM would love it if you could elaborate. Extensively.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
    ...while there may be a few exceptions in FR, I think most of their cities probably top out at under a couple million.
    In the 3.0 FRCS, the largest city in Faerūn is Waterdeep, with 1.3 million. It's considered the largest city in the known world (not including Kara-Tur) and most others don't come close. Calimport is just under two hundred thousand, Athkatla is less than 120K, Neverwinter is barely twenty-three thousand.

    As for the continent as a whole, the FRCS (p. 98) gives a population of 68 million, although it's not specified whether these are just "civilized" humanoids or if the total includes goblinoids, lizardfolk, and other "savage" races. The safe assumption is that the 68 million are humans and their allies, whose numbers are probably substantially greater owing to their agriculture and trade.

    And as Phelix points out, the Underdark is a whole other world, although given the very limited resources--essentially a detritus-based ecosystem on a grand scale--it's unlikely to support anything close to the surface population.

    Originally Posted by unseenmage
    My current plan is to hold position until the whole lot of them can be transported to some wasteland or another....
    Well, the desert of Anauroch might be a convenient place for a city, since it's virtually uninhabited. Seven billion constructs would occupy a tremendous amount of space, though, even if they did nothing but stand shoulder-to-shoulder all day.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Well, the desert of Anauroch might be a convenient place for a city, since it's virtually uninhabited. Seven billion constructs would occupy a tremendous amount of space, though, even if they did nothing but stand shoulder-to-shoulder all day.
    You can fit the entire human population of Earth in a space the size of Rhode Island.

    That's if you squeeze, though.

    With each construct taking up a 5'x5' square? That's 2,25 m^2, so seven billion constructs brings that up to 15,75 billion m^2. Or 15750 km^2, to simplify it.

    That's an area smaller than Swaziland. Or slightly bigger than half of Belgium, if that means anything to you.

    That's if they're all standing in their own squares, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Well, the desert of Anauroch might be a convenient place for a city, since it's virtually uninhabited.
    Althought the phaerimm would then try to spring....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    A magical Anti-population Plague.


    Most of the Underdark that has substantial population, though, uses magic extensively to support itself. Drow cities typically have kobold/goblin slave holdings that outnumber actual drow almost 100-to-1, from what I recall. The Deep Imaskari have smuggled their entire, highly magical civilization down there, and only recently reemerged from their sealed world (though their numbers aren't very big either).

    I'd imagine that Menzoberranzan probably has close to a million residents, due to it's burgeoning slave population (despite the rate at which they are constantly marching them off into comically unnecessary slaughter). But everything else is likely much smaller. The whole place probably doesn't meet 5 million or so, and much of that would only be marginally civilized, and potentially non-humanoid as well.

    Anyway, I'd advise the possibility of Plane of Shadow relocation (at least I think that is part of the FR cosmology, honestly not sure). Constructs should be largely immune to much of the scary that goes on there, between illusion and fear immunity, and no fear from the predatory shadows. This, of course, depends on the nature of your constructs. Likely competition would be any dark creatures or gloamings, but they would likely prefer to have some decent and stable centers of civilization.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Ok the first part of the plan is you need to be able to Iron Heart Surge. Get an item of IHS or retrain your feats until you've got it through martial study.

    Ok, now that you can IHS use it to change your characters opinion manually to keeping these 7 billion constructs under your command. Now that your character is no longer suffering from the condition of "unwilling to use rad robot servants" you're ready for step three.

    Step three look up old threads on nanobots. Basically you can have your 7 billion followers all use aid another actions on you to give you plus 14 billion on basically whatever you want.

    Enjoy being the new King Faerun (I'm not sure what the over all head honcho of that setting should be called).
    Last edited by (Un)Inspired; 2014-01-02 at 11:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Enjoy being the new King Faerun (I'm not sure what the over all head honcho of that setting should be called).
    I believe the official title is known as the King of the Green Wood.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    7 billion, non-sentient Constructs? And he doesn't want them to be slaves, and not allowed to give them all Sentience?

    Well, if they are all concentrated in a small area, as others have pointed out, they span a small country just in their own personal volume. Moving that many bodies would take time. Lots of time, especially if they all must travel by foot through the caves of the Underdark to the surface. Depending on the number of entrances they can leave from, it could take years just to get them all out of the Underdark to begin with. And then the time it take to travel towards where you decide to take them.

    As far as against armies, you basically have the entire population of our modern day Earth as completely loyal and subservient army that is considerably tougher than the typical Humanoid. Even in Faerun, where Epic Characters abound, you can topple any force. You have enough bodies to force your way through anything.

    My Suggestion? Offer to the people of Faerun the wonders of 'Upgrading' themselves to a higher state of being. Delete any who deny you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    7 billion, non-sentient Constructs? And he doesn't want them to be slaves, and not allowed to give them all Sentience?

    Well, if they are all concentrated in a small area, as others have pointed out, they span a small country just in their own personal volume. Moving that many bodies would take time. Lots of time, especially if they all must travel by foot through the caves of the Underdark to the surface. Depending on the number of entrances they can leave from, it could take years just to get them all out of the Underdark to begin with. And then the time it take to travel towards where you decide to take them.

    As far as against armies, you basically have the entire population of our modern day Earth as completely loyal and subservient army that is considerably tougher than the typical Humanoid. Even in Faerun, where Epic Characters abound, you can topple any force. You have enough bodies to force your way through anything.

    My Suggestion? Offer to the people of Faerun the wonders of 'Upgrading' themselves to a higher state of being. Delete any who deny you.
    They are in fact sentient. And 66,816,000,000 of them are technically Diminutive size. The rest fly. We've been describing them as a wave of Constructs flowing through the tunnels.

    Gave them all (most of them qualify) the Jack of All Trades feat for mundane Crafting shenanigans. Now I'm wondering if that was too much cheese as well. :(

    I didn't mean to powergame, the DM approved everything and he told me I would be up against an epic caster/manifester. I didn't expect to win so thoroughly.

    Anticlimax was anticlimactic when the DM didn't grok caster contingency plans. And I'd even schooled him in them via making sure he knew about my own. :(

    Ideas on how to retcon that my 400 Spellclock circles made fewer Constructs?

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    Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu
    I'd imagine that Menzoberranzan probably has close to a million residents, due to it's burgeoning slave population....
    According to the pesky FRCS (p. 212), Menzoberranzan has a grand total of 32,000 residents. "The city's population is one-third drow, the rest being humanoid slaves."

    This is 3.0, however, so no telling if there have been changes since then.

    Originally Posted by unseenmage
    They are in fact sentient. And 66,816,000,000 of them are technically Diminutive size. The rest fly. We've been describing them as a wave of Constructs flowing through the tunnels.
    Cool image. But tricky game issue.

    When you say, "66,816,000,000," do you actually mean 6,816,000,000? Because if not, we're looking at seventy billion constructs rather than seven billion.

    Either way, congratulations. The Underdark is now a Borg collective. Well done, that man.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Either way, congratulations. The Underdark is now a Borg collective. Well done, that man.
    Honestly, it's about time.
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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    My Faerun is extremely rusty, but a quick silly idea and some research.

    Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting says that the moon is about 20,000 miles away. That's about 106 million feet. Diminutive humanoids are at least 6 inches tall. You have enough dudes to make a ladder to the moon thirty-two times over and you would still have roughly a third of a ladder left.
    "Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
    ---
    "Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Seriously. That's kinda... excessive. 7 billion. About the population of earth. I dunno.

    Find a demon. Get each and every one to sell their souls to the demon and give you 3 wishes each. Wish every wish gave +1 to Intelligence. Know EVERYTHING.

    Scower the planet of all life and collect the parts? Build a giant organic-construct collective? Build a palace of flesh and stone?

    Have each one pray to you declaring you a god. Eat Ao.

    Invade Hell. Start taking it one plane at a time. Ride about on a cloud of constructs. Terriform the plane making it into a theme park.

    Restart the Modron race in Mechanus. Have yourself become Mordon Prime.
    Last edited by Captnq; 2014-01-03 at 01:20 AM.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting says that the moon is about 20,000 miles away. That's about 106 million feet. Diminutive humanoids are at least 6 inches tall. You have enough dudes to make a ladder to the moon thirty-two times over and you would still have roughly a third of a ladder left.
    Well there's an idea. Move to the moon. That would actually be pretty cool. Though I'm betting Selune or whomever might not be terribly pleased.

    Alternatively, fly very high up in the air, get a ruling on orbital gravitational forces, and weld together enough sentient constructs to create a sentient satellite country. Part space station, part floating city, 100% total win.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    You are so freaking lucky I'm not your DM. I'd have let you incarnate all of them and then turned the game into Malthus: The Starvation.

    Anyway. What are their stats? What do they want? Are you/they willing to sacrifice some of them for a homeland? Sure, the Phaerimm might get ticked if you occupy Anauroch, but I'm pretty sure even they couldn't take on 7 billion robots.
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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    When you say, "66,816,000,000," do you actually mean 6,816,000,000? Because if not, we're looking at seventy billion constructs rather than seven billion.

    Either way, congratulations. The Underdark is now a Borg collective. Well done, that man.
    Honestly? I'm not sure. We've been failing at the math a bit.

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    Buying a Magic Item takes one Gather Info check which takes 1d4+1 hrs. (MIC)

    400 soldiers hired to buy one set of Spellclocks apiece from everywhere via Greater Teleport and Greater Plane Shift. The soldiers are also given access to Guidance of the Avatar and Transference to make sure the job can get done.

    Awaken Sand (Sa) on Shapesand (Sa), Create Crawling Claw (MC:MoF), Minor Servitor (SS). With circles of Spellclocks True Creation-ing winged Obdurium (SBG) staues hit with Hardening, Augment Objects (SBG), Matter Manipulation, and that other hardness improving spell from Dragon. As well as Shrink Item.
    (Awaken Sand and Create Crawling Claw make real un-Dispel-able constructs)

    All of them with the War Spell (D309) spell template so 25/CL get made for every one that would have been made. The tricky bit is that Create Crawling Claw makes many creatures at once (True Creation again being used to make severed Effigy hands).

    I have two ten-day months the first two days of which are assumed to be used up setting up the process. This leaves me with 58 twenty-four hour days of these Spellclocks going off every hour.

    The original plan was to have each new creature repeat the process but after we realized just how big the numbers could be we restricted it to just the first iteration. If our calculations were correct the number with additional iterations is well and truly unreal.
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2014-01-03 at 12:44 PM.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Wait. I thought awaken sand made an ooze. *checks book* I stand corrected.

    Well, the only thing I would point out about the plan is that some people consider that the awaken line confers the equivalent of a soul on things that used to be objects, such as awakened trees (which are also statted as animated objects). They are now sentient creatures with free will, and as such are targets for soul-affecting things like resurrection and so forth. At least that's how I've always ruled.

    But maybe I was wrong. I seem to recall the awaken line having fluff indicating that the creature is granted a soul, but specifically the sand is still a construct, and so might be considered without a soul.

    Honestly, I'd go with the orbital space station. Or ask the DM about the availability of Spelljammer options (launch a flying vessel full of your constructs into space).

    Smokey confinement nesting a la Emperor Tippy seems to indicate that you could, with enough resources, move the entire population through any numbers-restricted movement option by simply sealing the population inside a nested series of containers that are all smokey confinement'd. I think that's in Complete Mage. Would take some time, obviously, to set that up, but that opens up options to move pretty much anywhere via the normal set of magical transport options.

    Another place to live might be the Great Glacier in the very far north. I think it's a pretty barren place, and I think the area of ice extends beyond it toward the pole of Aber-Toril.
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Oh, c'mon...

    Orcus killed all the modrons. I loved those quirky cubes and spheres. Go on. Go to mechanus and ask the inevitables to help. The rememaining modrons will surely help with the transformations.
    Last edited by Captnq; 2014-01-03 at 01:40 PM.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Okay, I think I've hit on an idea that will knock my numbers down to a more managable amount without invalidating our last in-game session.

    Either I undo the War Spell angle, maybe replacing it with Twin Repeat metamagic versions of the spells so as to still have 'too many constructs' without having 'TOO MANY CONSTRUCTS'.

    - or -

    I could have the Spellclocks only activate once per day. This is adjustible too by having the original 400 hirelings buy more than one set of Spellclocks too.



    But I'm unsure which of these paths would result in the desired millions instead of multiple billions. As this is for a real actual game I would prefer to have the numbers to found a metropolis rather than have enough dudes to build a ladder to the moon y'know?
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2014-01-04 at 03:22 AM.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Build the metropolis itself out of the 6.99 billion you don't need.
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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Send a letter to each major temple in Faerun:

    "Due to a clerical error, I have created an army of 7 billion sentient constructs. They do not currently have a home. When they get one, they will likely build a temple in the center of it. Given the current population of Toril, an additional 7 billion worshippers will mean that the god that temple is dedicated to will "win" whatever games you play amongst yourselves. I need a home for my constructs. You need worshippers. Thus I have sent a copy of this proposal to all the major faiths of Faerun. You have one month to propose me a deal, and from those proposals I will select a 'winner' who best meets the needs of my constructs. Any action that threatens or harms me or the constructs forfeits your bid, not to mention will anger the 'winner'. I await your correspondence at your earliest convenience."

    Grab a bag of popcorn, hilarities ensue.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    ^This. This is awesome

    "and that's the story of how all the churches ended up killing each other, thus ushering in the glorious construct revolution."
    "I for one welcome our new robot overlords"
    Last edited by Dming For Noobs; 2014-01-04 at 10:02 AM.


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    Now all you need is a DM with a heart composed of matter so dark that light runs in fear of him, and you're set!

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Have them worship Lady of Pain

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    solve your magical population explosion with a magical population explosion...meaning the construct population explodes...from magic.

    alternatively if you want to be morally correct explain the situation to the constructs, point out that should they take a specific faith it would likely start a gigantic world spanning war and while they would probably win due to sheer numbers it's still kind of a bad move. with luck they would then either avoid any possible confrontation, continue creating more of themselves in whatever robotic utopia they make until they have enough to crush the rest of the world and make the problem irrelevant, or take roles as a worldwide mediator that can stay impartial due to its overwhelming power and distance.

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    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    What is your character's alignment?

    One of the above posters suggested this half-jokingly, but I would really do it: invade another plane.

    If you are good, go march down through the Abyss, killing everything you see. It will literally make the multiverse a better place. Alternatively, if your DM rolls with a relatively Christian view, then the souls of dead people are trapped in the Hells being tortured. They weren't good people, true, but they were still people and they don't deserve an eternity of torment. March into hell, kill all the demons, and set up humane jails for the souls of the evil dead. (Do not cut off your hand, tape a chainsaw to it, and start talking about your boomstick.)

    If you are evil, do the same thing but for the...oh hell, it's not called the Seven Heavens anymore is it? (He said, dating himself.) What's the new name? Elysium? Something like that. It would make the multiverse a more evil place.


    Plus, it's one of the few ways that your DM could hope to find even moderately level-appropriate encounters for you now. Also, campaigns about leading invasions have lots of room for awesome.
    I write professionally. My books are on Amazon and I have a Patreon where I give away everything I write while it's in progress.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    Have them worship Lady of Pain
    Need to get them to Sigil first. Somehow I think that portal will be closed pretty quickly. If he persists he might just find a portal opening up next time he goes to the toilet, and his body could very well be found flayed and spread across great parts of Sigil, a warning to all who try to annoy the LoP.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglejarl View Post
    What is your character's alignment?

    One of the above posters suggested this half-jokingly, but I would really do it: invade another plane.

    If you are good, go march down through the Abyss, killing everything you see. It will literally make the multiverse a better place. Alternatively, if your DM rolls with a relatively Christian view, then the souls of dead people are trapped in the Hells being tortured. They weren't good people, true, but they were still people and they don't deserve an eternity of torment. March into hell, kill all the demons, and set up humane jails for the souls of the evil dead. (Do not cut off your hand, tape a chainsaw to it, and start talking about your boomstick.)

    If you are evil, do the same thing but for the...oh hell, it's not called the Seven Heavens anymore is it? (He said, dating himself.) What's the new name? Elysium? Something like that. It would make the multiverse a more evil place.


    Plus, it's one of the few ways that your DM could hope to find even moderately level-appropriate encounters for you now. Also, campaigns about leading invasions have lots of room for awesome.
    Both the Abyss and Baator have NI populations of Fiends. You'd just be wasting the constructs.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: How to Handle a Magical Population Explosion?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWR View Post
    Need to get them to Sigil first.
    Why? Most dieties aren't o the same plane as their worshippers.

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