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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    Now that IS interesting! I hope the twist is well written (though by your words it's probably not) It's nice to know, I'm currently in my second module.
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    Well, the players find her shriveled up, naked body almost literally stuffed into a fridge, at negative hit points but magically kept alive by Minagho. And if the lack of dignity isn't bad enough, she doesn't have anything to do or say if the players manage to save her: She just heads back to Nerosyan to retire from adventuring, unless a PC wants to take her as a cohort. What should be this big epic moment "Wow, we're finally meeting this super awesome epic hero of the crusades we've heard so much about!" is actually sort of one-note and uncomfortable for everyone involved. At the very least, I'd put some clothes on her, yeesh!

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Nov 2007

    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Have there be a series of spiritual trials designed to see if he is worthy. This should include one or more secret tests of character.

    Now the player will likely going know whats happening as I assume he'd already be familiar with this trope. But from an in-game perspective it makes the scene worthy.

    Example:
    The player has to run a gauntlet alone at sunset they must reach the end before the last rays of the sun disappear outside.(double points if it has to be on the solstice). If he fails to reach the end in time the portal seals.
    *It has to be a portal or the PC's will just figure they can break down the door*.

    Along the way he finds an injured man someone who took shelter in the cavern during a storm and got lost. His leg is infected with some flesh eating mold. Natural sunlight will destroy the mold and save his life however of the player stops to carry him out of the cavern he'll fail to reach the portal before it closes for another year. If he proceeds onward the man will die before sunrise and he fails the test.

    NOW to really pull a fast one on the player you could have him apparently fail the test by saving the injured man but some adventure later the sword will appear to him when he needs it. Say there fighting a creature whose regeneration/DR the sword would overcome.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    The loot this campaign is insane. End of book 2 our group ended up well geared. Pious armor for our paladin, +3 spiked full plate for the fighter, blessed book for the wizard, a lot of stuff to fill out defenses. We also ended up with 91k to split up. The campaign uses downtime mechanic. Rebuilding the town becomes a responsibility so if the players invest in the town then it seems less like over abundance of loot. If you having read down time you should its in depth. But once u see typically he scheme that the players give up some upfront loot. It surprised us completely cause we thought we where going to keep the fat loot.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Radiance is enchanted such that it may only be drawn by a worthy paladin and, in the right hands, is anathema to demonkind. Why is the sword in a demon's possession, then? It was put there by the paladin, of course.

    Long, long ago, the original owner of Radiance fought against the Demon Lord and was struck down. With his last breath, he sheathed the sword in the chest of the Demon Lord, dealing a debilitating, but non-fatal wound. No demon or other evil soul could draw the blade from its resting place in the Demon Lord's heart, leaving the foul beast with an unhealing wound and an eternal reminder of his inevitable downfall. When the party fights the demon, the paladin can draw the sword out, having been deemed worthy as a result of fighting to avenge Radiance's former owner.

  5. - Top - End - #35

    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    This is cool and would be great in a movie but what if the party has healing magic? I tried to run a scene a few years ago with an npc giving the players advice with his dying words and those clever buggers just cast cure spells and restoration all over him. He was just kind of awkwardly alive.

    I was forced to give the party non cryptic advice and have the npc shuffle away.

    What if the party manages to save or god for it raise dead this paladin? He'll probably want to hold into his sword.
    You have him die before they can cast anything, or claim his damage can not be healed by magic (vile damage works that way, iirc as few people have hallow/consecrate running all the time).

    Example:

    Player with healing power 1: I go to heal him.
    DM: As you reach out to touch him, the Paladin grabs you by the collar, pulling you in close. As you struggle to maintain your concentration he gasps into your ear: "Take my sword Radiance....find the others....save....them......" and speaks no more. As you gaze into his eyes, you realize the icy grasp of death has taken hold and no healing can save him from death now.

    Essentially, no matter what the players say or do, the DM is capable of subverting their intentions to follow the plot.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    danzibr's Avatar

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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Just remember if you guys have too much fun she loses all her paladin powers.
    She's a Cleric with some Paladin flavor. I think we're safe.
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    A comment on tiers, by Prime32
    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    As a DM, I deal with character death by cheering and giving a fist pump, or maybe a V-for-victory sign. I would also pat myself on the back, but I can't really reach around like that.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
    Troll in the Playground
     
    (Un)Inspired's Avatar

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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    She's a Cleric with some Paladin flavor. I think we're safe.
    Giddy-up then I suppose
    amazing avatar of my favorite character, Gheera, by Pesimismrocks

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Based on what was mentioned about the future trials to unlock the swords power, I think it would be a cool idea if the aquisition wasn't the usual "Find enemy, murderhobo, profit" scheme. How about this:

    The sword is currently owned by some powerful demons minion (I take it there's some demon boss in the city?): a tiefling with some class levels. This tiefling is working as a sort of military police, maintaining order among the demons other minions (demons being an unruly sort), which explains why it has a weapon capable of overcoming their DR.

    The tiefling isn't serving the demon by choice, though. It's charmed, compelled, geased or blackmailed (pick whatever seems most appropriate). It not even evil, it's chaotic neutral. The PC encounters this person while it's on the job, hunting down some minor demons and killing them. The combination of slaying demons and not radiating evil (if the paladin is the kind who spams this ability) should give the party a reason to talk to the tiefling rather than attack it outright, and assuming they can make some sort of deal where they help the tiefling escape it's forced service it will give them the sword (and possibly some useful advice) in exchange. Also, the paladin should be happy to have set someone on the first step towards redemption, and it sets the mood for the future challenges (building on something good, not fighting evil).

    Ofcourse, if they DO outright attack anyway (we all know the types), the sword will atleast have been won in combat against a demonic minion, and the use it was being put to should foreshadow it's eventual powers.
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    There are more posts on the forums about how to nerf T1, than there are posts about T1 characters ruining games. I would say the problem is solved!


    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    This? This isn't a slice of brilliance. This is the whole freaking pie.

    When you play the game of pwns, you're either w1n or n00b. There is no middle ground.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel View Post
    <Weapons of Legacy suggestion>
    This is intriguing, I have heard about the book and it does seem to fit. I think the adventure tries to do something of that sort, as the sword's power unlocks by performing special deeds.

    I don't have the book, but one of my players might, I will try to obtain it. As to the "making them special" problem, well... the campaign said it from the outset, and they all know it. The players has been dying to play a paladin for ages, and the party is cool with him being somewhat in the spotlight. I intend to make the others special in their won right though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    <suggestion about secret moral character trials>
    I Like this idea... I like it A LOT! I just don't want the player to fail... He usually plays very paladin-ish, but he has his moments... But this is indeed a cool concept. However, there is no one to actually perform the test. The old paladin is gone, the religious factions are either scattered or busy fighting for their lives. However...

    There is the paladin's goddess, and it might fit her very much. Combined with the dreams suggestions above, one can say she is seeking for a wielder of the sword, for some new champion for her cause, but it must be a TRUE champion (of a sort)... hmmm...

    I'm just worried the Paladin doesn't succeed here, and then it would REALLY suck, and be a major bummer. But... There must be a chance of failure, if there is to be the thrill of success, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbeefie View Post
    <about loot in the campaign and the downtime
    Thanks for the warning about Downtime, I will need to read about it. Resource management is mentioned here and there in the second module, but I haven't got to the third module yet. (Sigh) I will need to check how it goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grek View Post
    <Radiance stuck in the demon lord>
    It's a cool concept, and I like the imagery of it, especially of the paladin Wretching the sword of the demon. However, They will only be level 3... So no demon lord, or even strong demons. This may need to e more subtle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pickford View Post
    Example:

    Player with healing power 1: I go to heal him.
    DM: As you reach out to touch him, the Paladin grabs you by the collar, pulling you in close. As you struggle to maintain your concentration he gasps into your ear: "Take my sword Radiance....find the others....save....them......" and speaks no more. As you gaze into his eyes, you realize the icy grasp of death has taken hold and no healing can save him from death now.

    Essentially, no matter what the players say or do, the DM is capable of subverting their intentions to follow the plot.
    DM: The NPCs begins to..
    Cleric: I use my channel energy on him.
    DM: Before you do that...
    Cleric: "what do you mean before? It's the first thing I do! It works from a distance too!"

    I understand your sentiment, but I dislike scripted actions and scenes. I allow the player to change nearly everything (It ain't always easy, but it's possible), and they have often found ways to surprise me and circumvent "precautions". I don't like to negate their clever thinking when they do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    The tiefling "demon police" Idea.
    This is an interesting idea, I need to think about it. It gives the possibility of a future recurring NPC, and also A potential for Redemption. I'm just worried that the test isn't too straightforward. I think it might be joined with the "Secret tests" above (Though I'll need to make it less obvious), and maybe the dreams/ portents
    ---------------------------------------
    Thanks all for the ideas, some good stuff in here! My head is swimming with ideas!

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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: A test for the paladin's sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    I Like this idea... I like it A LOT! I just don't want the player to fail... He usually plays very paladin-ish, but he has his moments... But this is indeed a cool concept. However, there is no one to actually perform the test. The old paladin is gone, the religious factions are either scattered or busy fighting for their lives. However...

    There is the paladin's goddess, and it might fit her very much. Combined with the dreams suggestions above, one can say she is seeking for a wielder of the sword, for some new champion for her cause, but it must be a TRUE champion (of a sort)... hmmm...

    I'm just worried the Paladin doesn't succeed here, and then it would REALLY suck, and be a major bummer. But... There must be a chance of failure, if there is to be the thrill of success, no?
    Glad you like it, In my own campaign I put the paladin through a secret test of character though its purpose was to divine if he was still worthy of being a paladin at all. He failed became a blackguard and received a special template I designed called the Fallen of Blackhand which among its abilities were projecting a false alignment aura and the delusion of righteousness which let him wield holy weapons without penalty. You could say he failed the test but as it was given by the God of Tyranny to see if he was worthy to be one of his champions he actually passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kol Korran View Post
    DM: The NPCs begins to..
    Cleric: I use my channel energy on him.
    DM: Before you do that...
    Cleric: "what do you mean before? It's the first thing I do! It works from a distance too!"

    I understand your sentiment, but I dislike scripted actions and scenes. I allow the player to change nearly everything (It ain't always easy, but it's possible), and they have often found ways to surprise me and circumvent "precautions". I don't like to negate their clever thinking when they do so.
    There's a simple solution for this, a very nice houserule. When someone reaches negative ten or their con as it appears your using pathfinder they aren't instantly dead simply beyond help. This allows dying character to impart a few words before passing on without removing the whole dying part.

    In this case you've changed the rules for dying so there is a window between dying and dead where the target is beyond help. Or you can just have him actually be dead and it was his ghost animating the body before departing.
    Last edited by Lord Vukodlak; 2014-01-10 at 02:48 PM.
    Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.

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