A great idea for a character concept, but he's got no class

[mikeejimbo]

For my group's next D&D campaign, which will admittedly be a while from now, I was thinking I would play an elf.

Now, this is a funny thing because if you know my group, we hate elves. Myself included. However, the particular elf I had in mind, they might be able to live with.

He would be Neutral Evil and despise his kin's reputation of Chaotic Good-ness. He hates the Chaotic Good alignment, even more than Lawful Good. (Naturally, he won't use these terms in character - he'll refer to them as anti-heroes or rogues with a heart of gold or 'rebels', that kind of thing.) He hates them because he thinks they are weak goody-two-shoes who are simply too stupid to have structure. Either that, or that they're angsty rebels who think they want to help everyone, especially if they can do it without holding to any sort of ethical code.

Naturally, his goal will be simple: He wants to kill them all. This makes justifying things in game rather simple. Anything he does is likely to either make him more powerful, or lead to the destruction of other elves. Going to raid a dungeon? Think of all the loot that can directly be put to use for destruction. Having to trek to some far-off place just to deliver a message? Hey, if there are elf towns between here and there we can attack them!

So, the problem is that I haven't got a class for him. Many of them would seem fitting. He could be an evil Wizard, and at epic levels research "Genocide: Elf." He could be a ranger and take elves as a favored enemy. He could be a rogue and eventually become an assassin and kill them with mass amounts of poisons.

I briefly considered druid, but I realized that his motivation for killing elves would have to be that they're upsetting the balance, not just that they're goody-two-shoes.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Maybe he rejects their undiscplined lifestyles as well and he could be a monk blackguard or hate the magic elves wield and be a mage killer..... so actually a monk/blackguard/occult slayer would have pretty good saves..... Not awesome in the cheesy sense but interesting (IMO)

[Karsh]

If you've gone that far with your inverse Drizz't-clone, I would go the rest of the way. Barbarian with a greataxe (or some suitably large 2H weapon) to dispel that ridiculous "Elves are finesse fighters" stereotype. You can multiclass into Ranger if you want for the Favored Enemy.

Wizard always works, too, but do you really want to take the favored class of Elves?

[Umbral_Arcanist]

If you've gone that far with your inverse Drizz't-clone, I would go the rest of the way. Barbarian with a greataxe (or some suitably large 2H weapon) to dispel that ridiculous "Elves are finesse fighters" stereotype. You can multiclass into Ranger if you want for the Favored Enemy.

Wizard always works, too, but do you really want to take the favored class of Elves?

Erm, it's not really an anti-Drizzt, he's an evil elf and that also hates (good?) elves....


Oooh, maybe the elf believes he is a half-elf. He was raised by a human who loved an elf but was rejected by said elf, the human abducted his love's child and raised him to hate elves (the bitter evil guy that he was).... that could be interesting, not quite in line with your idea neccessarily though

[Miles Invictus]

There is a delicious irony in using the elves' own stereotypes -- nature, grace, patience -- against them. Therefore, I suggest you go Ranger/Assassin. The hardest requirement to meet is the 4 ranks of Bluff, and a Ranger has the skill points to make that pretty easily. I believe there are even feats that let you designate some skills as permanent class skills -- you could choose Bluff and Survival as permanent ones, saving you skill points at character creation and letting you track effectively as a high-level Assassin.

Eleven or twelve levels of Ranger would give you combat style mastery and access to 3rd-level Ranger spells, while still leaving you room to gain heaps of Assassin spells. Then, you take Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand so you can save your Ranger spell slots for specialty situations.

[Zincorium]

Ranger, favored enemy: elf. Too easy, almost.

Thing is, ranger is a good lead in to assassin, which would be something your character probably would take advantage of.

Edit: Simu'd

[Ptolemy]

There is a delicious irony in using the elves' own stereotypes -- nature, grace, patience -- against them. Therefore, I suggest you go Ranger/Assassin. The hardest requirement to meet is the 4 ranks of Bluff, and a Ranger has the skill points to make that pretty easily. I believe there are even feats that let you designate some skills as permanent class skills -- you could choose Bluff and Survival as permanent ones, saving you skill points at character creation and letting you track effectively as a high-level Assassin.

Eleven or twelve levels of Ranger would give you combat style mastery and access to 3rd-level Ranger spells, while still leaving you room to gain heaps of Assassin spells. Then, you take Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand so you can save your Ranger spell slots for specialty situations.

I think Miles hit the nail on the head there. An assassin who can track you across the wilderness to slay you is not an enemy I'd want to make.

There is one thing about it that seems missing though. If your character is really serious killing ALL the elves (as opposed to just killing all of them that he runs across), he'll need considerably more...how to put this...making-things-go-boom...ness? Anyway, the point is that a wizard would have access to greater destructive power and could get others to do the dirty work.

[Artanis]

What about a Warmage? The fluff says that they have tons of "discipline" and "structure" and whatnot, and Warmages have even more direct-damage firepower than Wizards and Sorcerers. Firepower that can be used, say, to machine-gun Sudden Maximized Admixed Fireballs into a large crowd of Elves...

[mikeejimbo]

Maybe he rejects their undiscplined lifestyles as well and he could be a monk blackguard or hate the magic elves wield and be a mage killer..... so actually a monk/blackguard/occult slayer would have pretty good saves..... Not awesome in the cheesy sense but interesting (IMO)

That's all right, I don't typically play very effective characters. I was actually thinking of Monk a bit ago, but I'd have to be Lawful Evil for that.

Wizard always works, too, but do you really want to take the favored class of Elves?

That's actually a good point. I like your barbarian with a greataxe, though the -2 to constitution might be a bit rough.

Erm, it's not really an anti-Drizzt, he's an evil elf and that also hates (good?) elves....

Nah, Karsh is right, it's an anti-Drizz't clone. More or less as a joke, but of the "ha ha, only serious" sort. So if it's not an anti-Drizz't, what would make him such?

There is a delicious irony in using the elves' own stereotypes -- nature, grace, patience -- against them. Therefore, I suggest you go Ranger/Assassin. The hardest requirement to meet is the 4 ranks of Bluff, and a Ranger has the skill points to make that pretty easily. I believe there are even feats that let you designate some skills as permanent class skills -- you could choose Bluff and Survival as permanent ones, saving you skill points at character creation and letting you track effectively as a high-level Assassin.

Eleven or twelve levels of Ranger would give you combat style mastery and access to 3rd-level Ranger spells, while still leaving you room to gain heaps of Assassin spells. Then, you take Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand so you can save your Ranger spell slots for specialty situations.

Ranger, favored enemy: elf. Too easy, almost.

Thing is, ranger is a good lead in to assassin, which would be something your character probably would take advantage of.

Edit: Simu'd

Those are both excellent ideas. (Well, the same idea simultaneously given.) I shall highly consider that, because assassin seems perfect for the character.

I might make him into a more calculated killing machine, so an Assassin would make sense.

Edit: And yes, he is supposed to be an anti-Drizz't. When I said "great idea" I didn't mean "Ooh, an original and in-depth character," I meant "Wait wait, I got it guys: It's like Drizz't, but NOT."

[Aximili]

Is there any possible variation of the ranger out there that uses INT for spells?
If there is, it would work perfectly with the assassin.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Hee, Ranger/Assassin sounds nice. You may also want to take a look at Rich's sample villain in his "writing villains" articles, for a nice self-loathing Elf. Well, Cambion, really, but you know what I mean. Is it hate that drives him? Disgust? Or shame at his heritage and self that he projects out onto the rest of his race?

Yes, yes, joke character, but method acting can really pay off in roleplay.

[Indon]

I actually have a similar character, namely an elf who was raised by humans and, frustrated at his comparative development speed, is convinced that humans are infinitely more intelligent than elves and would easily prove themselves superior if only they could live a little longer. He's a NE Wizard.

But I digress. If I were working with that character concept and _really_ wanted to be ironic, I'd heavily multiclass him, indicating that he is flighty and indecisive about his abilities, always vascillating between one path or another.

NE Elven Bard/Barbarian/Wizard/Ranger, anyone?

[Behold_the_Void]

As an alternate idea for those suggesting the Wizards due to firepower and all that, look at the Psion.

Although honestly, I really agree with the Ranger/Assassin. That sounds like a lot of fun.

[The_Pope]

Isnt there like some justice of whatever and whatever prestige class from some Forgotten Realms book? Champions of Ruin I think. Something dealing with hunting people more or less? That might work for your Ranger/Assassin type thingamajig. They get some good arrow spells if I remember correctly.

[Jade_Tarem]

Cleric of Gruumsh?

Seriously though, I like the warmage idea best. You could even give him a "Black Mage" persona from Nuklear Power, and that's always fun. The popular Ranger/Assassin response works too.

[Ikkitosen]

Apart from the Wizard with Genocide: Elf thing, all these ideas are small scale. If you want to mess with the elves and reject everything they stand for, start as a druid and go into the Blighter class. Destroy their entire homeland, reject all this woodsy crap and embrace your destructive nature!!

See Complete Divine for details. 9th level spells by 15th level too

[Were-Sandwich]

Isnt there like some justice of whatever and whatever prestige class from some Forgotten Realms book? Champions of Ruin I think. Something dealing with hunting people more or less? That might work for your Ranger/Assassin type thingamajig. They get some good arrow spells if I remember correctly.

Justice of Weal and Woe?

If you go down the Ranger/Assassin route, see if you can pick up some of the most un-subtle asassin spells, like Fire Shurikn, or Heart-Ripper.

[Sir_Banjo]

Erm, it's not really an anti-Drizzt, he's an evil elf and that also hates (good?) elves....


Oooh, maybe the elf believes he is a half-elf. He was raised by a human who loved an elf but was rejected by said elf, the human abducted his love's child and raised him to hate elves (the bitter evil guy that he was).... that could be interesting, not quite in line with your idea neccessarily though

Better yet, orcs.

Don't know how it'd work, but maybe they could just be the garden variety half-breeds.

[mikeejimbo]

Wait wait, that gives me an even crazier idea.

Half Elf, Half Orc.

Other than that, thanks for all the good ideas.

[Umbral_Arcanist]

Hmm, the justice of weal and woe is an elf PrC devoted to killing non-elves (flavor wise)... ironic to say the least.



In my view and anti-drizzt would be a wizard with no regard for others or the world around him. He would be judgmental, stereotyping and tak advantage of allies. Not merely an evil elf... A warmage perhaps. Or Artemis Entreri....

[Roderick_BR]

Well, his class will depend of what he wants to be. He could play a Ranger, to hunt elves in their own element, or be a wizard to face them in equal terms, butt then again, these are typical elf-stuff, something he wouldn't want to do (specially ranger, that tends to be chaotic, and your elf hates chaos as much as good). Monk looks alright, breaks the stereotype, but he'd need to be lawful. Barbarian would be a counter-point to the dexterious Ranger. Fighter would be a neutral choice. Bards doesn't fit his raging style. Sorcerer could work, since it allows him to use magic, but works diferently from wizards, typical elf class. Clerics and druids would work only if he find a deity that helps him in his quest. Maybe a renegade Gruumsh elven cleric?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

An intelligence-based rogue with a swashbuckler dip for Insightful Strike could be dangerous to a spellcasting elf. Take the assassin prestige class too, that's good, and dread commando after that. I'd avoid ranger only because there's three stereotypical elven classes, and ranger's one of them. Focus on all of your stealth skills- hide, move silently, disguise, forgery, sleight of hand, etc. Your big trick is to steal an elf's most necessary posessions out from under their noses before they know you're there- especially spellbooks and signature weaponry- then get in close and deliver a poisoned insightful/sneak/death attack for horrifying damage. It isn't pretty, it can be risky, but I can't think of any better way to quickly dispose of a high level caster without being a high level caster yourself, which can be equally risky anyway.

[Rei_Jin]

Here's another idea for you. Grab the following books

1. Races of Destiny
2. Expanded Psionic's Handbook
3. Player's Handbook

You make yourself a rogue/psion and slightly alter the Scar Enforcer PrC to take it.

You now have the total Antithesis of a standard elf.

Rogue = Not woodsy, loves cities and stability, so he can exploit it
Psion = The opposite of a Wizard, and FAR more focused
Scar Enforcer = Gives you favored enemy (elf), Smite, and Hide in Plain Sight, as well as a half decent BAB and spellcasting (or in this case, psionic) progression.

[mikeejimbo]

Although that sounds good, my DM doesn't allow psionics. I dunno why, maybe it's just too much bookkeeping. I mean, if the problem was because he didn't have any psionics books, I'd buy 'em.

Actually, I'll ask.

[Deathcow]

I had a concept for an elf barbarian who dual-wielded two heavy picks. Hated elves, chose a fighting style that went completely against theirs, and manifested the chaoticness (he was CN) as fury and rage, not as the anti-hero rebel stereotype. Mechanically optimized? No, but he'd have been fun to play.

[Rei_Jin]

Just to give you a rough idea of what the build looks like at level 20...

Sneak Attack +6d6
Smite Enemy 3/day
Hide in Plain Sight
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Favored Enemy (Elves)

Manifesting as a Level 10 Psion
BAB +12/+7/+2
HD 15d8+5d4
Base Fort Save: 5
Base Reflex Save: 8
Base Will Save: 12

You'd still have all your feats to throw onto it, the variation in your psionic discipline, and your stats. This could be an absolutely killer combo.

[Druid]

If you can find a copy of Masters of the Wild, I think it had a ranger PrC that focused completely on killing one kind of enemy of your choice.

[Roderick_BR]

It's Foe Slayer. Among some powers, it gives you Death Strike, like an assassin's but related to favored enemy.

[mikeejimbo]

I checked with my current DM, and apparently I misunderstood him. Psionics just isn't allowed in our current setting. So I could still go the psionic routes.

[Jorkens]

To deal with the "so many elves so little time" issue, you could also go for some sort of diplomatic / charismatic fighter / marshal type, who's trying to work his way into a position of power and influence with a view to either personally launching an open war on the local elves or manipulating other forces into crushing them for you.

I'm guessing you can still be neutral evil if you're only interested in following orders if it suits your personal goals. And this has the advantage that pretty much anything you want to do is motivated - you can either do what your superiors tell you to in order work your way into their favour, or go out and do stuff in your own interests as soon as their backs are turned. Plus charismatic evil characters are cool. Think Steerpike from Gormenghast, maybe.