Why don't they do it themselves!?

[Kaun]

I was reading one of the other threads when a remark some one made got me thinking about one of the old frequently asked rpg conundrums;

...Powerful NPC ask's PC's to retrieve an item in exchange for coin/favor...

Many times have i had my players asked or i have read threads asking or i have contemplated myself.... if this guy is so powerful why doesn't he just magic his way over to that dungeon, blast out the bad guys and get the thing himself.

And for some reason it is only today that i realized... the amount of things i pay other people to do in RL that i could do myself, why is this even a concept that seems at all weird?

Lawn mowing people and fast food chains would be out of business.


Anyway, this may not be a quite the revelation to others that it was to me.


If you have any other weird reoccurring rpg oddities/tropes that are often questioned but can be easily explained when analyzed rationally please post them up.

No doubt there are others.

[lianightdemon]

Time

Sure he could go do it himself, but he is likely doing something more important at his level. Like magic item creation, or magical research, or training. He may also not be very thrill seeking as adventurers and despite his power may not know how to properly use it in a dungeon or combat situation. An example of this was at a larp I played, were there was an npc who was an Archmage and the Guildmistress of the local mages guild. However she used her magic for everyday conveniences and wouldn't dare going into a dungeon or even into combat. She had the adventurers do many things for the Mages guild, despite how grumpy it made many of them. (She also turned out to be corrupt and was stealing magical powers from other mages using a potent artifact, but that didn't come up until 3 years (real time) after she was introduced.)

Just like in real life we are limited to what we know how to do, and what we feel comfortable doing. Sure you could grow your own food, cook your own meals, do your own repairs, but it requires a lot of time. Going to a fastfood place lets you get a meal for 5-10 dollars in 5 minutes or less. You can do this at any hour of the day (except during a power outage)

[kieza]

Because there are tons of things like that that need his attention. On any given day, an archmage is trying to find several lost artifacts, get a copy of several promising new spells, deal with orcs and demons and undead popping up in spots all over the continent, construct a new legendary sword for the king he's supporting, teach a half-dozen apprentices, and still find time to watch his favorite show on the crystal ball in the evening. He can only be in one place at a time, so he picks the most important thing to do and sends adventurers to do everything else.

[Incanur]

It could also be a matter of laziness, convenience, and/or caution. For example, in the last campaign I ran, the party received quests from an illusionist who - while certainly busy enough with diplomatic engagements - simply dislikes combat, danger, and dirt. While theoretically more powerful - i.e. higher level - this character has no desire to undergo the hardships the party routinely faces.

[Red Fel]

Shadowrun is the iconic example of this, for me. A powerful NPC hires the PCs to do something. And by powerful, I mean powerful - this guy could buy a dozen people exactly like my PC a dozen times over, and have barely touched his spending account. So why doesn't he do it himself?

Because he can't. In Shadowrun, the reason NPCs hire the PCs is that the NPCs are visible, simply by nature of the very power they wield. Everyone knows that these guys do incredibly illegal stuff (namely, what they pay PCs to do) but that they can't be seen doing it themselves. So they pay the stooges PCs to do it for them, and ensure that it can't be traced back to them. Either the job will be done, or it won't be because some nameless criminal underlings (again, the PCs) got killed. Either way, it never comes home to roost.

In a more fantasy-oriented version of the trope, perhaps the questgiver is playing a Xanatos gambit. Perhaps he plans for the PCs to fail, making him look good, or if they succeed, he can have them killed - either way, it's vitally important that the task be performed by a bunch of strangers or nobodies who won't be trusted, or missed.

Or perhaps the questgiver has some valuable insight, and knows that not only must the task be done, but it must be the PCs to do it (think "Chosen One" syndrome). In that case, it won't work unless the PCs do it, so he sends them to do it, even if he could probably do it himself.

You know. Reasons.

[NikitaDarkstar]

The archmage is working on other projects, and while it would be nice to have that magical artifact right now he also doesn't feel like ruining several months of hard work he's put in on crafting a new magical item. Either the adventurers he hired succeed, or the thing stays lost for a few more months, because, lets face it, those dirty old ruins have some serious traps in it, and if no one has reached it for centuries it can probably wait a while.

The King is obviously busy running a country, his generals and soldiers can't just run off and leave chunks of territory unprotected and the spymaster is busy actually collecting information.

The guildmaster? Are you kidding? He worked had to get to where he's at right now to NOT have to deal with stuff like that! He's in charge, you're not, and that's why YOU are doing it and he isn't!

The High Priest? Well yes, he could, but if he left to go and do it, who would lead the daily activities of the temple, and protect the community in case something happens?

[Slipperychicken]

And for some reason it is only today that i realized... the amount of things i pay other people to do in RL that i could do myself, why is this even a concept that seems at all weird?

I know that I place some value on my time. While I certainly could prepare all my own meals, wash my dishes, and mow my lawn, I don't for several reasons:

• I don't want to do it.
• Someone else can do it better than me.
• I would rather do something else instead.

Those reasons could help explain the NPCs.

[Kid Jake]

And for some reason it is only today that i realized... the amount of things i pay other people to do in RL that i could do myself, why is this even a concept that seems at all weird?

This is usually my attitude towards powerful NPCs handing out quests, but I think where it breaks down is when the penalty for the PCs failing is worse than a minor inconvenience. If the Ancient-And-Wise-Elf doesn't want to collect his own guano then nobody can really begrudge him. But when he just sort of pops in with his limitless mystical might and tells a group of level ones that the world's going to end in 60 days unless they slay the group of easily slayable kobolds halfway across the continent trying to summon Tiamat into the world; it seems like that'd be something he'd want to see done with his own eyes.

Although now I kind of want to put together an epic wizard that creates end of the world scenarios to run random groups of newbie adventurers through like some sort of hazing.

[Jay R]

NPC: “I want you to go to the black swamps of Telgar to investigate why people are disappearing there.”
PC: “Don’t you have a squad of extremely powerful ninjas rumored to be the best in the world at that sort of spying?”
NPC: “Yes. I’m sending you in to investigate what happened to them.”

—————————–

In a Flashing Blades campaign, I had Richelieu invent a series of missions that took the party all over Europe because, while their success rate was excellent, the collateral damage was too high (chateaus set on fire to erase clues, riots begun to distract the authorities, etc.). Richelieu finally concluded that he wanted that level of chaos and destruction to take place elsewhere than France.

————————–

The characters are hired by a Great White Wizard to sneak into the Black Mage’s castle to steal the Ruby of Power in his throne that is the source of his power. After they go through the traps, monsters and other dangers outside, they have to make their way through the guards and castle traps, finally arriving at the treasure vault, to find the Great White Wizard calmly sitting and holding the ruby.
PC: “If you were coming here, why did you hire us?”
GWW: “To take all the risks, of course. Once the Black Mage’s full attention was bent on killing you, I had no trouble slipping in.”
PC: “Why didn’t you at least tell us?”
GWW: “Because the Black Mage can read lower-level minds. Why do you think you wound up facing every minion he had?”

[Mr. Mask]

The powerful NPC might not realize he is hiring the PCs. He tells an underling, "see to it that this thing is done." The underling looks to mercs to get the job done, and the PCs seem up to the task.

[Erik Vale]

The characters are hired by a Great White Wizard to sneak into the Black Mage’s castle to steal the Ruby of Power in his throne that is the source of his power. After they go through the traps, monsters and other dangers outside, they have to make their way through the guards and castle traps, finally arriving at the treasure vault, to find the Great White Wizard calmly sitting and holding the ruby.
PC: “If you were coming here, why did you hire us?”
GWW: “To take all the risks, of course. Once the Black Mage’s full attention was bent on killing you, I had no trouble slipping in.”
PC: “Why didn’t you at least tell us?”
GWW: “Because the Black Mage can read lower-level minds. Why do you think you wound up facing every minion he had?”

*Adds this to list of things to do for his game*

Although now I kind of want to put together an epic wizard that creates end of the world scenarios to run random groups of newbie adventurers through like some sort of hazing.

Yep. That's being used, somewhere, somehow, just cause.
Additional thought, perhaps the groups eventually find out he's a baddy and try to kill him, now he's instead creating challenges he can gain xp from to level to gain his new x or make item y.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I like the explanation given on page 84 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign manual for 3rd edition D&D.

First, it is not at all certain that those of us with the power or the inclination can even accomplish a tenth of the deeds asked of us. The forces arrayed against us are dark and strong indeed...

Second, the wise amongst us know that even the gods can't foresee all the consequences of their actions -- and all of us have sen far too man instances of good things turning out to cause something very bad or unwanted. We've learned that the meddling often does more harm than good.

Third, few folks can agree on what is right, what should be done, and what the best end result would be. When ye consider a mighty stroke, be assured that every move is apt to be countered by someone who doesn't like the intended result, is determined to stop it, and is quite prepared to lay waste to you, your kingdom, and anything else necessary to confound you.

Fourth, big changes can seldom be affected by small actions. How much work does it take just to build one house? Rearrange one room? How many simple little actions, then, will it take to destroy one kingdom and raise another in its place?

Finally: D'ye think we "mighty ones" are blind? Do we not watch each other and guess at what each is doing and reach out and do some little thing that hampers the aims of another great and mighty? We'll never be free of this problem and that's a good thing.

In summation; there's simply too much for any one power house character to do in the time they have if they're to do these things and stand against their powerful enemies as well. Micro-managing all of the territory within their sphere of influence would leave most such characters horrendously vulnerable to being struck down by their less beneficent counterparts that influence the same sphere.

It -does- make no sense for them to sit idly by in the face of continent and world level threats but even in the face of such things they still have to move carefully enough to avoid leaving themselves too exposed to their enemies while they work.

[NikitaDarkstar]

There's also always the option of the powerful npc's do in fact try to do something about world level threats. The PC's see a bunch of kobolds trying to summon Tiamat and rush to stop it. The arch wizard sees it and contemplates what made the kobolds do it. Are they under some external influence? If so who, why, what and for how long? And starts to work on that. Of course it will turn out there's far more players involved than any one individual can deal with so he gets the pc's to keep helping him, and to avoid drawing unwanted attention to himself he lets the pc's have he spot-light while he works of to the side on "smaller" things.

But on the other hand, once you've made it clear that there's a world-level threat going on it should be the PC's stopping them because they're the only ones who are powerful enough to do it.

[Mr. Mask]

If you're going with a world-destroying threat, the logical conclusion is that the best people available are used for a few-man mission, or as many people as you can get are used (including full-blown armies whenever possible).

The amount of trouble they go to depends on how willing they are to invest in solving the problem.

[Lord Raziere]

"Because I only have so many spells per day and I'm going to spend the rest of my spells on things more important, thank you. kids these days, tell them that your an archmage and they think your power is limitless, what balderdash..."

[icefractal]

First off, people can be rich, and powerful in some ways, without possessing huge capacity in the same realm as the PCs. For example, a king. He's certainly not going into the Tomb of Hilarious Death himself, his bodyguards are needed to protect him (and are probably very specialized, so not actually that effective against traps and such), and his army is large but no single person in it is very powerful, and the Tomb's passages are too narrow for numbers to be much help. But what he does have is lots of money, so he hires some specialists - the PCs.

As for actual "end of the world" stuff - the PCs should not, in fact, be fighting it alone, unless they are actually the most capable people in the world. However, if the event is big enough, the PCs can definitely be involved.
Sage: You must go and destroy the Obsidian Door, so that the destroyer of minds cannot be summoned.
PCs: Why don't you do it?
Sage: Because I'm going to be fighting the Clockwork Emperor's army, who are already marching to raze the surface world. It's a busy apocalypse, everybody's got to do their part.

In that case, I would actually have a specific important thing that the NPC is doing. Not just "vague things of great importance", because that makes the PCs feel like minions.

This does mean that the PCs are probably not going to be pivotal in saving the world at like, 3rd level. IMO, that's fine - the point of even having a level system is that you can move on to greater things as you advance. If you were already saving the world at low-level, what are you supposed to do for a follow-up?

[NikitaDarkstar]

If you were already saving the world at low-level, what are you supposed to do for a follow-up?

Save the universe! And then later possibly the multiverse. Or become gods. Or all of the above! :p

[Excession]

The PCs are disposable. Getting a bunch of soldiers killed is bad for morale, you have to pay pensions to their widows, get bad press, recruit more soldiers. The PCs are a bunch of outsiders that nobody knows, and you only need to pay them if they succeed.

[Mastikator]

Division and specialization of labor, the powerful NPC is good at one task, that task isn't the task that the PCs are good at. Not all tasks can be brute forced with more dakka, not all powerful NPCs have power in the form of dakka.

Basically, the same reason I eat out at lunch when I'm at work rather than brining food, it's more cost effective if I buy it than if I make it.

[Kogak]

Although now I kind of want to put together an epic wizard that creates end of the world scenarios to run random groups of newbie adventurers through like some sort of hazing.

I had a gnomish necromancer that hung around with a half-dragon giant (NPC, so it could eat the LA for kicks and giggles). Both had a decidedly chaotic bent and would randomly teleport to two groups of adventurers. Tell one group "These guys carry a powerful weapon of chaos/evil and seek to slay this town", then go to the other and inform them of the 'assassins' out to get them. Why? Because the little fellow had a high enough bluff, a disposable income and was left unattended for 40 minutes.

Sometimes, your great quest to save the world is just somebody else's form of entertainment. Sense motive is a great thing.

[GungHo]

Do people ask their bosses at work why they don't file their own reports?

[shadow_archmagi]

Most questgivers tend to be people of societal importance- Kings and Archclerics and whatnot. Now, because authority and competence are always directly linked, the king could lead an expedition to retrieve the Lost Scepter of Cigam, but that would leave his nation short one king.

Imagine if your real-world nation's leaders went off to fight wars personally using their Iron Man suits. (all world leaders have these). Sure, it'd be cool, but then who would pass airline rerouting bills?

[ElenionAncalima]

Many people who aim to aquire power and wealth, do it so they don't have to do the grunt labor associated with getting what they want.

Does the wizard want that shiny +5 relic of historicalness?
...Yes. He already has a spot ready in his personal museum.

Could he travel there and obliterate everything in the dungeon without any trouble?
...Of course. Why would you even ask that?

Is it easier for him to just throw gold in the direction of some low level suckers?
...Absolutley. He's busy. His soon to be award winning thesis on breeding owls with bears isn't going to write itself.

In short, you don't need a reason why they can't do it. You just need to explain why they wouldn't want to.

[Driderman]

He or she probably prefers not to muck around in dank crypts, sleep on the ground and risk all sorts of encounters with nasties. And hey, some random PCs are ready to do the dirty work for him!

[Frozen_Feet]

Because he has gullible patsies to do for it him. Seriously people. Leaders have minions for a reason. It's not economical to do every little thing by yourself.

It might also be a matter of teaching new crew members etc.. How will you ever get more useful people if you never let the trainees do anything, huh?

[Jay R]

The correct NPC response to questions like this from the PCs is:

"Do you want the gold or not?"

[Incanur]

Imagine if your real-world nation's leaders went off to fight wars personally using their Iron Man suits. (all world leaders have these).

This highlights the difference between our reality and 3.x D&D especially. In latter, high-level casters mechanically actually could solo the rest the world aside from their peers.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Let's say you want a new computer, but the only way to get it is to kill the salesman. Now, there are no legal consequences to the deed, and the social ones balance out-- some people might judge you, but others will say "haha, awesome knife work, man." And it's not like it'd be a fair fight, either-- the salesman's got a stick, while you have body armor, grenades, and an assault rifle.

But still, could you actually make yourself shoot the guy? I couldn't. Historically, most soldiers haven't been able to either.

So you hire someone to do it for you. PCs, even Good aligned ones, are psychopaths. They don't have the slightest qualms about killing anything that stands in their way.

[Amaril]

This highlights the difference between our reality and 3.x D&D especially. In latter, high-level casters mechanically actually could solo the rest the world aside from their peers.

This is really the problem. If we were following the assumptions of a realistic world, the idea that high-level archmagi pay PCs to do their work for them because they can't be bothered to put in the effort would make complete sense. The thing is, in D&D, the high-level archmage could literally do in twelve seconds what it would take a group of adventurers a week to accomplish, at almost no risk to themselves. The necessity of slogging through a dank, moldy dungeon to get the relic would be a perfectly sensible deterrent, but the archmage wouldn't need to do that at all--they could just scry-and-port, obliterate every hazard in the room with a single spell, grab the shiny, and pop back home in less time than it would take to explain the quest to the PCs. There really is no reason for them not to do it themselves, because nothing is difficult or time-consuming for them anymore.

[Pex]

In a campaign once during the high level phase the party members were the People of Importance - the Duke & Pope, Wizards' Guild Headmaster, the Godfather, etc. While in our home city investigating shenanigans of the BBEG we found his minions and gave chase. They escaped into the sewers. Meanwhile, a particular crisis of another matter was happening that needed to be solved as well. We didn't have time to search the sewers. As the Duke, I hired a group of adventurers to do the stereotypical clear out the sewers adventure. I think their level was 8. If they could bring us the minions, great, but any information they could find would help, even if just where/how they left the city. I offered a nice sum for their services plus naturally they could keep any spoils (i.e. treasure) they find. It was quite thrilling to be the Patron Who Hires Adventurers for once.