New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    So I'll get right to it.

    I think Kraagor might be a monster.

    That is to say, I think he might be one of the handful of monsters capable of assuming the shape of a dwarf, such as a doppleganger.

    I think the big argument the order of the scribble had over his death was due to Soon being unable to see past Kraagor as a monster, and not caring about his death. Girard, as the son of a half-dragon, was the most sympathetic to Kraagor.

    I think the reason Serini has a bunch of monster contacts is because she met them through Kraagor, and I think the reason she was able to convince a bunch of monsters to run Kraagor's tomb is BECAUSE it is Kraagor's tomb. Note also that many of the behind-the-scenes monsters we have seen thus far are mimic-types.

    I think Kraagor, and the monsters in his dungeon, are being set up as a juxtaposition to Redcloak as beings willing to defend the world despite being persecuted, versus beings willing to risk the world's destruction to end their persecution.

    Thoughts?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Location
    Misery (h/t XTC)
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I like the theory, if for nothing else the fact that it posits a new piece of information we don't already have that would change our understanding but actually doesn't rely on any statements being exactly untrue or wildly manipulated. (It would mean that Redcloak was misinformed about Kraagor, but then, Redcloak is misinformed about a lot of things.) And it does have the potential to answer a lingering question which has been floated several times but never addressed - what exactly made the Scribblers hate one another so much that they broke up and most of them refused to ever see one another again?

    The biggest problem I see with it, conversely, is that there's not really any evidence for it beyond potential narrative utility. That's not to say that proves it wrong or disproves it or anything of the sort, but I don't feel like "it would make a satisfying story twist" really works as an argument in favor of something. This is, of course, also compounded by the fact that Kraagor is the Scribbler we know the least about, and the bits we do know are clearly leaving something out. (Yeah, having a party member die in battle is going to lead to some hurt feelings, sure, but to the point that some parts of the party were ready to kill one another if needed?)

    So it's a bit light on justification. But I do like what it potentially says about the cast and where the story is going.
    "But it always seemed weird to me to get mad about things going wrong, as if everything turning out OK was promised to anyone, ever. There wouldn't need to be paladins if the world was, like, fair." -Lien

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Howard Johnson Dame_Mechanus is right
    I get to be a favorite today!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I don't like this from a narrative perspective. You change a complicated set of emotional opinions on the death of a close friend into cut and dry racism.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2014

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    It goes against everything we know up to this point and doesn't really add much as a twist.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Nov 2021

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I like this a lot. It would explain Scribble drama, including the bitter-sounding "sacrifice forgotten" epitaph.* It would explain why Kraagor's tomb feels so much more like a deceptive puzzle rather than a contest of strength.** It's not illusion, but it's not what it seems like either.

    I don't know if me enjoying it personally makes it more likely to be the actual plot, but kudos.

    * Yes, this could be about the world at large or just be about more garden-variety issues. But that's not as exciting.
    ** Yes, this could just be because it was made by a rogue who had a barbarian friend and that's it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    Interesting but unlikely
    For me the Scribble conflict is that Soon got them together because he lost his wife to the rifts. So for him it was a danger that needed to be sorted out/ vengeance factor.
    On the other hand Lirian and Dorukan - and maybe Draketooth - saw it as a magical phenomenon and maybe were more interested in exploring the world inside.
    Then add them becoming Epic characters and getting pulled into more extreme positions by necessity and Darketooth being a git in general.
    And finally ‘something’ happened. What it was we don’t know, but it’s possible that Soon saw some deaths as noble sacrifices and Girard disagreed.
    So it all just built up until they snapped.
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I think the explanation we already have is enough.

    Soon told the other members of the Order to cast the spell despite knowing that he and Kraagor could both die. He lived. Kraagor died.

    Then, on top of that, Soon insisted that, for the safety of the Gates, no one could know of them, so no one would know of Kraagor’s sacrifice.

    Girard already disliked Lawful people in general, and Paladins, and liked Kraagor a lot more than he did Soon.

    Lirian and Dorkan, for their part, were the ones to cast the spell that killed Kraagor, and also poured their fortunes into building the Gates. They likely were dealing with guilt and, on top of that, felt Soon wasn’t respecting their contributions enough with his emphasis on honour over magic for protecting the Gates.

    And that was enough for things to fracture.

    Not everyone hated each other. Lirian and Dorukan didn’t hate each other, and Girard and Serini did’t either (at least, Girard set up his spell to notify both of them if Soon interfered). But the possibility of allaiances between members would increase mutual fear and the risk of conflict, so Serini convinced everyone to split up.
    Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2022-08-13 at 03:34 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I seem to remember the Giant insinuating somewhere that at some point in this last book we'd find out the full story with what really happened to break up the Scribble, what happened with Soon and Kraagor. But I think the basic outline we've heard is likely to be correct, although I expect we are missing some important context.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A theory about Kraagor. (Potential Spoilers)

    I'm 90% convinced that Kraagor is alive on the other side of the rift, where we saw all the oceans. It could be that Soon called off a search to find him for fear of the Snarl, knowing full well he might still be alive.

    I'm guessing that's how this current plot arc ends: The Order ends up on the other side of the rift somehow. The rising tension between Recloak and Xykon resolves catastrophically for one of them, resulting in Redcloak either redeeming himself by helping against Xykon and then joining in on Thor's plan or, more likely, doubling down on evil but getting somehow tricked into providing the spell energy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •