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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Tuesday, January 28th, 2014 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Kuulvheysoon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Tuesday, February 11th, 2014 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Complete Psionic's Zerth Cenobite!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez, optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Spoiler: The First Fifty
    Show
    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
    Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
    Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus
    Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger

    Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
    Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    FAQ:
    What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Kuulvheysoon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    How many powers do I know by 10th level of the SI? Follow the "Powers Known" from the table. Although the text does say one per level, it later contradicts itself in the text and agrees with the table.

    What if we continue advancing the manifesting beyond 10th level? Then your ML increases, much as you can continue to advance a casting PrC beyond 10 levels. This increases the duration of hour/level powers, increases the cap that you can spend on powers and gives you bonus PP (for the purposes of this round, assume that Practiced Manifester works the same way).

    What kind of action does Temporal Distillation/Precognition take? For the purposes of this round, assume that they are both Free Actions to activate.

    Does the Tashalatora (Zerth Cenobite) feat count the SI twice? Oh no, it's going to be way too overpowered. Seriously, monks aren't that awesome in the first place. Feel free to double-dip the SI for this round.
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2014-01-15 at 07:57 PM.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    ok first question out of the gate -
    Manifesting: Power point reserve of at least 2. can we get a clarification on this

    EDIT *and Special: Still mind class feature.
    Last edited by relytdan; 2014-01-13 at 11:45 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by relytdan View Post
    ok first question out of the gate -
    Manifesting: Power point reserve of at least 2. can we get a clarification on this

    EDIT *and Special: Still mind class feature.
    They're exactly what they sound like; the first means that you need a PP pool of at least 2 (granted by class, race, etc...), while the second requires the Still Mind class feature.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    dantiesilva's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Well good luck to all Psionics I know is my weak point.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Yee haw. Competing.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Throw me in as a judge unless I get the time towards making it a build
    Check Out
    Check out my youtube channel just click here and enjoy?

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage View Post
    You're a frickin' ninja below me, too!? You got mad skills, Vknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Rogue vs. Dog. (The new Cat vs. Commoner, only not amusing!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
    "Sleep is optional, just ask Vknight" Someone I Forget but thanks... I don't

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    not entirely sure why you get the reasoning for table trumping text on the powers known ... page?

    Do the Power learning stack with PsyWarrior (given that stuff is taken from there) ?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    not entirely sure why you get the reasoning for table trumping text on the powers known ... page?

    Do the Power learning stack with PsyWarrior (given that stuff is taken from there) ?
    It says that you get one power per level on page 43 under the Powers Known tab, but then directly contradicts itself on page 45 under Advancement, and the sample character also follows the table. I'm betting that it's a copy/paste error from the PsyWar description (and so, I'm treating it as such).

    As for the second, the PP would stack, but the powers learned do not. a PsyWar 3/Monk 3/Zerth Cenobite 3 would know 1st level powers from both his PsyWar and ZerCen levels.
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2014-01-13 at 12:13 PM.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    I dont know enough about psionics to compete this time round i dont think, will read the class and see if it jumps out at me though.. the name is cool enough to make me want to try!

    all the best

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    We've dealt with this issue in past competitions, but it may be worth throwing it into this round's FAQ, as well:

    Please clarify for all contestants what would happen with a theoretical build who advanced its Manifesting Level, having completed the SI without a different Psionic Class upon which to build. In other words, please clarify increasing the Manifester Level of Zerth Cenobite above 10th, before Epic levels.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    trying to find a good reason why i shouldn't resubmit Moroie with slight changes

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Am I missing something, or is that... really not a good PrC at all? For the amount I've heard it bandied around in CO threads, I was expecting it to be good. But it gets incredibly limited manifesting, and a handful of shiny abilities that are all 1/day. Talk about the 15 minute adventuring day.

    Also, I'm really not seeing the point in removing yourself from battle as a standard action. If it was an immediate action, it would have some value in dodging blows. But as it is, it's just a way to deprive your team of a member for Wis mod rounds.

    I'm not actually sure I can do anything with this. It doesn't help that I don't know Psionics terribly well at all, but I can't see any way to make 1/day abilities relevant.

    One question - what happens if you mix this with Tashalatora?
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2014-01-13 at 12:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    If it just had 3/day or at will abilities instead of 1/day and didn't require Still Mind this would be quite a good class. Well, let's see what can be done with it as is. I'm in.

    EDIT: Also, Kuul, you said you selected this class because people were clamoring for something without an alignment prereq. I have to ask, are you trolling us?
    Last edited by WhamBamSam; 2014-01-13 at 01:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    If it just had 3/day or at will abilities instead of 1/day and didn't require Still Mind this would be quite a good class. Well, let's see what can be done with it as is. I'm in.

    EDIT: Also, Kuul, you said you selected this class because people were clamoring for something without an alignment prereq. I have to ask, are you trolling us?
    It doesn't have an Alignment prereq, really.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    EDIT: Also, Kuul, you said you selected this class because people were clamoring for something without an alignment prereq. I have to ask, are you trolling us?
    Nope - do you see an alignment prerequisite in there?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    I've got a hilarious idea for this one, I'm totally cooking.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    I'm overdue for a judging. This is a neat PrC, but I think I'll try to judge this round instead of competing.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Can we stop the speculation on alignment please? Thank you.
    Last edited by Gwachitallemall; 2014-01-13 at 02:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Please clarify for all contestants what would happen with a theoretical build who advanced its Manifesting Level, having completed the SI without a different Psionic Class upon which to build. In other words, please clarify increasing the Manifester Level of Zerth Cenobite above 10th, before Epic levels.
    I'm going to second this question. Mr. Chairman, can we get clarification on this?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

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    Far out in the countryside, there is a cave. The cave is warm, and faintly lit by glowing moss on the walls.

    A passerby would believe that the cave is quiet, but if they enter, they will hear the faint sound of running water. If they progress further into the cave, the sound will resolve into a bubbling brook.

    If the visitor continues into the furthest room of the cave, they will see a man of average appearance sitting on a rock. His knees are bent up, and his arms are wrapped around his legs. A DC 15 Spot check will show the man is rocking back and forth slightly. A DC 20 Listen check will show the man is mumbling. If the visitor pauses to listen to the words, they will discover the man is saying "23. There were 23 entries. 23 times 6 checks on level plus Charisma mod. 23 weapons. Adding up so many values. 23 times. Did it ever end?"

    If the visitor waits long enough, though, they will see the man stop rocking. "It ended. I got through. It is over."

    Slowly, the man stands up. "I can do this. I really can. It can't get any worse." The man walks towards the entrance of the cave.


    I really like psionics. And I love Monks. So I am in to judge. I'll post my criteria when I can get to the computer that has them.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    I'll compete. I've got a pretty good idea brewing, although I'll third the request for clarification that the two above me mentioned.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    As promised, my criteria...

    Originality
    I tend to look at each entry based on their own merit, rather than compare each to another. If two entries use the same class, but go about them differently, they won't lose Originality points from me. However, if the entries are similar, they will. Multiple builds that all use the same "trick" will be marked down.

    Power
    I stole this from a previous judge, but it sums up my point of view. "Power comes down to, quite simply, how the build would fare in a mid-power campaign." I am not an min-maxer, and I do not play with min-maxers. I'm used to thinking of PCs as they are seen in many of the D&D books - where characters of different types of classes work together to get the job done.

    As a heads-up, an extremely powerful PC will be marked down if, in my view, it would not work well as a member of a mixed party. (Mixed party defined as "not all PCs are pure casters.") That is not to say any Tier 1 PC will lose points, as they can be built in a way to help (rather than replace) the rest of the party.

    A small deduction will be taken if I determine that a build would work better as an NPC than a PC.

    Elegance
    I REALLY dislike dipping, which I define as taking 1-2 levels of a base class. This is one of my two hard-and-fast rules. It does not matter WHY you only took 1-2 levels of a base class. If you do, you will lose points. I am a little more open to taking 1-2 levels of a PrC, especially in a competition like this where it is expected 10 levels of the SI will be taken. However, excessive "dipping" of PrCs will also lose Elegance points.

    On the flip side, I like a good story. A lot of "strange" class changes and combos can be "overlooked" if the contestant can provide a logical reason for them. Also, I am aware English is not everyone's first language, and if a contestant feels they were marked down because they could not adequately explain their concept, I am willing to reevaluate my analysis of their Elegance. (Note I did not say I will automatically increase their score, but if informed, I will give it a second look.)

    To me, Elegance is how well everything fits together, and how each individual "ingredient" adds to the overall dish.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    The point of this competition is the Special Ingredient, so obviously it should be the focus. Competitors will lose points if they use less than 9 levels of the SI. (I'd prefer to see all 10, but sometimes, things just cannot be helped.) This is my other hard-and-fast rule. You will lose points if you do not take at least 9 levels of the SI.

    Beyond that, how well the entire build fits in with the SI. If I feel the SI is tacked on only because it is the SI, I will mark down.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    I'll try to compete again, maybe I'll be able to do better.

    EDIT: what is the action to use temporal distillation?
    Last edited by Irk; 2014-01-13 at 04:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    You know I've got rules questions:

    • To clarify, Still Mind must be obtained as a class feature. This means that feats/items/races/silly songs that grant Still Mind "as the class feature" are not kosher since they are not, themselves, class features, correct?
    • This seems to be a no-go, but given the text "You can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level," can a Zerth Cenboite manifest powers she doesn't know, presuming she meets the ML requirement? Do they even need to come from the psychic warrior list? After all, it says you can manifest any power...
    • What kind of action is required to activate Temporal Distillation? From the SRD:
      Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise
      But this seems kind of silly. The first level ability to activate as a standard action to gain a move action can be done by any character using core rules. At 5th level it's a wash: "I use my standard action to activate Temporal Distillation, which allows me to...use a different standard action." At 10th level, it finally gains legs, but still...
    • What kind of action is required to activate Precognition? From the SRD:
      A psi-like ability has a manifesting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability description
      So I make an attack I don't like, but I can't modify it w/ Precognition because I've used my standard action ? I know, I'll activate Temporal Distillation ! Oh wait, I've already used my standard action
    . Again, it seems silly. Please tell me there's something I'm missing...
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2014-01-13 at 05:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Currently sitting and wondering why I stencilled in Iron Will as one of my feats in my pre-build

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    We've dealt with this issue in past competitions, but it may be worth throwing it into this round's FAQ, as well:

    Please clarify for all contestants what would happen with a theoretical build who advanced its Manifesting Level, having completed the SI without a different Psionic Class upon which to build. In other words, please clarify increasing the Manifester Level of Zerth Cenobite above 10th, before Epic levels.
    According to what I've been able to find, all it would do is increase your ML (and the amount of PP that you could spend on a power). Much like having an Assassin CL of 12, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    One question - what happens if you mix this with Tashalatora?
    It stacks exactly as you'd think it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES
    To clarify, Still Mind must be obtained as a class feature. This means that feats/items/races/silly songs that grant Still Mind "as the class feature" are not kosher since they are not, themselves, class features, correct?
    It specifies the class feature, unfortunately.
    This seems to be a no-go, but given the text "You can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than your manifester level," can a Zerth Cenboite manifest powers she doesn't know, presuming she meets the ML requirement? Do they even need to come from the psychic warrior list? After all, it says you can manifest any power...
    Given that Divine Minds, Lurks, Psions, Psionic Fists, Psychic Warriors, Warminds and Wilders all share that same language, I think that you can guess what my answer is for that.
    What kind of action is required to activate Temporal Distillation?
    What kind of action is required to activate Precognition?
    Funny enough, by RAW they would both be Standard Actions (Temporal Distillation definitely so as a (Su), Precognition likely so as a (Ps)).
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2014-01-13 at 05:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    It stacks exactly as you'd think it does.
    That helped absolutely nothing ... i can think of two way it does ... what i think is RAW (a teoretical Monk3/Zerth10 effectively being monk 23 for damage, AC and 13 for Speed and Flurry of Blows ... or what i believe is RAI which is =monk 13 for damage, AC, speed and Flurry

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    That helped absolutely nothing ... i can think of two way it does ... what i think is RAW (a teoretical Monk3/Zerth10 effectively being monk 23 for damage, AC and 13 for Speed and Flurry of Blows ... or what i believe is RAI which is =monk 13 for damage, AC, speed and Flurry
    A thousand apologies, I forgot that the Zerth Cenobite stacked monk UAS. Tossing it in the Q&A now (as I'd be inclined to guess the 23rd level monk, but that doesn't seem right).

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Funny enough, by RAW they would both be Standard Actions (Temporal Distillation definitely so as a (Su), Precognition likely so as a (Ps)).
    Ugh. So are we following RAW for that one? If so, are my action economy confusions outlined above left to each chef to deal with individually?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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