Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIII

[Eldonauran]

{table=head]Character|JudgeA|JudgeB|JudgeC|Total
Nick Snarespan|17.53|14|13.50|45.03
Parmelk|17.20|14.75|12.5|44.45
Nola Bramblethorn|17.03|13.25|13.50|43.78
Douglas Yangtze|16.5|13.25|11.50|41.25
Teoldrin Timeweaver|14.92|14.25|11|40.17
Tri'ijin|15.05|11|12|38.05
Wutheh|13.98|11|10.50|35.48
Orthagonel Velodrake|14.20|6|13|33.20
[/table]

The table should be up to date now.

Not that it will make difference, Teoldrin Timeweaver should have a 11.5 from judge C. Total should be 40.67

Orthagonel Velodrake should have a 6.5 from Judge B.

Err, maybe a new table is needed.

Nevermind. I'm sure it'll be updated.

[relytdan]

[Eldonauran

Orthagonel Velodrake 14.20 , 6 , 13 33.20 - - - Score 2 should be 6.5 as it was updated

[WhamBamSam]

{table=head]Character|Tim Proctor|relytdan|Kesnit|Total
Parmelk|17.20|14.75|13.5|45.45
Nick Snarespan|17.53|13.5|14|45.03
Nola Bramblethorn|17.03|13.25|13.5|43.78
Douglas Yangtze|16.5|13.25|11.5|41.25
Teoldrin Timeweaver|14.92|14.25|11.5|40.67
Tri'ijin|15.05|11|12|38.05
Wutheh|13.98|11|10.5|35.48
Orthagonel Velodrake|14.2|6.5|13|33.7
[/table]

Got the extra half points for Orthagonel and Teoldrin. Nick's scores from relytdan and Kesnit seem to have been switched as well, so I corrected that. Assuming all dispute results have been edited into the original judging posts (and it it appears they have been), this should be up to date.

I think that Kesnit is still in deliberation over Parmelk's dispute, but other than that it seems the first three judgings have been pretty well settled.

[Kesnit]

Parmelk
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. RL invaded briefly.

You made a lot of good points in your dispute, but I was somewhat hesitant to agree with you because I see a lack of power in your weapon. In the interest of fairness, though, I decided to take the dispute to a neutral outsider - my wife. She agreed with your arguments, though she did see my point about only having a +1 weapon. So to split the middle, +1 to your power.

New Total: 13.5 / 3.375

[WhamBamSam]

...and edited accordingly. We've now got a difference of less than a half point between first and second with at least one more judge likely to weigh in. This is exciting.

[Tim Proctor]

...and edited accordingly. We've now got a difference of less than a half point between first and second with at least one more judge likely to weigh in. This is exciting.

GNOME
Nola and Douglas are far from out too. There is an average standard deviation between contestants of 1.78, so its well reasonable that Nola and Douglas can make a comeback.
GNOME
Standard Deviations of the Judges.
Judge A 1.422527303
Judge B 2.671777097
Judge C 1.237436867GNOME

[Rizban]

I've been moving and just have not had time to deal with my ISP. They were supposed to have had the internet activated here Monday, but plugging in my modem produced nothing. I've only recently managed to finally get them to move my service over to the new address. It's after midnight now though, and my 2 year anniversary is tomorrow, which is going to be totally dedicated to my girl. I should still be able to get the judging done by the 11th.

[Vaz]

Work decided to pull a fast one. Got a day off today, so continuing to work on it.

[Vaz]

Sorry for the double post. So shoot me.

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Tri'jin ; 13.25 (3.3125)

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Originality; 5
Okay, so a Dragonborn Skarn wasn't something that sprung to mind immediately, and Soul Manifester+Incarnum Tricks I'd discounted as being unuseable yet were seen here. And while Monk was expected, the use of the Skarn substitution made is different enough from the standard Monk that I think that penalty can be waved. (+2).
For the record, the story was pretty cool; not sure about the Chaotic nature of the character though or the Skarn's attitude to him as such - they tend to view Chaotic Skarn's more as "black sheep" rather than hatred like yours suggests.
Power; 4.5/5
You're a pouncing, invisible fist monk. Your BAB suffering limits this effectiveness, but the action economy breakage granted by the class and psionics makes the ability to use Invisible Fist a bit more effectivy more palatable to combat effectiveness. You can also attempt to Intimidate using the Action Economy, but its low maximum tends to limit it somewhat. I'd like to point out that your tactics do not actually work (see elegance), but I'd let it fly as a DM so you get the points. (+1)
Utility; you have a 5 chance roughly for UMD, and reasonable Intimidate, although fairly late on, which makes you somewhat capable outside. Minor knowledge ranks helps with esoteric knowledge, but isn't what would be expected of a knowledge(+0.25)
Scouting; Chameleon and a passing attempt at stealth along with Chameleon can keep you hidden. You're detection abilities are a bit better than a base Skarn, but they're not exactly dedicated scouting material. (+0.25).
This comes across as a 5th party member; not necessarily a bad thing, but it means you seem to be intended to shore up weaknesses in the party; you're hardly a tank or damage dealer, and your PsyWar manifesting is sadly combat focused reducing utility until later on. (+/- 0)
Elegance; 1/5 - Minimum
Sadly, qualification penalties abound; Power Attack is minor, that can be a swift rearrange of the feats, and doesn't invalidate anything. Skarn Monk removes your Improved Unarmed Strike Bonus feat, and Passive Way monk doesn't actually get Improved Grapple, so you don't qualify for Scorpion's Grasp. And lacking Int 12, you do not actually get to USE (different from "select") your Passive Way bonus feats, which as you use them in your attack routine there's a penalty here. Being a Dragonborn also removes your Spines, so you get no benefit from the Spines, and Sphinx Claws do not grant pounce as you have no spines, and unarmed strikes are not natural attacks as defined by the SRD; http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...naturalWeapons does not list them. Sorry, going to dock you to 1 here for all of these.
Dragonborn includes serious fluff considerations; it requires a dedication to beating Tiamat and her followers; there's no mention at all of that in your background, and despite it allowing for small breaks which ultimately aid Bahamut's fight, there's nothing there; considering you got mechanical benefits from this as well, I'm sorry I've got to penalise for that (despite the attempted mechanical benefits of Skarn etc being lost) as well. (-1)
There's no reason to go Chaotic, but you have done; the fluff mentions only discipline etc which are the hallmarks of Law, rather than Chaos. However, you've mentioned the change, so penalties here for that, as well as the rapid change in which it occurs. (-0.5)
I'd like to give some benefits here, but sadly, there's nothing I can give bonus points for; no multiclass-penalty-avoiding, you've taken a 2 level dip etc, so this score is sadly lower than I'd like to give, but fair is fair.
UoSI 2.75/5
You've only taken minimum ranks in Concentration. There's so much which could have been done with a higher concentration. (-0.5)
The Class Abilities seem tacked on and ignored for the most part; you've not explained as to why you would take the class and its focus on Zerthin is preferable over the Psionic Fist, Tashalatora PsyWar/Ardent, or even a Gished Monk Slayer, when you're only really using the Psionics. (-1)
Manifester Level 12 however is pretty good and above what was expected. Combined with the Incarnum jazzyness, that's a decent usage from the Psionics (+0.5)
The feel of the class was sort of followed; thematic powers, and a distinct monk flavour, yeah go on. (+1)
Although all 10 levels were taken, I cannot see exactly where they were involved; for all the use of them, you could have honestly taken any of the medium BAB Manifesters and just refluffed them, so I cannot give you bonuses here. I'd decided to award bonus points for early entry only if it was achieved at or before ECL7 (yes, it's possible), so nothing there either. (+/- 0)
Temporal Strike is a decent capstone; but your one use of it has a DC of 17 before items; it's hardly something that impressive that's meant to be the unique reason you take the class. (-0.25)

Nick Sparespan; 16.5 (4.125) 16.75 Maths Error

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Originality; 4.5/5
Able Learner Human. Monk entry as well. Yeah, expected. PsyRogue? Colour me intrigued. Trapsmith as well? Damn, son, just earned yourself what would be 4.5; would have been nice to see no Human however (I'm not going to give max points for a human; it's nice to see none humanoid races). The penalty here is capping the score at 4.5 for the use of human, rather than an outright -0.5, if that makes sense.
Power 5/5
Invisible Fist Sneak Attacker with free Standard Action Teleport for Full Attacking goodies. Even though that's 1/encounter and 2/day, it's okay. Dex to Damage is decent as well. Throw in Sun School for a decent nova. Outside of that, you can Shadow Jaunt, but it costs your standard, so you can't full attack, and your Traps can cause a bit of trouble for the opponents, causing perhaps some battlefield control. Honestly, with the options available to you, I think that taking Lion's Charge might have been a waste of a power, but that's something that's down to personal taste; neither is there much more available on the PsyWar list that's that good either. UPD also gives you immense utility; as well. (+1)
Scouting is good; Darkstalker is the must have, and maxed Hide/Move Silently is ace for that. Not Spot or Listen means your detection is horrendous - would have been nice to see it on a Wis-based class, but with UPD, this can help you out somewhat. (+0.75)
Utility; Autohypnosis, Trapmaking, Disable Device, Search and UPD all lead to an excellent out of combat ability. (+1).
You can fulfil pretty much any role outside of main tank; which even with UPD, unless your DM is kind and gives you a scaling Caster level version of a Psicrown of Astral Construct, you cannot aid to. However, that's a niche role, and one which other members should cater for considering the amount of ability you build in other niche roles. Trapsmith's Spell list is the icing on the cake. Full Points.
Elegance 3/5 - 3.25 Maths Error
The Chair ruled that you could double dip Tashalatora. Can't say I agree with him, but I'm not going to penalise for that. Just I eel that that's an oversight by the rules, rather than anything particular, and would like to point it out. Fair play for making use of it though. (+/- 0)
You do not qualify for Weapon Finesse; it requires a BAB of +1. (-0.25)
Mitigation; Multiclass Penalties are not avoided (but could be), and PsyRogue dip don't qualify for the bonus points. However, finishing 2 Prestige Classes is good enough (+0.25). Would be more, but chopped up the progression unfortunately.
Skills; 4 Maxed, and 4 with extremely high scores. (+0.25).
UoSI 4/5
Explained use of the class abilities makes perfect sense from a mechanical point of view. Everything is checked off from what I can see. Good job. (+1)
All 10 levels were taken, and all abilities used well. (+0.5)
Concentration's not maxed, and with Martial Study, would have expected to see some Diamond Mind maneuvres with the requisite ability. (-0.25)
The feel of the class in maintained. It's a little jarring to see a Rogue, an arguably chaotically flavoured class then changing to monk, and considering the Zerthin fluff, seems slightly off. The Trapbox tinkering is a little strange as well. I'm not going to penalise, because it's explained, but seems more contrived to fit the mechanics rather than a natural flow. (+/- 0)
Temporal Strike has a low DC of 17 before items; it's something I'd wanted to see worked around as it's one of the few abilities the class has to call its own. You do well in combat despite this; which IMHO is not really what the IC is about. (-0.25)

Teoldrin; 12.75 (3.1875)

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Originality; 3.75/5
Okay. I'm in two minds about Archivist. When determining whether to enter or not, I looked into non-monk entries, and found only a few other "Still Mind" which have been addressed elsewhere in the thread. Effectively being only one of two ways into the class means that you pass into one of two camps; either "obvious originality grab" with Archivist or "just following the crowd". I decided from then to only reward Archivist if it did so in a manner that was pretty unique.
Azurin; wasn't expecting Incarnum tricks, so Azurin was unexpected despite being functionally human for the most part. (+0.25).
Incarnum tricks; as above, I wasn't really expecting them. (+0.5)
Power; 3.5/5
I'm in two minds here; Archivist provides 2nd level spells, but the low Caster Level renders much of them useless, and without a typical prepared list I cannot credit even the well known versatility that provides; neither do I particularly see where the Archivist fits in with the SI (which I'll point out later). Psionics provides some useful benefits; nice to see the use of Open Chakra; however, it doesn't do what you think it does; so I cannot credit that either (the rest are de-rigeur for PsyWar lists), you can only have one in use – otherwise you run into the whole “Warm Fireshield/cold fire shield” thing, and with a Manifester level of 10, you cannot augment any higher, leaving you with Crown/Feat/Hands.
Your combat capabilities are decent; augmented by Weapon Finesse, Swordsage, Shadowblade, Gloom Razor, typical PsyWar buffs, you can cope. Mauling Gauntlets was a nice little buff as well; but it sort of limits the power available from your other Binds; although this can be changed out given enough time. It's a shame that it came in so late, which is why you don't get the full benefit here. (+0.75)
There's more to Scouting than keeping yourself hidden and quiet; no detection abilities to speak of etc, and no Darkvision makes it hard to keep yourself scouting against many threats. There's an effort gone in there, however, so (+0.25).
Other utility; you sacrifice this for power. Without Archivist spell list, like said, I cannot give the benefits for it, and PsyWar has its own utility. Minor abilities in knowledge earlier on are lost against ever increasing DC's. (+/- 0).
And sorry, Archivist crops up again; any time I see a build that includes Archivist, I wonder exactly what the class gained when it stopped Archivist progression. (-0.5).
Elegance 3.25/5
I couldn't see any problems with qualifying for anything. (+0.25).
Multiclass Penalties aren't avoided (Archivist+Swordsage), and the choppy progression (Swordsage+Zerth Cenobite) can't provide that bonus points for that. (+/- 0), so no mitigation sadly.
UoSI; 2.25/5
Got to admit, I'm not sure exactly where the class fitted in; either thematically or mechanically for you. The fluff didn't really ring home as something I'd see as a Zerth Cenobite; there's plenty of time bending mechanics available as a Psionic character; the Zerth Cenobite has a particular background and flavour that didn't really come across. (-0.5).
All 10 levels were taken, but failed to see exactly where they were “being used” as opposed to “being there”, so no bonus points. (+/- 0)
You have nothing to support the idea of a monk, really, fluff or mechanically – you have no monk levels to stack with the SI. (-0.5)
Concentration is maxed; nothing keyed off it, though that I can see (outside of the standard uses etc) (+0.25)
Your Psionics is reinforced by Incarnum. However, like mentioned, other Psionic Classes would probably have netted you more without needing to go for Archivist and “waste” levels. (+0.25)
Your Temporal Strike DC is low; DC17 isn't really up to snuff at the level you get it, and I'd have liked to have seen more. You seem to be able to cope DESPITE the SI. (-0.25)

Wutheh; 10.25 (2.5625) 10.5 Maths Error

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Originality; 4/5
Whoa. Wizard, I was not expecting. Human however, yes, and Archivist, as above, I stated, you used Archivist in a way which was progressed further by Mystic THEURGE; unique and entirely unexpected. The Wizard ACF's, such as Fighter Wizard (if any, a Conjuration focused specialist with the ability to teleport was more expected), also provide an unexpected use of Archivist entry; but with Human expected, that's capping your points. (+1).
Human bonus feat was used for qualification, and with a couple of “lesser” feats chosen, it's not apparently a grab for power. I like that, rather than it simply being “ooh, look, a free feat”. No bonus points, but just like to recognise it. (+/- 0)
Power; 3/5
Melee focus with the quarterstaff gives you a decent footprint; albeit a fairly fragile one, in melee. (+0.5)
I cannot credit you for your spellcasting; which is disappointing; 4th and 5th level spells are when Wizard's and Archivist's begin to break the game; while this does allow you flexibility, there's no mention whatsoever of what spells you choose. There's a difference between choosing Acid Splash or Detect Magic, for example. I cannot credit what I cannot see. Considering this is what would (in theoretical discussions) provide you with a ton of customizability to complete any needed task, by not including this, you're losing all of your points in power; scouting and utility options would have both normally been covered by the spells. (+/- 0).
Looking at the comparative power of an Archivist/Wizard Theurge, it looks like the SI was taken “because you had to”; another case of doing well DESPITE the SI; I'm not double dipping here; a comparative Wizard 5/Archivist 5/MT 10 being the logical progression would be able to, so i'm going to have to penalise that you could be comparing things like Polymorph Any Object, Irresistable Dance, Shadow Evocation, Limited Wish, Simulacrum, etc. (-0.5)
Elegance; 2.25/5 2.5
Please, when you're copy pasting, just post down which levels are taken; e.g Wizard 1, Wizard 2, etc. If anything it makes my life simpler, and if you want higher scores, putting in a little more effort to stop making the judge “grumpy” by having to do any thinking (we're all lazy at heart) is going to help your case. No penalty, just a heads up. (+/- 0).
Qualification penalties; Two Weapon Fighting requires a Dexterity of 15 – as you make use of Eilservs School and focus on using the magic staff to make it a viable combat focus, there is a fairly large penalty here. (-0.5).
You're a Human with a Favoured Class of Wizard; discounting it for multiclass penalties; you then take Archivist, and chop and change between the levels; this meant no penalties due (+0.25), but the choppy alternate progression leads me to question “why?”; and again, the choppy progression on the SI/Mystic Theurge (2:1, fair enough), I'm not entirely sure why (+/- 0).
Much of your power comes from having a Magical Staff – a) there's a fluff 'requirement' to Eilserv's school that isn't addressed, and b) it's reliant on your ability to get a staff with spells in – dependent on WBL situation or how the DM allocates his magic-marts, you could be left with a less than useful staff.. Otherwise it's “just” a staff; without a spell-list I cannot credit the use of an Archivist/Wizard for Greater Mighty Wallop+Greater Mighty Weapon+Spikes+Entangling Staff etc etc etc, which would increase your lethality in combat a huge amount. (-0.25).
UoSI 1/5
The low BAB of your other classes are made up for by the medium BAB of the class, giving you 3 Iteratives. Nicely done (+0.25).
Concentration wasn't maxed; yet you could have done – 10 ranks in Tumble, as opposed to 7 and 3 in Concentration, and I'm wondering why, especially when at that level, many uses of tumble can be substituted by spells. (-0.25)
I cannot see what the SI adds thematically to the build, let alone mechnically; there's no break down, or interation. (-0.5)
You progress to 8th level to take Temporal Strike; a decent cut point, if any; but a), you don't make use of the abilities up to then that I can see; and your DC is the lowest in competition (DC15). (-0.5)
The Psionics abilities aren't really used at all; you've not even got Call Weapon to summon a Quarterstaff to you should you be seperated from your main weapon. (-0.5)
No sign of being a monk. (-0.5)

Nola 12.25 (3.0625) 13 Maths Error

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Originality; 3.25/5
Saint! Which eats the LA? Hell yes.
Strongheart Halfling? Sorry, just as bad as a human, so capping point score.
Invisible Fist monk, expected. Swordsage, less so. Halfling TRIPPER? Not so much either. Nets you a minor bonus (+0.25)
Power; 3 3.75
SAD bonus, which Monk, Saint, Psionics and Zerth Cenobite all stack off it. (+0.25)
Combat potential is fantastic; a decent AC, and attack routine backed up by Maneuvers and some choice powers makes it able to hold its own, especially against Evil opponents. (+1).
Outside of combat; you have extremely limited scouting potential; low skill investment means you cannot hide and cannot see.
Utility is almost non-existant; jump and wall walker are all okay, until you realise that by the time you can jump 50ft gaps, your other party members have already got some form of flight. Only “okay” abilities for utility are Shadow Jaunt and Mountain Hammer; and even then there's nothing to really back them up so much; hence a penalty for that; unlike other builds which CAN change up their spell list etc, your options are strictly limited to a combat focus; you'll struggle to contribute outside of combat (-0.5)
Elegance; 2/5
You gain the Saint Template without properly explaining how you got it. Neither do you actually explain WHY it is a Saint, and what, outside of the +numbers it's useful to you. Assuming a DM will just give you such an RP heavy template as well is a massive assumption when it provides such huge bonuses. Having said that, you eat the LA (-0.75)
Swordsage; the unarmed variant is an Alternative option, not an actual “by RAW” ACF. However, it's often considered to be near enough that I'm not going to penalise for it; just want to make you aware. (+/- 0)
Strongheart Halfling which then takes extra bonus skills by burning a feat for negligible size bonuses? (-0.25).
No mitigation available for avoiding multiclass penalties. (+/- 0)
UoSI; 4/5
Temporal Strike; the arguable capstone, has a DC of 25 (your character level is separate from your ECL, which DOES include LA). (+0.25)
Monkliness; you have 15 explicit monk stacking levels, and 3 which with a favourable DM would stack; so we'll call that 18/20; not much more “monkly” than that; (+0.5).
The most useful abilities are called out and all have a part to play within combat. All 10 levels are taken as well - (+0.5)
Concentration; minimum taken to qualify. With a Swordsage would have expected some Diamond Mind to help you out with at least Fortitude saves. (-0.25).

Douglas; 13.5 14.5 Maths Error

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Originality; 3
Human and Archivist again, standard fair here. Capped points for human, Archivist not particularly used uniquely, but taken high enough for 3rd level spells. (+/-0).
Power 3.5 4.5 Maths Error
Combat allows action economy breakage (nice use of Extend Su), and maneuvers to take place. 3 Iteratives is decent enough; combined with Knowledge Devotion and Dark Knowledge together give you a nice amount of capability. Many of the spells are combat based. Shou Disciple's faster punching enhancement and Snap Kick blend well. (+1)
Outside of combat, scouting is no go (no Hide etc), but utility from Autohypnosis is pretty decent at helping you along with Knowledge Skills. (+0.5)
Elegance 2.75/5
Thesk is a former region, making the character setting dependent. No penalties in that, but between Telflamm destruction and the death of Tai Shing, and the nature of the Thesk survivors begs the question of how he got to these “tomes of knowledge”. (+/-0).
I disagree with the assertion you benefit from Monk levels (-0.5).
Multiclass penalties are avoided (+0.25).
Assuming Shadow Hand is Shadow Blade; please ensure that you've got important typo's like Feats correct! (+/- 0).
UoSI; 4.25/5
Concentration maxed (+0.25), but nothing keyed off it, when Swordsage was there.
Monkliness; Shou Disciple does well for the flavour, but doesn't mechanically stack, so half points. (so effectively 1/20 levels, rather than 2/20); zerth cenobite gives +5 (again, thematically, not mechanically), so 6/20; (+0.25)
All 10 levels are taken, along with pretty much a use for every ability. (+0.5).
The fluff seems to thematically make sense, I like that it flows well together (+0.25)

Orthagonel 12.75 (3.1875) = Honourable Mention 13.75 Maths Error

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Original 5/5
The first thing I think of for a time manipulating Prestige Class is a Gelatinous Cube. Naturally. Straight Monk entry as well, hell yes, expected yes, but at least it's not Invisible Fist. Think that's a Straight 5.
Power 2.25 3.25
Got to address that LA; sorry, it hurts. The RHD aren't as bad as they could have been; it's Dragon, but still, no class features. (-0.75)
In combat; you've got a decent BAB, Ooze Traits and Dragon Immunities, Natural Armour and Wis to AC. That means you can take on some pretty dangerous threats that don't rely on pure damage. (+0.75)
Utility; Flying with a decent speed can be used for anything. You can transport an entire party where ever you need to go from an early level, but it drops off as you go along (+0.25)
Scouting; your hide isn't much, but Transparent works well at an early level, but you've got a decent sensory suite thanks to Blindsight/Darkvision/Low light vision (+0.5)
Wasted feats and skill points; Jump is wasted with flight, along with the investment into Roof Jumper, making Balance wasted points. Open minded could be used elsewhere; such as with Martial Study to ramp up your Saves and investing into concentration (-0.5)
Elegance 1.75/5
Yes; you're an NPC. LA- +3, is LA-, not LA+3. But sod it, it's cool; but the RHD and LA make starting playing earlier than 4th level awkward. The main problem to being a PC is the Intelligence of 4, however, you don't really have too many tactics that are much more fly attack, fly attack, etc. No need to make use of fancy flanking, or anything, so that evens out. Throw in “a wizard did it to explain a race and you've got some issues (-0.5 in total).
Qualification issues; you've got two 1st level feats, both of which are required for Qualification. Losing either one stops qualification. While this would normally prevent qualification, a flaw would rectify that so I'll give it a point score to match (-1).
No Multiclass penalties (+0.25)
As an aside, I'd prefer to have the raw scores for saves, it saves me having to do work, which in turn keeps me in a better mood, and possibly more amenable to giving better scores.
UoSI 3.75
Monk is actually one of the things which makes this racial combination actually useable; and Zerth Cenobite is undeniably a better class than a straight monk. (+0.5)
All 10 levels taken and Abilities are all quantified and have an actual use; however, the low Wis score and LA means you have a fairly low Temporal Strike DC (0.75).
Concentration is taken to the minimum, and isn't supported. (-0.5)
The one problem I have with the monkliness is that you're actual monkliness, despite being advanced, outside of the faster movement and “body is a weapon”, you don't get as much use from it as normal; the Unarmed Strike is up against a natural attack routine. Would have been nice to see Ability Focus put up on the Temporal Strike (the idea of being engulfed by a slime, and then disappearing into the future is pretty cool) – it would have upped it to DC21 before items, which is a reasonable chance. However, the other monkly uses are required. (+/- 0). Also, this gets my Nomination for Honourable Mention.

Parmelk; 14.75

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Originality; 3.75/5
Soulknife? Quori Nightmare, chalk them up as unexpected. Kalashtar as well I expected due to its +1pp/level but unique so that's a wash, Monk was of course expected. (+0.75)
Power 4/5
Nice use of the Soulknife Substitution; along with Flowing Blade. Lovely little synergy that makes combat more palatable for a Soulknife/Monk. The rest of your feats and power selection with skills is dedicated towards combat, but you have a fun selection through the use of the tactical feats, keeping it more interesting then “I power attack for full”. (+1)
Although I didn't agree with the Tashalatora reading, it's available by RAW; with Monastic Training being a feat tax as well with no REAL benefit as a feat (although fair play for sticking to RAW), it's slightly wasted (-0.25).
Scouting; ignored in favour of focusing on other areas. (+/- 0)
Utility; Intimidate has its uses in socials, while Autohypnosis provides a nice little back up support character. (+0.25)
Elegance 3/5
For Saves etc, please just use the base scores in future. It makes it a lot easier to work out multiclassed saves.
Multiclassed Penalties aren't avoided, and Quori Nightmare is not taken through to completion, so no mitigation. (+/- 0)
No qualification issues spotted (+/- 0)
UoSI 4/5
Psionic Time Warrior of the Kalashtar, using his Mind Blade fits almost perfectly (+0.5).
Concentration maxed, although not much keys off it (+0.25).
All 10 levels are used, and the uses of the SI are quite important in your repertoir, with enough abilities to back you up once the number of uses are gone. (+0.25)

[Piggy Knowles]

Double judge attack!

Tri’ijin of Zerth’Ad’Vyn (10.5)

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ORIGINALITY (3.5)
Skarn monk is woefully underused, in my opinion, so it was good to see it here. Most of the rest of the build was expected, in particular Hidden Talent as an entry method into the SI, but still, that was a nice addition. Meldshaping tends to go hand in hand with both psionics and natural attacks, so that was not an unexpected choice, but I’m not going to actively penalize you for it.

POWER (2.5)
Adding pounce makes your monkish abilities a lot easier to swallow. You also have several alternative methods of attacking, so I’ll definitely give you a boost for that.

Calling synchronicity an “extra standard action” is just false. It’s useful, no doubt about it, but it only generates an extra standard action when combined with things like Linked Power, which this build lacks. Even combining it with Temporal Distillation doesn’t generate any extra actions for you beyond what Temporal Distillation already allows for.

I do worry a little bit about your vulnerability, especially as someone who will be seeing the front lines a lot. Fellmist Robe doesn’t provide its miss chance against adjacent enemies, and spellward shirt is really only useful at the lowest levels. With limited essentia and PP, you’re only really going to be keeping one soulmeld maxed at any given time, and your buffing will be unfortunately limited.

I also worry that you’re overestimating your abilities. Sphinx Claws don’t grant a bonus to grapple checks, as they are not Strength checks. You have moderate social skills but nothing plugged into them - you can get an OK bonus on a bluff or sense motive check, but not enough to carry you as a social character. Intimidate doesn’t do very much without access to ways to improve demoralizing. Your hide and move silently are nice once you add in chameleon, but without Darkstalker or some other way of avoiding alternative senses, you’re not even sneaking past a CR ⅓ guard dog. Your Shock Trooper tricks are limited by your low BAB and the fact that you are using them on natural attacks, so the highest bonus damage you’ll be looking at is +13 at ECL 20. Your two levels of Soul Manifester do NOT grant you access to Rapid Meldshaping, and only give you one additional chakra bind and no additional soulmelds by my count.

ELEGANCE (1.5)
There are some mechanical issues with the build:

First off, the skarn monk ACF gives up Improved Unarmed Strike. Among other things, this means you do not qualify for Scorpion’s Grasp.

Second, you do not qualify for Improved Bull Rush or Shock Trooper without the Power Attack feat, which you don’t take until after. You can re-order your feats to fix this, so I won’t give you a huge penalty on this end, but it’s still an issue (and means that you’re waiting until ECL 15 to actually have any Shock Trooper fun).

Third, monks do not get Intimidate as a class skill, and the skarn monk only grants it as a class skill for levels 1, 5 and 10. This means that your skill points are incorrect at level 3 - those two skill points spent would only give you a single rank in Intimidate, because you are buying them as cross-class skills. No major impact on the build, but it’s still one more thing that can cause a DM to look askance at your build.

I’m also not sure that the stark alignment change will fly at most tables. However, it seems to be mostly an issue of fluff rather than of mechanics (the only place where it matters is your 1/day incarnum radiance), so I’m not going to come down on you for it.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (3)
You make decent use of manifesting, increasing it with Soul Manifester and taking Azure Talent to help fix the low PP issue (although there is only so much this latter can do). I would have liked to see a little bit more focus, such as Psycarnum Infusion, but that’s still not bad. You also make a good case for taking it over, say, psychic warrior thanks to your monkly focus. I would have liked to see some better uses of the abilities (bonus actions are nice, but you don’t get any more out of them than any other character), and maybe a way to eke something out of the required Concentration, but you still do alright here. As I've mentioned with other builds, though, I'm having trouble seeing where this is a superior choice to, say, Psionic Fist/Fist of Zuoken.

Nick Snarespan (16.5)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (4.5)
The roguish aspect was unexpected, but works well. Psychic rogue makes a surprisingly decent lead-in despite the Wisdom focus of the PrC. Trapsmith was also unexpected. And you actually used Sun School for something other than mini-shadowpouncing! That’s exciting. Using it to effectively bull rush your enemies into traps is a nice touch. The only really expected element was Tashalatora, which I thought we’d see a lot more of. You get a minor ding for that, but overall this build felt fresh.

POWER (4)
Darkstalker, chameleon, compression and max stealth skills make you an excellent scout, and are boosted even further by your Trapsmith spells. Tashalatora alongside Zerth Cenobite is also a nice way to supercharge your monk abilities. Your traps give you some additional control elements to your build, and your spells add a ton of utility. Plus, your mini-shadowpouncing is a nice way to stay mobile and attack when necessary.

I guess the biggest downside is that as far as actual damage goes, you’re pretty far behind the curve compared to a rogue or a more melee-focused monk, with below average BAB and only minor sources of bonus damage, plus a bad case of MADness. I would have liked to see something like Craven to boost damage a bit, or even something like Leading the Charge to use alongside psionic lion’s charge. Damage isn’t your primary focus, so this isn’t as big of a hit as it would be if you didn’t have your other tricks, but it’s still a concern.

ELEGANCE (4)
The build felt fresh and clean, with no rules concerns that I was able to find. You shouldn’t have a problem taking this build to most tables. The only potential issue is whether a DM will raise eyebrows at double-dipping via Tashalatora (which was explicitly approved by the chairman, and works by RAW to boot).

What prevents you from getting full points here is that you do not qualify for Weapon Finesse at level 1. Easy enough to fix by rearranging feat selection, but it's enough of an issue to warrant a ding.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (4)
Tashalatora + Zerth Cenobite is a nice way to play catch-up with your monk abilities while still fitting in five levels of Trapsmith, so that’s a nice touch. (Again, I expected to see a lot more of that!) You get decent benefit out of the psionic aspect of the class, with much better PP than the class itself gives you, and I like the idea of using the extra actions it provides to set a trap and then push an enemy into it. Little touches like that make me think that you're actually taking Zerth Cenobite because it helps your build, not because it's required for the competition.

I guess my biggest issue, though, is that I have a difficult time seeing how you don’t benefit more from staying in psychic rogue. Your monk abilities would be somewhat lower but still solid thanks to Tashalatora, you’d be significantly less MAD, and you’d have a passel of additional abilities that would tie in better with your build’s MO. So once again we miss out on full points, although you still do well.

Teoldrin Timeweaver (10.5)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (3)
As I’ve mentioned in previous entries, I expected incarnum to be popular here because of natural synergy with both psionics and monkliness. You're not getting penalized for it, but it keeps you from getting great bonuses for it either. Hidden Talent was also what I expected would be the most common lead-in. So on that front, there’s really not much new. Gloom Razor focus was neat, although I would have liked to see more done with it (see Power). This build isn't exactly the standard Zerth Cenobite, but it also doesn't really do anything new or unexpected, either.

POWER (2.5)
Psycarnum Infusion plus Azure Talent go a long way toward fixing the PP issues of the Zerth Cenobite, and help you keep your soulmelds maxed to boot. The maneuvers do a good job of giving you some additional abilities every encounter as well.

On the negative side of things, you’re hampered by the low manifester level of the Zerth Cenobite - for example, you reference using Psionic Open Chakra to access high level chakras, but you can only use it to open your arms/brow/shoulders bind, since you don’t have a high enough ML to augment it up to the waist or throat chakra.

Also, I feel like I’m a bit of a broken record in this regards, but stealth without Darkstalker or some other way of avoiding alternate senses is unfortunately a loser’s game.

Finally, after going over your build I’m still at a loss as to why you went archivist over monk as a way to enter the SI. You don’t really seem to be taking advantage of what archivist offers you - you mention some limited buffing, but with only four levels, it’s not going to be as good even as what you get from the SI, and just serves to delay entry, put a hamper on your melee/stealth abilities, and lower your BAB and ability scores.

(Oh, and I didn’t deduct for this, but you mention Diadem of Purelight as a useful chakra bind. Keep in mind that it negates ALL concealment in an area, including your own - meaning it can cancel out your bonuses and prevent Gloom Razor from working properly!)

ELEGANCE (2.5)
A couple of issues - nothing too serious, but they’re there. First, swordsage specifically states you must select a first level stance when you take its first level, meaning you cannot start with Assassin’s Stance as your first stance even if you meet the IL requirements for it. Second, Elder Mountain Hammer requires two Stone Dragon maneuvers, and you only have one.

As an aside, I would have liked to see some mention of the archivist’s spell selection - if not a complete prayerbook, than at least some indication of some of the spells you’re looking for.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (2.5)
I liked seeing Temporal Distillation as a method of recovering maneuvers - although I would have liked it even more with something like Adaptive Style, to shift maneuvers on the fly. You do take advantage of your PP and powers as well, so I’ll give you a boost for that.

That being said… I’m having a lot of trouble seeing what this SI really does for you. I mean, yes, everyone can benefit from occasional bonuses to saves and additional actions, but it seems notably worse for your build than taking similar levels in psychic warrior, war mind, etc. I know this is a common problem across this round, and this was a tough ingredient, but it really feels like there are better choices for your build than Zerth Cenobite. The fact that you don’t take the build until 9th level and don’t complete it until 20th, when many of the benefits it gives you could be reproduced by magic items well within your WBL, makes it even harder to swallow.

Wutheh (11)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (4.5)
Eilservs School is interesting, and something I don’t see much even on a staff fighter. Wandstrike is another rarity. I also didn’t really expect to see a wizardly focus, so that’s something new. Hidden Talent was expected as the easiest entry into the SI, however, so you do get a ding for that.

POWER (2.5)
Hrm. While you do some interesting things, you’re sort of caught in the odd limbo of a lot of low level abilities over the course of twenty levels. You get 5th-level arcane and divine spells, and 4th-level powers, but your triple-focus means that you’re significantly behind most standard characters for the majority of your career. Mystic Theurges already have issues with this, and by adding in psionics as well, this is doubly true for you. You get some flexibility from your casting, but compared to anyone else who was even slightly more focused, you lag well behind.

You also seem to be all over the place in terms of abilities. Nymph’s Kiss would imply a skill monkey, but you don’t really support that with future levels. You build yourself up as a staff fighter, but then as your capstone feat you take Wandstrike instead. Again, the issue here is a lack of focus, and I worry that the lack of focus here is crippling.

On the good side, I do like that you did at least attempt to leverage your archivist abilities into mechanical bonuses, taking Knowledge Devotion and improving them, rather than just nabbing Still Mind and hopping out.

ELEGANCE (3)
Since I dinged you for lack of focus under Power, I won’t hit you again for it here in elegance. Still, I can’t give you points for sticking to a theme, as you really don’t. You don’t have the Dex necessary to take TWF, which in turn hampers your qualification for Eilservs School. Also, this is minor, but you never address what spells you are going for with archivist or what familiar you take. All in all, while there’s nothing too terribly wrong with your elegance, there is also nothing too great with it, either.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (1)
I am really having a hard time seeing why you bothered with the SI at all. There is no addressing of its abilities in the least, and it just pulls you away from your other main schticks. It neither improves your wizard/archivist casting nor does it improve your abilities as an Eilservs staff fighter. Not only do you fail to complete the SI, but the levels you do take in it seem to make your build actively worse.

Nola Bramblethorn (14)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (4)
Saint was unexpected, and shadow sun ninja was a nice touch. Going after the underfoot combat style was also a fresh direction. Very nice. Not too much to say on this end beyond that, but still, you do well here.

POWER (3)
Well, the saint template does go a long way toward helping you in combat, both on the offensive and defensive side of things. You’re still a little limited by your monkly focus, but you put out above-average figures and can deal with problems that your average monk otherwise wouldn’t, so that’s a plus. Against larger, grounded enemies in particular you’ve got some nice options.

On the other hand, you’re a bit too narrowly focused for my tastes. Many of your tricks and tactics are heavily dependent on the enemies you fight, and while you’re certainly more versatile than your average monk, I would argue that you still have fewer options than if you had, say, invested more into your swordsage side. You can contribute in most combat encounters, but you're not going to be making waves unless you're fighting your ideal enemies, and you're going to be pretty limited outside of combat.

ELEGANCE (3)
Nothing too bad here. Overall your build has a theme and sticks to it. There are just a few negatives. Grabbing the saint template mid-campaign seems a bit DM-dependant, and won’t be allowed at all tables, but it’s only a minor ding. The Shadow Sun Ninja seems particularly clunky in your build. I love SSN, and overall don’t tend to penalize dips, but here it seems to stick out as compared to the rest of your build. Also, from what I can tell, you used your SSN level to nab the Mountain Hammer maneuver, but the SSN can only pull new maneuvers known from the Shadow Hand or Setting Sun disciplines.

All of these seem to be issues that could be resolved with a little bit of cleaning up, so I’ll call it a wash and move on.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (4)
I was all set to say that the build would do better by focusing on swordsage and/or SSN, and to some extent that’s true, but in reviewing things a second time I do think you do alright here. You definitely take advantage of the monkly side of the SI, and access to compression significantly aids your giant-killing style of fighting. I also like the use of Temporal Distillation to enter an opponent’s square, setting them up for Underfoot Combat. While you haven’t completely blown me away with how perfect this ingredient is for your build, I’m inclined to score you well here.

Douglas Yangtze (9.5)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (2.5)
Ah, Hidden Talent rears its beautiful head once more. I thought there was a good chance I’d see this on just about every build, and I wasn’t disappointed. Everything here is more or less what you’d expect. I’m not going to give you a penalty for archivist, as either it or monk were pretty much required, but I’m not going to give a boost for it either. However, nothing else here particularly stands out. Shou Disciple and swordsage are common enough sights any time monk-like builds are required, and there is nothing else particularly new or exciting here.

POWER (2.5)
As with Teoldrin Timeweaver, you went with archivist over monk, but then you ended up building something that just acted like a monk anyhow. The closest you come to actually taking advantage of your archivist side was the use of Knowledge Devotion, and I’ll admit that’s nice - but in general, I feel like you would have done better just sticking with a monk dip. If nothing else, it would have given you two extra levels to feed to swordsage.

On the melee side of things, you’re a low-strength fighter with no Weapon Finesse - why you took Shadow Blade but not Weapon Finesse is a mystery to me. Knowledge Devotion and Snap Kick help to make up for low BAB, and maneuvers help, but I still have trouble seeing how this build will contribute level-appropriate damage in most encounters. Your manifesting helps a little, but expansion is only so-so without any other combat maneuvers to take advantage (it boosts damage somewhat, but you’re going to have issues hitting thanks to low Strength and size penalties).

Your archivist DOES give you some additional utility, allowing you to dispel or shatter when necessary, and adding in a couple of debuffs and healing options, although here your low caster level hurts you, especially when it comes to dispelling. I’ll add in a boost for that, but it’s not as high as it could be if you had focused on this aspect a little bit more.

I like the temporal distillation trick, but I can’t give you points for it here because it doesn’t work (see my comments in Elegance).

ELEGANCE (2.5)
There are some neat ideas here, but there are also some mechanical issues.

Unfortunately, Extend Supernatural Ability doesn’t actually work with temporal distillation. Temporal distillation doesn’t actually have a duration; it just grants you an additional action. Extending it won’t give you multiple actions. It’s a clever idea, but it just doesn’t work as written.

Zerth Cenobite says that it stacks with monk levels for progressing unarmed damage. However, it does not say that it stacks with Shou Disciple. You could argue that both stack on top of your zero monk levels (0+2+10=12), but the problem is, Shou Disciple gives you an either/or option - if you have monk levels, it progresses your monk’s unarmed strike damage, but if you do not, then it has its own unarmed damage progression. This is as the monk’s unarmed strike, but it is not actually a monk’s unarmed strike. Since you don’t have monk levels, you instead get the Shou Disciple progression, which does not stack with Zerth Cenobite. If I were DM I’d probably houserule it to work in your favor, because it SHOULD work, but I still have to give you a small penalty for it.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (2)
I appreciate your breakdown of class features, but honestly almost none of the things you’ve mentioned explain why the secret ingredient is good for YOUR build, with the exception of temporal distillation to use alongside extend. That same list could apply to just about any character anywhere.

You do focus on unarmed strike, and even though the extended temporal distillation doesn’t work, it’s at least an attempt at leveraging more out of the SI’s abilities. However, everything else just feels tacked on. Sticking with just about anything else that progressed your unarmed damage would have worked just as well, if not better. I'll give you a small bonus for those two, but they don't outweigh the negative, unfortunately.

Orthagonel Velodrake (10.5)

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (5)
Well, I did not expect a monk that roof-jumps on top of enemies, engulfing and paralyzing them. That is certainly something that is safe to say. Usually the cute creature builds don’t get much in originality from me, since nine times out of ten it’s a fun creature choice but nothing really interesting beyond that, but this one is actually well done (minus the fact that it’s illegal).

POWER (3.5)
You’re a flying, acid breathing gelatinous cube who jumps on and engulfs his enemies. I’d call it a one-trick pony, but honestly it’s more useful than most of what monk would give you, so that’s something. If any DM actually let you sit down at her table with this monstrosity, you’d be able to do alright. It’s not all gravy, though - you’re clunky at the low levels in particular, and you’ll have particularly low HP. You’re also somewhat reliant on terrain to actually be effective in combat. Still, for a near-unplayable monk with lots of LA, you do alright here.

ELEGANCE (1 - minimum score)
You’re playing an unplayable character. I mean literally unplayable - even beyond the fact that you’re stretching the limits on inherited templates and how they can be applied, gelatinous cube does not have a level adjustment, so it is not a suitable base creature for a character. Sentry ooze providing an intelligence score doesn’t suddenly make it one. It’s a fun build, but I can’t do anything beyond give you a minimum score in elegance here. There are some other issues here as well (Hidden Talent can only be taken at first level, for example), but as you’re already eating a minimum score, there isn’t much else to say about this one.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (1 - minimum score)
You fail to qualify for the secret ingredient, as you do not qualify for Hidden Talent. Therefore, I have to give a minimum score in this category as well.

Parmelk (15) *HONORABLE MENTION*

Spoiler

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ORIGINALITY (5)
This is probably the freshest build of the bunch (except for maybe the cube ). Kalashtar is a nice entry point, and a wonderful break from the sea of Hidden Talent qualifications I’d expected. Soulknife with Soulblade Warrior/Kalashtar Thoughtshifter and Quori Nightmare just really take it in a completely different direction than I’d expected.

POWER (2)
Unfortunately, as cool as this build is, and as much as it tries to make up for the shortcomings of both monks and soulknives, you’re still left with two classes that just don’t have much oomph. You’re also kind of split between the two - while you can deliver stuns and flurry with your mind blade, Zerth Cenobite explicitly doesn’t progress stunning or flurry of blows. Your various feat chocies are flavorful but don’t really provide enough impact to make up for this - for example, a -1 to various checks for a single enemy at 15th level (and mind-affecting/fear based to boot) is really pretty negligible. The Thoughtshifter and Psychic Warfare tactical feats provide some fun new options, but even they aren’t enough to keep you competitive with even a well-built monk who focuses on unarmed damage. You also more or less throw a feat away by taking Monastic Training - I was all excited to see Tashalatora for the fun double-dipping it gets alongside Zerth Cenobite, but it never came.

You do get a boost for your psionic side, though - kalashtar and improving ML via Quori Nightmare go a long way toward fixing the PP problem Zerth Cenobites normally face.

And while Quori Nightmare is a very fun class, taking it at the level you do diminishes its usefulness, since you will have laughably low save DCs (maxing out at 14+Cha at ECL 20 on a build that all but dumps Cha), and most of its abilities are mind-affecting.

I feel bad giving this such a low power score, because I think it’s a super fun build, but unfortunately I have trouble seeing this contribute to ECL-appropriate encounters effectively in most parties.

ELEGANCE (4.5)
You’ve got a straightforward and thematic build, with no real mechanical issues. The flavor all fits together well and matches the crunch to boot. Very nice.

My only complaint (and it’s a minor one) is that you didn’t actually list your powers chosen anywhere, and cluttered your table up a bit. I was able to piece together your power choices from the level by level snapshots, but it would have made things a lot easier to read if you had moved PP and powers chosen to a separate table.

USE OF THE SECRET INGREDIENT (3.5)
Flavor-wise, this build feels like a Zerth Cenobite, in a way that is hard to explain. However, flavor is nice, but I base the bulk of my scoring in this category on what’s actually represented in your build table and play notes.

On that side, you do get a ton of extra use out of your psionic side, and some use out of the monk abilities. I would have liked to see Tashalatora to take it even further, but still, you get a decent boost for that aspect. However, there is some conflict of abilities - in particular, you don’t progress abilities such as flurry or stunning fist that should be even more valuable to you based on your build choices.

Beyond the flavor and your psionics, though, you don’t really do much. Everyone enjoys extra actions or re-rolls, but your build doesn’t really get any extra use out of them than anyone else. Frankly, I think this would have done much better as a Psionic Fist/Fist of Zuoken, since you would have had considerably more PP and powers known, and would have hit fifth level powers to boot.

On my first run-through of the builds and notes I’d jotted down, I called this a wash - you take advantage of some features of the SI, but fail to demonstrate to me why this ingredient in particular is required for your build, compared to other options. However, on reading this over again, you really do get a lot out of the psionic side, more so than most of the other builds here, and while I still maintain that Psionic Fist would be a better option for you, I’ll go ahead and toss in an extra half point.

[Irk]

Thanks for judging, Vaz and Piggy!

[yougi]

I see a strong reverse correlation between the number of judges and the number of participants.

[WhamBamSam]

Hooray, more judges! And with new judges there must come a new table.

{table=head]Character|Tim Proctor|relytdan|Kesnit|Vaz|Piggy Knowles|Total
Nick Snarespan|17.53|13.5|14|16.5|16.5|78.03
Parmelk|17.20|14.75|13.5|14.75|15|75.2
Nola Bramblethorn|17.03|13.25|13.5|12.25|14|70.03
Douglas Yangtze|16.5|13.25|11.5|13.5|9.5|64.25
Teoldrin Timeweaver|14.92|14.25|11.5|12.75|10.5|63.92
Tri'ijin|15.05|11|12|13.25|10.5|61.8
Orthagonel Velodrake|14.2|6.5|13|12.75|10.5|56.95
Wutheh|13.98|11|10.5|10.25|11|56.73
[/table]

EDIT: Fixed in accordance with Piggy's correction.

[Piggy Knowles]

Hey, all. Sorry to change things up a bit, but...

Regarding Douglas Yangtze, in my initial notes, I had a -.5 jotted down next to the two mechanical issues for Elegance. When I typed it up in the judging format, I accidentally copied that penalty over twice. As a result, I realize that I gave Douglas Yangtze a -1 penalty when I had intended to only give a -.5 penalty.

Sorry about that! I usually try to catch things like that before posting my scores. Douglas Yangtze's elegance score should actually be 2.5, not 2. This changes his total in my judging to 9.5. I'm editing my original post to account for that. It'll change the tables as well.

[Sian]

so ... when are we going to see the disputes that no doubt, is going to be some of?

[Vaz]

Possibly whenever the chairman gets online to post them. Considering that there were a couple of judgings at the same time, the Kuulv is likely giving everyone time to get their issues (it has been, what 24 hours?) written and PM'd to him. There's plenty of time for the judgings and scores to be disputed; we have until Tuesday midnight; that's 53 hours away.

Edit; Maths errors

[Sian]

53hours (as its midnight between Tuesday and Wednesday and not Monday/Tuesday that the Deadline is), but the question i'm wondering is that i've seen the chairman have been online a few hours ago, where there had already been quite some time for disputes comming in

[Amphetryon]

53hours (as its midnight between Tuesday and Wednesday and not Monday/Tuesday that the Deadline is), but the question i'm wondering is that i've seen the chairman have been online a few hours ago, where there had already been quite some time for disputes comming in

Possible reasons for no disputes yet include, but are not limited to:

1. Contestants are more likely to be online during the week, when school and/or work provides a reason to be online, versus the weekend where folks may prefer to spend time with friends/family.

2. Contestants may feel their disputes would be echoes of disputes to earlier scores, and are waiting to see if judges read prior disputes and consider them for their own scoring rubrics.

3. Contestants may have run some rudimentary calculations to determine if their disputes were likely to change final standings significantly enough to warrant submitting a dispute.

4. Contestants happened to send their disputes in to the Chairman after he signed off the most recent time you noted his presence on the forums.

[WhamBamSam]

Kuul also might want to get out all the disputes at once, and be waiting through the weekend for that reason.

I'm sure they'll be posted with enough time for the judges to respond before the deadline.

Also, Piggy, your score for Orthagonel appears to add up to 10.5 not 9.5.

[Piggy Knowles]

Also, Piggy, your score for Orthagonel appears to add up to 10.5 not 9.5.

Whoops, you are absolutely correct. Fixing now.

Also, regarding why disputes haven't been posted... while I can't speak for the chairman, I know that the majority of the time I'm shown as "active," I'm actually just checking the boards on my phone. It's enough to read things or maybe make a small comment or two, but certainly not enough to cut and paste disputes. It's possible that he showed up as active today but wasn't actually in a position to post anything.

The chairman's been pretty consistently good about making sure the disputes do get posted, and I'm sure he'll do so with enough time for Vaz and myself to respond before the next contest gets going.

[Amphetryon]

Speaking of the next contest, I'm appalled at the lack of speculation for the next SI.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've resigned myself to the fact that Kuulvheysoon is a cruel master and will probably dangle Thief of Life or Eye of Gruumsh as a potential ingredient without ever actually selecting either. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess something that hasn't been suggested in a while: Beast Heart Adept.

[Sian]

given that the last 3 have been Black Flame Zealot (Rogue/Cleric), Anointed Knight (Fighter'ish) and this, i'd guess something Arcane'ish ... Blood Magus?

[The Viscount]

Come on, GGS! Something good would be appreciated, though.

[Amphetryon]

given that the last 3 have been Black Flame Zealot (Rogue/Cleric), Anointed Knight (Fighter'ish) and this, i'd guess something Arcane'ish ... Blood Magus?

I'm guessing it would be a half-caster or less, instead.

[Vaz]

Come on, GGS! Something good would be appreciated, though.

Gyes.

As ever, nominations for Slime Lord.

[Tim Proctor]

Berserk from CD or DD, can't remember which one but this month is Ragnarok.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Mainly, it's because I hate posting single disputes unless I can avoid it. And here we are!

Dispute for Kesnit
Thank you for judging and taking time to look at all of our builds.

The only thing I can dispute (since it is the only thing written about it) is the comment about the Shou Disciple being "tacked on." The choice of Shou Disciple is actually pretty integral to how the build works in its entirety--I had hoped the showcase explained how so. Shou Disciple gets to use its Monk abilities while still wearing light armor. The other Monk entrants cannot do this. I admit that most builds on the internet use Shou Disciple to get the martial flurry ability but since Douglas is only using his fists, it was not necessary to take all five levels.

First off thanks to all the judges for your time. Below are my questions.

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Originality
Feats +0.3, -0.3 Hidden Talent -0.15 Knowledge Devotion. +0.15 ea. Weapon Focus, Combat Casting, Somatic Weaponry, Eilserv School, Wandstrike

While I can understand the penalty for Knowledge Devotion, the hefty penalty on Hidden Talent doesn't sit right. It to penalize anyone who didn't build around a psionic race or class for the SI, so it almost feels like there no winning. I either go for something expected, or get penalized for getting one of the few workarounds for not having a psionics base.

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Originality
Offense +0.25, +0.25 damage is okay, 0 Init mod +2. Please let me know if I'm not understanding something here, cause I'd like to change this.

I'm confused by what your asking for here o.O' Please clarify so I can respond.

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Elegance
Failure to Qualify -0.5, Two-Weapon Fighting requires a dex of 15 only have 14 which would also impact your qualification of Eilservs School.

Whoops! You are indeed correct. I'm so used to grabbing that for my rogue builds which are high dex I didn't even pay attention for that qualification.

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Originality
Class +.5 Wizard and Mystic Theurge
Race/Template -0.375 Human
Feats +0.3, -0.3 Hidden Talent -0.15 Knowledge Devotion. +0.15 ea. Weapon Focus, Combat Casting, Somatic Weaponry, Eilserv School, Wandstrike
Skills 0, no skills over 20
Total 3.43

Power
Offense +0.25, +0.25 damage is okay, 0 Init mod +2. Please let me know if I'm not understanding something here, cause I'd like to change this.
Defense 0, weak defense low HP, no armor, no compounding AC bonuses, etc.
Versatility +0.5, +0.25 ea. Spells, Knowledge
Total 3.75

Elegance
Failure to Qualify -0.5, Two-Weapon Fighting requires a dex of 15 only have 14 which would also impact your qualification of Eilservs School.
Levels +1.3, +0.5 Mystic Theruge 5, +0.8 Zerth Cenobite 8
Other 0, no issues found
Total 4.05

UotSI
Psionics -0.25 you have the minimum amount to qualify and don't really expound on it.

Monkliness -0.5, you don't have any monk levels

Time Manipulation -0.25, you get the class features but don't add anything to it. I would have liked to see what spells you picked as those could have helped this area a lot.

Psionics. I don't expound much on my psionic capabilities, but I feel that those I do grab either enhance my class abilities such as Hustle giving me an extra move action, or my survivability, via increased armor, or damage transfer.

Monkliness: Granted, I didn't grab any levels of Monk, but instead made a caster who beats people up with a staff, a weapon even depicted in the PHB as a standard for monks. Also helps in my opinion that I use said staff for casting spells as well as attacking thanks to Somatic Weaponry meaning I'm always ready at any range.

Time Manipulation:
Again going to point to Hustle here as helping out on that regard. It gives me an extra move action to play with for a swift activation. As for my spells, well I theoretically have access to every 5th level and lower Divine spell, and every 4th level and lower Arcane spell because of my classes, sans Evil descriptor for being Exalted. I just have to prepare the ones I intend to use for the day.

Kesnit:

Could you perhaps elaborate on your scores a little? It seems fairly sparse with little reasoning for the scores. I need something a bit meatier to be able to defend my self or clarify missed points.

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- 0 presentation - I felt your background was lacking, while you have some information in your level writeup you do not have all the level writeups and what you have is a bit long

Relatively minor point and not seeking adjustment. If I read the rules for the IC correctly while we are encouraged to have additional write ups, we are only required to have have one for level 20.

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3 Elegance
+.25 questionable rules interpretations - while I will question a few things, I will not give a deduction nor full bonus for it

Could you please elaborate which rules are in question? I do believe I avoided any questionable rules interpretations, but would appreciate any brought to light if I am indeed mistaken.

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2.75 Originality
-.25 - race things I expected - yes human was expected and taken by a few chefs
- 0 - classes or Prc I expected - of the 2 routes that I found into the SI, +.5 Archivist was the least expected, no one else thought to use wizard or thurge
- 0 build doing something interesting - I did not find enough here to warrent a bonus
- 0 presentation - I felt your background was lacking, while you have some information in your level writeup you do not have all the level writeups and what you have is a bit long

3.5 Power
+.25 versatility - the build has a few options to it
- 0 role presented by the SI - i feel that it can do things along the lines that I see for the SI but not enough to warrent a bonus
-.25 self-sufficiency - I feel that the character while it would do okay in a melee and has a few other tricks to help it out, I feel that it still would need some additional help from others
+.5 dependancy of items - the build does not use items

3 Elegance
-.25 class dips - your build sees deductions for the class dip
+.25 questionable rules interpretations - while I will question a few things, I will not give a deduction nor full bonus for it
+.5 qualify's or not for non-SI Class's & or PRC's - I did not see anything here
-.5 qualify's or not for non-SI feats and things - Two-Weapon Fighting requires a dex of 15, Eilservs School Prerequisite Weapon Focus (PH) ( (quarterstaff)) , Two-Weapon Fighting (PH) , Spellcraft 2 ranks, Base attack bonus +6

1.75 Use of the Secret Ingredient
-.5 taken at the earliest level - level 10 SI is entered but not as early as it could have been(Skills: Concentration 9 ranks- lvl 6,Base Attack Bonus: +4-lvl 4) =level 7 as the first level the SI can be taken
-.25 make use of all the SI abilities - you did not take the last 2 levels of the SI

Entry was taken at the earliest feasible level for a caster build A full Archivist build would be incapable of entering the SI until level 13. By Multiclassing in Wizard and Mystic Theruge I was able to enhance my caster chassis while entering three levels earlier than what would be possible for a single class caster.

Indeed I did skip out on the last two levels, however this was because I felt the class was better served by gaining an additional level of arcane and diving spellcasting than by gaining a free full round action. To my understanding most spells have a cast time of a standard action.

Vaz:

Frankly i feels that you hit quite heavy for the saint, as I not only eat the LA, i also qualify for all the templates mechanical check points as noted under Sainthood in an earlier chapter of BoED

Power score seems to be miscalcuated ... the scores you list suggest that it should be 3.75 instead of 3

It's a Saint in the fact that its a wandering defender of the halfling realm from incursions from evil (monsterous) humanoids. ... and Saint while underpriced for Wisdom SAD's, is hardly stupidly strong held up against other stuff that you can do with templates (Feral?, Dark?) ... I only play to its strengths to plant Saint onto a Wisdom SAD character.

As for Unarmed Swordsage not 'really' existing, that's easily fixable with a Monks Belt or similar, and then the Swordsage could be a normal Swordsage without changes

Nymphs Kiss, which probably is the one you're harping about, is mainly taken for the fact that its Exalted (hence counting for the prerequsite 3 Exalted feats that Saints need)

Piggy Knowles:

Power:
not sure i'd call it to dependent on my opponents that i'm effective against everything size Medium or larger given that Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk + Compression makes me able to either Trip or attack everything that size or above as flatfooted. The Bonus against evil creatures (specially Outsider and Undead) is just nice bonuses focusing towards looking out for certain types of enemies, not a dependent core part of the build

Elegance:
Given as the Saint template explicitly demands that you qualify for Sainthood (mechanicly speaking 3 Exalted Feats and over level 6) its rather unfair to bash it for taking it in the middle of the build ...

SSN is used to push back the Stance gained on Swordsage 2 so I Had a high enough Initiator level to grab Giant Killing Style ... that i fuzzed up the order of which the maneuvers were taking (hardly critical) is to be blamed on me missing the specification in the class

Vaz: Orthagonel's Power, should this be 3.25 or 2.25?

Mr. Knowles: Orthagonel's total, 5 + 3.5 + 1 + 1 = 10.5?

And Vaz, a few math questions for you -

• Nick's Elegance may be off by 0.25, I'm getting 3.25?
• Wutheth's Elegance may be off by 0.25, I'm getting 2.5?
• Nola's Power should be 3.75?
• Douglas's Power should be 4.5?

[Tim Proctor]

@Wutheh

Thanks for competing.

Regarding psionics/hidden talent, it may be a damned if you do damned if you don't issue, but there were a few competitors that achieved points here without penalty. The majority of penalty was because nearly 40% of competitors went this route.

Regarding power, I'm asking if I made a mistake because as it seems your character is near useless around level 20. Even with the spam actions tricks (hustle, distillation, etc.) I see your character having a very hard time taking down a Balor. Which nearly every other competitor can instagib.

UotSI, I'm looking for things that competitors did to add on to the SI, feats, maxed skills, etc. I feel that your build was a MT with the SI thrown on. If this were an actual IC competition and its battle puff pastry I'd equate this to you making a fried chicken wrapped in puff pastry.

[Piggy Knowles]

Re: Nola Bramblethorn,

Thanks for responding, and for entering.

POWER: I think I may have been unclear in my comments on power. I was trying to get across that against your ideal enemies (ie, evil enemies of the proper size who are vulnerable to or care about tripping) you've got some nice tricks, but beyond those tricks your build is limited in scope. I've reviewed the build again, but I still believe a 3 is a fair score in Nola's instance. To reiterate what I wrote in my judging: "You can contribute in most combat encounters, but you're not going to be making waves unless you're fighting your ideal enemies, and you're going to be pretty limited outside of combat."

ELEGANCE: My complaint wasn't that gaining the saint template mid-campaign was illegal or unexpected, but that it was DM-dependent. The saint template is basically a reward for outstanding good deeds - a reward with some qualifications but a DM reward nevertheless. As for the other errors, as I said, they're issues that could be resolved with a little bit of cleaning up. But between them and the reliance on the saint template, I didn't feel comfortable giving you more than a 3 there.

Score stands in both instances.

Re: Orthagonel,

Yes, it was an arithmetic error. It has been fixed in the original post.

EDIT: I realize I never actually posted my judging criteria back when I mentioned I might judge. This might clarify some of my scoring choices. I apologize for not posting it earlier.

My judging criteria:

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In each category, I'm adding what I consider a "baseline build" - a build that, by my rubric, should get a 3.

Originality

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Let me preface this section by saying that I don't think originality is wholly contingent upon choice of class. Two builds can have the exact same class levels, and yet end up going in completely different directions. Choice of class DOES matter, but I'm more interested in what your build actually does.

I also will not penalize you just because someone else has chosen the same class as you. If you submit something that I find unexpected, I'll score it high even if the next person has the exact same build. But if you submit an entry that I consider standard or expected, don't expect a lot of points even if no one else went that direction.

So what will gain you points? Use the abilities you have in fresh and interesting ways. Surprise me. Show me new combinations that I've never seen before. Meanwhile, using well-known builds will cause you to lose points.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that steers clear of known cheese and standard build elements, but doesn't necessarily make me sit up and go "wow." Builds that involve new combinations or focus on unexpected elements will score higher here, while builds that utilize known cheese or that are pretty much stock builds will score lower.

Power

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There are two questions that will define how I rate a build's power. They are...

(1) How good is your build at its intended role?
(2) Will you stay relevant if your main "trick" does not work?

I don't expect every build to have 9th-level casting or manifesting, or to be able to bring the universe to its knees. However, if your build has a specific role or function, I expect you to be at least adequate at it. And if your build is a one-trick pony, it had better be a pretty good trick. I will deduct points if you can't function outside of a very limited set of parameters.

I'll also be looking for obvious ways your build could be improved (other than the most obvious "take fewer levels of the Secret Ingredient"). There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a little power for flavor, but if a choice makes you worse at your role, I will penalize for it. Just hope you make up the points in elegance or originality, I guess...

Finally, I don't plan to grade on a curve. Even if this is a weak ingredient, don't expect full points in Power if you've managed to just barely become adequate. Everyone's got the same ingredient to work with, after all.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that can meaningfully contribute to a party in most CR-appropriate encounters. Builds that can't, either because their overall power is too low or because they only function in very specific situations, will score lower here. Builds that are particularly proficient or useful, or that can meaningfully contribute even in over-CR'd encounters, will score higher.

Elegance

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Obscurity or using multitude of sources doesn't bother me, but for the love of Pelor, please cite your work! I am very familiar with the system, but I like to have the books in front of me when I'm reviewing a build. I also don't like too much mixing of setting-specific material. (Note that just because a class or feat appears in a setting book doesn't mean that I will consider it setting-specific; I'm referring to things like regional feats, feats and classes that involve certain setting-specific orders, etc.)

Now that that's out of the way... I don't mind dips, as long as they are reasonable and make sense. However, I will not ignore the "fluff" requirements of a class. If a prestige class requires you to be a member of the Wizards of the Unseen University and your build glosses over that requirement, expect to see a small deduction.

In any case, while I won't penalize for dips, I do like nice clean builds, where everything works in harmony, so you can pick up extra points that way. I will also give out small bonuses here if everything is written up cleanly, in an engaging manner. Nothing huge - the build is most important. But presentation DOES matter, and if you do a good job with it, I think you should be rewarded. I don't need three pages of backstory, but I do like to see more than a list of abilities.

I'm mildly cheese-tolerant - I don't mind characters being effective or using abilities in new and exciting ways, as long as the rules do indeed back you up. But this should be something you are willing to sit down with other human beings and actually play, so keep the Vieux Boulougne at home. Also, this should go without saying, but if a build element is illegal (failing to qualify for a feat/PrC, for instance), I will deduct for it.

BASELINE BUILD: A build that you can pick up and walk over to almost any table, and it won't raise any eyebrows. Builds that are DM-dependent or questionable rules-wise will score lower here, as will builds that are clunky and messy. Builds that are a thing of beauty will score higher here - ones that make even the stuffiest DM sit up and say, hey, that's awesome, I'd love to have you in our group.

Use of Secret Ingredient

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This one's pretty simple. Do you use the secret ingredient's abilities to good effect, or are they more of a footnote? Is there another class that could have done a better job at what you are trying to do? Your goal here is to highlight the secret ingredient, not to mask it. You will gain points by taking advantage of all the abilities provided, by using them in effective ways (an ability that would have been cool at level 6 won't score points with me if you don't pick it up until level 12), and by demonstrating how the SI brings your build together. You will lose points by dropping too many levels, failing to take advantage of the class's core abilities and pre-requisites, etc. You will automatically get minimum points here if you don't actually qualify for the PrC, so double-check those skill points!

BASELINE BUILD: A build that manages to use the secret ingredient without crying out to me, "HEY, this is only here because of a stupid contest, OK!" (I know, it might be hard with this one ) Builds that utilize all of the SI's abilities to good effect, and who really sell the idea that only the SI would have worked here, will score higher. Builds that don't really get any use out of the class features or pre-reqs, or that would really obviously just do better with another option, will score lower.