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Thread: Steven Universe

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    If the Wizard tropes includes the Seer, wouldn't the answer be Garnet?

    I haven't seen the King and his Wizard outside of the Arthurian-inspired works, but I haven't really looked into stories and tropes and related research. It is very similar to the Hero and his Mentor from the erm, I think it's called The Monomyth? Campbell's famous analysis of the hero's journey.

  2. - Top - End - #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaZodiac View Post
    Well also keep in mind she's kind of obsessed with the idea of being a knight, and heedlessly throwing herself into battle. She might not actually care about using tech because it would discount her knightly honour.
    I stand corrected- she did actually try to rig up an EMP in episode 49(?), just before finding out the light-cannons were useless against modern gem-tech. So, uh... yeah. That.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    The concept of the "wizard" as a singular, mandatory figure who holds the spiritual power over the king and is implicitly wiser than him undermines the entire idea of the king to begin with, because obviously if he were that much better he could just become king himself.
    Well, the subtext here is that Arthur is essentially heading up Merlin's PR department. (He's not exactly a puppet, but the idea of Merlin as the benignly devious manipulator is pretty ingrained in the stories. ...Which, on reflection, might not be the worst analogy for Steve's relationship with his mother and the other gems.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Well, the subtext here is that Arthur is essentially heading up Merlin's PR department. (He's not exactly a puppet, but the idea of Merlin as the benignly devious manipulator is pretty ingrained in the stories. ...Which, on reflection, might not be the worst analogy for Steve's relationship with his mother and the other gems.)
    Which kind of says a lot about Steven as a person. People forget that Arthur was a deeply flawed figure who's weak will and ease at straying off the "right" thing were what essentially made Mordred, and caused a bunch of his problems.

    The idea of Steven ever taking an authority position is quite frankly horrifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endoperez View Post
    If the Wizard tropes includes the Seer, wouldn't the answer be Garnet?

    I haven't seen the King and his Wizard outside of the Arthurian-inspired works, but I haven't really looked into stories and tropes and related research. It is very similar to the Hero and his Mentor from the erm, I think it's called The Monomyth? Campbell's famous analysis of the hero's journey.
    Yeah, I think Garnet would qualify as the Merlin for most purposes. She has the secret knowledge that she uses to direct and advise the other Gems, she is (for at least the first season) quite mysterious, and she's not quite as infalliable as she first appears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    Which kind of says a lot about Steven as a person. People forget that Arthur was a deeply flawed figure who's weak will and ease at straying off the "right" thing were what essentially made Mordred, and caused a bunch of his problems.

    The idea of Steven ever taking an authority position is quite frankly horrifying.
    Uh... Steven is what... 10? May be a little early to draw conclusions about his long-term leadership potential.

    Honestly, he strikes me as a well-intentioned kid who's gradually getting more tactically proficient and has a striking level of EQ for his age. He's excitable and maudlin and fearless-bordering-on-stupid, but that's also not atypical for his age.

    What gives you the impression he'd be permanently unfit to govern, so to speak?

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    Yeah, my impression is that, just as the first season was about Steven transitioning from the tag along kid of the team to a pretty much full fledged member, some future season will be about his transition from team member to de facto leader, taking Rose's place. I wouldn't necessarily expect that to happen this season, because this season would probably be about him as member, but even now he's taking on some of the duties of a leader, and doing a pretty good job of it sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Uh... Steven is what... 10? May be a little early to draw conclusions about his long-term leadership potential.

    Honestly, he strikes me as a well-intentioned kid who's gradually getting more tactically proficient and has a striking level of EQ for his age. He's excitable and maudlin and fearless-bordering-on-stupid, but that's also not atypical for his age.

    What gives you the impression he'd be permanently unfit to govern, so to speak?
    A ten year old receiving no formal education and who flunked out of basic swordsmanship due to not being willing to learn actually applicable skills(remember, Steven isn't "a healer" by choice. He wanted to learn to fight then got Pearl killed and the issue was dropped).

    That's the thing. The hell is Steven going to do in like, ten years, going at the pace he is now? He isn't going to be leading from the front, despite insistence otherwise, because he's spent aproximatley zero time trying to learn how to use his powers(and lets get brutally honest, a default weapon and bubble shield isn't much. The other gems have entire suites of abilities he hasn't even bothered to explore, and that's not counting the fact that he's a tubby, inathletic kid in a world where his fights require superhuman strength, speed, and reaction time to actually matter). He also can't exactly call upon his vast experience of surviving do or die situations because he's perfectly comfortable with the gems babying him and hiding behind others when it gets hard, and his only real experience with "crunch time" amounts to "develop a new superpower at that last convenient second, which saves the day without needing to work or think about it". He sure as hell also has no good instincts to counter this, given his genius plans of "lets let the drone reach it's target without resistance" and "lure two unsuspecting humans to the island of a monster that was never found".

    When characters are supposed to take up a leadership role, especially young children, there's generally an indication besides just being a main character that they're actually worthy of that leadership and capable of inspiring people. When they find out their mentors are holding back and lying about how good they are, they demand to be treated fairly and spoken to frankly so they can actually develop. When the chips are down, they need to redouble their efforts or get creative to make things work, not hope that mommy left them another power that solves the problem without their input. When their friend is trapped somewhere far away they worry about it and do everything in their power to save them, not stand around playing with sea monkeys while someone else who clearly can't do anything flounders uselessly. This isn't me talking out my ass, it's the way the genre works and has worked across a half dozen mediums and for decades upon decades, and it works for a reason.

    Children don't suddenly morph into fully functioning adults able to take responsibility. They develop along the paths they're already on or choose to walk down. I believe this is the second time I've mentioned this, and I hate to repeat myself.

    How in gods name do you expect Steven, who refuses to learn about Gem Culture, can't take basic lessons in fighting like other gems, refuses to take initiative, and is generally unsuited to anything resembling responsibility(see also: literally any time he has to handle any kind of important artifacts like the statue/mirror/shards/hourglass, and invariably screws it up and destroys something), to become a leader of people he knows nothing about, can't operate on par with no matter how much time he has, and clearly won't launch any kind of mission or operation on his own unless forced to?

    There is a vast difference between "I'm strong enough to contribute" and "I'm the kind of person who inspires people to be their best, and plans in ways that lead to consistent victory", and it's not something that just develops on a scale of 1 to 10, they're on totally different scales alltogether.
    Last edited by Jayngfet; 2015-07-07 at 09:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    Children don't suddenly morph into fully functioning adults able to take responsibility. They develop along the paths they're already on or choose to walk down. I believe this is the second time I've mentioned this, and I hate to repeat myself.
    First of all, Jayngfet, I don't particularly follow your posts and am not obliged to by the board rules, so I don't see where this indignation is coming from. If you believe you have a relevant prior post on the topic, feel free to refer me to it.

    I am reluctant to counter-argue specific points because that easily devolves the discussion into a chest-bumping contest based on respective cherry-picking of episode trivia. But, to give one or two examples off the top of my head- I think Steven essentially handled things correctly when Pearl was giving Connie sword-lessons and had a good handle on Amethyst's dysfunction when she kept getting poofed.

    Your assessment also goes entirely counter to what the gems themselves seem to think of Steven's potential- bearing in mind these are entities who tend to think of idle centuries as we would sunday afternoons. By their standards his growth- and particularly his mastery of gem abilities- has been positively meteoric.

    Now, if you're claiming that in reality children tend to have fixed personalities and furthermore that the show's authors, prescriptively, ought to depict them as such, well... that's a rather larger discussion. But I'm really not the one you ought to take it up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    When they find out their mentors are holding back and lying about how good they are, they demand to be treated fairly and spoken to frankly so they can actually develop.
    EDIT: Oh, but this deserves special mention, given that this is exactly what Steven does at the end of Political Power.
    Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2015-07-07 at 10:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Your assessment also goes entirely counter to what the gems themselves seem to think of Steven's potential- bearing in mind these are entities who tend to think of idle centuries as we would sunday afternoons. By their standards his growth- and particularly his mastery of gem abilities- has been positively meteoric.
    Here's the thing though: Potential means nothing if it's not accessed or displayed. Potential is totally inert and inactive until it becomes an actual force that affects the world. How many kids have potential vs the ones that actually exert it in a major way?

    Where is Steven's potential, as a person and not as someone who happens to develop powers whenever convenient, whenever they really need it?It's one thing to have potential, or even just say you have potential, and it's another to do something with it.

    Now, if you're claiming that in reality children tend to have fixed personalities and furthermore that the show's authors, prescriptively, ought to depict them as such, well... that's a rather larger discussion. But I'm really not the one you ought to take it up with.
    I'm claiming that people don't magically become responsible as they get older. Big difference.

    EDIT: Oh, but this deserves special mention, given that this is exactly what Steven does at the end of Political Power.
    Too little, too late. Where was that attitude on the obstacle course when they gave him a soft challenge to boost his confidence without telling him? Or his potential the gems say they have when the challenge the same gems say should be easy for him is one he fails?

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    The Challenge he failed was a result of an accident.

    I also don't remember them ever saying that the Water Spire was supposed to be easy, only that it was a test, furthermore a test he passed, since he got a 75%(That's a C)-It's on'y Steven's own insistance that he failed.

    Furthermore, I fail to see what the connection between Steven realizing that sometimes people in position of authority sometimes lie to avoid upsetting people has to do with Steven's "make up test."

    And, furthermore, while children do not morph into responsible people as they age, the fact of the mater is, Steven is becoming more responsible as the show goes on.
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    So I didn't read the entire thread, but I saw a theory somewhere that Jasper is already a Fusion, but one that "forgot she was ever two."

    The guy cited Jasper's size as a point in the theory's favor, though admitted that Rose Quartz was even bigger than her despite being (presumably) a single gem, so it might not account for much.

    But another point that he made, the one that sold me on it because I already picked up on this little tidbit, was that every other fusion of 3 or more gems ends in -ite, except for Malachite. So either it's a fluke and the naming scheme is something we imagined (which is likely), or there's more than two gems inside of Jasper.

    But if Jasper has two gems, one of them would likely be this "Sardonyx" Character we see named, in WordArt that almost perfectly mimics Jasper's color scheme.


    On another note, am I the only one who considers Pearl the most likely to turn evil? That is, in some hypothetical scenario where it gets announced that one of the Crystal Gems will defect (un-defect? refect?) back to the Homeworld, all of my money would go on Pearl to make that Face-Heel turn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post
    On another note, am I the only one who considers Pearl the most likely to turn evil? That is, in some hypothetical scenario where it gets announced that one of the Crystal Gems will defect (un-defect? refect?) back to the Homeworld, all of my money would go on Pearl to make that Face-Heel turn.
    Really, Pearl? "Would-die-for-Rose" Pearl?
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    The Challenge he failed was a result of an accident.
    The challenge he failed because he's unfit and has poor reflexes, a poor sense of timing, and a bad anticipation of traps. If you check again you'll see that he actually failed multiple times, and would have been showered with lava even before being crushed, he just failed to notice a trap that'd have killed him otherwise. Not to mention him actually not clearing the boulder and it stopping just short of him the first time, or landing on the wrong tile but not realizing it either, or when he tried to clear the last blade and it actually stops short when his head is turned.

    Steven failed the challenge five times.

    I also don't remember them ever saying that the Water Spire was supposed to be easy, only that it was a test, furthermore a test he passed, since he got a 75%(That's a C)-It's on'y Steven's own insistance that he failed.
    They went in expecting an easy test and he only "passed" because of something unrelated Pearl tried to hand him as a gimmie when pressed on the issue.

    But that's irrelevant. The spire collapsed, he was given a job to prevent this. It was a pass/fail and the only reason he "passed" was because they didn't want that conversation.

    Furthermore, I fail to see what the connection between Steven realizing that sometimes people in position of authority sometimes lie to avoid upsetting people has to do with Steven's "make up test."
    First of all, if Steven had any coordination he'd never have failed. Secondly, he took the easy choice, not the right one. Training is about more than letter grades and pass/fail, it's to make sure you're ready for when things get hard in real life. He took his same crappy battle instincts into the field and let Peridot reach the kindergarten. He took his same lack of reflex and got his ass handed to him by Jasper. Or his lack of attention or thought giving him no idea what the hell the homeworld gems even were despite Pearl attempting to explain it to him twice.

    He failed the test, and he constantly screws up outside it for the exact same reasons he failed every single test and would have been dead five times over in a real life challenge.

    And, furthermore, while children do not morph into responsible people as they age, the fact of the mater is, Steven is becoming more responsible as the show goes on.
    Right up until Season 2 he still screws up every time he gets his hands on something gem related and it gets destroyed. His idea of responsibility is to aknowledge a problem. He won't do anything but he'll at least talk about it. The fact that that's an improvement says a lot already.
    Last edited by Jayngfet; 2015-07-07 at 11:27 PM.

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    He's like, 8 or 9. 10 at the oldest.

    Getting a damn 8 year old to acknowledge a mistake is huge.

    I also feel that your argument depends on accentuating the negative.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2015-07-07 at 11:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Really, Pearl? "Would-die-for-Rose" Pearl?
    The same way "Cute, outrageous, incorrigible comic relief" Amethyst literally lashed out at Pearl because she was convinced that everyone saw her as bad because she was created in the Kindergarden, which was a bad thing Homeworld did, and so only bad things could come out of it.

    Pearl would fight and die for Rose Quartz, but she was always fighting for Rose, and not necessarily for Rose's cause. And Rose isn't here anymore. Well, she sort of is, but not really. If Pearl ever gets it into her head that she came in second in Rose's eyes- second to said cause, second to the Earth, second to humans, second to Greg- she could just decide to screw it all, it wasn't worth it, and she was wasting thousands of years of her quasi-immortal life fighting for a thing that got all of Rose's love instead of her.

    I mean, Amethyst knows that Pearl and Garnet love her, she knows that Steven loves her, so it'll be pretty difficult for some Slade-like figure to convince her that her friends think lowly of her. Plus, she has fun on Earth, and likes interacting with people.

    Garnet is devoted to both Steven and his cause, and so long as Steven wants to protect the world, Garnet will, too.

    Pearl is the only one of the gems that would be a sociopath by human standards. She doesn't empathize with humans, and doesn't really see the point in a lot of things humans do. Earth has the least to offer Pearl, so I see her as the most likely to turn her back on it.

    Again, I reiterate that I don't think the story would go that route at all, just that if CN ran an ad that said "This Season on Steven Universe, one Gem will turn to the Dark Side," I would predict that it would be Pearl.
    Last edited by John Cribati; 2015-07-07 at 11:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    He's like, 8 or 9. 10 at the oldest.

    Getting a damn 8 year old to acknowledge a mistake is huge.
    A badly raised 8 year old.

    I also feel that your argument depends on accentuating the negative.
    I don't care what you feel. He failed the test five times over. This is objective fact you can check yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post
    The same way "Cute, outrageous comic relief" Amethyst literally lashed out at Pearl because she was convinced that everyone saw her as bad because she was created in the Kindergarden, which was a bad thing Homeworld did, and so only bad things could come out of it.
    We see Amethyst get violent with Garnet as early as Tiger Millionaire, and with Pearl as Sugilite, long before Kindergarten. She might do funny things, but she's hardly just comic relief.

    Pearl, on the other hand, hates admitting that she's wrong, and IMO would be the least likely to give up even if she thought it was pointless to defend Earth.
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    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Really, if he failed the test five times, well, then he'd have discovered that the Test was a fake way earlier, didn't he?

    I also fail to see how you can fail a fake test that's literally impossible to fail and only exists to give him a boost in confidence to someone who lost confidence upon learning that his "failed" mission was actually a test, despite that original test only being "failed" due to an accident and Steven passing with a 75% due to 75% of his plans working.

    Steven accomplished the "success" parameters of his fake make up test mission.

    If Anything, Steven super passed his makeup "Test" since he figured out what it was, figured out how it all works, and then went back and did it normal anyway, because he understands why the Gems gave him a test that's impossible to fail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Really, if he failed the test five times, well, then he'd have discovered that the Test was a fake way earlier, didn't he?
    A test designed around physical ability and memory doesn't care if you realized you'd failed, you just fail.

    I also fail to see how you can fail a fake test that's literally impossible to fail and only exists to give him a boost in confidence to someone who lost confidence upon learning that his "failed" mission was actually a test, despite that original test only being "failed" due to an accident and Steven passing with a 75% due to 75% of his plans working.
    It was a competence boost based on the idea that he can do bare minimums instead of fail in every single area it's possible to fail in.

    Steven accomplished the "success" parameters of his fake make up test mission.
    Which is the problem. The fact that he clearly isn't ready and fails every single time he goes out into the world to do something serious shows that if that's a success, his successes aren't actually worth much.

    If Anything, Steven super passed his makeup "Test" since he figured out what it was, figured out how it all works, and then went back and did it normal anyway, because he understands why the Gems gave him a test that's impossible to fail.
    They gave him a test impossible to fail because they don't respect his abilities or development enough to treat him like a member of the team. It just turns out they were right to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    We see Amethyst get violent with Garnet as early as Tiger Millionaire, and with Pearl as Sugilite, long before Kindergarten. She might do funny things, but she's hardly just comic relief.

    Pearl, on the other hand, hates admitting that she's wrong, and IMO would be the least likely to give up even if she thought it was pointless to defend Earth.
    Yes, but up until that episode, Amethyst's moments of violence could be read as a form of "teenage rebellion," if you will, and not based on the deep-seated issues we didn't even know she had.

    And Pearl wouldn't exactly be giving up in this scenario, it'd be more like actively fighting against the things that supposedly took precedence over her in Rose's eyes. It would be more to do with her often vindictive nature, directed at Rose.

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    The amount of energy spent on putting down a fictional ten year old is amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    The amount of energy spent on putting down a fictional ten year old is amazing.
    This isn't actually terribly long or arduous. It's like a couple of minutes per post, tops, maybe five if I want to go back and check an episode.

    Of course if you want me to stop "putting down a fictional ten year old" then you need only prove me wrong conclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    A test designed around physical ability and memory doesn't care if you realized you'd failed, you just fail.
    Objectivly false, on the grounds that the parameters of the mission were "Meet the gems on the other side." Steven met the Gems on the otherside.

    Ergo, he succeeded on the mission, and thus passed the test.

    It was a competence boost based on the idea that he can do bare minimums instead of fail in every single area it's possible to fail in.
    Citation needed. All we're told in the episode is that it's a test that's impossible to fail



    Which is the problem. The fact that he clearly isn't ready and fails every single time he goes out into the world to do something serious shows that if that's a success, his successes aren't actually worth much.
    Serious Situations that he doen'st fail:

    Laser Light Cannon: Assumes that Greg has the Laser Light Cannon. Steven's assumption is correct, and he retrieves the Cannon.

    Cheeseburger Backpack: Mission only fails because Steven accidentally left behind the Moon Goddess Statue. 75% of Steven's plans in the episode worked. Furthermore, we later learned that this mission was a test to see if Steven should be allowed to come on missions in the Future. Steven is brought along on Future Missions, thus, as far as the gems are concerned, Steven must passed the Test, because otherwise, he'd not have been brought on missions.

    Frybro: Steven caused the problem due to not paying attention. However, he's also the one who came up with the plan that successfully defeated Frybro

    Bubble Buddies: Steven is quite competent in defeating the worm.

    Serious Steven: Steven was the one who figured out the trap in the Temple.

    Giant Woman: Steven was the one who retrieved the Heaven Beetle. Not Amythest, Not Pearl, and definitely not Opal.

    Steven the Sword Fighter: He did defeat Holo-Pearl, who was on a setting high enough to cut a Tree in half with a balloon.

    Monster Buddies: Successfully tamed the Centipeetle.

    Ocean Gem: Defeated the Water Doppelgangers, healed Lapis, and successfully negotiated her peaceful retreat from the earth and the return of it's oceans.

    And that's just the first half of Season 1. I'm less familiar with the second half, due to only have gotten to Ocean Gem in my second watch before I got distracted by Homestuck, but off the top of my head, in "Marble Madness" Steven was the one who came up with the logical plan to obverse Peridot's Robots to find out what they want, in "The Message" Steven was the one to realize that the titular message was Video instead of Audio, in "Political Power" Steven talked down an angry mob that was out for blood, and in "Jail Break" Steven escaped from a jail cell, rescued all of the other Crystal Gems, it was Garnet's fault that he couldn't save Lapis(since Garnet decided to be a badass instead of just jab Jasper with the "instantly destroy a gem's projection" stick), and Steven's bubble shield was enough to protect the Crystal Gems from a crash landing from outside the earth's atmosphere.

    That looks like a whole lot of success to me.
    They gave him a test impossible to fail because they don't respect his abilities or development enough to treat him like a member of the team. It just turns out they were right to.
    And this is what I mean about Accentuating the Negatives: They flat out say, while talking amongst themselves, not knowing that Steven is there and thus having no reason to lie, that the gave Steven a test that one couldn't fail to boost his confidence.
    Last edited by Rater202; 2015-07-08 at 12:27 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    I don't care what you feel.
    That pretty much sums up the Jayngfet experience.
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  25. - Top - End - #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    Objectivly false, on the grounds that the parameters of the mission were "Meet the gems on the other side." Steven met the Gems on the otherside.

    Ergo, he succeeded on the mission, and thus passed the test.


    Citation needed. All we're told in the episode is that it's a test that's impossible to fail
    Alright, so by your parameters lets think about this from the gems perspective:

    Either they think he actually beat it by winning over the challenges, but was so slow at it he's obviously not ready.

    Or, and that he figured it out, but he was still slower than expected and obviously not ready.

    He performed below expectations. This much is made explicit when they think he's not listening.

    Laser Light Cannon: Assumes that Greg has the Laser Light Cannon. Steven's assumption is correct, and he retrieves the Cannon.
    Compare that to the shards, hourglass, and escape pod. So he only destroys 75% of the things he touches and his batting average is getting worse.

    Cheeseburger Backpack: Mission only fails because Steven accidentally left behind the Moon Goddess Statue. 75% of Steven's plans in the episode worked. Furthermore, we later learned that this mission was a test to see if Steven should be allowed to come on missions in the Future. Steven is brought along on Future Missions, thus, as far as the gems are concerned, Steven must passed the Test, because otherwise, he'd not have been brought on missions.
    The mission fails because of him. He didn't destroy 25% of the building, he destroyed all of it.

    Frybro: Steven caused the problem due to not paying attention. However, he's also the one who came up with the plan that successfully defeated Frybro
    You don't get points for fixing a mess caused by your own incompetence.

    Bubble Buddies: Steven is quite competent in defeating the worm.
    This one I'll give you, but it's literally the only time in the entire series he manages to actually succeed on wit and reflex and not circumstance or someone else's help.

    Giant Woman: Steven was the one who retrieved the Heaven Beetle. Not Amythest, Not Pearl, and definitely not Opal.
    That's on the other two for forgetting. They still did most of the actual work and were only in danger because he spent too much time screwing around.

    Steven the Sword Fighter: He did defeat Holo-Pearl, who was on a setting high enough to cut a Tree in half with a balloon.
    After getting his teacher killed and having it still set on low.

    Monster Buddies: Successfully tamed the Centipeetle.
    Only for it to freak out and be bubbled again. He forgot all about his "success" and left it to rot in the temple after that.

    Ocean Gem: Defeated the Water Doppelgangers, healed Lapis, and successfully negotiated her peaceful retreat from the earth and the return of it's oceans.
    Because of a power he got handed.

    And that's just the first half of Season 1. I'm less familiar with the second half, due to only have gotten to Ocean Gem in my second watch before I got distracted by Homestuck, but off the top of my head, in "Marble Madness" Steven was the one who came up with the logical plan to obverse Peridot's Robots to find out what they want, in "The Message" Steven was the one to realize that the titular message was Video instead of Audio, in "Political Power" Steven talked down an angry mob that was out for blood, and in "Jail Break" Steven escaped from a jail cell, rescued all of the other Crystal Gems, it was Garnet's fault that he couldn't save Lapis(since Garnet decided to be a badass instead of just jab Jasper with the "instantly destroy a gem's projection" stick), and Steven's bubble shield was enough to protect the Crystal Gems from a crash landing from outside the earth's atmosphere.
    Stevens plan revealed their position and triggered an invasion. The message was only necessary because of that failure. Steven only escaped because he got handed yet another power, he didn't actually do anything at that point.

    And this is what I mean about Accentuating the Negatives: They flat out say, while talking amongst themselves, not knowing that Steven is there and thus having no reason to lie, that the gave Steven a test that one couldn't fail to boost his confidence.
    His confidence doesn't matter. They lost the fight because he was unready to contribute outside of one shielding when against Jasper and if it weren't for him getting a power they couldn't have planned for, that would have been it. They all lost and got the crap kicked out of them. For all the confidence he gained it was all worthless in the end.

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  26. - Top - End - #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    You have no idea how tempted I am to make this my signature
    Go for it. It'll serve as a handy warning.
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  27. - Top - End - #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Go for it. It'll serve as a handy warning.
    Indeed.

    People really should be aware going in that the actual content of their post should matter more than their feelings.
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  28. - Top - End - #868
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    Default Re: Steven Universe

    Steven's healing spit is tied to his Confidence-Ergo, it does matter.

    Furthermore, Steven's Make up test had nothing to do with the Gem invasion.

    And, I must reitnerate, Steven did not Fail the Ocean Spire Mission.

    The purpose of the Mission was not, in fact, to save the ocean spire.

    The purpose of the mission was to See if Steven was competant enough to go on missions.

    It is an Objective Fact that Steven goes on missions after Ocean Spire.

    Thus, from the point of view of the Gems, the mission was a success.

    75% of Steven's ideas worked.

    75% of the test was passed.

    75% is a C.

    C is a passing grade.

    Steven passed the Ocean Spire Test, as is supported by his continued presence on missions after the fact.

    All of your other objections seem to be a result of splitting hairs, and are quite arbitrary. Looking at net results, he's at least breaking even in each of those situations, and thus not failing.

    Furthermore, I've proved my point: You said that Steven only ever fails, I provided you with successes, one of which you acknowledged as such.

    Because yo have acknowledged at least one of Steven's successes, your claim that he always fails is thus false.

    Has anybody seen this yet?
    Last edited by Rater202; 2015-07-08 at 12:59 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #869
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    Default Re: Steven Universe

    [QUOTE=Rater202;19504404]

    Furthermore, Steven's Make up test had nothing to do with the Gem invasion.

    [QUOTE]

    It was a test when knowing that enemies were incoming. If it wasn't explicitly "about" the invasion it showed how he'd handle it. By which I mean he had terrible instincts, managed one hit, then contributed nothing until getting smacked in the face and losing consciousness.

    And, I must reitnerate, Steven did not Fail the Ocean Spire Mission.
    Steven failed to save the spire. That was his one job. That's all that matters. A cheap excuse to give him a C- doesn't rebuild what was destroyed.

    The purpose of the Mission was not, in fact, to save the ocean spire.
    Pearl very much states that's their explicit goal.

    The purpose of the mission was to See if Steven was competant enough to go on missions.
    Missions where he needs to be physically carried or only contributes due to circumstances beyond his control 90% of the time.

    It is an Objective Fact that Steven goes on missions after Ocean Spire.
    ...and still screws them up. He got the hourglass destroyed after mishandling it just off the top of my head, and he didn't actually need to even do anything on that one.

    Thus, from the point of view of the Gems, the mission was a success.
    The stated mission goals were failed.

    75% of Steven's ideas worked.

    75% of the test was passed.

    75% is a C.

    C is a passing grade.
    Give me your numbers for that percentage.

    and a C- is never something to be proud of.

    Can you imagine Rose Quartz going "well we saved three fourths of the world, that's GOOD ENOUGH"?

    Steven passed the Ocean Spire Test, as is supported by his continued presence on missions after the fact.
    He failed the test. This is evident by the spire no longer existing.

    All of your other objections seem to be a result of splitting hairs, and are quite arbitrary. Looking at net results, he's at least breaking even in each of those situations, and thus not failing.
    Getting punched in the face and letting everyone down, letting enemies escape, having to be constantly carried when in the field, and failing whenever it matters is not arbitrary. It shows Steven is incompetent.

    Furthermore, I've proved my point: You said that Steven only ever fails, I provided you with successes, one of which you acknowledged as such.
    He has A success. Singular. One success. I'll acknowledge that but his statistics are still incredibly abysmal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herpestidae View Post
    So I didn't read the entire thread, but I saw a theory somewhere that Jasper is already a Fusion, but one that "forgot she was ever two."
    This was mentioned earlier (I know you didn't read through the whole thread, thus why I'm telling you, don't worry)and the general consensus was "wow no that theory is dumb and wrong."

    I'mma stick by that. If Jasper was a fusion that "forgot itself" we'd of seen a second gem by now, or third in the case of Malachite.


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