Steven Universe

[LaZodiac]

What does that actually mean for gems, though? They don't have sexes, so Pearl's infatuation with Rose isn't Pearl being into girls, it's Pearl being into gems. Similarly, I'm not sure that gems get attracted to human sexes or even really understand what they are. Greg pursued Rose because she looked female, but I don't think it would have actually made any difference for Rose if he'd been a woman who was into chicks. It's not like he actually impregnated her, either.

Well we don't really know what the deal is for that last bit, but for the most part you're basically right.

[Rater202]

Word of God is that Rose shapeshifted a Womb and carried steven.

And Steven's human-based meat body had to come from somewhere: If his human dad wasn't involved in the process, he wouldn't be half human.

But yeah, on the gender thing, It's not a factor on the Gem end: Word of God is that they're a sexless* Species that lacks gender identity only presents as Female for convenience and don't normally reproduce at all, and furthermore that half human steven is the only gem with a gender and the only male gem.

Even Steven seems to treat Gender rather casually once or twice: Claiming he'd like to be a Giant Woman in his Giant Woman song is one off the tp of my head, and Stevonnie apparently didn't suffer much in the way of dysphoria, which is very telling.

To be honest, I'm reasonably certain that the only difference between Romance and Super Close Friendships, for gems, is that Romance occasionally involves kissing.

*In the biological sense. Between Steven being carried in a womb and Rose's sultry "Oh, yess" when Greg commented on the last few months being "fun", I'm assuming that they can at least go through the motions of the physical act.

[Flickerdart]

Word of God is that Rose shapeshifted a Womb and carried steven.

And Steven's human-based meat body had to come from somewhere: If his human dad wasn't involved in the process, he wouldn't be half human.

Right, but I mean that if Rose could have shapeshifted one set of genitalia, she could have shapeshifted the other just as well.

Also, I just thought of something - between Pearl and Greg, we've only ever heard about Rose from people who worshiped the ground she walked on. Is it possible that we have unreliable narrators and Rose isn't all she's cracked up to be?

[Fragenstein]

Is it possible that we have unreliable narrators and Rose isn't all she's cracked up to be?

[Flickerdart]

It's even scarier when you realize that there's a third source about Rose - Jasper, who expresses respect for Rose's tactics. Given Jasper's own attitude towards her underlings, and combined with what Pearl taught Connie about being a knight (the whole "it doesn't matter if you die" bit), it makes me wonder what tactics those were, exactly...

[Lacuna Caster]

Stupid gross man/human things that Pearl doesn't like. Remember, she can't stand eating.

Well... there is an early episode with the birthdays where Pearl says she 'likes Pie', but it's possible the writers were still nailing the canon in place at that point.

But yeah, on the gender thing, It's not a factor on the Gem end: Word of God is that they're a sexless* Species that lacks gender identity only presents as Female for convenience and don't normally reproduce at all, and furthermore that half human steven is the only gem with a gender and the only male gem.

I am going to call this the "Gemder Question."

As with Transformers, I suspect it's one of those things that doesn't really yield coherent answers on examination, given it's all a back-formation from "Rebecca Sugar wanted some tight ladies to lead the show". This is a klein-bottle rabbit-hole folks, enter at your peril.


* Gems are capable of radical shapeshifting, but gem-corruption, body-reformation and fusion-states all indicate they have a default physical form that it's dangerous or taxing to depart from.

* Gems are capable of other human-specific activities, such as eating, dreaming and boinking(?) despite, e.g, Pearl having no previous experience with or practical use for them.

* If the gems only look female in a 'don't frighten the natives' sense, you'd expect there to be a couple of males. (How convenient would 'presenting as female for convenience' actually be, historically speaking?)

* Interestingly, although all the homeworld-gems we've seen still look female... ish, it's worth noting Jasper and Lapis were both on earth for significant periods. Peridot is the only entirely 'alien' gem we've seen, and does seem noticeably less 'organic'.

* If you care to, you can toss in all the usual scientific complications surrounding Green-Skinned Space Babes. Or say 'it's magic'.

[endoperez]

Garnet also says Rose felt real love for all living things (Indirect Kiss) and Amethyst said she was always there for her (Maximum Capacity), so Rose at the very least truly became what she's been shown to be.

She could've started as someone different.

[LaZodiac]

Also, I just thought of something - between Pearl and Greg, we've only ever heard about Rose from people who worshiped the ground she walked on. Is it possible that we have unreliable narrators and Rose isn't all she's cracked up to be?

That's honestly what I feel "We Need To Talk" did. IT showed us that as imperious and perfect as we've been lead t believe Rose is, she's still got her foibles and flaws. She still has that impressive aura about her, like she's more then everyone else, but she's not perfect.

I imagine a lot of what we know about Rose is true, but true in ways we don't want it to be. She's a mighty warrior like Pearl said, but the kind of warrior who, when faced with themselves in the mirror, hate the slaughter they've done.

Well... there is an early episode with the birthdays where Pearl says she 'likes Pie', but it's possible the writers were still nailing the canon in place at that point.

I am going to call this the "Gemder Question."

Pie is probably more complex and interesting to cook then pizza, which is just "slap everything on it and go". So she likes pie from that standpoint.

Concerning the whole gender thing, I imagine it's like the Namekians from Dragon Ball Z, or the Asari from Mass Effect. They are in effect a gender neutral asexual race, but due to circumstance they all happen to look like something that we as humans can call female due to our prejudices and world view. Even Jasper, who's the manliest of gems in terms of appearance, still has enough features to clearly be "a woman" for lack of a better term, by our human standards.

[Lacuna Caster]

It's even scarier when you realize that there's a third source about Rose - Jasper, who expresses respect for Rose's tactics. Given Jasper's own attitude towards her underlings, and combined with what Pearl taught Connie about being a knight (the whole "it doesn't matter if you die" bit), it makes me wonder what tactics those were, exactly...

Eh, to the extent that we know about Pearl's attitude about combat tactics, it's implied that both the other gems and Rose herself weren't happy about it. I wouldn't read too much into it just yet.

Two things, though-
(1) How did she hear about 'knighthood' several thousand years ago? (Even the roman equivalent would be a stretch, and that's barely BCE.)
(2) Knights need shining armour. I'm going to push for 'iron pearl' again.

[Lacuna Caster]

I will say one thing about Rose's grand-strategy though: It's heavily implied that there used to be a lot more gems around on earth, and that the current crew are only a handful of survivors that she was barely able to save. You might read that to mean she was willing to stomach a lot of collateral sooner than capitulate to the homeworld. Maybe.

The details there are hazy, but I suspect there'll be some interesting reveals on this point in future.

Pie is probably more complex and interesting to cook then pizza, which is just "slap everything on it and go". So she likes pie from that standpoint.

Concerning the whole gender thing, I imagine it's like the Namekians from Dragon Ball Z, or the Asari from Mass Effect. They are in effect a gender neutral asexual race, but due to circumstance they all happen to look like something that we as humans can call female due to our prejudices and world view. Even Jasper, who's the manliest of gems in terms of appearance, still has enough features to clearly be "a woman" for lack of a better term, by our human standards.

Oh, don't get me started on the Asari. The lengths people will go to retroactively explain Bioware's explicitly-commissioned race of sculpted panaphroditic sex-dolls is just incredible. (I'm sure Ms. Sugar's motives are nobler than that, but it's still a little silly to claim 'they just evolved that way'.)

[Xefas]

Pie is probably more complex and interesting to cook then pizza, which is just "slap everything on it and go". So she likes pie from that standpoint.

As someone who spent a few years making pizzas for a living, I'm internally screaming in horror right now.

[Ibrinar]

As someone who spent a few years making pizzas for a living, I'm internally screaming in horror right now.

Just slap together a pizza that will cheer you up!

[LaZodiac]

Oh, don't get me started on the Asari. The lengths people will go to retroactively explain Bioware's explicitly-commissioned race of sculpted panaphroditic sex-dolls is just incredible. (I'm sure Ms. Sugar's motives are nobler than that, but it's still a little silly to claim 'they just evolved that way'.)

Any thoughts on the Namekian's since they're all relatively handsome and statuesque, while being an all male race despite being literally plants.

As someone who spent a few years making pizzas for a living, I'm internally screaming in horror right now.

Speaking from Pearl's perspective. I recognize the dignity and importance of mastering the craft of good pizza making. But for Pearl it's using left overs to make a disc of slop that you bake in an oven.

[Jayngfet]

I suppose the obvious question is if rose could just use half her DNA and her experiments clearly showing her making organisms with their own rose quartz esque gems and/or powers, why didn't she just use a surrogate? Which was already pointed out by Flickerdart, but kind of bares mentioning simply because I don't think the writers thought that bit out quite too well.

Though on the topic of Gender itself, the codex makes it abundantly clear that Asari are an all female race from a biological standpoint. They only have that one set of hard built reproductive organs. Nameks are a totally different case in that there's obviously a story behind them, and we just haven't been told it yet. Which I believe also applies to the Asari as well since it's implied they were very different in the prothean era and before that and had changed somehow.

As for Rose's tactics, if you check Pearls hologram from the spire and the silhouettes from the forced fusion, you can see they're pretty much the same group of gems, just without the fancy clothes. So it stands to reason that most of the crystal gems were enjoying themselves until the war and then were basically sacrificed to stop them, given that flashback had no conflict among them but they were forced to after. Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl are clear exceptions to whatever rules normal gems play by, and all basically worship her based on that. For them to be conveniently the ones that made it seems a bit far fetched.

In part 1 of the Chūnin Exam arc in Naruto, the applicants have a written test. The stated objective was to answer the questions, but Naruto turned in a blabk sheet and still passed. Why? Because the ultimate objective of the test was to find out which prospective ninja would be able to commit to a life-or-death decision. Naruto failed the written test, yes, but the written test was not the actual test he needed to pass.

The Sea Spire 'test' was something similar to that. Yes, he failed the stated objective, but that wasn't the ultimate objective of the test.

Yeah, and Naruto failed the Chunin Exam. He was a Genin even as his more well trained allies became Jonin. He even struggled to get as far as he did because he had less technique and had only even become a ninja because he got handed his powers at that point due to other people's plans.

The entire next arc is Naruto realizing this and fixing it on his own, by undergoing intense training to develop new techniques and actually catch up to the people he'd always been lagging behind.

[BizzaroStormy]

Well... there is an early episode with the birthdays where Pearl says she 'likes Pie', but it's possible the writers were still nailing the canon in place at that point.

I'll have to locate the post but one of the crew had said that it was the art/science of baking the pie and not really the consumption. Pearl's recent affinity towards household chores shows that cooking could be a hobby.

Of course there's also the headcannon that she tastes small bites of food like wine, then spits it into a bucket.

[John Cribati]

Yeah, and Naruto failed the Chunin Exam. He was a Genin even as his more well trained allies became Jonin. He even struggled to get as far as he did because he had less technique and had only even become a ninja because he got handed his powers at that point due to other people's plans.

First of all, I was specifically referring to the first portion of the exam, the written test, what the real test was within the test, and how that could apply to the Sea Spire incident. In fact, the other two parts of the test were very straightforward, and his failure at those two parts aren't important to my point.
Second, he didn't so much fail the exam, as the exam had to get cancelled because Orochimaru crashed it. Literally. With a giant three-headed(IIRC) snake, a tanuki made of sand, and an army.

[Jayngfet]

First of all, I was specifically referring to the first portion of the exam, the written test, what the real test was within the test, and how that could apply to the Sea Spire incident. In fact, the other two parts of the test were very straightforward, and his failure at those two parts aren't important to my point.
Second, he didn't so much fail the exam, as the exam had to get cancelled because Orochimaru crashed it. Literally. With a giant three-headed(IIRC) snake, a tanuki made of sand, and an army.

I think you're missing the entire point of the post.

Passing a test, for the sake of passing a test, is a worthless exercise. For someone to say "well you got a C- due to special consideration, that's good enough!" then put you through another test where you fail all the practical elements will not translate to actual life, because life doesn't care about feelings or give special considerations.

If Steven had actually been seriously training and working on his reflexes, he wouldn't have gotten his ass kicked by Jasper, or at least not so easily. That he "passed" both tests despite failing anything that required his active contributions is irrelevant. What's relevant is that Steven is not good enough. He can't remember basic four square patterns even if repeated to him twice. He hasn't got the timing or rhythm to dodge a fixed attack moving in a predictable pattern. He hasn't got the senses needed to actually dodge incoming traps even knowing where they'll be and how they'll trigger. He can't even pay attention long enough to learn the most basic forms of the most basic fighting styles.

For all we know, this could still be good on a gem timescale, but Steven doesn't have that kind of time and neither do the gems. Peridot was basically sending drones nonstop to them by that point and by the time anyone had begun training seriously, they'd had an enemy on the loose on earth and others elsewhere alerted to their presence. These being enemies of a faction that have made it explicitly clear that their end goal involves the slaughter of every man woman and child on earth and that they posses no sympathy or empathy for others.

When the crap hits the fan, Jasper didn't go "oh you poor baby, you're just learning!", she beat him unconscious and tossed him in a dingy cell with the others. When Peridot was reactivating the core, she was willing to crush him flat on the spot because he exposed himself like an idiot, because of his terrible instincts and lack of thought. Hell, even Lapis was sincerely trying to drown him and if he didn't get lucky that was it, he would have died right there.

He's entered a fight to the death, weather or not he's willing to acknowledge it as such. Because right now Yellow Diamond is probably wondering why the planet where so many of her people fought and died is giving that kind of resistance again, and why a seemingly routine operation there seems to have turned ugly so many times. She isn't going to wait for his turn or give him what he needs to win, and neither are any of the gems under her.

[Pigeon_VII]

Obviously, the alternate universe Stan Pines was trapped in was the Gem World.

Oh please. That makes no sense. He was obviously trapped in the Homestar Runner Universe. How else do you explain this clip?

[eggynack]

Passing a test, for the sake of passing a test, is a worthless exercise. For someone to say "well you got a C- due to special consideration, that's good enough!" then put you through another test where you fail all the practical elements will not translate to actual life, because life doesn't care about feelings or give special considerations.

I agree. The "grade" he got on the test was just about irrelevant, and the idea that the gems would hinge their opinion of Steven's capabilities on something as arbitrary as the pass/fail mechanics of our grade scale doesn't make much sense. What's important is that Steven actually did pass most of the practical elements of his test. He forgot the most important thing to the mission, granted, but when push came to shove, he showed inventiveness and resourcefulness when push came to shove, seemingly constructing plans that outdid what other members of the team could put together, and showing remarkable bravery in the execution of those plans. It's not all down to the other team members playing down their capabilities for Steven's testing either, as Steven has consistently shown that he can find unconventional solutions to problems in a number of episodes. The question of that episode, as we found out later, was whether Steven was good enough to participate in missions on a more consistent basis, and based on the talent he showed, my opinion is that the answer is yes.

If Steven had actually been seriously training and working on his reflexes, he wouldn't have gotten his ass kicked by Jasper, or at least not so easily. That he "passed" both tests despite failing anything that required his active contributions is irrelevant. What's relevant is that Steven is not good enough. He can't remember basic four square patterns even if repeated to him twice. He hasn't got the timing or rhythm to dodge a fixed attack moving in a predictable pattern. He hasn't got the senses needed to actually dodge incoming traps even knowing where they'll be and how they'll trigger. He can't even pay attention long enough to learn the most basic forms of the most basic fighting styles.

Being a good leader and being a good fighter are two very different things. He's been pretty adept at the former, pushing to maintain harmony in a group often frayed and full of conflict, and while he's not nearly as good at the latter as his companions, he's getting better with practice. The true test of the episode "The Test", after all, was whether he could successfully give the gems some of the confidence they need in raising him, and in so doing temporarily take on the role of mature adult in the group. The crystal gems could definitely use another fighter, capable of taking on monsters efficiently (though your assertion that he could ever pose a threat to Jasper, a gem that gave a good fight to the absolute strongest member of their team, and which would almost certainly best Pearl and Amethyst in one on ones, or perhaps even a two on one, is ludicrous, at least right now), what they really need is what Steven provides. He is their heart, and their different perspective, and perhaps eventually, their leader.

When the crap hits the fan, Jasper didn't go "oh you poor baby, you're just learning!", she beat him unconscious and tossed him in a dingy cell with the others. When Peridot was reactivating the core, she was willing to crush him flat on the spot because he exposed himself like an idiot, because of his terrible instincts and lack of thought. Hell, even Lapis was sincerely trying to drown him and if he didn't get lucky that was it, he would have died right there.

Yeah, and during the first and third of those fights, the other gems would have died without Steven's presence. It's not like he's alone in trying to tackle threats that are possibly beyond his capabilities. And it's not just because of some blind luck that Steven succeeded where they failed in those situations. Against Lapis, the gems would have inevitably been destroyed had they not had access to Steven's empathy, and against Jasper, they almost certainly would have died had they not had access to his shield. If you're trying to argue that Steven isn't prepared to adventure with the crew in his current state, then these aren't the situations to point to. As for Peridot, as I've pointed out, I don't think that Steven was necessarily wrong to take a diplomatic stance with her. It's worked before, after all.

He's entered a fight to the death, weather or not he's willing to acknowledge it as such. Because right now Yellow Diamond is probably wondering why the planet where so many of her people fought and died is giving that kind of resistance again, and why a seemingly routine operation there seems to have turned ugly so many times. She isn't going to wait for his turn or give him what he needs to win, and neither are any of the gems under her.

He seems pretty willing to acknowledge it, given several episodes where he's done so. I'm not entirely sure what your point is in pointing out how big and dangerous the homeworld gems are.

[Jayngfet]

I agree. The "grade" he got on the test was just about irrelevant, and the idea that the gems would hinge their opinion of Steven's capabilities on something as arbitrary as the pass/fail mechanics of our grade scale doesn't make much sense. What's important is that Steven actually did pass most of the practical elements of his test. He forgot the most important thing to the mission, granted, but when push came to shove, he showed inventiveness and resourcefulness when push came to shove, seemingly constructing plans that outdid what other members of the team could put together, and showing remarkable bravery in the execution of those plans. It's not all down to the other team members playing down their capabilities for Steven's testing either, as Steven has consistently shown that he can find unconventional solutions to problems in a number of episodes. The question of that episode, as we found out later, was whether Steven was good enough to participate in missions on a more consistent basis, and based on the talent he showed, my opinion is that the answer is yes.

He's resourceful, but that means nothing if you can't actually succeed on your missions. He's destroyed far, FAR more than he's saved.

Being a good leader and being a good fighter are two very different things. He's been pretty adept at the former, pushing to maintain harmony in a group often frayed and full of conflict, and while he's not nearly as good at the latter as his companions, he's getting better with practice. The true test of the episode "The Test", after all, was whether he could successfully give the gems some of the confidence they need in raising him, and in so doing temporarily take on the role of mature adult in the group. The crystal gems could definitely use another fighter, capable of taking on monsters efficiently (though your assertion that he could ever pose a threat to Jasper, a gem that gave a good fight to the absolute strongest member of their team, and which would almost certainly best Pearl and Amethyst in one on ones, or perhaps even a two on one, is ludicrous, at least right now), what they really need is what Steven provides. He is their heart, and their different perspective, and perhaps eventually, their leader.

The entire point of Sworn to the sword is hammering home that Steven wants to lead from the front. Which requires being able to go into the thick of things and have the kind of reflexes and judgement he doesn't have. In terms of snap decisions in life or death situations he's woefully unable to cope.

Yeah, and during the first and third of those fights, the other gems would have died without Steven's presence. It's not like he's alone in trying to tackle threats that are possibly beyond his capabilities. And it's not just because of some blind luck that Steven succeeded where they failed in those situations. Against Lapis, the gems would have inevitably been destroyed had they not had access to Steven's empathy, and against Jasper, they almost certainly would have died had they not had access to his shield. If you're trying to argue that Steven isn't prepared to adventure with the crew in his current state, then these aren't the situations to point to. As for Peridot, as I've pointed out, I don't think that Steven was necessarily wrong to take a diplomatic stance with her. It's worked before, after all.

They would have died anyway had Steven not developed a special powers otherwise that were totally independent of his actual capabilities as a person. If he didn't conveniently get healing powers or become immune to force fields his intervention would have been meaningless and that'd be it for everyone.

Which is the problem. Steven's solution to every single major problem is to just kind of stumble into it with powers he pulls out his ass.

He seems pretty willing to acknowledge it, given several episodes where he's done so. I'm not entirely sure what your point is in pointing out how big and dangerous the homeworld gems are.

He's willing to talk about it(very rarely), but not act like it.

[Fragenstein]

They would have died anyway had Steven not developed a special powers otherwise that were totally independent of his actual capabilities as a person. If he didn't conveniently get healing powers or become immune to force fields his intervention would have been meaningless and that'd be it for everyone.

Which is the problem. Steven's solution to every single major problem is to just kind of stumble into it with powers he pulls out his ass.

I really want to agree with you on this, because yeah... it bugs me as well. But Steven's 'suddenly new' powers seem to be tied in too well with the overall story.

Actually being able to heal seems secondary to establishing a connection to Rose. The more he demonstrates a connection to Rose, the more the gems seem to see him as a surrogate Rose. That's important -- or, at least, that's how I seem to be interpreting it. He needs to be his mother's son in order to adopt any sort of significant role with his team.

Being immune to the force-field shows the ancient arrogance of the Homeworld gems, which is perhaps their greatest weakness. The cells were designed to hold the quasi-real bodies of their own race, which seem to be formed from gem energy and force of will. Humans are just insignificant, blobby meat-sacks who popped up in the last few thousand years. Why even bother adjusting their methods of captivity to hold something like that? It would be like a modern earth prison designed to keep out cockroaches and mosquitos.

They only threw him in there in the first place because they recognized Rose's energy within him, and thought his body was of the same imaginary composition as the rest of the race.

[eggynack]

He's resourceful, but that means nothing if you can't actually succeed on your missions. He's destroyed far, FAR more than he's saved.

It means, and has meant, a lot. It doesn't seem like this was a one time all or nothing test of his prowess. It was part of an ongoing evaluation of his capabilities, to determine whether he's ready to continue being evaluated in that manner. And he's probably saved more than he's destroyed, given that he's stopped most of the problems he's caused and solved some that he didn't cause.

The entire point of Sworn to the sword is hammering home that Steven wants to lead from the front. Which requires being able to go into the thick of things and have the kind of reflexes and judgement he doesn't have. In terms of snap decisions in life or death situations he's woefully unable to cope.

And until the exact point where he became somewhat capable of doing so, being an active fighter wasn't necessarily a part of his plans. He makes decisions that reflect the situations that he's in. Reflexes and judgement, that comes from experience, a set of which he's been developing and honing the entire series. That's what going on missions is for. He's definitely not ready to lead the team right now, but the question is whether he ever will be ready, and I suspect he will be.

They would have died anyway had Steven not developed a special powers otherwise that were totally independent of his actual capabilities as a person. If he didn't conveniently get healing powers or become immune to force fields his intervention would have been meaningless and that'd be it for everyone.

His powers were critical, but similarly critical were the decisions underlying the use of those powers. In the case of Lapis, that decision was to try diplomacy against someone who appeared malicious, and we cannot know that he would have failed had he lacked healing. In the case of Jasper, it was the decision to go back, a decision that was predicated on his ability to help with his shield, and then he used that shield. As I've often pointed out, the actual escape from jail was largely incidental from a characterization standpoint compared to protecting the team from laser blasts.

Which is the problem. Steven's solution to every single major problem is to just kind of stumble into it with powers he pulls out his ass.

You mean the powers that were largely developed awhile before the episodes where you're claiming they were used, usually in contexts where their use is non-essential? That seems to be the opposite of pulling powers out of your ass to me.

He's willing to talk about it(very rarely), but not act like it.

He seems to act like it plenty in the episodes where it comes up, plunging into the issues head first when he sees the opportunity in Chille Tid, helping Garnet to overcome her issues in the short term to avert disaster at the hands of homeworld related matters in Keeping it Together, and deciding to take up training in Sworn to the Sword. He wasn't perfect in Joy Ride, but you can't really expect perfection, given that he's a character with flaws. Wouldn't want to hold him to a higher standard than we hold the other gems to.

[Jayngfet]

I really want to agree with you on this, because yeah... it bugs me as well. But Steven's 'suddenly new' powers seem to be tied in too well with the overall story.

Actually being able to heal seems secondary to establishing a connection to Rose. The more he demonstrates a connection to Rose, the more the gems seem to see him as a surrogate Rose. That's important -- or, at least, that's how I seem to be interpreting it. He needs to be his mother's son in order to adopt any sort of significant role with his team.

Being immune to the force-field shows the ancient arrogance of the Homeworld gems, which is perhaps their greatest weakness. The cells were designed to hold the quasi-real bodies of their own race, which seem to be formed from gem energy and force of will. Humans are just insignificant, blobby meat-sacks who popped up in the last few thousand years. Why even bother adjusting their methods of captivity to hold something like that? It would be like a modern earth prison designed to keep out cockroaches and mosquitos.

They only threw him in there in the first place because they recognized Rose's energy within him, and thought his body was of the same imaginary composition as the rest of the race.

Well there's a couple of problems with that. Mainly because the "ancient arrogance" doesn't really fit in with their M.O. their entire thing seems to basically be high tech superstuff that's immune to anything the gems can throw at them, hence why even their red eye took so much of a beating and their battleship was basically invincible. The healing thing wasn't as bad, but it still felt just a bit ...forced to me. Part of this is because it functions as a "get out of drama free" card, because if Steven can repair super heavy damage at that rate then there's no real risk even if the enemy scores a critical hit, since hocking a loogie solves any battle damage issues on the spot. But partially also because of the fact that being his mothers son is what I feel the opposite of what Steven needs to be.

Rose may have saved the earth, but at tremendous cost and at great sacrifice. She's basically what happens when you get a C- where it counts: Your friends die and the survivors are left with deep personal scars that may never heal. Her shield saving a few is the metaphorical raft home that pushed her up a bit, and she ultimately saved the earth, but her counterpart escaped and her friends who looked so peaceful in the bathouse were buried in shreds for it.

Steven needs to surpass Rose. He needs to be everything she never could be. The show itself has a decent understanding of that, given where it's going, but it's not articulating it quite well enough. He needs to be his own man and do his own thing, and prove that, even with the things the previous leader barely hanging on left him, he can do better and forge his own path. Playing around with hand-me-downs he gets at a convenient time isn't nearly the same thing.

It means, and has meant, a lot. It doesn't seem like this was a one time all or nothing test of his prowess. It was part of an ongoing evaluation of his capabilities, to determine whether he's ready to continue being evaluated in that manner. And he's probably saved more than he's destroyed, given that he's stopped most of the problems he's caused and solved some that he didn't cause.

His resourcefulness didn't save the sea spire. Or keep intact the time machine that, lets be honest, could have undone huge gobs of other damage on it's own. He didn't manage to think his way out of any of the trials when tested(weather or not he "passed" is irrelevant, given he still blew all the individual components).

And until the exact point where he became somewhat capable of doing so, being an active fighter wasn't necessarily a part of his plans. He makes decisions that reflect the situations that he's in. Reflexes and judgement, that comes from experience, a set of which he's been developing and honing the entire series. That's what going on missions is for. He's definitely not ready to lead the team right now, but the question is whether he ever will be ready, and I suspect he will be.

Reflexes and judgement aren't his strong suit. Because again, he failed five reflex and judgement based trials(and lets get real, the memory based one was a softball. It was a pattern of four squares that was repeated multiple times).

Besides, even if he had amazing combat reflexes and passed it with flying colors he's still missing one vital element every good leader needs: foresight and planning. You can't really just react to situations as they come, you need to do your homework and plan ahead for the next challenge before it hits you blindsided.

It's a trait that can be learned, true, but he hasn't really indicated that he's been willing to.

His powers were critical, but similarly critical were the decisions underlying the use of those powers. In the case of Lapis, that decision was to try diplomacy against someone who appeared malicious, and we cannot know that he would have failed had he lacked healing. In the case of Jasper, it was the decision to go back, a decision that was predicated on his ability to help with his shield, and then he used that shield. As I've often pointed out, the actual escape from jail was largely incidental from a characterization standpoint compared to protecting the team from laser blasts.

Here's the thing though. You're still judging it moment to moment. Characterization wise if we take that as a test, Steven kind of failed it before the episode even began. Characterization wise in the preceeding episode he'd been warned with ample time and should have been planning for the imminent battle, or at least as a kid trying to and screwing up in a way to establish he has potential, but isn't there yet. Instead he screwed around with his friend while other people did the planning and acted on it without even telling him. That they didn't tell him in a critical moment like this shows that they still don't actually consider him a member of the team.

You mean the powers that were largely developed awhile before the episodes where you're claiming they were used, usually in contexts where their use is non-essential? That seems to be the opposite of pulling powers out of your ass to me.

Steven had one power developed before hand: His spit. All the others, force fields, dream powers, ect, came up in that episode as the problem came up.

He seems to act like it plenty in the episodes where it comes up, plunging into the issues head first when he sees the opportunity in Chille Tid, helping Garnet to overcome her issues in the short term to avert disaster at the hands of homeworld related matters in Keeping it Together, and deciding to take up training in Sworn to the Sword. He wasn't perfect in Joy Ride, but you can't really expect perfection, given that he's a character with flaws. Wouldn't want to hold him to a higher standard than we hold the other gems to.

The thing about other gems and their flaws is that the writers aren't nearly so afraid to show Pearl's ugly side: that she's high and mighty, thinks less of others, and ovelry proud and jealous. Likewise Amethyst's flippant disregard of others to the same degree, her sloppiness, and her self hatred, have come up multiple times as well. Garnet has a similar issue to a lesser degree, but it's still clear she's haunted by the ugly things that happened in the past and anything related to it will cause her to seize up.

Steven's flaws are given basically a bare minimum by comparison and the show seems loath to admit he screws up in a meaningful way.

[Fawkes]

I agree. The "grade" he got on the test was just about irrelevant, and the idea that the gems would hinge their opinion of Steven's capabilities on something as arbitrary as the pass/fail mechanics of our grade scale doesn't make much sense.

This 100%. The results of the mission were never the test - the actual Sea Spire was unimportant. The gems were looking at how well Steven did under pressure in a mission environment. They found him more resourceful and better at problem-solving than they probably expected, enough so to be useful in the field, but found that he was still scatter-brained enough to lose a mission-critical item, which is A) a fixable problem, and B) utterly avoidable if they just have someone else keep an eye on mission critical goods.

The entire point of Sworn to the sword is hammering home that Steven wants to lead from the front.

No, no, no. The point of Sworn to the Sword is that Steven doesn't want people dying for him. He doesn't want to be Connie's liege, he wants to be her friend.

[Jayngfet]

No, no, no. The point of Sworn to the Sword is that Steven doesn't want people dying for him. He doesn't want to be Connie's liege, he wants to be her friend.

...and he does that by not leading from the back and sending people to die for him. Which means he needs to be there in the thick of things.

[Ryotaiku]

I just caught up to episode 41.

Spoiler

Show

That Amigara Fault reference scared the hell out of me.

[Lurkmoar]

I just caught up to episode 41.

Spoiler

Show

That Amigara Fault reference scared the hell out of me.

Spoiler

Show

Drr... drr... drr...

""Si-sir! It's slowly coming this way!"

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler

Show

Drr... drr... drr...

""Si-sir! It's slowly coming this way!"

Spoiler

Show

He means the bit about all the people holes in the wall and how this hole was made for meeeeeee.

[Rater202]

...and he does that by not leading from the back and sending people to die for him. Which means he needs to be there in the thick of things.

Is leading from the front magically a bad thing now? I could have sworn that leading from the front was supposed to be an admirable thing.

[Jayngfet]

Is leading from the front magically a bad thing now? I could have sworn that leading from the front was supposed to be an admirable thing.

It is ...when you're capable of doing it.

Can you seriously imagine Steven, the guy who can't remember a simple pattern spelled out in front of him, can't figure out an attack pattern spelled out in front of him, can't stop an enemy plan when spelled out for him, reveals his position to the enemy for no reason, gets his ass handed to him a good 90% of the time, and can't plan ahead or ask follow up questions to save his life, being an effective leader in the thick of combat?

The instant he let his defenses slip, as he so often does, he's going to take an arrow or bullet and that'll be the end of it. Or the instant he gets intel about the enemy and forgets to ask basic questions about who's and why's. Or the moment someone he's been called upon to remember the abilities of faces him, but he either wasn't paying attention or forgot the important bits.

Steven Universe will not have infinity seasons for him to magically turn into something that looks like an effective leader. He's got this one, and the one after that of unknown length, and that's probably it. Cartoon Network is focusing on other shows right now because this one, along with everything else in their stable, is doing half the ratings it did even a couple of years ago. If he's meant to be built up as the leader Sugar better get her ass moving and start building because that structure isn't even close to done.