Fighter Redux, Lodoss-style

[Lord Iames Osari]

As the title suggests, this is a redo of the Fighter class inspired in large part by my recent exposure to the old D&D anime classic, Record of Lodoss War.

HD: d10.
Skills: As standard fighter.

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Bonus feat, deflect ray
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Bonus feat
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Deflect line
4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Bonus feat
5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Deflect cone
6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Bonus feat
7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Evasion
8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Bonus feat
9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Improved deflect ray
10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Bonus feat
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Reflect ray (close)
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Bonus feat
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Reflect line (close)
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Bonus feat
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Reflect ray (medium)
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Bonus feat
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Reflect line (medium)
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Bonus feat
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Reflect ray (long)
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Bonus feat, forceful reflection, reflect line (long)[/table]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As standard fighter.
Bonus Feats: As standard fighter.
Deflect Ray (Ex): At 1st level, the fighter gains the ability to deflect ray attacks with his weapon or shield. The fighter makes a Defense check (1d20 + Defense bonus + Dex mod + shield bonus, if any) against the ranged touch attack roll of the ray. (If you do not use the Defense bonus variant, make this a Dex-based opposed attack roll instead.) If the fighter wins, the ray is deflected harmlessly by his weapon or shield. The fighter can only deflect rays aimed at himself or someone to whom he is providing cover. The fighter must be aware of the attack to use this ability and cannot be flat-footed. Using this ability counts as an attack of opportunity.
Deflect Line (Ex): At 3rd level, the fighter gains the ability to deflect line effects with his weapon or shield. The fighter makes a Defense check (1d20 + Defense bonus + Dex mod + shield bonus, if any) against the save DC of the line. (If you do not use the Defense bonus variant, make this a Dex-based attack roll instead.) If the fighter wins, the line is split by his weapon or shield and dissipates harmlessly. The fighter can only deflect lines which would affect a square he occupies. The fighter must be aware of the attack to use this ability and cannot be flat-footed. Using this ability counts as an attack of opportunity.
Deflect Cone (Ex): At 5th level, the fighter gains the ability to deflect cone effects with his weapon or shield. The fighter makes a Defense check (1d20 + Defense bonus + Dex mod + shield bonus, if any) against the save DC of the cone. (If you do not use the Defense bonus variant, make this a Dex-based attack roll instead.) If the fighter wins, the cone is split by his weapon or shield, creating a smaller cone in which there is no effect, which goes from the fighter's square to the edge of the deflected cone. The fighter can only deflect cones which would affect a square he occupies. The fighter must be aware of the attack to use this ability and cannot be flat-footed. Using this ability counts as an attack of opportunity.
Evasion (Ex): At 7th level, the fighter gains the evasion ability, as the rogue ability.
Improved Deflect Ray (Ex): At 9th level, the fighter gains the ability to deflect rays aimed at allies who are adjacent to him. The fighter must still be aware of the attack to use this ability and cannot be flat-footed. Using this ability counts as an attack of opportunity.
Reflect Ray (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter gains the ability to redirect a ray he has already deflected at the target of his choice within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less. The fighter must succeed at a ranged touch attack with a -4 penalty in order to hit his target.

At 15th level, this ability improves. The fighter can now redirect a deflected ray at a target within medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.

At 19th level, this ability reaches its peak. The fighter can now redirect a deflected ray at a target within long range (400 ft. + 40 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.
Reflect Line (Ex): At 13th level, the fighter gains the ability to redirect a line he has already deflected at the target of his choice within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected line (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less. The save DC for the line is reduced by 4.

At 17th level, this ability improves. The fighter can now reflect a deflected line at a target within medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected line (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.

At 20th level, this ability reaches its peak. The fighter can now redirect a deflected line at a target within long range (400 ft. + 40 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected line (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.
Forceful Reflection (Ex): At 20th level, add 5 feet to the maximum range of all reflected rays and lines for every point by which the fighter's Defense check or opposed attack roll exceed the ranged touch attack result or save DC. The fighter receives a +1 bonus on the ranged touch attack or save DC for every point by which the fighter's Defense check or opposed attack roll exceed the ranged touch attack result or save DC.

[icke]

Hmm. I like the flavor of it, very much and I would gladly see it incorporated into the D&D game. But.

1) Don't only allow the fighter to do this, make it available for all classes, either as a feat chain with BAB requirements or as a combat maneuver similar to Disarm or Trip. Otherwise, the fighter would be too powerfull compared to other classes.

2) D&D magical area/ray effects don't care about their targets' equipment, so one would have to revise the spell attacking rules to make up for this possibility. As an option, spellcasters could use their base attack bonus or their caster level, whatever is higher.

I'll meditate over it, maybe there's a solution without inventing a completely new game system.

3) If a character can deflect magical attacks with a weapon, what can he do with a shield? It would be even easier to hide behind a large or tower shield from spell effects than behind a weapon.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Thank you.

1) There's only one problem I have with doing that: while it will make a fighter who selects that feat chain able to better face off against casters, it's feat-intensive enough that he wouldn't be able to do much else. Of course, there's nothing saying that there can't be feats that allow other characters to do these things, but this is really about making the fighter better vs. casters. I'll be revising the bard and the monk later as well, but for now, I'm focusing on the fighter.

2) I tried to fit these abilities into the existing rules; and really, since an optimized wizard is going to be using mostly battlefield control spells rather than direct damage spells (which are the majority of ray, line, and cone effects), it's really not as powerful as one might expect.

3) I hadn't thought of that, for some reason, but it makes just as much sense.

[Yakk]

Is the ability to deflect mostly direct damage spells good for game balance?

It weakens rays/lines/cones, which as you note tend not to be the most powerful caster spells. Rays are sometimes rather powerful, but they only affect a single target.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

One problem: Fighters tend to wear heavy armor. This makes the monk ability Evasion pointless, as it doesn't work in armor.

You might also want to require an equipped shield to be able to deflect the AE lines and cones, as it seems much more plausable than with a sword. Plus it finally makes equipping a shield worth something again.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Good points, all of you. I'll change the evasion ability to work like the rogue's, and how about if you get to add your shield's bonus to the deflection check?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Good points, all of you. I'll change the evasion ability to work like the rogue's, and how about if you get to add your shield's bonus to the deflection check?

You might want to define 'Defense Bonus' a bit more. Some would say that it is simply your AC. If you change it to 'Shield Bonus', then you do several things simultaniously. First, you clearly point out that only your shield bonus works, not just armor bonus or deflection bonus or natural armor bonus or any other kind of bonus, which means tanks clanking around with an AC over 50 can't just bat them aside easily. Secondly, it makes it clear that it is easier with a shield, but might be possible to do without one. Third, it drastically limits your check modifier, which makes it difficult for a fighter to pull off consistantly, so as to not make all lines, cones, and rays nerfed out of existance. Shield bonus + Dex Bonus, and maybe add in Deflection bonus to AC, those whould be the only three modifiers to the D20 check. This makes it not unreasonable to obtain, but not certian either. In effect, if your Dex bonus is equal to your opponent mage's casting stat, then it's just your shield bonus vs the level of the spell, and luck of the dice.

[Lord Iames Osari]

The Defense bonus is a variant rule that can be found here. I use a similar, but different, version of this variant in my homebrew campaign, but this should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Also, for those who don't use the Defense bonus variant, I suggest using an opposed attack roll mechanic.

[Yakk]

Wizards get +10 to hit, Fighters get +12 to Defence.

Delta: 2 points in favour of fighter.

Wizards get +10 to hit, Fighters get +20 to Defence.

Delta: 10 points in favour of fighter.

The difference is huge.

[Lord Iames Osari]

So? About time the fighter got an ability that lets him kick the wizard's butt at something.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wizards get +10 to hit, Fighters get +12 to Defence.

Delta: 2 points in favour of fighter.

Wizards get +10 to hit, Fighters get +20 to Defence.

Delta: 10 points in favour of fighter.

The difference is huge.

+12 defense I saw, where did you get +20 defense from?

Besides, all that defense isn't going to do a whole lot of good when the wizard casts PAO and turns him into a Newt.

[Lord Iames Osari]

If you use the opposed attack roll version, it's a +20.

[jlousivy]

Only thing i really see a problem with this is the reflect ray.
the range of reflection should not exceed the spells original casting range:
ie: scorching ray has a 25ft base range
the wizard lvl 20 who is using scorching ray for whatever reason
wants to hit the bad guy who is a good 350 ft away.
all he'd have to do is shoot it at his buddy fighter to deflect it at the guy way over yonder....

[Lord Iames Osari]

Only thing i really see a problem with this is the reflect ray.
the range of reflection should not exceed the spells original casting range:
ie: scorching ray has a 25ft base range
the wizard lvl 20 who is using scorching ray for whatever reason
wants to hit the bad guy who is a good 350 ft away.
all he'd have to do is shoot it at his buddy fighter to deflect it at the guy way over yonder....

I already addressed this problem.

Reflect Ray (Ex): At 11th level, the fighter gains the ability to redirect a ray he has already deflected at the target of his choice within close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less. The fighter must succeed at a ranged touch attack with a -4 penalty in order to hit his target.

At 15th level, this ability improves. The fighter can now redirect a deflected ray at a target within medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.

At 19th level, this ability reaches its peak. The fighter can now redirect a deflected ray at a target within long range (400 ft. + 40 ft./level, again using half the fighter's class levels to determine his effective caster level), or the maximum range of the deflected ray (including the distance from the original caster to the fighter), whichever is less.

[jlousivy]

*bah*
stupid me not reading completely (in my defence i was in my calculus class)

[Wonderboy]

So, why do they reflect spells?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Why? Because it's cool and gives them at least a fighting chance against casters.

[Yakk]

It just means "don't ever use rays, cones or line spells". Removing line and cone spells is not a way to make wizards more balanced -- I can't think of a line or cone spell that is particularly game breaking.

I can think of a few rays, I'll admit.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Ok, how about waves of fatigue/exhaustion?

[Sactheminions]

If you're basing this on Record of Lodoss War, you need to add that basic figthers of low level lose their grip on their sword about once per encounter. At least once.

[Lord Iames Osari]

*snicker* I said based in large part, not based in its entirety.

[icke]

Thank you.

1) There's only one problem I have with doing that: while it will make a fighter who selects that feat chain able to better face off against casters, it's feat-intensive enough that he wouldn't be able to do much else. Of course, there's nothing saying that there can't be feats that allow other characters to do these things, but this is really about making the fighter better vs. casters. I'll be revising the bard and the monk later as well, but for now, I'm focusing on the fighter.

2) I tried to fit these abilities into the existing rules; and really, since an optimized wizard is going to be using mostly battlefield control spells rather than direct damage spells (which are the majority of ray, line, and cone effects), it's really not as powerful as one might expect.

3) I hadn't thought of that, for some reason, but it makes just as much sense.

1) If Your fighter wants to do everything You propose here, yes, this will eat a lot of feats. But this is even more a reason not to make these fighter-only abilities, they're too powerfull to be restricted to only one class. Plus, the fighter doesn't have to choose all of these.

2) and 3) Let the defender choose: either take the usual attack from the caster, against touch AC(or the reflex save against lines and cones), or ready an action to use Deflect ... by rolling 1d20 + BAB + (DEX or + shield bonus, whatever is higher) against 2d20 + caster level + spellcasting ability of the caster. You shouldn't allow deflection to work as a passive protection, so if no action is readied or if no action can be readied(surprise etc.) no deflection is possible.

[Darkshade]

you know their is an epic chain of feats for the ray part of this
Infinite Deflection
Exceptional Deflection
Reflect Arrows

i had a 3.0 rogue at 42nd level with all of those who never had to worry about those pesky ray spells.



or any other kind of projectile

[Lord Iames Osari]

1) If Your fighter wants to do everything You propose here, yes, this will eat a lot of feats. But this is even more a reason not to make these fighter-only abilities, they're too powerfull to be restricted to only one class. Plus, the fighter doesn't have to choose all of these.

2) and 3) Let the defender choose: either take the usual attack from the caster, against touch AC(or the reflex save against lines and cones), or ready an action to use Deflect ... by rolling 1d20 + BAB + (DEX or + shield bonus, whatever is higher) against 2d20 + caster level + spellcasting ability of the caster. You shouldn't allow deflection to work as a passive protection, so if no action is readied or if no action can be readied(surprise etc.) no deflection is possible.

Eh. It's not something you really have to prepare to do. Do you have to ready an action to take an AoO? Nope. You see the opening or the threat, you act.

[Darkshade]

ah but then a good addition would be just like with attacks of opportunity that you cannot be flat-footed to use the ability, and also you could allow combat reflexes to let you do it flat-footed...

come to think of it you are kind of "attacking" the spell effect, prehaps it should cost an attack of opportunity as a balancing factor?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Good call. Very good call.

[Raum]

I'd suggest using an immediate action to deflect / reflect rather than an AoO. Some questions for you...do you intend for the fighter to win almost every opposed roll when deflecting / reflecting the spells? If so, I'd just drop the roll mechanic entirely, it'll make combat quicker. If not, you need a mechanic that isn't quite so weighted towards the fighter.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I hear you on the immediate action.

AS for the opposed roll mechanic... if you use the Defense bonus variant, it's actually not that weighted in the fighter's favor, but I can see how the opposed attack roll is. I'll mull it over and make some changes.

[Darkshade]

imho an immediate action that costs an attack of opportunity would add a little more balance

[Lord Iames Osari]

You can only take 1 immediate action a round.