Awooooo...

[ExHunterEmerald]

Howdy howdy, kids!

I'm looking at making a werewolf character, and I was thinking a fighter who focuses on unarmed strikes. I was thinking that I could take feats that would help me as both a werewolf and a human in the fight. I don't have any specifics on level yet, but I don't think I'll need to for the basics.

So, what should I look at? Improved Unarmed and Natural strike feats, etc?

[Telonius]

A two-level dip in Monk comes to mind. It'll help out your saves and give you some feats that you would've taken anyway as Fighter bonus feats. You lose one point in BAB, but it's worth it for the increase to 1d6's instead of 1d4's on unarmed attacks. (It'll also grant you Evasion, but you might not be using that so often unless you have a mithral breastplate).

You can power attack on an Unarmed or Natural strike, so power attack.

[Golthur]

Quick, someone send up the Shazzbaa signal!

She's the local werecreature-as-a-character expert.

[Piccamo]

In Tome of Battle there is a feat called Superior Unarmed Strike that increases monk damage from Unarmed Strike, or can give you extra damage if you are not a monk. Were you considering a natural or afflicted werewolf?

[Indoril]

Quick, someone send up the Shazzbaa signal!

She's the local werecreature-as-a-character expert.

I'm rather amused by this.

[Frosty Flake]

No, Be a Swordsage and focus on the crazy jumping-tiger-gores-humans-messily style so you could run around naked tearing through things and still be a pretty effective character. Mmm... 5-foot step after every attack...

[Captain van der Decken]

Nah, Warblade, I say. But yeah, Tiger Claw style.

Dipping monk is a bad idea if you want improved unarmed strike. With 2 monk levels, you'll have d8 fist damage instead of 2d6 by 20.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Mwahahahaha. Ideas. Oh, and I'm going to go for an afflicted.
The DM said he might make this a gestalt game (assuming this gets off the ground), so I might do a monk/whatever combo.
...Oh man, monk/warblade gestalt with tiger claw maneuvers.
If that plays out...this is gonna be FUN.

[Fax Celestis]

If you're doing gestalt, Monk/Swordsage has better synergy, and would let you do Werewolf Judo, in the form of the Setting Sun discipline.

There's nothing quite like flinging your opponent thirty feet and then jumping onto him.

[Frosty Flake]

But don't werewolves just get claws? that can then be improved with feats? Besides, the whole idea of going swordsage is to get more gore-splattering attacks per encounter and have the unarmoured bonus to AC from Wis, which a werewolf should get anyways to help it's perceptive and survival skills... and the Track feat, so it can hunt down a maul the weaklings humans... I should make a werewolf swordsage antagonist for my game!

[Telonius]

Nah, Warblade, I say. But yeah, Tiger Claw style.

Dipping monk is a bad idea if you want improved unarmed strike. With 2 monk levels, you'll have d8 fist damage instead of 2d6 by 20.

Hmm, Warblade? Don't have ToB, and my books are at home, so I'm just going from SRD and some outside online sources for Complete series base classes. Can you get that 2d6 without ToB sources?

[Darrin]

But don't werewolves just get claws? that can then be improved with feats? Besides, the whole idea of going swordsage is to get more gore-splattering attacks per encounter and have the unarmoured bonus to AC from Wis, which a werewolf should get anyways to help it's perceptive and survival skills... and the Track feat, so it can hunt down a maul the weaklings humans... I should make a werewolf swordsage antagonist for my game!

Not quite optimal... a Monk/SwordSage gets thoroughly blown on BAB, and I'm not sure the Wis bonus stacks. A Monk/Warblade has a bit better BAB, so you're going to get more iterative attacks sooner. A two-level dip into Ranger gets you Track + TWF and full BAB, but delays your initiator level progression. You're probably going to want Shadow Blade, though (I think it works with claws), so a dip into SwordSage (particularly for Assassin's Stance) or at least a Martial Study feat would be good.

[Captain van der Decken]

Hmm, Warblade? Don't have ToB, and my books are at home, so I'm just going from SRD and some outside online sources for Complete series base classes. Can you get that 2d6 without ToB sources?

Don't think you can, unless improved natural attack applies to unarmed strike. Which, if I remember right, doesn't...

[Frosty Flake]

Darrin:
ah, you assume I wanted to keep monk... when in fact Swordsage/Warblade would be better! full BAB, Full saves and both your classes count and extra 1/2 for the other in regards to getting menouvers... you can get level nine killy-goodness by level 12! plus more stances... and you can fill in all the unarmed stuff with feats. Who needs monk?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Don't think you can, unless improved natural attack applies to unarmed strike. Which, if I remember right, doesn't...

It applies to the Monk's Unarmed Strikes, but not generally.

[Piccamo]

Darrin:
ah, you assume I wanted to keep monk... when in fact Swordsage/Warblade would be better! full BAB, Full saves and both your classes count and extra 1/2 for the other in regards to getting menouvers... you can get level nine killy-goodness by level 12! plus more stances... and you can fill in all the unarmed stuff with feats. Who needs monk?

While ToB classes are good, they are not the be-all, end-all that you seem to make them out to be. There are still other good melee combinations out there, give them a chance, too

[ExHunterEmerald]

Hmm, Swordsage/Warblade...
It WOULD help me if I end up wearing armor...
There's an enhancement for armor that lets you keep it while transformed, right? Usually helpful for druids?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Hmm, Swordsage/Warblade...
It WOULD help me if I end up wearing armor...
There's an enhancement for armor that lets you keep it while transformed, right? Usually helpful for druids?

By the RAW, it only works with Wild Shape.

[Captain van der Decken]

I think it's just for wildshape. Though I recall someone homebrewed one that applies to all.

Ooops, ^ beat me to it.

Could you just get armour specifically fitted for your hybrid shape?

It'd mean spending all your time that way, but it would help.

@v CAdv or CW. I'm leaning towards CAdv.

[Fax Celestis]

Yup. Wild. Forget where it is, though.

[ExHunterEmerald]

I'll probably see if I can swing that with my DM. It'd be helpful, to say the least.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Heck, natural lycanthropes are best off staying in their hybrid form for most adventures, save when they enter civilized areas and don't want to frighten everyone.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Heck, natural lycanthropes are best off staying in their hybrid form for most adventures, save when they enter civilized areas and don't want to frighten everyone.

I'm going with afflicted, though.

[Shazzbaa]

Quick, someone send up the Shazzbaa signal!

She's the local werecreature-as-a-character expert.

I came as fast as I could, Commissioner!

Oh, Golthur, you've made my day. However, I'm no character optimiser; I don't know much about non-core classes yet. ^^;

I will say this however -- people have already mentioned that WIS synergy is good, but I feel the need to point out that Control Shape, a completely vital skill for afflicted lycanthropes (unless you plan to be running around with nothing but a bite attack, and making your party members carry all your things), is a WIS-based skill. Also, you get 2 free WIS just for being a lycanthrope.

So, yes, WIS synergy is very good.

And, yeah, the Wild enchantment (p. 219 DMG iirc) doesn't work for Lycanthropes, as their transformation seems to be the only one in D&D that doesn't meld your armour into your new form. Though you could possibly talk your DM into houseruling a version that does (though as I've mentioned before, going into an armour shop and requesting armour specifically designed for lycanthropes raises a whole 'nother issue...)

I am fairly certain that you don't actually lose your armour in hybrid form, though I'm about to go check on that; in fact, since "wolf" is the same size category as "human," there's not even a chance of breaking it IIRC. Lemme go check...

EDIT: Relevant armour section:

Changing Form
Changing form is a standard action. If the change is involuntary, the character performs the change on his next turn following the triggering event. Changing to animal or hybrid form ruins the character's armour and clothing (including any items worn) if the new form is larger than the character's natural form; carried items are simply dropped. Characters can hastily doff clothing while changing, but not armour. Magic armour survives the change if it succeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.

Note the lack of any mention of armour melding with the new form, and the fact that clothing/armour is only ruined if your new form is larger.
Though it appears I was wrong about not losing armour, as all the templates list hybrid form as not gaining the bonus to armour...

I'm actually rather confused by this. What does happen to the armour?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Aw. I like natural lycanthropes. Hybrid mode is like cheating, and is totally worth the extra LA.

[Winged One]

I think it's just for wildshape. Though I recall someone homebrewed one that applies to all.

Ooops, ^ beat me to it.

Could you just get armour specifically fitted for your hybrid shape?

It'd mean spending all your time that way, but it would help.

@v CAdv or CW. I'm leaning towards CAdv.

That was me.

[Frosty Flake]

...why in the world would you wear armour when you could matt your fur with the blood of your enemies and bear the skulls of your most worthy prey as trophys adorning your hybrid war-form, howling as the meek enemy scatters fefore your might!

Ahem.

The Swordsage only gets the AC bonus when wearing light armour or less... does anyone know what the Dex bonus is, if any, in hybrid form? Even light armour would give you a negative to Jump, which would hurt your flesh-tearing goodness.

P.S. Craft(Taxidermy)

While ToB classes are good, they are not the be-all, end-all that you seem to make them out to be. There are still other good melee combinations out there, give them a chance, too

Oh, I know... but I like the idea of the nine swords classes blowing through a bunch of abilities in the beginning of the fight, rather than just being pretty good always... like a bomb vs a machine gun.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Well, the character I have in mind would be an afflicted, not natural, specimen.
Also, there's always mithril breastplate and other penalty reduction.
Good Wis is looking important, yeah.

[Fax Celestis]

For even more strange, you could go Swordsage//Paladin (probably a variant, like the Paladin of Freedom), and get full BAB, div grace, wis to ac, maneuvers, all good saves, and some Wis synergy.

EDIT: Or, for a more natural bent, Swordsage//Spirit Shaman has merit.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

And maybe go into the Grey Guard as soon as possible if he opts for the regular paladin type. I really want to try a Grey Guard some time.