Advanced assassin vines are freaking insane

[Saph]

We ran into an advanced assassin vine at the end of last session. +8 HD, fiendish template, maybe the legendary template or something as well (because it could burrow and change its position).

The thing was an absolute nightmare to deal with. Huge size, over a hundred HP, a 40-foot reach, an attack bonus around +20, damage reduction, and a grapple check so high that the DM didn't even bother rolling dice unless the player got a natural 20. Every round it would drop the PC it currently had from 40 feet in the air, hit and grab another one, then get ready to AoO anyone who tried to move in the entangle field surrounding it. Plus it was immune from or resistant to every single spell we had prepared, not to mention having spell resistance.

The only reason we managed to finally get the thing down was because of the cheesed out druidic avenger/shifter who managed to do 60+ damage to it. Since it killed him in the process, that wasn't exactly a good trade.

Appropriate challenge for a 6th-level party, my ass.

So yeah. If you're looking for a horrendously nasty monster to throw at your PCs, try using one of these. As a PC, if you see one, just run away.

- Saph

[Matthew]

I have heard about these things before. Sounds deadly. Saying that, I find Animated Plants to often be quite deadly, even (A)D&D versions...

[Rigeld2]

We ran into an advanced assassin vine at the end of last session. +8 HD, fiendish template, maybe the legendary template or something as well (because it could burrow and change its position).

Appropriate challenge for a 6th-level party, my ass.

The CR for everything you put up there is 7+"legendary template or something". Depending on how much CR the something adds, it might not have been Appropriate. Suffice it to say, a Fiendish 12HD Assassin Vine is easily an approproate challenge for a 6th level party.

[Saph]

A Fiendish 12HD Assassin Vine is easily an approproate challenge for a 6th level party.

. . . How?

- Saph

[Mewtarthio]

Legendary template? You mean Monster of Legend? That'd be a +2 CR, but it also means that some sort of deity blessed/created the creature to do something particularly special, and I don't think it applies to plants.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

. . . How?

- Saph

It's not really.

An assassin vine is a CR 3, 4 HD plant.

Up the HD to 12. For a plant, every 4 HD only increase its CR by one. So this makes it a CR 5.

However, its size increase adds a +1 to the CR.

12 HD Fiendish creature actually ups the CR by 2.

So you were in essence fighting an 8 CR creature (if thats all it had going for it), which should be incredibly tough, but livable, as it seems you all did.

Good job

(just be sure the DM gives you XP for defeating a CR 8 creature)


However, from what you say, he added even more. I'd say you need to tell your DM to learn how to advance creatures.

[Rigeld2]

. . . How?

- Saph

Because a) it only moves 5' per round b) the DR shouldnt mean much (its just DR/magic) and c) itll average 90hps.

Not that difficult a being. Oh, and no SR. The extra template is what put it over your parties head.

[Saph]

An assassin vine is a CR 3.

Up the HD to 12. For a plant, every 4 HD only increase its CR by one. So this makes it a CR 5.

However, its size increase adds a +1 to the CR.

12 HD Fiendish creature actually ups the CR by 2.

Oh, I see what you mean.

I do think that advancement seems to be much more effective on assassin vines than upon ordinary monsters, though. The extra strength and size effectively negates two of its few weaknesses (having to hit, and then having to win the grapple check).

Dunno exactly what the extra template was - the DM just mentioned the 'legendary' word at some point - but the thing could burrow underground, and do it fast, too. We found this out when we finally got out of range and the vine disappeared and came out of the ground underneath us one round later . . .

- Saph

[Saph]

Because a) it only moves 5' per round b) the DR shouldnt mean much (its just DR/magic) and c) itll average 90hps.

It moved 5' per round on the surface. Underground it was a good deal faster, and by the time we managed to break away it had killed one of the party members anyway.

- Saph

[Mewtarthio]

Not that difficult a being. Oh, and no SR. The extra template is what put it over your parties head.

The SR is from the Fiendish template.

Dunno exactly what the extra template was - the DM just mentioned the 'legendary' word at some point - but the thing could burrow underground, and do it fast, too. We found this out when we finally got out of range and the vine disappeared and came out of the ground underneath us one round later . . .

Oh, he probably just gave him the "This is a freaking boss fight and there is no way in Baator you're getting out of it!" template. It gives the monster the Extraordinary ability to teleport, move quickly, summon rings of fire, etc to catch its prey.

[Rigeld2]

However, its size increase adds a +1 to the CR.

I bow down to your Monster Advancement knowledge, and thanks for catching my error. I was adding it to CR 7, which is easily doable. 8 is a little tougher, but maybe not significantly. I really feel that the 5' speed neuters this little dude.

[Rigeld2]

The SR is from the Fiendish template.

Really, I can read.
edit: meaning I really can read, but somehow missed that.

[Saph]

Oh, he probably just gave him the "This is a freaking boss fight and there is no way in Baator you're getting out of it!" template. It gives the monster the Extraordinary ability to teleport, move quickly, summon rings of fire, etc to catch its prey.

Sounds right. :P

Luckily, that template scales in inverse proportion to how close the party is to death.

- Saph

[Mewtarthio]

Really, I can read.

But you said "No SR" in the quoted section. Did you mean something besides "It doesn't have SR"?

[Rigeld2]

But you said "No SR" in the quoted section. Did you mean something besides "It doesn't have SR"?

See above =x I meant that I can normally read, but this time it eluded me.

[Frosty Flake]

BLASTED PLANTS! I remember a similar run-in my old party and I had to tackle. We (an all-wizard 2nd-ed AD&D party) had been traveling through an ancient and abandoned mountain pass to reach someplace-or-other to get the something to save someone (or something like that) when finally, upon reaching the exit we were assaulted by a multi-limbed flowering monstrosity! It threw the poor gnome and I off a cliff! The gnome had memorized feather fall, no doubt anticipating proximity to cliffs upon exit of the tunnels, I had memorized only a plethora of blasting spells, thinking at every moment we would be attacked by drow or goblins or undead dwarves or something... It was a quick fight for the three remaining magi as one of them brilliantly cast rock to mud to loose the coniferous carnivore's roots from the cliff face, making it tumble down the mountain, past the gnome, to actually survive the fall and mangle the poor little guy when he gently drifted to his doom. On the upside, I think the survivors managed to do whatever it was we were trying to do and I rolled higher intelligence for the next wizard character! (though that doesn't make me any smarter...)

I like it though... The idea of a party getting mauled by some sort of divine or arcane greenhouse experiment seems really funny.

[the_tick_rules]

well i've seen monsters of the same cr be wildy different in threat. my personal fav is bel vs. an ordinary pit fiend.

[Thomas]

That's one great monster. And only one PC died? Sounds like a perfectly appropriate encounter.

[Yakk]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/assassinVine.htm

For reference.

[Person_Man]

Good old plants, immune to Precision Damage, mind effecting effects, poison, etc. Perfect challenge for sneaky players and some spellcasters.

I forget where, but there's a plant creature somewhere that can look like a normal humanoid. I used him as the BBEEF against an Assassin PC who was getting a bit too comfortable killing the strongest enemy in the suprise round of every combat. It was a hilarious encounter (for me).

Though I also put a magical kukri into the game that was capable of Sneak Attack and criticals against undead/plants/constructs/etc and the PC's didn't bother to follow up on the clues in order to find it, so I feel entitled to my schadenfreude.

[Gamebird]

My parties have found themselves ill-equipped to fight assassin vines as well. Each of the two groups faced a single assassin vine, one of which was somewhat advanced (8 or 9 HD). Yeah, they're tough. Part of that is the Entangle which doesn't affect the vine, so it can grapple and lay down the squeeze on anyone trying to melee with it.

[Yakk]

Grease and Web both probably give you 1 round (it has bad reflex saves).
Ray of Exhaustion or Slow helps gimp the creature.

It has crappy dex, so it only gets one AoO. Casters should hold back until melee provoke and consume an AoO, then they can open fire. If the monster never uses the AoO, well then the melee don't have to worry about AoOs.

Energy resistance is per round, not per attack -- so syncronized fireballs, or even a flaming sphere/fireball double whammy is effective.

Acid Arrow works.

Of the above, Slow is the best option. It makes the plant less mobile and less deadly, and is most likely to be loaded as a standard spell.

But ya, animated plants are mean.

[Lord Iames Osari]

No, I'm pretty sure energy resistance is per attack.

[Torger]

We had something similar, but it was on our side.

A Gargantuan Awakened Vine. Not an assassin Vine, a regular one. It was smarter than the bulk of the party (Int 16), completely under our control, and happy to kill anyone who wasn't our friend who came close to the walls of our keep.

[Thomas]

No, I'm pretty sure energy resistance is per attack.

The SRD is actually kind of... vague.

RESISTANCE TO ENERGY A creature with resistance to energy has the ability (usually extraordinary) to ignore some damage of a certain type each round, but it does not have total immunity.
Each resistance ability is defined by what energy type it resists and how many points of damage are resisted. It doesn’t matter whether the damage has a mundane or magical source.
When resistance completely negates the damage from an energy attack, the attack does not disrupt a spell. This resistance does not stack with the resistance that a spell might provide.

At the start it says "each round," but I'm under the impression it's per attack.

However, in the monster abilities...

Resistance to Energy (Ex): A creature with this special quality ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind (commonly acid, cold, fire, or electricity). The entry indicates the amount and type of damage ignored.

So looks like the intention is "per attack."

Some spells are "per attack, maximum per round," though, aren't they?

[Charity]

My Hobgoblins are so going to have laid tracks leading to a false entrance that has one of these little fellas inside... I'd best make it a little one.

[Gamebird]

Heh. My fey creatures have bred/developed/made a type of thorny weed/vine. Nasty thorns. Grows well. Makes a bit of a thicket, greatly reducing speed, like Plant Growth'd areas. They surround their faerie glades with them. With, say, 100' thick ring of it. Then when enemies come calling, they cast Entangle on it. Take damage, have to check vs. Entangle to move at all and if you succeed, you only move a little bit. Next round, repeat. Does wonders to deter foes.

Mix in a few "domesticated" assassin vines and you've got a death-trap.