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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    So, no character development for Durkon -- just reinforcement of his existing prejudices.
    Why do people keep saying this?

    There is PLENTY of room for character development because of what happened here. Just not the character development many of us thought it would be, myself included.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2014-02-18 at 10:26 PM.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
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  2. - Top - End - #182
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Komatik View Post
    Well, there was no proof of that until this point. Giant said Durkon was a nontheistic Cleric,
    No, I didn't. This is what I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.
    All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

    Which this comic is not.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    As someone who was pulling for "one spirit forcibly altered", I am nevertheless pleased by this course for how thoroughly it tosses some rather self-assured arguments on their faces.

    Outside of that, I'm not particularly a fan of this turn of events, though.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2014-02-18 at 10:28 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Also, I don't see why Durkon can't get some character development right now. He still exists, and he shouod have plenty of chances to grow as a result of what he is currently undergoing.
    Lol, ninja'ed.


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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

    Which this comic is not.
    Tricksy Tricksy, Giantiees.
    Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
    Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
    Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
    Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes


    __________________________

    No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb

  6. - Top - End - #186
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

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    Lash and Harry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammal View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #187
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, can't say I'm surprised, Malak did say that he spared Belkar in the memory of Durkon that was, saying this to Durkula himself...And he himself said that he and his mortal Shaman self were separate beings, not to mention if Durkon would be the same as a vampire, it would undermine his sacrifice...But Kudos to those that said Hel would be Durkon’s deity, I thought he would worship Nergal like Malack, if any diety.

  8. - Top - End - #188
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    In order to resurrect him, they would need to stake him. the spell doesn't work on undead unless theyre destroyed first, and many forms of killing a vampire don't leave a body to cast it on.
    Given that a creature dusted by Disintegrate leaves sufficient remains to cast Resurrection, I suspect a dusted vamp would be similarly resurrectable. You'd just have to take care to make sure the vampdust isn't blown away or lost amidst a desert's worth of sand.
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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Valanarch View Post
    I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

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    Lash and Harry.
    I don't, because
    Spoiler
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    It didn't end up well for Lash, nor did she end up actually manipulating Harry much. Character development of Lash aside, she was still fairly impotent in the day to day actions.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    So far as I can tell, a lotta folk are saying this vampire is totally not Durkon. Although his personality is his own... how much does he draw on Durkon's memories? How much of a personal past does he have? Questions I'm looking forward to seeing answered someday.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    He still does have the shield. I don't know about the hammer. You cant see it on his person, but its possible he has it in hammerspace (*groan*) like Elan's lute and rapier, or Belkar's knives. Or Haley's dagger.
    Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    So after my initial hysterics subsided, I'm actually finding this makes Durkon's death/vamping a little easier to deal with, knowing that he's still in there, fighting as much as he can.
    "Dinnae discount tha victories ye have jus' cause ye dinnae plan fer 'em. […] Ye cannae beat yerself up o'er what ye might've done, V. Tha way lies madness." - Durkon Thundershield, Order of the Stick.

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    What Would O-Chul Do?

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by derfenrirwolv View Post
    D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!
    He is indeed, but I think it's really Garm, but I cannot blame you, I myself thought it's Fenris at first.
    Last edited by Oddity222; 2014-02-18 at 10:37 PM. Reason: error

  15. - Top - End - #195
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Everyl View Post
    Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.
    To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.
    THE SCRYING EYE AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Komatik's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    No, I didn't. This is what I said:



    All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

    Which this comic is not.
    ...

    *pout*


    Disappointed somehow at the Buffyverse style vampirism, but I trust you to make something amazing out of it anyway.
    Last edited by Komatik; 2014-02-18 at 10:39 PM.
    Avatar by Kymme
    Nice guy =/= Good
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    I made a vampire template for 3.5e. PEACH?

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.
    I am as well, if only because the Giant has taken the time to draw it on Durkon's belt in the past if he was not holding it.

    But again, hammerspace (*Groan again*). It wouldn't be the first time a tool disappeared until it was needed.

    For that matter, it might become a brick joke about how a D&D player would forget to mention that they retrieve their "Vorpal blade of Killing Things by Looking At Them Sideways" if they get disarmed for some reason.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2014-02-18 at 10:40 PM.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  18. - Top - End - #198
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Komatik's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by David Argall View Post
    Actually, this gives us more reason not to stake the vampire. That should kill both. The Vampire must be raised first, which will not be easy with those vampire powers getting in the way.
    Uh, no. It's entirely possible to raise Lawful Good Dwarven Cleric Durkon Thundershield (who dislikes human ale 'cause it's moose urine) with a good old Resurrection spell, while leaving Durkula, Hel-spawned Demon somewhere nasty where he belongs. It's not a problem at all.

    ...except that you have to stake a high-level evil cleric with no compunctions of killing his old "friends" first. Which is admittedly a bit of a drag on the stake-and-resurrect plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarsir View Post
    So Durkula is a totally different person. Hmmm.

    I'm kind of disappointed just because I love seeing The Giant's takes on alignments and personality. And I think a Good person forced to become Evil is a fascinating development. An evil pretender who knows full-well what he's doing is also a compelling story, just not as unique.

    Anyway, a dramatic end to the chapter and nice hook for the next.
    Agreed.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

    That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.

  20. - Top - End - #200
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    I don't understand how Giant can manage to make stick figures look so epic. How you art?

    In other news, do we know goddess of exactly what Hel is? I presume destruction, just because of the prophecy's wording but we know for sure? A goddess of death and destruction would probably want to release Snarl for giggles, while complete destruction of mortal world wouldn't be a very desirable goal for a goddess of dwarves, evil or disease.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?
    because that popularized the idea. And besides, its Buffy.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

    That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.
    Serious nightmare fuel, indeed.

  24. - Top - End - #204
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Well... sadly that answers all kinds of Durkon related questions.
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Komatik's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    The one positive thing in all of this? A really goddamn super huge one?

    Durkula is smooth, plans ahead, has the power to make things happen. He reminds me of a certain other Lawful Evil Cleric in the comic. And the one thing about that Machiavellian monstrosity with an eyepatch? HE'S AWESOME.

    Avatar by Kymme
    Nice guy =/= Good
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    I made a vampire template for 3.5e. PEACH?

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Well.

    That answers a few questions.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Interesting parallels between "Service is my sole purpose, my lady," Malack's speech about service being the natural order, and Durkon's speech about duty.
    THE SCRYING EYE AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    DUN DUN DUUUUUH!!!!!!

    So, count me onboard with stake-Durkula-and-ressurrect-Durkon people now, this need to be fixed ASAP.

    Giant: thank-you very much for a great conclusion to a story arc that has probably been the hardest for you to produce. I wish you a very productive "time away producing comics" "break"!

    Also, nice touch with Julio flying away, and with V correcting Bandana!
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  29. - Top - End - #209
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    Actually if you look closely, you can see Trigak struggling inside the Durkon's eye who is struggling inside the Durkula's eye.. it's like a soul petrushka
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

    WOW.

    That may just be the best book-ending strip so far. Although we've had some hard-to-top ones.
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