Upcoming TABLE Code Changes

[Jasdoif]

Used to be even easier, though. For me at least. {table], then [/table], done. {table=head] for a header. Automatic column sizing. Automatic table resizing. No having to tell it how many or use two sets of tags for every single item. I don't need customization; I just need to be able to go "whack, done" and not have to worry about going back to tweak settings because my original calibrations were off.

The new VBulletin version has a fancy editor that shows the table as a table. You use the button for the rows and columns like Zherog mentioned...and then you just click in cells and type. You won't even need to see the table BBcode to make a table.

[Jormengand]

Note that using the Pifro class table generator and choosing PIFBB in the formatting drop-down will generate a table formatted in this way.

[Prime32]

Used to be even easier, though. For me at least. [...] Automatic column sizing. Automatic table resizing. No having to tell it how many or use two sets of tags for every single item.

You don't have to do any of those things. Just put [tr][td] at the start of the row, [/td][/tr] at the end, and use [/td][td] instead of |. Heck, it should render just fine if you leave out closing tags (other than [/table]), it's just considered bad form.

Is replacing

{table]
A|B|C
1|2|3
[/table]

with

{table]
[tr][td]A[td]B[td]C
[tr][td]1[td]2[td]3
[/table]

really that bad?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Is there an equivalent to the {colsp=X} tag in the new code?

[Seerow]

Is there an equivalent to the {colsp=X} tag in the new code?

In HTML {td colsp=X} would accomplish this. No idea if that functionality would be supported on the new forum software.

[Jasdoif]

Is there an equivalent to the {colsp=X} tag in the new code?

Rawhide said "There won't be a way to span columns out of the gate" when I asked back on the first page.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Rawhide said "There won't be a way to span columns out of the gate" when I asked back on the first page.

Thanks, I missed that.

[afroakuma]

Is replacing thing with other thing really that bad?

Yup.

C'mon, how long have you known me? You shouldn't need to ask that question.

[Newwby]

I for one am pretty pleased at the timing of this update. I've been holding off on a handful of posts because I don't like the formatting of my current ones, so I was planning a complete formatting rewrite in the near future. This'll give me the kick to do it if I have to go over the tables anyway .

[Rawhide]

Automatic column sizing. Automatic table resizing.

These are not going away.

[The Giant]

I am curious, could you tell us some of the non-table related benefits coming from the forum switch? I assume there are new features that you believe will be more popular, or some other benefits to justify making the upgrade. I think it'd help if instead of "All your tables are broken" we got to hear some of the positive things coming up. Or is there already another topic with something like that that I haven't seen?

I can only address this in broad non-technical terms, but here are some of the features that we expect be enabled (assuming no more technical hitches):

• The ability to hide the website content sidebar indefinitely, rather than just temporarily.
• Integration with my Twitter feed, so you can see things I tweet without having to have a Twitter account or go to Twitter.com. (Also able to be hidden, in case you don't care.)
• Thread prefixes, with each subforum having a list of 0-8 prefix categories (like "3.5 Class" or "Contest" for the Homebrew forum) that append colored labels before the thread title, allowing you to easily see the topics that interest you.
• Thread tagging, allowing you to tag your threads with up to 25 relevant tags for searching and for inclusion in the…
• Tag cloud, for finding threads with related topics. (Again, able to be hidden.)
• For that matter, the Search function will return, allowing you to, you know, search again. Maybe not the day the new forums go live, but shortly thereafter.
• Polls will be back, too, I think. Actually, I need to check with Rawhide on that one, but I think so.
• A mobile-friendly theme, letting you browse the forums on your smartphone much more easily.
• Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

It is also necessary for one or two functions that will hopefully be opened up at a later point that I'm deliberately keeping under my proverbial hat.

So, yeah, a lot of new features. And keep in mind that the decision to switch was made months ago, and we didn't know about the TABLE incompatibility until around December. So by the time it was clear that they absolutely positively wouldn't work together, we were already knee-deep in the switch. That's why we're concentrating on getting the new forums up and running, and any tweaking of the TABLE functions won't happen until later.

Bottom line is that I made the decision that the benefits outweigh this one problem.

[Seerow]

Thanks, Giant!

I figure we'll adapt to the changes, but it is good to hear more about the positive features the change will bring. Lots of stuff there sounds great (especially the tagging, and the mobile theme. I've tried accessing the forums here from my phone a few times, and yeah.. it's kind of painful). I'm looking forward to it.

[Porthos]

[*]Polls will be back, too, I think. Actually, I need to check with Rawhide on that one, but I think so.

If this is true, then you have made my day. No, week. No, year possibly, as this will be INVAULABLE to the Stick Awards that I've been running the last few months.

Much easier to get people's opinions anonymously than having them post in the thread.

So so so looking forward to this if it happens!

*makes buttery pweeeeeeeese eyes at Rawhide*

[Newwby]

• Thread prefixes, with each subforum having a list of 0-8 prefix categories (like "3.5 Class" or "Contest" for the Homebrew forum) that append colored labels before the thread title, allowing you to easily see the topics that interest you.
• Thread tagging, allowing you to tag your threads with up to 25 relevant tags for searching and for inclusion in the…
• Tag cloud, for finding threads with related topics. (Again, able to be hidden.)

The categorisation nut in me just did a small excitement squeal.

Further question - will the new board support any form of independently developed user plugins? Say if I wanted to be automatically notified to replies to my post (e.g. being quoted) or threads I create (without subscribing to the thread).

Somebody please kick me if either thing is already possible and I've not noticed.

[The Giant]

Further question - will the new board support any form of independently developed user plugins? Say if I wanted to be automatically notified to replies to my post (e.g. being quoted) or threads I create (without subscribing to the thread).

No idea. Like I said, I don't know or understand the technical stuff.

[Douglas]

Further question - will the new board support any form of independently developed user plugins? Say if I wanted to be automatically notified to replies to my post (e.g. being quoted) or threads I create (without subscribing to the thread).

Somebody please kick me if either thing is already possible and I've not noticed.

User-side plugins cannot feasibly* do things of that nature. For that sort of thing, it has to be on the server side, which means even if you found an appropriate addon it would have to be investigated and added by Rawhide.

* The only way a user-side plugin could do these things is by regularly polling the server and analyzing the return, which would add a lot of server load in addition to being difficult to properly implement.

[TuggyNE]

• Thread prefixes, with each subforum having a list of 0-8 prefix categories (like "3.5 Class" or "Contest" for the Homebrew forum) that append colored labels before the thread title, allowing you to easily see the topics that interest you.
• Thread tagging, allowing you to tag your threads with up to 25 relevant tags for searching and for inclusion in the…
• Tag cloud, for finding threads with related topics. (Again, able to be hidden.)
• For that matter, the Search function will return, allowing you to, you know, search again. Maybe not the day the new forums go live, but shortly thereafter.

Oh goodness. So much excite I can't even grammar!

[137beth]

Those sound like great changes. I know I definitely will like the twitter feed part (since I don't have a twitter, but want to see OOTS-related stuff), and the polls, and the search, and probably the thread tags.

[Newwby]

User-side plugins cannot feasibly* do things of that nature. For that sort of thing, it has to be on the server side, which means even if you found an appropriate addon it would have to be investigated and added by Rawhide.

* The only way a user-side plugin could do these things is by regularly polling the server and analyzing the return, which would add a lot of server load in addition to being difficult to properly implement.

Apologies I really should have realised that when I wrote it (going to blame tiredness as I haven't slept in some 36 hours atm) - I was just trying to quickly think up a feature I might enjoy as an example.

[Bird]

An in-forum search function is a huge improvement over reliance on Google. This is great news.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thank you so much, giant! Especially the mobile friendly feature!

[Rawhide]

Thank you so much, giant! Especially the mobile friendly feature!

I wouldn't say it's exactly friendly, not yet anyway . But we're working on making it better as we speak!

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Probably the best feature, though, is that it auto-saves unfinished posts so that you can recover them in the event of a crash.

[Douglas]

Probably the best feature, though, is that it auto-saves unfinished posts so that you can recover them in the event of a crash.

If you mean saves on the server, that sounds like it would generate a huge amount of server load. If you mean saves on the client, I don't know how you'd accomplish that without it being part of the browser - and I know some browsers do have it as officially part of the browser already, so I have to wonder if that browser feature somehow got mis-attributed to the forum server software.

[Rawhide]

If you mean saves on the server, that sounds like it would generate a huge amount of server load. If you mean saves on the client, I don't know how you'd accomplish that without it being part of the browser - and I know some browsers do have it as officially part of the browser already, so I have to wonder if that browser feature somehow got mis-attributed to the forum server software.

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(Ignore the slightly misaligned icons for strikethrough and spoiler, already fixed for final version.)

It's a feature of the board software, it uses HTML5 LocalStorage.

[Rawhide]

Here are a few images of tables made by various staff in testing.


This is the popup surface used to make creating a table easy:

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This is a very simple table created using class: outer_border, width: 500, and align: center. Actual code used: table="width: 500, class: outer_border, align: center"

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Another simple table, this time created with no class (or any other options), which means that all the cell borders of normal cells will have no lines. TH was used to make the header cells.

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Nothing fancy here, this table shows off the grid class. Code used: table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"

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I personally think that the gridlines are too thick. I may modify the CSS for this table to thin the gridlines, and create a new CSS with the thick gridlines for people who want them. Or, I might keep them the same and make the thin gridlines a new CSS.

Here's an example of where I will be modifying the CSS. As you can see, the default CSS makes the header cells less pronounced in this instance than the normal ones. Code used: table="width: 500, class: grid"

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Demonstrating that certain complex formatting features work flawlessly within tables:

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A table created with no class, thus no gridlines:

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*No, I don't know what thurst is either. But the fact that the U and I keys are right next to each other might explain it.

This next one will probably get a lot of people salivating. Created with no class (unless you count the fact that it is one) and with "TH" header cells for the top row. Colour was set outside the table. No options set for TABLE at all.

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[Castaras]

I am loving the improvements to table. So much flexibility eeeeee! *bounces around happily*

[Seerow]

Will you be modifying the CSS to make the tables look more like they do now(ie dark header, alternating row colors, matching the forum's color scheme)? Alternatively, are those properties something we will be able to modify ourselves?

[Cheesy74]

We investigated doing a full find and replace for tables. It was impossible without ruining posts without tables and elements of the post outside of tables.

If you guys are able to search by regular expressions on the site (which I can write a small program to do, if needed), you can find/replace table syntax without messing up other posts.

[TuggyNE]

If you guys are able to search by regular expressions on the site

Running regexen over the entirety of the post database? Yeahhhh, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say "that would probably take longer than rebuilding the search index."

[Seerow]

Running regexen over the entirety of the post database? Yeahhhh, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say "that would probably take longer than rebuilding the search index."

I'd guess it's a similar amount of time, but yeah totally not worth doubling the downtime from the transition.