The Declaration of Independance From Your DM

[BlackPhoenix928]

I recently was playing with a group that had a rather poor DM. He was continually trying to force us to do what he wanted us to via completely made up rules and ignoring the established ones, such as saying that a Cleric cast spells only a wizard could cast. In one such case, said cleric tried to cast teleport. When we pointed out that he can't cast that spell, he declared "fine, he's using a scroll then, he still teleports away". When it was pointed out that he had to make a check for that, and he flubbed his check terribly, the DM gave him Power Word: Recall just to get him out. We were a level 3 party. Given that this was a common thread in this campaign, I decided to bring up our grievances in the most dramatic way I could. I made a Declaration of Independence From Your DM, based on the United States' Declaration of Independence. This isn't a topic for political debate, I just thought I'd share something I thought was neat. What follows is my attempt.

The unanimous Declaration of the players of this campaign.

* * * * * When in the Course of a Dungeons and Dragons campaign it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the campaign which they have played under the leadership of another and to assume among them a new leader, a new and more acceptable campaign, a decent respect to the opinions of the leader being replaced requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.*

* * * * * We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Dungeons and Dragons players are equal, that they are endowed by the rules of the game with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are game time, freedom of action and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Dungeon Masters are instituted among Players, deriving their just powers from the consent of the players, — That whenever any Dungeon Master becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the Players to confront or to demote them, and to institute new leadership, laying its foundation on such principles and expecting their campaign to follow such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their enjoyment and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Dungeon Masters long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that players are more disposed to suffer, while mis-rulings are sufferable than to right themselves by removing a Dungeon Master to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same goal to which the players object shows an aim to control them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such a Dungeon Master, and to provide new leaders for their future campaigning. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these players; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former leadership. The history of the present Dungeon Master is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having the direct goal of the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over this group. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.*

(List all grievances with current Dungeon master, one per paragraph, and be as detailed as necessary.)

* * * * * We, therefore, the Representatives of the players of this group, in general agreement, Assembled, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good players of this group, solemnly publish and declare, That this group is, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent of the previous Dungeon Master's leadership, that they are Absolved from all campaigns of the previous Dungeon Master, and that as Free and Independent Players, they have full Power to run campaigns, conclude said campaigns, create house rules, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent Players may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration we mutually pledge to each other our concurrence.

[Lord Raziere]

....

A "Dude, your kind of doing a few things that we think you need to change, because we are not having fun" wasn't good enough for you?

just talk it out with him. don't be theatrical about it! this is not necessary, and it might in fact be detrimental that your being so dramatic about it because it sounds like a joke, or a cartoon!

just go up to him and tell him honestly what he is doing wrong!

Jeeze.

[Sith_Happens]

....

I believe the saying is "Go big or go home."

[Lord Raziere]

I believe the saying is "Go big or go home."

"accomplish not with a hammer, that you can do with a knife"

[BrokenChord]

"accomplish not with a hammer, that you can do with a knife"

You can't deny that in many cases the hammer is more fun.

I like this for legitimately bad DMs, but your DM just sounds like he's of the typical misguided and inexperienced sort. Direct him to a forum like this one for DMing advice (NOT optimization advice, if he gets that and forgets the DM advice all joy in your gaming universe will die) and let him mature into what's really makes a good DM. He'd be top-tier by many Game Masters' Guides' standards, which are all that many people have to go off of (seriously, a lot of those books give actively horrible GMing advice)

[Lord Raziere]

You can't deny that in many cases the hammer is more fun.

yes, and I'd gladly choose a hammer for a game.

for real life? no. knife. this is a real life matter, therefore the knife will probably work better. just like your advice to get him DMing advice.

[KoboldMasteRace]

"He made a single misguided decision/mistake, oh no, we'd better put as much work as we can into making him feel bad, play it off as a joke, lose him as a friend, and then be glad we never let that insufferable failure of a human anywhere near our perfect social roleplaying game ever again."

This is the vibe I'm getting from what you've posted. Seems a little immature. Just tell the guy that you're not cool with what he did, talk it out like people generally go about talking out issues that aren't as important as the friendship itself, and move with whatever comes of that. No need to embarrass or deject him with this, even if it's decided he's not the DM for you.

[Slipperychicken]

Yeah, I don't think you should be so hard on the guy. Unless he's some manner of lighthearted history nerd who would obviously take it well and get a kick out of it.

Also, if you want to go big, there are ways to make paper look old-timey and aged. Bonus points for writing and signing it with a quill.

[ReaderAt2046]

"He made a single misguided decision/mistake, oh no, we'd better put as much work as we can into making him feel bad, play it off as a joke, lose him as a friend, and then be glad we never let that insufferable failure of a human anywhere near our perfect social roleplaying game ever again."

This is the vibe I'm getting from what you've posted. Seems a little immature. Just tell the guy that you're not cool with what he did, talk it out like people generally go about talking out issues that aren't as important as the friendship itself, and move with whatever comes of that. No need to embarrass or deject him with this, even if it's decided he's not the DM for you.

The OP said that the DM did this sort of thing all the time, she only listed one example for brevity's sake. I agree that talking with him first is the better option, but I get the impression things are way past that point.

[(Un)Inspired]

You can't deny that in many cases the hammer is more fun.

I like this for legitimately bad DMs, but your DM just sounds like he's of the typical misguided and inexperienced sort. Direct him to a forum like this one for DMing advice (NOT optimization advice, if he gets that and forgets the DM advice all joy in your gaming universe will die) and let him mature into what's really makes a good DM. He'd be top-tier by many Game Masters' Guides' standards, which are all that many people have to go off of (seriously, a lot of those books give actively horrible GMing advice)

"You can't deny that in many cases the hammer is more fun."
-Confucius

[Knaight]

Yeah, I don't think you should be so hard on the guy. Unless he's some manner of lighthearted history nerd who would obviously take it well and get a kick out of it.

Also, if you want to go big, there are ways to make paper look old-timey and aged. Bonus points for writing and signing it with a quill.

It really depends on how the guy would take it, yes. The actual listing of grievances seems like something really likely to backfire though, even if the guy is a lighthearted history nerd.

[BlackPhoenix928]

To respond to the questioning, this is something they have constantly done despite us repeatedly telling them it isn't okay to do. I have tried everything from showing them these forums, to walking them through how to run encounters and how CR and EL works, to specifically telling them that we weren't interested in him breaking the rules and making up rules on how we are allowed to play in order to control what we do. I'm not actually going to mail this to them or whatever, it was meant to be a joking kind of thing. I brought it up to the group without the DM there as a joke to lighten the mood about the whole thing some. We have, however, repeatedly tried to get him to improve, and he refuses and gets upset when we try, so we have told him that we're done with the campaign.

[BrokenChord]

Ah. My apologies, didn't realize you had already taken steps to fix the problem. I think you made the right decision, but if he was your friend try to keep a bad game from ending that. (I assume you already know this, since you seem like a smart and reasonable person)

In other news, hope your future games go well!

[Alejandro]

To respond to the questioning, this is something they have constantly done despite us repeatedly telling them it isn't okay to do. I have tried everything from showing them these forums, to walking them through how to run encounters and how CR and EL works, to specifically telling them that we weren't interested in him breaking the rules and making up rules on how we are allowed to play in order to control what we do. I'm not actually going to mail this to them or whatever, it was meant to be a joking kind of thing. I brought it up to the group without the DM there as a joke to lighten the mood about the whole thing some. We have, however, repeatedly tried to get him to improve, and he refuses and gets upset when we try, so we have told him that we're done with the campaign.

Good. Your time is valuable, and so is your enjoyment. Crush him and drive him before you. :)

We should write the Bill of Roleplaying Game Rights.

[BWR]

This is a reference that wouldn't be understood by many people I know and play with. It's a bit country specific.
Not to mention it's either a bad joke (as in low quality, not necessarily bad taste) or gross overreaction.

[BlackPhoenix928]

We should write the Bill of Roleplaying Game Rights.

Honestly I feel like this is actually a pretty good idea, if you can't already find it in one of the source books.

[mikeejimbo]

Just to throw my two copper into this discussion: I'd rather get hammered than knifed.

[Alejandro]

Honestly I feel like this is actually a pretty good idea, if you can't already find it in one of the source books.

I just wrote one for fun. :) In this same forum.

[Sal Trebov]

I dunno, the whole line about not undertaking rebellion lightly while under a long-established ruler fits well for a D&D campaign. Especially since you said you've tried talking this guy into trying to improve his style.

I can see why you wouldn't actually give this to him but I agree, it was probably more therapeutic more than anything else. I can't tell if what I'm feeling right now is geek pride or patriotism.

[MonochromeTiger]

I dunno, the whole line about not undertaking rebellion lightly while under a long-established ruler fits well for a D&D campaign. Especially since you said you've tried talking this guy into trying to improve his style.

I can see why you wouldn't actually give this to him but I agree, it was probably more therapeutic more than anything else. I can't tell if what I'm feeling right now is geek pride or patriotism.

throw in some star wars, star trek, and warhammer references and it will likely be entirely geek pride...perhaps a firefly reference too as long as you don't remind anyone the browncoats got their faces beat in and don't make any references to leaves on the wind.

but yeah probably a good thing that was never sent in, the divide between players deciding to leave a campaign that's being DMed badly and players burning bridges completely is a fairly hard one to justify passing.

[Jay R]

I have no problem at all with somebody bringing role-playing to the table.

[QuackParker]

The real tragedy is how inept the DM was at BSing his way into explaining why a cleric could teleport. Umm, hello? Travel Domain perhaps. Or Boots of Teleportation. A number of ways he could give the character an honest means of escape.

[Mono Vertigo]

"You can't deny that in many cases the hammer is more fun."
-Confucius

I thought that was Clarkson. Whatever, same thing.

[BlackPhoenix928]

The real tragedy is how inept the DM was at BSing his way into explaining why a cleric could teleport. Umm, hello? Travel Domain perhaps. Or Boots of Teleportation. A number of ways he could give the character an honest means of escape.

It was a cleric of Erythnul so Travel was out. It was level 15, according to him, so the boots would work just fine. But it was level 15 and we were level 3. He admitted a day or two ago that he didn't even read the DMG in the 2 months he took to prepare the campaign. He had seen me DM and assumed it was an easy job in which you make things up and the players play exactly the way you want them to.

There are no bridges burned at all, and we're moving on to another person in the group that I DMed for, and who I made sure had a copy of the DMG and who I've looked over their campaign stuff and am sure it'll go just fine. Meanwhile, the previous DM has agreed to actually -look- at his stuff before trying again.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

These are the times that try players' souls.

[Lord Raziere]

Neither hammer nor knife. I'd just talk to him and tell him his game isn't that great.

Thats the knife I'm talking about.

[BlackPhoenix928]

These are the times that try players' souls.

Worse things than that have happened in that campaign, but again, we've ended that and he's agreed to actually -read- some of the DMG before trying again.

[Raven777]

We should write the Bill of Roleplaying Game Rights.

There's The Gentlemen's Agreement. It usually gets the job done when laid out before a campaign starts.

[DeusMortuusEst]

yes, and I'd gladly choose a hammer for a game.

for real life? no. knife. this is a real life matter, therefore the knife will probably work better.

Taken out of context this quote is quite terrifying.

[NotScaryBats]

Clerics with the Travel Domain can cast Dimension Door as a fourth, Teleport as a fifth, and Greater Teleport as seventh level spells.

Perhaps the DM knew that and perhaps not, but 'that character can't do that!' is usually not a good thing to complain about in 3.5, where it is pretty easy to get an npc able to use any particular ability the DM wants.