A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Alter Self Spell On Familiar

    Im playing a gnome bard and I have a raven as a familiar.

    Am I able to cast alter self on my raven, so it turns into my gnome and then have it cast inspire Courage?


    If not how would I do this?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ganiseville GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alter Self Spell On Familiar

    Well, there is no way to give it levels in bard. It can use your skill ranks, but not your class features.

    It gains not your stats, but the stats of a typical gnome, IE rolling 10 or 11 for all stats, and applying the gnome racial mods.

    It could LOOK like you, and pretend to BE you, but it isn't you. It's a raven with half your HP, your BAB, and your skill ranks.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RedSorcererGirl

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Post Re: Alter Self Spell On Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by quandong View Post
    Im playing a gnome bard and I have a raven as a familiar. Am I able to cast alter self on my raven, so it turns into my gnome and then have it cast inspire Courage?
    Alter Self can only change a creature into the same type. A raven familiar is a magical beast, while a Gnome is a humanoid. Therefore you can't Alter Self your raven into a Gnome. You need the higher level Polymorph spell or beyond if you want to change a target's creature type.

    Also, Alter Self only changes the outer form, and doesn't give stats, (Ex) or (Su) abilities, or class features. If you want to share your Bardic Music ability with a target, cast the Bard 4 spell Protege (SC) upon it.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alter Self Spell On Familiar

    Unless he's playing PF, where Alter Self only lets you assume a humanoid form. The rest of the point still stands, though.
    Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
    True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
    Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
    Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
    Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Alter Self Spell On Familiar

    Quote Originally Posted by quandong View Post
    Im playing a gnome bard and I have a raven as a familiar.

    Am I able to cast alter self on my raven, so it turns into my gnome and then have it cast inspire Courage?


    If not how would I do this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    Well, there is no way to give it levels in bard. It can use your skill ranks, but not your class features.

    […]

    It's a raven with half your HP, your BAB, and your skill ranks.
    I agree with everything that I've quoted from Fouredged Sword. I am of a different opinion about the rest.

    According to the SRD's description of the Alter Self spell:

    "You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself."

    The first problem with using the Alter Self spell is that its range is Personal, which means that you can cast it only on yourself. However, there's a way around that. According to the SRD's description of familiars:

    "At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit."

    So you can make the Alter Self spell affect your familiar as well as yourself.

    Here's where it gets tricky, and where your DM's opinion may differ from mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser1 View Post
    Alter Self can only change a creature into the same type. A raven familiar is a magical beast, while a Gnome is a humanoid. Therefore you can't Alter Self your raven into a Gnome. You need the higher level Polymorph spell or beyond if you want to change a target's creature type.

    Also, Alter Self only changes the outer form, and doesn't give stats, (Ex) or (Su) abilities, or class features. If you want to share your Bardic Music ability with a target, cast the Bard 4 spell Protege (SC) upon it.
    I can agree with everything I've quoted from Cruiser1.

    Basically, as I see it, when you share the Alter Self spell with your familiar, you can change it into a creature of any species belonging to its own creature type. The target form that you choose for your familiar must be within one size category of its natural raven form, that is, Diminutive, Tiny, or Small.

    A DM who strictly adheres to the rules may make problems for you. According to the rules of familiars, your familiar is a Magical Beast. According to the rules of the Alter Self spell, "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype." So your DM could, by the rules, forbid you to change your familiar into any creature with either the Celestial or Fiendish template. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, most Magical Beasts of Diminutive to Small size are Celestial or Fiendish creatures.

    I would not be so strict; I would allow you to change your familiar into a Celestial dog of Small size, for example, or perhaps into a Fiendish toad of Diminutive size. However, I would not allow your familiar to gain any of the special features or traits of a Celestial or Fiendish creature. Basically, your familiar would function physically like a dog or toad of the Animal type, but it would keep its own mind and therefore still belong to the Magical Beast type. You could give it a Celestial or Fiendish appearance, but you couldn't give it any extraplanar powers.

    Postscript: I forgot to mention a house rule of mine. The rules of the Alter Self spell don't allow you to change your ability scores, but I make an exception to this rule. If you use this spell to increase your size category, I require your Strength score to add +2, and if you reduce your size category, and I require it to add –2, just as if you cast the Enlarge Person spell or the Reduce Person spell, respectively. I also require you to add the inverse modifier to your Dexterity score, that is, –2 if you increase your size category or +2 if you decrease it. No change can reduce any ability score to less than one.
    Last edited by Duke of Urrel; 2014-02-25 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Postscript

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •