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2014-04-04, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-04-12, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
HAY! We're not letting this thread die until we get to my suggested title!
Returning to Disabled vs Staggered: Disabled describes creatures that can be stable and conscious at negative hit points here, but both staggered and unconscious call how creatures with negative hit points as always being unconscious here and here respectively. What entry takes precedence?
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2014-04-12, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Dysfunctions, related to soul and soul-related spells (Trap the Soul, Soul Bind, Soul Shackles, Imprison Soul, Ensul's Soultheft and, maybe, several more):
1. Nowhere in the spell's descriptions was mentioned necessity for target to actually have soul in the first place (And, if you think everyone have souls, just one counter-example: Death Giants)
2. Also, descriptions don't specify how many times target can be affected (So, you can potentially harvest unlimited amount of souls from the very same target and use them to bargain with fiends, or as described in BoVD optional rule "Souls as power")
3. Description of Soul Shackles says:If the subject is hostile, or if the answer to the question was an important secret to it in life, the subject gains a Will saving throw. A successful saving throw indicates that the spell ends and the soul departs to the afterlife.Duration: Instantaneous
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2014-04-12, 08:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
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2014-04-12, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2014-04-12, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Yes, but an average Gnoll, an average Vrock or an average dragon uses the 10,10,10,11,11,11 ability score array. Why should an average human use other scores? It'd be logical to assume that dragons also have their strong and weak abilities, yet they get 'completely' average scores.
Last edited by Inevitability; 2014-04-12 at 10:26 AM.
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2014-04-12, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
The definition of souls is itself a dysfunction. The only place where souls are even slightly defined is somewhere that I can't remember where it says that incorporeal undead creatures are souls (and so anything that could contain their soul contains the creature?) and in creature types in Monster Manual where it mentions that outsiders do not have souls as a unit separate from their bodies.
I suspect that we could make an entire thread devoted to soul dysfunctions. Then again, since this is a popular topic in philosophy, all the dysfunctions could be an elaborate (and seriously nerdy) easter egg by the devs.
What I'm going to guess is up here is that the high variance for NPCs is to give them character. When talking to and interacting with a person, their strengths and flaws have an impact on what they might do or say and may even be outwardly noticeable. When a creature like a gnoll or dragon busts out of concealment to attack someone, the most that is apparent is that it is attacking someone...
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2014-04-12, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
When importing it from Manual of the Planes, the writers of the Spell Compendium saw fit to remove the lines in the Ethereal Mount spell stating that it only works on the Ethereal Plane. They did not, however, see fit to define what the speed of an Ethereal Mount is on any plane other than the Ethereal.
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2014-04-12, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
I posted in the wrong thread, but tell me if this makes sense:
If you look at the wording for heal:
So if you use heal on an undead creature, it refers you to harm, right? Let's take a look at harm:
So you use heal on an undead guy, and RAW it acts like harm, which in turn (because he's undead) works like heal, which works like harm... etc. ad infinitum.
Obviously even the slightest interpretation of RAI will fix this but RAW... derp derp
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2014-04-13, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Not necessarily dysfunctional, but an interesting oddity to think about: Duskblades are not proficient with simple weapons.
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2014-04-13, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Okay, this might be a dysfunction...
Ghost Touch exists for both corporeal and incorporeal. A corporeal creature can use a Ghost Touch weapon against an incorporeal one and vice versa. What stats does an incorporeal creature use when wielding a ghost touch weapon? It doesn't have a strength score! Does he treat it like an undead treats his Con mod for HP? Then what does he use to determine whether he can carry the weapon or not? If weight doesn't matter, then is ghost touch armor still cumbersome and provides penalties when worn by an incorporeal creature?
For that matter, if the weapon and armor that a Spirit Shaman carries has the Ghost Touch property, why does he lose the ability to use it if he goes incorporeal through his Ghost Form ability? If he were to turn incorporeal through some other method, would he still be able to wield his weapon?A wise monk trains both mind and body, but a smart monk is actually a swordsage.
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2014-04-13, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Not a dysfunction, there's a spot in the rules that tells you what to do with a Nonability:
Originally Posted by SRDLast edited by Jack_Simth; 2014-04-13 at 09:20 AM. Reason: My spelling was disfunctional.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2014-04-13, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-04-13, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
The Monster Manual ... III, I think... expanded on the Incorporeal subtype. Everything carried by an incorporeal creature is itself incorporeal. As soon as the
GhostShadow picks up the Ghost Touch weapon, the weapon becomes incorporeal, and thus weightless.
Just don't ask what happens when a Shadow with Ghostly Grasp (libris mortis) decides to pick up a large rock and drop it on someone....Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2014-04-13, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Alright... But why does the Spirit Shaman's Ghost Form ability take away his ability to use his Ghost Touch weapon and armor?
Last edited by Sliver; 2014-04-13 at 10:07 AM.
A wise monk trains both mind and body, but a smart monk is actually a swordsage.
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2014-04-13, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
I know some Knowledge(whatever) covering or not covering things were posted a page or two back, (religion & planes, I do believe), but I have another to add to the pile. Humanoids with the (extraplanar) subtype are covered under Local, not The Planes. So, some hick in a backwater on the prime who has a rank or two in K.(Local) can ID, say, a Githyanki, even though they live on an entirely different plane of existance. But an expert on the planes and their inhabitants with no ranks in Local, wouldn't be able to tell anything about them.
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2014-04-13, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
I'm more interested in what happens if he decides to wear armor...
Or picks up a rope, floats through someone, and releases the rope, a la Kore.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2014-04-13, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
The DMG has an answer to that... sort of. It won't produce a consistent result across DM's: however, on page 25, it has "Adjucating Actions Not Covered" - which essentially amounts to 'make something up that seems fair'. Personally, I'd be inclined to take a cue from Dimension Door: the space is occupied by a solid body, so when the effect allowing it to be there ends, it's shunted to the nearest open square and takes 1d6 damage (probably breaking the rope, those things aren't exactly high HP). I'd also apply the damage to the person it was in. However, it looks like the Tarol Hunt went with what seemed good for the story... which apparently was blocking his ability to breathe easily and doing something with the choking rules... possibly with a save of some kind.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2014-04-13, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
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2014-04-13, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Ghosts in Monster Manual have strength scores. As it turns out, the archetypal incorporeal creature is only incorporeal when manifesting on the material plane. Ghostly Equipment from the creature description can send a reader on a head trip. All of a creature's carried equipment becomes ghostly equipment when the base creature becomes a ghost, plus 2d4 items the creature particularly valued in life.
It is possible to become overburdened by dying, but that's good news because you're not really dead.
Ghostly Equipment goes on to describe the ghost losing these items if they are looted from the creature's corpse. What if the creature was destroyed in a way that left no remains, like disintegrate? Does the ghost get unpilferable goodies, or do they rise with a richness of ghostly dust? Do they lose this dust if another creature takes it?
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2014-04-13, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2014-04-14, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-04-14, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2014-04-14, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2014-04-14, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
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2014-04-14, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Unless it takes a while for the ghost to form, this still wouldn't be problematic, just weird.
Originally Posted by SRD GhostProjects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2014-04-14, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
I think between this, and that magical spell that can turn "one object" transparent, we'll probably end up with a more robust ruleset if we just declare lava a creature.
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2014-04-14, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
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2014-04-14, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Magma-Paraelemental creatures are LA +5, which sadly isn't anywhere near worth it (Dragon 347, in any case).
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2014-04-16, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules Thread V: Dysfunctions All the Way Down
Isn't there one kind of Mephit with Alternate Form (Pool of magma) or something?
Last edited by Qwertystop; 2014-04-16 at 10:13 AM.