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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Post Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class)

    The Spiritualist



    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

    As a note, this is still a work in progress, and I am going to still modify this when needed (Adding level barriers to using some of the spirits, as well as changing the weapon proficiencies). I also do not know how to put my stuff in a forum without messing them up.

    ANYWAYS, any constructive criticism and/or some helpful tips? I want to make this class as playable as possible without being OP or UP.

    EDIT: I've finally finished with the spirits that the class can channel.

    EDIT 2: Finally put minimum Spiritualist level requirement to channel a spirit, as well as added a new feature that increases bonuses given by spirits. Also changed weapon proficiencies.

    EDIT 3: Made it so some spirits scale at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Removed Improved Essence. Added level requirement for Bat (Blindsense IS powerful, after all). Changed Stirge's duration of use during grapples. Changed DC for spellcasting (It's too low for mid to high level play). Reworded Primal Assistance's DC. Used ngilop's suggestions. Thanks!

    Could someone make a mid-optimized build using this class? I would want it to be focused on this class's strong points, and for it to be similar to how the rulebooks write it. Thank you ahead of time.
    Last edited by Ralcos; 2014-02-27 at 02:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    This seems a bit underpowered. I like the flavor of the spiritual powers, and osme of them are admittedly powerful, but I don't know that they are powerful enough to compensate for the medium BAB and 0-4 casting.

    Maybe if they had some way to pass their spiritual power onto their allies? Like a marshal's aura? Or alternatively, allowing them full spellcasting off the druid spell list?
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_C. View Post
    This seems a bit underpowered. I like the flavor of the spiritual powers, and osme of them are admittedly powerful, but I don't know that they are powerful enough to compensate for the medium BAB and 0-4 casting.

    Maybe if they had some way to pass their spiritual power onto their allies? Like a marshal's aura? Or alternatively, allowing them full spellcasting off the druid spell list?
    I like the idea of these spirits being put into allies. I put it on 8th level.
    Last edited by Ralcos; 2014-02-26 at 02:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    I'd say a petrifying gaze from Lv 1 is anything but underpowered. At-will liveoak (CL 12) on two trees is also pretty powerful at low levels. Also 1st level at-will fly speed.

    Combine with casting that progresses at full caster rate till 7th level and you have a class that's completely overpowered at low levels and eventually becomes obsolete.

    Also all the animal spirits seem significantly weaker than the magical beast spirits, meaning you'll never pick them up.

    Finally the Will save to accept a gifted spirit is much too high especially to accept 2 (DC 52 + 2 x your Wis mod is far too high for a 16th level character to make).
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    I'd say a petrifying gaze from Lv 1 is anything but underpowered. At-will liveoak (CL 12) on two trees is also pretty powerful at low levels. Also 1st level at-will fly speed.

    Combine with casting that progresses at full caster rate till 7th level and you have a class that's completely overpowered at low levels and eventually becomes obsolete.

    Also all the animal spirits seem significantly weaker than the magical beast spirits, meaning you'll never pick them up.
    oh, yeah, some of the spirit powers are completely overpowered if they were available at first, but he mentioned he was going to do a pass at putting minimum levels on some of them, so I assumed the crazier ones would be part of that.

    Either way, I was reserving critique on that portion until it was completed. But you're quite correct in pointing out that some are just plain out of line.
    Last edited by Blue_C.; 2014-02-26 at 05:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Going to agree with what others have said, seems good potentially broken at low levels, but seems to drop off quick after level 6 or 7ish. Also having to make will saves in order to actually cast your spells is interesting, suppose everyone will take iron will as their level 1 feat.

    I would suggest maybe allowing the spirits to scale with spiritualist level or maybe even jut character level, so the few that might be useful at low levels for a +1 or +2 to a skill don't become completely insignificant at higher levels.

    Also maybe add a few more offensive themed spirits that can do some respectable damage, nothing to great but I hit it with my scimitar for 1d6+4 at level 12 is kinda of meh ya know?


    Is that a guild wars 2 picture? Seems similar to their art style.
    Last edited by Yogibear41; 2014-02-26 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogibear41 View Post
    Going to agree with what others have said, seems good potentially broken at low levels, but seems to drop off quick after level 6 or 7ish. Also having to make will saves in order to actually cast your spells is interesting, suppose everyone will take iron will as their level 1 feat.

    I would suggest maybe allowing the spirits to scale with spiritualist level or maybe even jut character level, so the few that might be useful at low levels for a +1 or +2 to a skill don't become completely insignificant at higher levels.

    Also maybe add a few more offensive themed spirits that can do some respectable damage, nothing to great but I hit it with my scimitar for 1d6+4 at level 12 is kinda of meh ya know?


    Is that a guild wars 2 picture? Seems similar to their art style.
    Why, yes it is! I actually did not know, for I was only searching for a picture that could fit the class.
    Sweet Kobold from Vault 13 by ThePrez1776 !

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    I really like the idea of the class but I have to agree that the power level is pretty low. I think they would make a pretty decent grappler though. Speaking of that, is there a reason you put a 4 round limit on the Stirge spirit's ability?

    I agree with Yogi: They need to get better with level. Rhino doing 2d4 extra damage on a charge is pretty sweet but past level 6ish that's basically negligible. Increasing the damage die every few levels (2d6, 2d8, etc) would make it more worthwhile.

    And the improved essence or whatever it is interacts in a weird way with a few of the spirits. Does the leopard give 2 full attacks after a charge is one weird example.

    It might do well to separate them into two types of spirits: Passive and Active

    Maybe the passive ones are always on and they run separate of the active ones that you can change out.

    So at level 20 you might have 4 passive spirits and still have 5 active spirits that you can change out. Make the passive spirits the ones that only give numerical bonuses like the Eagle, Lizard, and Owl and the active ones would be like Kraken, Manticore, and Harpy.

    The numerical ones can be increased by the improved essence and the active ones could scale with level.

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by XionUnborn01 View Post
    I really like the idea of the class but I have to agree that the power level is pretty low. I think they would make a pretty decent grappler though. Speaking of that, is there a reason you put a 4 round limit on the Stirge spirit's ability?

    I agree with Yogi: They need to get better with level. Rhino doing 2d4 extra damage on a charge is pretty sweet but past level 6ish that's basically negligible. Increasing the damage die every few levels (2d6, 2d8, etc) would make it more worthwhile.

    And the improved essence or whatever it is interacts in a weird way with a few of the spirits. Does the leopard give 2 full attacks after a charge is one weird example.

    It might do well to separate them into two types of spirits: Passive and Active

    Maybe the passive ones are always on and they run separate of the active ones that you can change out.

    So at level 20 you might have 4 passive spirits and still have 5 active spirits that you can change out. Make the passive spirits the ones that only give numerical bonuses like the Eagle, Lizard, and Owl and the active ones would be like Kraken, Manticore, and Harpy.

    The numerical ones can be increased by the improved essence and the active ones could scale with level.
    I actually like this idea. I'll make the changes. Thanks, by the way.
    The major limit that I put the round limit on there is because Constitution damage is better than dealing actual damage (imho).
    Last edited by Ralcos; 2014-02-27 at 10:55 AM.
    Sweet Kobold from Vault 13 by ThePrez1776 !

    "If the powers that be are angry, give them a weapon."

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Unless you are fighting undead or constructs

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralcos View Post
    I actually like this idea. I'll make the changes. Thanks, by the way.
    The major limit that I put the round limit on there is because Constitution damage is better than dealing actual damage (imho).
    No problem, it's our job as brewers to help where we can I think.

    I totally get what you mean about the con damage but look at it this way, you have to grapple them and then hold it every round to deal 1 con damage whereas the fighter or barbarian is hacking at them and kills them before you even get a chance to do more than a couple damage anyway.

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    First off, you have dead levels at 2, 6, 10, 12, 14, 18 and 20.

    I can't really say I care for the "Will Save to cast a spell" concept; usually ideas like that are the result of some half-baked spellcasting nerf, which a 0-4 casting class doesn't need.

    You need to include how DCs are calculated for the Spiritual Essences that require saving throws.

    Similarly, the Will save attached to the Primal Assistance ability seems like a pointless nerf, particularly since it means that the ability can't effectively be used on the classes that would benefit from it the most. I would very strongly recommend dropping the Will save requirements for this ability and for the classes spellcasting.

    Regarding the Spirits;
    Some of them seem to be vastly more powerful than others, and are gained at too low or too high a level. For example, Basilisk essentially gives an at will SoD at level 7, which is grotesquely overpowered, whereas Frost Worm grants a stripped down Flame shield at level 11, which is fairly underwhelming. I would strongly recommend reconsidering when different spirits are granted and what their precise effects are. Try comparing them to Warlock invocations and existing spells to get a feel for what powers are appropriate to what level.
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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Can i aks why you gave themf ast track spell access, but only limited them to 4th level spells? ALso requiring a save to cast a spell is a bit much, remove that part 4th levels spells are not going to be ending existance anytime soon :)

    I just cannot get behind that. id rather see this class gaining spell levels like this 1st -0level 2nd- 1stlevel 5th- 2ndlevel 8th-3rdlevel 11-4thlevel, a tad behind the bards. I feel that doing that is better balanced agaisnt the spirit abilities you get like at will petrification at 7th level

    You need a capstone. I cannot think of one right now, but it needs to be something really cool neat and good mechanically, but not overpoweringly so.

    This class reminds me of the one from magic of incarnum in that it seems to be a very godo jack of all trades. :)

    now on to teh actual spirits I find issue with

    Boar: diehard is a weak feat, you basically got bonus feat as a class feature here, id recommend improving on the idea of it. either giving it the actual boars ability fo ferocity or expanding upon the diehard feat to better degrees

    Crocodile: see manta ray

    Dog/Wolf: they are really about the same id just lump them as one and have it give improved trip at like lvl 5-8.

    Ettin: yep.. waayy to good it gives teh same bonus to spot that the eagle gives and thats ALL the poor eagle gives. instead require 5th level and let the ettin do uncanny dodge at 5th and improved uncanny dodge at 9th so your a bit behind the rogue on that, and I feel that fits the 2 heads idea a bit better.

    Frsotworm: you can bump the required level down for that to maybe as low as 7th.

    Girallon: the damage is too low make it deal 1d4 points of damage and increase its die amount at every increases (i.e. 1d4, [email protected] [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected]) the Spiritualist might only get this 1/3 of the time and 1d12 extra dmg at lvl 20 is really nothing to brag about.

    Griffon: start the maneuverability of the flight at poor increases it to good at 11th and to 50 feet at 17th? I just like to see scaling abilities rather than flat ones

    Harpy: you gonan need to entail what captivated means here it is in a spoiler for you
    Spoiler
    Show
    A captivated victim walks toward the harpy, taking the most direct route available. If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), that creature gets a second saving throw. Captivated creatures can take no actions other than to defend themselves. (Thus, a fighter cannot run away or attack but takes no defensive penalties.) A victim within 5 feet of the harpy stands there and offers no resistance to the monsterís attacks. The effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter. A bardís countersong ability allows the captivated creature to attempt a new Will save.


    Hyena: id actually go against the grain on this and require 4th level and the use of Hideous laughter as an at will spell like ability :) you already have dog/wolf for the trip and such

    Kraken: same suggestion as for girallon, but id rather it be another supernatural ability let them control winds at 9th levle and control weather at like 15-17th? Since this is bascialyl the girallon ability with another name

    Lamia: id give them a save to resist, i know the actual moster ability has no save, but as a palyer power I think a save is necassary

    Lammasthu: instead of increating the range at a certain level make it turn into holy/unholy aura

    Lizard/monitor lizard: id combine these 2

    Manta Ray: you have the same ability as the crocodile. Id give the corc a nat AC boost as and give this guy a stinger attack to establish an actual difference between the two

    Minotaur: remove the whole never be caught flat footed and rpelace it worh a gore attack :)

    Mule: id give them the slippery midn ability from rogues as Mules are super stubborn!

    Orc: id instead allow them to rage as a barbarian at half their level, they way this ability is currently is a bit much for a non combat focused class IMO

    Porposie: give them a swim speed :)

    Rat: immunity to disease or a huge svae bonus vs disease attac is needed

    Rhinocerous: allow the spirutla to ignore AC penalty when charging and increase teh die size to a d6 instead

    Shocker Lizard: just make it deal electricity damage, its not game breaking and make more sense than on lethal

    other than those things this is a great class. you can be a great scout while channeling Warg and Horse. A good combantant channeling troll, wolf, and girallon etc etc

    you effectily can perform any number of roles depednins on your spirits you are chaneling at a specific time

    I think there are a few you can still add

    Unicorn to get cure light wounds ands restoration and such like that.

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    So... No more suggestions / ideas / critisisms?
    I'm still wondering if this class is playable or I need to work on it some more...
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Spiritualist (PEACH; Base Class 3.5)

    Just looking through the spirits and wanted to give a few corrections.

    The Girallon spirit's damage increases are listed as d4, I'm guessing it's supposed to start at 1d6 and go [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected]

    Just wanted to point out that the Harpy is a double edged sword because it doesn't differentiate between enemy and ally. If that's intentional I don't really mind I just wanted to make sure you knew.

    The Hyena's Hideous Laughter at will might be a bit much, you might want to put a 1d4 round cooldown on it to keep them from spamming it.

    The Kraken's Control Weather is normally a 10 minute casting time. As an SLA I believe that's automatically reduced to 1 round unless you specify otherwise.

    The Monitor Lizard has a weird damage progression, otherwise it's fine.

    I'd like to see the Manticore's base damage to at least 1d4, but that's because personally I hate 1d3, no real reason other than that.

    Sphinx is like the Harpy, it effects allies and enemies. Again, just want to make sure it's intentional.

    I like the improvements, I think it's made a big leap towards being a solid class. I'm not sure if it's needed or not but I think you should put in that they choose which natural attack is their primary attack when they channel their spirits for the day. Also, you should put in that they gain proficiency with any natural weapons they channel.

    Is there a particular reason you decided on a 12 hour duration for spirits? Why not have them choose at the beginning of each day and then give them a mechanic for trading one out x times per day?

    You should update the table you have in your document and in all reality, you should probably get it put into a table on here, there's a thread at the top of the homebrew page with pre-made tables.

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