Sorceror casting based on Intelligence

[Deus Mortus]

Is there anyway to make the sorceror casting ability Int instead of Cha?

[dorshe1]

House Rule it. Although I wouldn't do it personally. I like that sorcs have cha as their primary ability. cha gets no love!

[Deus Mortus]

I'm afraid I can't houserule, I'm using it for an Ultimate Magus build and that would mean I would have to pump both Cha and Int for spells and I'd prefer not too.

[Frojoe21]

Beguiler from PH II is a spontaneous caster using Intelligence. There is also the Generic Mage from Unearthed Arcana.

[Deus Mortus]

Thanks, generic mage will work fine :)

[Person_Man]

I'm afraid I can't houserule, I'm using it for an Ultimate Magus build and that would mean I would have to pump both Cha and Int for spells and I'd prefer not too.

Umm, I'm pretty sure that high Int and Cha is exactly what WotC envisioned when they made a PrC with a billion arcane spell slots.

Also, its worth noting that most Theurge builds aren't worth it. A standard mid-level full caster of any type has more then enough spells to last them through 2-6 encounters per game day. And if they run out for some reason, they can fall back on wands and scrolls, or just relax during the nuisance encounters and let the other players win the battle for once.

Knowing that, most players would choose access to more powerful high level spells (and better metamagic possibilities), rather then a large number of low level spells.

[Thomas]

Umm, I'm pretty sure that high Int and Cha is exactly what WotC envisioned when they made a PrC with a billion arcane spell slots.

Yeah, it's supposed to be a balancing factor. But with the Ultimate Magus, you don't need such a high Cha anyway; you want to use those sorcerer slots for boosting your wizard spells...

[Deus Mortus]

I just like the whole Ultimate Magus thing, it fits fluffwise with my char and I like to throw around a lot of spells nonstop :P

[Amiria]

Still, Beguiler paired with a Specialist Wizard that chooses Enchantment and Illusion as his prohibited schools is a good choice.

[Caelestion]

Don't use the generic classes with the non-generic classes. You'll have all sorts of weirdness.

[Deus Mortus]

Yeah Vael just smacked me for trying that, guess I might go beguiler then.

[Caelestion]

Well, the Beguiler, like the Dread Necromancer, is a highly themed class. Unless you want to be forced down the enchantment/illusion route, I'd settle for high Int and Cha.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Well, the Beguiler, like the Dread Necromancer, is a highly themed class. Unless you want to be forced down the enchantment/illusion route, I'd settle for high Int and Cha.

...Except that with Ultimate Magus, he still gets the full flexibility of a Wizard as well, so he's not "forced down that route" at all.

Honestly, though, I think Warmage/Wizard might be the best combination. You still have dual casting stats, but jacking INT still gets you a bit more oomph out of the Warmage side. More importantly, though, your spontaneous slots will always be at least fairly effective in any given situation -- direct damage isn't great, but it's a pretty good fall back. Use the Wizard slots for specialty/utility spells and the Warmage slots for when you can get by with just a hammer.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Does Sorcerer and Shugenja works with Mystic Theurge? It always seemed like it would be an okay idea to me.

Theurge classes are meant to have multiple ability dependancy. Except maybe Cerebramancer, that one's easy to get away with.

[SpiderBrigade]

Does Sorcerer and Shugenja works with Mystic Theurge? It always seemed like it would be an okay idea to me.

Yes, they do work. It's still a trap.

[gaymer_seattle]

The key point of a prestige class is that not everyone can do it. Ultimate Magus are the best of the best. their lives have been devoted to learning how to be masters of the arcane. If they did not have the intellect, or the force of personality to support this endeavor, they would fail at it. changing the rules to suit only your characters strong attributes denigrates the purpose of the prestige class

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

I like to think of CHA as being one's force of will, their inherent impression abilities, and of course, the "Im too sexy" aspect. Besides; the Sorc is a great RP character; they are the party "face", the one that makes all the deals, gathers information, etc. the Wizz is the primary spellcaster, I'll take Sorc. I get less # of spells known, but there are plenty of ways around that.

[Thomas]

Yes, they do work. It's still a trap.

Or a good option for a secondary/tertiary caster in a party, especially in a campaign where the players aren't guaranteed rest breaks at regular intervals, and where the near-double amount of spells will be noticed...

[Jack_Simth]

Yes, they do work. It's still a trap.

Other than the MAD, The Wiz-5/Mindbender-1/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge-X isn't too bad (although it is Evil, and using a mostly-broken PrC with a PrC not really desigined for it, and a third PrC just to get into it faster - many DM's will object); 9th level Divine spells at about 15th or 16th (don't recall off hand), 9th level Arcane spells at 19th (if you finish up with Wiz or Wiz PrC levels). And you can reduce the MAD by skipping bonus spells and save DC on one side or the other (e.g., as your Ur-Priest caster level isn't likely to be as high as your Wizard caster level (depending on DM - some will permit the Mystic Theurge and Mindbender levels to contribute towards your Ur-Priest caster level, some not; also, Practiced Spellcaster can fix that) a Wisdom with items of only 19 is sufficient; not like you're going to run out of spell slots; can do the same for Int on the Wizard side, although that impacts the skill point requirements). Granted, there's about a 5-level window where you're considerably weaker than any other primary spellcaster, and you miss out on some of the niftier Ur-Priest powers (steal spell-like abilities from Outsiders? Oooh.... Efreeti....), and if the DM is playing the world right, you'll routinely have crusading armies from both sides of the divine court wanting to kill you....

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Does anyone else find the generic spellcaster to be far more powerful then a sorcerer?

[Jack_Simth]

In many cases, yes. Bonus Feats are useful, as is the selectable skill list.

Depending on the campaign, though, the reduced spells per day can hurt.