Iron Avatarist: We're going on hiatus

[Crimmy]

Hello, playgrounders.
Ever since I took the helm of this fine, if seemingly lost ship, I have tried to give it my all towards bringing it back to its original glory. So far, I must apologize to you all by accepting I have failed miserably at doing so.
Serpentine, our trusted judge, friend, counselor and teammate, has done quite a lot in helping me out with comments, advice, the not-so-occasional-and-quite-frequent reminder, and general input, so I want to thank her first of all, because without her I would've been lost from the start.

Now, the Iron Avatarist contest will most definitely NOT disappear. It's just on hiatus, mainly because I need you the playgrounders. Mainly avatarists, sure, but all of you to help me in making this something worthy, and most importantly, fun for all of you.

I'd love to have your input and feedback on how to make this better. A change of name may well be the first of the changes, sure, but we need something more. Should themes be broad, or narrow? Should we create a logo? Is there any way to make this more appealing to people, even those without avataring experience?

I'm here, and I want you all to lay it on me.

I appreciate this, and I want to thank you all once again for the few but meaningful contests I did get to manage.

~Crimms

[Rain Dragon]

「What is this editing black magic?」

Well, I wonder how many avatarists don't like OOTS style. I know it defeats the purpose to have an OOTS avatar competition and have a section that is not OOTS, but maybe that's one thing.

For an example, compare my terribad cricket season avatar of OOTS style to my terribad normal me of more chibi-esque style. Ok, this is a really bad example.

Maybe signature badges would help bring traffic like you said.

Maybe people don't know how easy it is to get started drawing OOTS characters. 「It is really hard to make them look supercool though」

At the same time, I might be the only person who is interested in a not-strictly-OOTS-but-still-avatar category and I really don't mind watching the competition at all.
I kinda liked the last one's theme, though I haven't paid much attention to IAs while they were running so I really haven't seen all of it.

[Grozomah]

At the moment i'm feeling extremly honest, so i'm gonna tell you my opinion, as arelatively new member of the board. Do take it lightly, since it is a bit specific and i haven't thought it through myself, so it is entirely possible that i'll come back and disagree with something written here in a cuple of days.

One thing that i saw when i first started lurking on the IA threads was the overall high quality of the works. Which makes sense, since IA is which iteration? Pushing 50? And that is fantastic, since it means that a lot of people managed to get their artsy skills to that stage. But on the other hand it also sets a high standard for new members.

And i think this may be the problem - since there are relativery few new participants, and the old ones will eventually run into more important RL stuff, and stop coming.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm sure the wonderful community on the playground would give me support for whatever doodle i would post, but I myself would feel to be bringing the overall quality of the works down, and doing damage to the thread in the process. Sure, it's unreasonable, since abandoning IA undoubtedly does more damage than publishing a sub-perfect work, but it might be something that turns some new participants off.

So my advice would be to try to be more inviting to new members? Maybe add a "best newcomer" badge or something, maybe that would attract achievement-greedy post members (like myself).

As for the suggested things - yeah, the name Iron Avatarist could be improved, as well as the format. I'm guessing that's limiting to some, but i'll let the playgrounders that actually posted in those constraints to say their opinions.

[Rain Dragon]

Maybe add a "best newcomer" badge or something, maybe that would attract achievement-greedy post members (like myself).

There is a best rookie award. Are you thinking of something slightly different?

EDIT - Wrong word

[smuchmuch]

Ever since I took the helm of this fine, if seemingly lost ship, I have tried to give it my all towards bringing it back to its original glory. So far, I must apologize to you all by accepting I have failed miserably at doing so.

Wouldn't beat myself too much over this if I were you, except for the OOTS fanart thread, there's been a slow but definite decline of a lot of avatar based activity lately (though it started slowly over the the last two years monthes or so.)
There's no more avatar theme weeks, fan comics are even deader than usual and there's very few avatarists still active in 'request an OOTS avatar'

A lot of old timer avatarists have moved on in some ways (Rl happens), I think, and there doesn't seem a lot of replacement.

[Elder Tsofu]

Wouldn't beat myself too much over this if I were you, except for the OOTS fanart thread, there's been a slow but definite decline of a lot of avatar based activity lately (though it started slowly over the the last two years monthes or so.)
There's no more avatar theme weeks, fan comics are even deader than usual and there's very few avatarists still active in 'request an OOTS avatar'

A lot of old timer avatarists have moved on in some ways (Rl happens), I think, and there doesn't seem a lot of replacement.

Indeed. A general lack of people drawing is probably the main issue.
Is that due to IA scaring new people away when it in the early stages invited them into drawing? I don't know if IA ever had that effect, or what is different now that would have changed the effect... (Except lack of participation, which is a dampener on any competitive thing)

A few years back I was quite a regular at the IA competitions, but ended up with less time to draw and thus focused more on my personal drawing projects. When participation fell over-all I justified my staying out with that I would probably just have scared away new attendants if I stepped in.
Perhaps that was a mistake, I don't really know.

Do we see the same trend of decline in other forums? Can we still "market" drawing in general to them by signature banners and suchlike?

***

You can draw too! Follow this simple guide and you'll equal The Giant* at the end of it!

*See early works.

[Cuthalion]

IA got me started, really. So, yeah. There was a huge crop of avatarists, who have mostly faded away. There are a few replacements for them such as asdflove and DLB. And then there are the little people. They're scared to enter (I know) because they feel they don't have a chance. But. If you maybe send out PMs to a number of them who have posted in the Showcase, there would likely be an increase in their number. I dunno.

[Ceika]

Crimmy, I don't think it's your fault at all, so don't be too hard on yourself. You've kept it going far longer than most would have. I don't deny that I enjoy lurking in the IA threads, though it's been forever since I participated (I think I've participated in one, maybe two?), mostly due to a lack of time.

Personally, I don't get on the boards much these days (maybe a handful of times in the last 5 years), so I often don't realize the contests are going until they're close to finished or already over.

Also, even though I don't post often, I'm still getting a number of requests per month. Sometimes enough to keep me in the "catching up" phase. Like now. Due to RL issues and a move across the ocean, I'm about 10-12 avatars behind right now. Oh well... back to the drawing board. Literally.

[Duck999]

It is really not your fault at all Crimmy. I have not participated in IA, but I have lurked the past couple contests. For one, I think you should keep the name. It is basically a tradition, and I see nothing wrong with it. I have done some minor avatar making (none very good), and it seems like something fun, but hard to get started. If you found some way to encourage people to start making avatars, it could get some more interest.

[TaiLiu]

A slow period. Perhaps it will rise again, with a sudden surge of avatar makers, or perhaps it will sink lower and lower until it is only in the minds of those ancient artists.

Either way, don't worry about it too much.

[wxdruid]

I participated in a few. My difficulty was the long lag time between the contest ending and the winners being announced. The second is, that not every contest suggested an idea to me. If I have no idea what to draw, then it most likely will not get done. And lately, I still have a full time job, and a small business (started last year) going on and I don't participate in Town a lot anymore which leads to less time on the computer.

[petersohn]

I entered a few contests. When I don't, that's usually either because I don't have an idea or because I couldn't realize my idea well enough. When I say "not good enough", it's not because I think that I wouldn't have a chance of winning. I really don't care about winning if the whole contest is fun enough, and drawing my particular entry is fun enough for me. But sometimes however much work I put into an entry (which is usually not very much because I don't have a lot of time) I can't make it good enough for my own standards. In these cases I lose interest and abandon it before it is even finished. I think the main reason behind this is that while I have a good enough imagination of how I want my drawing to look, I'm not very skilled in drawing and often screw it up, or it simply takes so much time (again, which I don't have) that I simply can't finish it. This is only my personal problem though, as if there were enough people to enter their work in the past, there should also be enough today. It would be good to see some statistics about the forum activity over time.

There is one more problem though, which might really contribute to the decline of IA. Sometimes I have an idea, but by the time I would start working on it, I see it that there is not much interest in the current contest. Then I lose interest because I consider it not worth the effort to enter if there are so few entries to begin with. Maybe there are other people thinking the same way, creating a spiral downwards?

On another note, I wouldn't ditch the restriction of OOTS style. This is something that makes it possible for people without much drawing skills (such as myself) to enter anything. The art style is simple enough that even a newbie can get started by copying some characters from the comic (which is not that hard once you learn to use a vector graphics program such as Inkscape) then alter it until something original comes out. On the other hand, a skilled artist can push the edges of the style and come up with something completely original and awesome. There has been some works here tht were only very vaguely OOTS style, yet they were accepted and even won prizes. If people started entering whatever art style they are comfortable with I wouldn't even consider entering at all. A good artist can draw well even with constraints on style, but everyone else needs guidelines, and OOTS style is good because of how simple yet expressive it is. And this contest is about everyone being able to enter and participate.

[Mauve Shirt]

Yeah, I think limiting it to OOTS-style is what makes Iron Avatarist different from, well, pretty much any other art contest. Remove that limitation and you'll find yourself judging a bunch of MLP fanart, I'd wager.

As for me, I want to work and draw and participate in IAs, but for some contests I have 0 ideas, and for the ones when I do have ideas there are like 3 other entrants, which is discouraging. Toss in an expanding social circle off of the playground, my job demanding more of my time in the evening, and I just don't sit down and draw as much as I wish I could. And when I get the time, there's no Iron Avatarist to give me inspiration!

So that's an idea of what's happening to older artists. I honestly have no clue why there aren't any newer artists interested in these contests. Perhaps I'm just motivated by competition.

[Cuthalion]

Perhaps we should all have a "Learn to make OOTS-style avatars!" banner? I somehow have a feeling that we could knock out an even better guide than Trazoi's between us if we wanted to.

[Duck999]

There could be some OoTS categories, maybe 2 or 3, and some non OoTS categories, maybe 2 or 3. That way, OoTS avatar makers can participate, and so can others.

[Domochevsky]

I got pretty much the same thing going on as Mauve, with other stuff demanding my time and attention. And I'm behind on that already. >_>

As for the competitions themselves, there is value in it being more... competetive? Knowing where you are in the grand scheme of things and not having to wait a month to find out when trophies are in.
Devising a system to give immediate feedback (points for example, handed out by the judges as they come across new things and kept up to date on a leaderboard in the first post) would be useful on that angle.

Also yes, there is value to the OotS style restriction, as it creates a skill ceiling of sorts, leveling the playing field.

I'd advise against more categories though, as spreading yourself thin is not gonna help.

[Rain Dragon]

Well, I wasn't decrying OOTS avatars in the IA at all and wasn't meaning more than one category of not quite OOTS avatars. At the same time though, if it draws too much attention away from OOTS avatars it sort of almost defeats the purpose of the IA as I view it. I do see it is a primarily OOTS style competition, though my previous post may imply otherwise. (Sorry about that!)

Though I readily admit that it might not change a whole lot at all as it doesn't really address any of the larger problems I think.

A banner for learning how to make an OOTS avatar might be a /really/ wizard idea though. I don't think I've come across a specific 'learn to' thread, but there's that guide to Inkscape/OOTS avatars floating around somewhere...

I note that in the OOTS Fanart thread there are no links to guides in the OP but there sure are a few people trying their hand at it every now and again and sometimes I've seen the guide mentioned.

[Szilard]

Hi, Szilard here. I guess everyone else is sharing their thoughts, so I thought I might as well too.

I joined the boards... I don't know... maybe six or seven years ago? I just remember being in middle school (so I guess that makes me quite young to some of you guys. ). Back then, I had plenty of time to do fun things. I always liked art, and OotS being my latest obsession at the time, learning the style seemed like a fun thing to do, so I tried to learn the ropes and apply myself. This led to my participation in both the Iron Avatarists and Avatar Battle Royale, along with three or so eventually failed webcomics. Started off with MS Paint, but eventually made the switch over to Inkscape. I went through a sort of style change or two (Trazoi's Guide certainly helped) along the way, but I was drawing and having fun.

My art has improved over the years, and I jealously hoarded all the IA trophies I could (and also designing them every once in a while). However, the amount of free time I had did not improve. In middle school and the beginning of high school, plenty of time! But after several AP classes and now college... I find less and less time. I found myself not entering IA, even if I did have an inspiration, because I didn't feel obligated to make something. Hell, I haven't even made a new avatar for myself in months out of sheer laziness. The only time I seem to make anything now is if I get an avatar request.

So along with seemingly everyone else, time just got away with me. And there could also be a bit of a psychological issue where I feel I have less to prove to the Avataring community. I'd say I'm a pretty decent avatarer, so it doesn't seem necessary to improve my image more than I need to.


...


This post got away from me. I think a big issue is a sort of positive-feedback loop (in the worst of ways). We see less participation in IA, so we don't feel so bad if we don't participate this time, which leads to less participation, which leads to even lesser participation. It seems silly to enter a contest with only a handful of contestants. There's also a general migration of avatarists away from the boards it seems. I remember there used to be people like Saturn and Dr. Bath (I think, it's been a few years) who were quite renown on the boards. But they moved on. Others tried to fill in the shoes of being great avatarists. Serpentine's another one of those old crowd that's pretty good--pity she mostly judges these days. Everyone just seems to be moving on in one way or another, and we don't have a surge of new avatarists--which I think was initially inspired by the rise in fancomics. Lyinginbedmon's Remember and what'shisface's Failing Saves, and Zara's Anti-Heroes were up there as the first few oots-style fancomics, and caused a general rush of "Hey, I wanna have a fancomic, maybe I should learn oots-style." I think that died down though.

TD;LR: I don't know if there's any interesting info you can glean from my stream-of-consciousness blab, but I have three midterms I should study for.

[petersohn]

It is natural that people leave the forum after a while, but it should be just as natural that new ones arrive. It's not that the popularity of OOTS would decrease or there are less people nowdays who are good at drawing. The problem is I guess with IA itself, or its marketing. I'm planning to do some research on this popularity thing then get back later with results.

[Serpentine]

Serpentine, our trusted judge, friend, counselor and teammate, has done quite a lot in helping me out with comments, advice, the not-so-occasional-and-quite-frequent reminder, and general input, so I want to thank her first of all, because without her I would've been lost from the start.

Aww :3 Wellp, as long as this thing exists one way or another, I'll be involved in it.

[Crimmy]

I read through this thread and I kinda got teary eyed.

Yes, it seems we've got less and less artists that have both the time and the willingness to participate. I agree that we should probs make a tutorial on how to OotS. This, however, ends up pushing IA to staing on hiatus for a long time, until people want it back.

Funny story: I was listening to this while reading, and Serpie's post was the one thing I was reading when the song hits its climax (at around 4:43). So that was probably the most sentimental part ever.
I'm sad it's going the way of the dodo, but at the same time it will most certainly come back.

I guessing this tutorial should be made collectively, if anyone wants to help pool resources. I also want to maybe market this idea fore extensively, so maybe we should have a thread completely and solely for the purpose of an OotS Tutorial thingie, different from the Showcase thread?

[Tiffanie Lirle]

It's not that the popularity of OOTS would decrease or there are less people nowdays who are good at drawing. The problem is I guess with IA itself, or its marketing.

I don't believe this, myself. This is a problem that spreads much further out than just IA. For example, I had a first hand view of how Avatar Battle Royale crashed in the last few years. ABR was easily the largest community art project on GITP and by far one of the biggest motivators in the Playground for new members (and old) to get into or heavily practice their drawing in Arts and Crafts. We had to make several new threads on a weekly basis because we went through them so fast with new content and art.

But a steady decline in artists and I daresay activity on the Gitp forums is noticeable. This isn't an issue limited to Arts and Crafts (or IA) but a forum-wide issue that shows prolonged interest in Gitp perhaps even Oots is dwindling. Look at the amount of spam getting through on all the sub-forums, even the once high class and fully staffed mod team seems to be falling behind.

The kids are getting too old for the Playground and the new generation doesn't want to play on the swings because that's not cool anymore.

Edit - I never took part in IA, because I don't agree with the idea of having competitions to decide who the "best artists" on the Playground are/were. It always went against the spirit of the forum, I felt.

[Serpentine]

There is an entire subforum devoted to games and contests; there are homebrewing contests and all sorts of other ones; and the IA has been around for longer than I have. The idea that competition is a dirty word that tears us apart befuddles me. If they're not your thing, I get that, and no one's forcing you to join in. But the idea that it's "not in the spirit of the boards"... It's in the spirit of human nature, fun, and our desire for shiny trophies. This forum falls under that as much as any other human medium. Considering the effort the mods themselves have gone to make sure it keeps going, I would be surprised if they disagreed with me.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

The idea that competition is a dirty word that tears us apart befuddles me.

Assuming that's meant in reply to me, it's a good thing I never said that.

I'm not out to hammer my point of view into someone elses mind. I'm just stating why I, personally, never took part in IA. As we say in Germany, try not to make an elephant out of a mosquito.

I'm guessing this tutorial should be made collectively, if anyone wants to help pool resources. I also want to maybe market this idea fore extensively, so maybe we should have a thread completely and solely for the purpose of an OotS Tutorial thingie, different from the Showcase thread?

A tutorial thread would be a good idea, for a start. But I don't think having a guide on how to draw in the Oots style is enough to really pull people back in. It's been mentioned that IA and several fan-comics / etc, were reasons for people to start and keep drawing in the Oots style and I'd agree that exactly that element is missing right now. Some end goal or something that really catches peoples interest.

I'd assume avatar requests and "just because" aren't enough to really pull in the kinds of crowds we used to have in these parts. People probably need some reason or form of motivation to really want to learn to draw in the Oots style and until that's there.. I dunno.

[petersohn]

I don't believe this, myself. This is a problem that spreads much further out than just IA. For example, I had a first hand view of how Avatar Battle Royale crashed in the last few years. ABR was easily the largest community art project on GITP and by far one of the biggest motivators in the Playground for new members (and old) to get into or heavily practice their drawing in Arts and Crafts. We had to make several new threads on a weekly basis because we went through them so fast with new content and art.

But a steady decline in artists and I daresay activity on the Gitp forums is noticeable. This isn't an issue limited to Arts and Crafts (or IA) but a forum-wide issue that shows prolonged interest in Gitp perhaps even Oots is dwindling. Look at the amount of spam getting through on all the sub-forums, even the once high class and fully staffed mod team seems to be falling behind.

The kids are getting too old for the Playground and the new generation doesn't want to play on the swings because that's not cool anymore.

That's what I suspect. I'm going to collect some hard statistical data whether it is really the truth or not. It's sad that nowdays people shun simple and easy to use forms of communication like this forum, and prefer things like Facebook that may be usable for many things, but pretty much unsuitable for any specific purpose except for drawing a lot of people into joining. But if Facebook is required to boost participation...

Edit - I never took part in IA, because I don't agree with the idea of having competitions to decide who the "best artists" on the Playground are/were. It always went against the spirit of the forum, I felt.

The purpose of these contests is not just to show that you are better than the others, but also to draw more attention to good art. There is the OOTS Style Art Showcase thread, but posting your art into a bin that you don't even know how many people saw it and probably won't get any feedback is not that motivating as the chance of winning something (even a rookie award) and having your entry show up among a few selected entries. The rookie award is exactly there to motivate newcomers to participate. Even if they are not as good as the more experienced "players", they have a chance of winning.

I'd assume avatar requests and "just because" aren't enough to really pull in the kinds of crowds we used to have in these parts. People probably need some reason or form of motivation to really want to learn to draw in the Oots style and until that's there.. I dunno.

This is exactly the same I said before, so I guess you just answered your own doubts.

[Cuthalion]

Looking through the boards, I'm getting the feeling that most people don't have OOTS-Style avatars. Not really a status thing anymore. This may or may not have something to do with the decline of the Request thread. If, however, each of us took one request that's currently active, we might be able to generate more interest again. If that thread's maintained, people will be more likely to want their own.

[Mauve Shirt]

That's a good point, Cuth. This is going to sound haughty as hell, but I don't think many of us Olds have ventured into the request thread for a while, and as a result we may be starving the forum of custom OOTS-style avatars.

[Rain Dragon]

I agree that we should probs make a tutorial on how to OotS. This, however, ends up pushing IA to staing on hiatus for a long time, until people want it back.

I'll help. I really like art competitions. I have a ton of time and all the resources.

Looking through the boards, I'm getting the feeling that most people don't have OOTS-Style avatars. Not really a status thing anymore. This may or may not have something to do with the decline of the Request thread. If, however, each of us took one request that's currently active, we might be able to generate more interest again. If that thread's maintained, people will be more likely to want their own.

I've also noticed this and I haven't been here for very long at all.

[Cuthalion]

I'd delay IA until later. Unless maybe all the titans who've been awakened would join...

I did make a tutorial thread, though. Please come on over and help, if you'd like!

[AsteriskAmp]

In my humble opinion the main reason for the decline in OotS artist numbers is due to there being little incentive for outsiders to get into the style. It's pretty much exclusive to the forum and there is little recognition outside, and even inside of it for being proficient on it.

It used to be for avatar making, at least that's how new artists were inducted; it used to be that everyone had one so it was a stigma NOT having one. But lately that's pretty much gone.

The way to get people back in my view is giving them a reason to want to make OotS art.

I decided to leave the forums for a number of reasons about half a year ago; I decided to further my formal artistic studies, go back to my original medium and actually read more of proper art theory. I actually thought it'd be the last of OotS Art I'd do. But I was very wrong, and I then noticed that it had incredible potential in one particular area, and it had been in front of me all along.

In fact, the Kickstarter showed just how viable it was and we'd seen sporadic interest on it for a good while; it however never garnered major interest from most avatarists. The way to get people into OotS Art is simply showcasing it's potential for token making, cartography and character portraits. 4chan's /tg/, Enworld and this very site's gaming section all have to some degree a need for such productions. Not only this but OotS art is ideal for such; it's easy to learn, quite fast in terms of making tokens and portraits and looks relatively good even at the lowest level of skill.

The solution of course is not only figuring this out but getting out and doing something FOR it. Producing resources for token and portrait making; and getting high profile posters outside (and inside) of A&C to help the cause, even possibly as a quid pro quo and in general as a way to overall improve the community. While the initial effort might end up being massive, and require many to join together to actually form something resembling an organised community; after interest is garnered and with well established goals already in place, it'd be simply a question of riding the inertia afterwards.

This used to be a much bigger detailed and ridiculously thought out post but my browser hates me and I think this actually much better than a massive essay talking about Demand, Supply and the Nature of Art.


If anyone thinks this is more than the ridiculous ramblings of a madman who's gone for so long and so far he has no idea what he talks about any more; I'd be highly motivated even if time limited to help actually going through with this, getting people outside to take interest in any viable and organised way.


And in worst case/best case; eulogy if this is the start of the last twilight, and inspiring pre-inaugural speech if it isn't:

Spoiler

Show

The A&C Community in particular is one of the greatest places I've been for several years; it reignited my artistic motivation and even got me deep into completely unrelated places which improved my life in many ways. The people were and are amazing, to list them would be an exercise in insanity, the OotS Art thread, Draw your Friends people (you are all awesome, Fin if still around, getting it started and being amazing overall, smuchmuch for getting me out of hiding/sleeping and back to running it and keeping it going alongside Eleanor_Rigby afterwards, and later on Gnomish Wanderer as well, you thrice have my respect. And the participants as well, Kasanip with incredible realism and anime style, Mauve, Szilard, flyingchicken whose art I first witnessed in the game and quite surprised me, Castaras, Zefir, akrim.elf, Herpestidae, Dogmantra, Strawberries, wxdruid, Rae Artemi, Mr_Saturn, AThousandWords, Dr.Epic whose images resolution destroyed many screens, azuyomi244, Derjuin, Ninjaman, C-Lam, Irbis, Kopaka, GrlumpTheElder, Domochevsky, Bradakham, Licoot, Gimliggamer, Nevitan; and all who participated who my memory have betrayed me on. Lists quickly get ridiculous as I said and will say), I tried to name particulars but the list grew longer to insane points and then had to go back and notice I was missing some people (including some which are gone, and some that aren't here any more but are elsewhere), people who I knew from elsewhere in the forum and then found here to great delight (shoutout to Cuthalion and TaiLu who are also in this thread), the people who helped me better improve my art by actually properly making critics (sometimes quite bloody) of it (ALL PRAISE CRIMMY and KID KRIS utterly destroying a lot of my work), giving video demonstrations (TSOFU HOUR LONG RECORDED DRAWING SESSIONS!), those with whom I remember starting at around the same time periods (Teutonic Knight with a great comic in hiatus currently; yldenfrei and Aurius with some rather impressive art from the get-go around the time I was just starting), those I learnt from archive (Ego Slayer, Mad Mask, and the venerable greatness of Mr_Saturn immediately come to mind), some amazing people still around who kinda showed up from the past and showed just how far you can push the medium (Tiffanie Lirle scenarios and in general everything from scrolling a bit upwards); and many many more who I'm sure I'm missing; it's not that you aren't awesome it's just that my name memory sucks.

And whatever happens next, it's been an honour to be in this community for as long as I've seen it be and to wherever it goes next, with or without me as RL tries to murder any hint of free time.