Lich mindflayer

[Eldpollard]

what would the challenge rating for one be? it would have to be l11 wizard to make the phylactry, and a mindflayer has 8 levels already. the level ajustment for a lich is +2. so would it have a cr of 21? im not sure so could anyone tell me?

[Thomas]

Level adjustment has nothing to do with CR. You're clearly mixing them up, since a lich's CR adjustment is +2, but the LA is +4.

A Wiz11 lich mind flayer would be CR ... I forget what mind flayers are. CR 8? Anyway, +4 for the unassociated wizard levels, +3 for the associared wizard levels, +2 for being a lich. CR X+9.

ECL is a different matter; it'd be 23 + whatever a mind flayer's LA is.

[Khantalas]

17. See Alhoon entry for more details.

[Caelestion]

Alhoon = 20 HD + 11 LA = CR 18, ECL 31.

[Eldpollard]

so the cr is 18?

[Khantalas]

Depends on your level. I would say that the minimum CR would be 17, based on the fact that the sample Alhoon in LoM has 12 sorcerer levels and a CR of 18.

[Mewtarthio]

Alhoon = 20 HD + 11 LA = CR 18, ECL 31.

In essence, he's running around alongside 31st-level characters but can only hold his own in a fight against CR-18 critters!

[Arbitrarity]

One of those things that ticks me off about LA....

[Khantalas]

In essence, he's running around alongside 31st-level characters but can only hold his own in a fight against CR-18 critters!

No, don't think of it that way. Think of it as: "Well, you may plane-shift once per day, which makes you much more useful out-of-combat than in-combat, though you wouldn't survive those planes with your ECL - CR unbalance anyway, so what the heck were we thinking when we introduced these two?"

I'm sure some people in Wizards need to think that.

[CockroachTeaParty]

I would just like to randomly say that Alhoon's are awesome. I mean look at the artwork! A crusty old dead mindflayer! Ooooooh...

[Turcano]

If you're willing to apply the lich template to aberrations (I'm assuming that you're the DM in question, since you're asking for a CR instead of an ECL, so you can do whatever you want), the lowest possible CR is 13: 8 racial with +3 associated sorcerer levels and +2 for the template. Remember, the prerequisite for the phylactery is based on caster levels, not class levels.

[Thomas]

Oh, dur, you can do sorcerer levels. I always think of mind flayers as 8th-level psions...

[Ninja Chocobo]

It's a good monster to throw up against PCs, but not as a PC race, like Vampires. Also, I prefer the term "Illithilich". If they're a Half-Illithid squirrel, they'd be called "Squirrillithiliches".

[Khantalas]

I am missing something, am I not? Since when do primitive mind flayers (those without XPH) cast spells as a sorcerer?

They do have a caster level of 8 for their psionic spell-like abilities, but they don't add them to their sorcerer levels to determine their caster level.

I think.

Now if they said they cast spells as 8th level sorcerers...

[Thomas]

They do cast spells as an 8th-level sorcerer. It doesn't feel right. The XPH psionic illithid is a lot more powerful, too. (Oh, the self-buffs they can have on for a fight...)

[Turcano]

I am missing something, am I not? Since when do primitive mind flayers (those without XPH) cast spells as a sorcerer?

I could have sworn that mind flayers had sorcerer caster levels, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Nevermind, then; go with the wizard levels for CR 17.

It's a good monster to throw up against PCs, but not as a PC race, like Vampires. Also, I prefer the term "Illithilich". If they're a Half-Illithid squirrel, they'd be called "Squirrillithiliches".

I'm hereby officially revoking your neologism privileges.

[Ninja Chocobo]

I'm hereby officially revoking your neologism privileges.

Exactly what is wrong with a Squirrillithilich?