Results 1 to 30 of 41
Thread: Frenzied Bersereker
-
2007-02-01, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- DC area
- Gender
Frenzied Bersereker
can a frenzied berserker voluntarily fail a save, to gain the effects of, say calm emotions? This isn't for me, but it is for a friend.
-
2007-02-01, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
I would rule probably not, because it seems to me they can't differentiate friend from foe(at least once all the obvious foes are dead).
I seem to remember a feat from BoED called Righteous Furry or something that lets you recognize friends even in a frenzy. Might be worth looking into.
-
2007-02-01, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Righteous Fury is for rages, not frenzies; there is a difference by the rules, and allowing Righteous Fury to work in a frenzy suddenly removes most of the disadvantages.
And no, I'd say you cannot voluntarily fail the save. Frenzied berserkers in a frenzy have no allies; the world is divided into:
1. Enemies, which I need to hit right now.
2. Mobile and living creatures, which I can get to once the enemies are down.
3. Everything else.Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
-
2007-02-01, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
-
2007-02-01, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
"Righteous Furry"? I know Barbarians tend to dress in animal pelts and all, but...
Anyway, the Frenzied Berserker is unable to think clearly and thus would be unable to recognize the helpful effect while in a Frenzy. Effectively, a Frenzied Berserker becomes an NPC, albeit an NPC with a certain list of primary targets.
-
2007-02-01, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Eh, that's what I get for being lazy and not looking. Although I'm pretty sure rage doesn't stop you from distinguishing friend from foe... makes me think that it would be an allowable house-rule if you wanted to play a good barbarian. Plus it's really not any more or less advantageous than the normal FB code of conduct, just different(exalted feats require that you not perform evil acts or you lose them). It might be fun to play a barbarian like that, has to keep a tight reign on his emotions or they'll overwhelm him and he goes crazy. Repressed memories maybe? Maybe just teen angst?
Pff, I didn't make a typo he's an anthropomorphic wolverine....What??Last edited by BCOVertigo; 2007-02-01 at 06:13 PM.
-
2007-02-01, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
-
2007-02-01, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
-
2007-02-01, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Here
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Maybe by RAW, they could, but I wouldn't allow it as a DM. It sort of defeats the purpose of the class, IMO.
And if I were playing a Frenzied Berserker, I wouldn't voluntarily fail the save anyway. If I did that, I wouldn't get to kill anyone.Your ad here! Call 1-800-SELLOUT.
-
2007-02-01, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
You can house rule that they can roll a Will Save to "regain control" in critical moments. Like running towards an ally, for example. That's what we used in 2nd edition with the Berzerker template.
Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
"In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
"Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."
-
2007-02-01, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Wow.. I almost always agree with you Oriong, but you are so DEAD WRONG on this one.
You would totally remove pretty much all risk of being a frenzied berserker on that call. Talk about forgetting the spirit of the law. Not to mention, they are in a frenzy, how do they recognize friends, how do they recognize a good spell? They are insane with rage, and by RAW, they act only on that rage. They attack their enemies, and when those are dead, they attack the nearest target.
-
2007-02-01, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Rage doesn't, no. The Frenzy feature of the frenzied berserker kinda does; you still attack enemies first, but if there are no enemies left, you start hitting anythiing else that moves, or (once there isn't anything left alive) inanimate objects.
Also, wait- Frenzied Berserker code of conduct...?
You can already make a Will save to end the frenzy ahead of time, incidentally.Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
-
2007-02-01, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
-
2007-02-01, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
-
2007-02-01, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
-
2007-02-01, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- California
- Gender
-
2007-02-01, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
I allow auto-failed saves when the player volunteers it, and would allow it for a FB as well. Keep in mind that the FB has to make a Will save whenever they're damaged or go into a Frenzy. I don't know about you, but every game day starts with some pointless minion or random animal battles before things get interesting. Wow, you just completely slaughtered that pack of badgers. Good for you. Over the hill is the lich you're hunting. Whoops, out of Frezy aren't you...
-
2007-02-01, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
-
2007-02-01, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- Illinois
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
i remember being in a party wit a frenzied berserker.
i was the rogue so i managed to find a place to hide whenever he ran out of enemies but he sure did kill some of the other PCs a few times. waht was really great would be when he was in deathless mode and at like -100 hp and the cleric would try to get to him to heal him but he would try to get to the cleric to dice him into pieces.Not all who wander are lost
-
2007-02-01, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
When I ended up with a frenzied berserker, I dueled him with a spiked chain, making disarm attempts.. eventually I barely won out, and took some damage.
Then he found he miscalculated his will saving throws, and I took nothing.
-
2007-02-01, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
There are plenty of ways around the Frenzy party killing issue... Rightous Wrath is just one. Others include always using a Merciful Weapon (FBs can't use command words in Frenzy, so you can't turn it off), casting Grease (FBs can't pass dex checks in Frenzy, so they can't pass the Balance to get out), using Iron Will, and so forth.
JaronK
-
2007-02-01, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Well, keep in mind that my point was that it was legal not necessarily a good idea. The 'fail a save' thing has no actual in-game component, you can fail a save versus an effect that the character doesn't even realize is happening, in fact you can auto-fail when your character is unconcious. So, nothing that affects the character actually affects your ability to auto-fail a roll.
and also consider the possibilities if you do say that the frenzier can't autofail because he doesn't know it's friendly or not. Then how would he be the subject of any friendly spell? Almost every beneficial spell allows a saving throw for unwilling targets. Certainly if the Berserker was required to make a saving throw against every healing spell, every buff effect, and so on that the party attempts to use on him you would think the description of the ability would mention it.
I dont' think it completely removes the danger by any means, if nothing else you're out a few useful spells every day and Calm Emotions only lasts concentration up to one round per level. So, unless the battle lasted quite a while (and with a frenzied berserker that's not likely) there's even the possibility that the spell won't last long enough to keep him down. And of course, like others have said, there are plenty of other ways to take down a frenzier.
-
2007-02-01, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Singapore
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
I'm pretty sure he can make Dex checks just fine. He just can't make Balance checks(I wonder if he's allowed to Climb). So I guess you could get an Animated Rope to make a bridge for the Rogue to walk over. Of course, the Berserker would likely just jump over the chasm. :P
I would require him to roll the save as normal for Calm Emotions.President of the Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustment(SHELA)
Glowing Kitty from Lilly
Wren Worgatar by Mephibosheth
The Living Bullet!
Unusual Inner Animal Avatar from Quincunx.
Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.
-
2007-02-01, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Oak Harbor, WA
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Better answer from the book of exalted deeds: Subduing Strike. And just beat your friends into unconsciousness when the enemies are all gone rather than kill 'em.
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson
Avatar by Meynolds!
-
2007-02-02, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
I'm pretty sure that even a barbarian rage disallows dealing nonlethal damage (barring unarmed strikes and saps, probably), unless you have Righteous Wrath (corrected!). Let alone an insane killing frenzy.
Climb's Strength-based, so they can climb no problem.
Merciful weapon's a good idea too; the merciful ability isn't half bad anyway, unless you're fighting constructs.Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
-
2007-02-02, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
-
2007-02-02, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
Actually, now that I think about it there's nothing preventing the FB from just dropping his weapons and beating his friends with his fists (provoking AoO) or trying to deal subduel damage (taking a -4 to hit). Frenzy requires that you keep attacking. It does't require that you be smart about it. Of course, I wouldn't allow it as a DM. But a good case could be made to allow it (the other players are my best friends, so even if I'm so angry I have to keep trying to kill them, I still have enough restraint to do it with my bare hands).
-
2007-02-02, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- Illinois
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
actually if you read the Frenzied Berserker Description...
"During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she percieves as foes to the best of her ability. Should she run out of enemies before her frenzy expires, her rampage continues. She must then attach the nearest creature (determine randomly if several potentail foes are quidistant) and fights that opponent without regard to friendship, innocence, or health (the target's or her own).
taking it easy to try and subdual or using your hands would be differentiating between her friends and her enemies, an action she is not capable of.
additionally she cannot use and charisma-, dexterity-, or intelligence-based skills (except for intimidate), the concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration...
Many would argue that dealing nonlethal damage with a lethal weapon requires a great deal of concentration, so as not to kill the person you are trying to subdue. You may argue that it says the only feats she cant use are item creation, metamagic, and combat expertise but they just moved that part from the original frenzied berserker and at the time they printed it the subdual feat didn't exist.
Also there is something just silly about claiming your so angry you have to keep trying to kill your friends, but you have enough restraint to do it in a way that you KNOW will fail to kill them.Not all who wander are lost
-
2007-02-02, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Singapore
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
I always found the !balance part of that silly.
Player: "I'm so angry that I can no longer even keep my balance when running across the narrow(less than 1 foot wide) beam to the nearest enemy!"
DM: "You fall, everybody else dies. You die when Frenzy finishes."
Player: "SCORE!"President of the Society for Hobgoblin Equality in Level Adjustment(SHELA)
Glowing Kitty from Lilly
Wren Worgatar by Mephibosheth
The Living Bullet!
Unusual Inner Animal Avatar from Quincunx.
Whenever you mention Pun-pun*SQUELCH!*, Ao kills another Kobold.
Everytime someone says "Pazuzu" twice, Ao erases them on the next "Pa". Then he undeletes them so he can wipeinfo them from the multiverse.
Everytime you kill a catgirl, I get more company.
-
2007-02-02, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- on a cosmic wagon train
- Gender
Re: Frenzied Bersereker
having played a hobgoblin barbarian/FB in a game before (it was actually one of my favorite characters), I believe the answer is no. Due to the whole being in a rabid state, you're not in a position to be able to do that. But, you can make a will save every round to try and snap out of it however. But then the whole death thing comes into play. What we did to deal with that was have one of the casters have a hold person spell ready. Since it's a will save, and a Barb/FB's weak save is will, it's not hard to get him with the spell. Then you can heal him and he can keep trying to make the will save to snap out of the frenzy while the rest of the party isn't in danger of all dying.
Last edited by purple gelatinous cube o' Doom; 2007-02-02 at 02:32 AM.
Grinning Purple Gelatinous Cube avatar courtesy of Lord_Herman
Attacking Cube courtesy of Sampi
Current avatar courtesy of Rutskarn
My GiTP stuffSpoiler
Come and join in the newly minted Fictional Character Contest