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Thread: Binders

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Binders

    Binders have recently come to my interests but I'm not quite sure what to make of them. Granted, I know they are weaker then full spell-casting classes but they also seem relatively low on the power scale with the supernatural abilities that vestiges bestow, for the majority. Now I'm not great power-gamer (And I don't use that word as an insult either) and I would like to try a binder someday. But I would also like for that character to not be useless.

    So I turn to the power-gamers here, can the binder at least hold his own up to level 20? If so, then how? What vestiges point themselves out as extradonarily useful?
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Binders

    Ignore Special Requirements is a must, take it at lvl 6 at the latest. Improved Binding is also essential, you should probably take it at lvl 1. For actual vestiges, Amon is good (and a large reason for taking ISR) so is Ronove. I don't have my books atm, so I'll edit later to add more.

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    The_Snark's Avatar

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    Default Re: Binders

    Oooh, fun. Yes, the binder can hold his own all the way up to level 20, I believe, with good planning (and bad planning is usually only a setback for a day or so.) Its strength is its versatility, sorta like the Chameleon but more eccentric.

    Basically, you can go for stealth, combat, or Other (which almost always involves Focalor...). Some vestiges are sorta doomed to be support vestiges, like Buer; fast healing and healing gift are great, but they don't contribute all that much in a fight. Always make sure you've got something to do.

    Anyway, a look at some of my favorite combinations and vestiges...

    Stealth- Good choices include Malphas, Tenebrous, Andromalius, and Marchosias. Malphas gives invisibility and some sudden strike damage, plus infinite scouting ability, which isn't bad at all; he's usually an essential for a stealth configuration. Marchosias, with +16 to sneaking skills, is pretty invaluable as well, but he's limited to high-level characters. Andromalius is okay if you can spare a slot; he adds a bit of sneak attack. Tenebrous looks like an odd choice, but the ability to cast, shape, and see perfectly in a Deeper Darkness effect goes perfectly with Sudden Strike. The ability to rebuke undead and cause extra cold damage is just a nice bonus.

    Combat- Binders don't do too well in straight combat, though they can give it a shot. Andras and Eligor are good for a mounted combat thing. Paimon is occasionally useful- he gives Whirlwind attack, plus an unholy fusion of Whirlwind Attack and Spring Attack... but it's still only useful when Whirlwind Attack would be, and it's got a recharge time. Personally, I like going with oddball combat options like Aym and Ronove- those two together, for example, deal double a monk's based damage to objects, give Improved Sunder, and give you a fire shield effect-thing. Zagan and Ronove combined can do pretty brutal grapple damage. Savnok can be decent on the defensive side.

    Other- This usually involves blasting. Focalor is pretty decent for this, since his lightning blast is useable every round, but it's only really equivalent to a warlock in damage, maybe worse. Amon also falls into this category, giving better damage but a recharge time.

    Some vestiges are always going to be useful. Balam, for example, gives you a gaze attack, bonus to AC, and the ability to reroll saves, skills, or attacks, which is always going to be fairly useful. Halphax and Orthos, the two high-level vestiges, give you some powerful options and defenses, and work pretty well with just about anything. Naberius is excellent for a diplomatic character, and gets better at high levels with a Suggestion effect. Buer is a good support vestige.

    Chupoclops, Eurynome, Agares, Geryon, Otiax, Leraje Dahlver-nar and Shax don't seem to give very much compared with equivalent vestiges; I tend to avoid them using my binder character. Haagenti doesn't seem to hit her stride until 19th level. Acererak is very useful against undead, not so good at any other time.

    Improved Binding is a good feat, expanding your options at most levels. Expel Vestige allows you to rearrange your abilities given a little time if they aren't working out for you. If you end up in melee a lot, take Power Attack, if you hang back and use abilities take Sudden Ability Focus... depends on what you like to do. Picking feats you'll be able to use no matter what vestiges you have is what you want to aim for, but it's tough.

    It's generally pretty fun to play a binder; you're not going to fall behind any more than the fighter and rogue, really, and it's entertaining.
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Binders

    I have to say, the binder is one of the coolest classes I've seen, but I have no idea about how to play one. It seems to me that one would generally fall into a set pattern of vestiges, only swaping out one or two if ever, but I love just about everything about it, except how the vestiges are layed out. There's not enough to make a quick reference table (like those for full casters), but there's too many for me to remember them all. But all signs point to fun if actually played.
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    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: Binders

    Binder is a good other side for a gestalt
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    Frojoe21's Avatar

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    Default Re: Binders

    WOTC also throws a couple Vestiges on their site. More recently, the had psionic Vestiges up.

    I've only glanced through the Binder's stuff, but I must say that is an interesting class. Really do wish they would OGC the stuff so that it could have a bit more open support.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Binders

    Last edited by Revin; 2007-02-02 at 12:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Binders

    Since we are already posting CO links, why don't we include the second main binder guide (there are two).

    http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607826
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