Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats)

    The Great Fighting Style Rebalancing

    So I did up (and posted) most of this a few years back, as an attempt to balance the weapon styles. I've been using/tweaking them on and off since then, and figured it's about time to repost these with the various changes. Since the original version, there's been a number of updates cleaning up most of the feats, and removing ones that didn't work out. Additionally a new section is being added for Combat Maneuvers, which got a rework similar to the Fighting Styles.

    The goal here is to consolidate the most common fighting styles to a 2-3 feat chain, and get the various styles more balanced against each other. Basically at level 1 you should be good at your fighting style and have everything that is necessary to do your job. By level 6, you should be done with it, and be a master of that style. Many styles may be combined together synergistically. For example, the Two Handed Weapon style is entirely compatible with the Ranged Weapon style, the Reach Weapon style, or even the Shield weapon style. Characters should be able to mix and match these to get some interesting results.

    Each combat maneuver gets a two-feat chain similar to the fighting styles, taking the maneuver from a minor thing you might want to try in a niche situation to a major part of your reportoire. The goal with these is to hit the kind of utility that Dungeoncrasher+Knockback gets out of Bullrush. I don't think I'm quite there yet, but I tried and am looking for a feedback on that area in particular.

    Also just to say it up front, all [Maneuver] and [Style] feats are available as Fighter bonus feats.

    Systemic Changes

    The first part of rebalancing the weapon styles means tearing down some of the foundations of the styles from 3.5. This involves some changes to how some of the core mechanics work. The main goal of these changes is reducing feat taxes placed upon a lot of styles.

    TWFing Change: Fighting with Two Weapons is now treated as a Martial Weapon Proficiency. If you have a proficiency with two weapon fighting, you may attack with both weapons with a -4 penalty (-2 if the offhand weapon is light), as a full attack action. As a part of a full attack you may make an additional offhand attack for every main hand attack from base attack bonus. If you lack the proficiency, you take an additional -4 penalty to all attacks. In addition to classes with martial weapon proficiency, Rogues have this proficiency for free.
    THFing Change: Wielding a weapon with two hands gains you no special benefits unless you take a feat that increases the benefits of having a second hand on the weapon. Power Attack loses its default bonus damage for having a two hander
    Ranged Combat Change: The penalty for firing into melee no longer exists. The penalty for doing so is accurately enough modeled by the cover rules, having both is an unnecessary feat tax. Also, the majority of the Archery feats are either feats that don't need to be archery only (Rapidshot, Manyshot), already covered by non-range specific feats (Spring Attack/Shot on The Run), or not particularly useful (when's the last time you needed to snipe someone from half a mile away with Far Shot?). So basically all feats currently targetted towards range cease to exist, and are either left to rot, replaced by the feats in this topic, or should be adapted to work with both melee and range.
    Shield Change: The bashing property no longer exists, being rolled into Shield Bash Mastery, to reduce reliance on a specific magic item to deal decent damage with your shield. The Animated Property also no longer exists.
    Combat Maneuver Change:: Bullrush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, Sunder, and Trip no longer provoke attacks of opportunity when used without a feat. Additionally, Size Modifiers for combat maneuvers are 2/4/8/16 (ie double the normal size modifier), rather than +4 per size category.
    Light/Finessible Weapon Change: Weapon Finesse no longer exists as a feat. If you are wielding a weapon that is light, or has the finessible property, then you may opt to use your strength or dexterity modifier to attack, whichever is higher.
    Unarmed Combat Change: Unarmed Combat is considered a simple weapon proficiency, that is now granted to Monks, Swordsages, and all characters who have proficiency in all simple weapons. Having proficiency in unarmed combat means that you do not provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed attack, and you do not take the non-proficiency penalty to attack rolls.
    Power Attack: Is no longer a feat, and is instead a standard combat option, much like fighting defensively.
    Fighting Defensively: Now works like Combat Expertise+Improved Combat Expertise. Combat Expertise is no longer a feat. Fighting Defensively additionally now doubles a shield bonus to AC when taking a penalty to hit of at least -3.
    Total Defense: No longer prevents you from taking AoOs. Provides benefits of Fighting Defensively as though you took a penalty equal to BAB, and any miss chance you possess forces enemies to roll twice and take the worse result. All AoO attacks are made at a -5 penalty to hit.



    Feat Name Prerequisites Benefit
    Style Feats
    Improved TWo-Weapon Fighting Dex 13 Gain extra off-hand attacks
    Two-Weapon Rend Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+3 Reduce TWF penalties. Deal Rend damage after hitting with both weapons.
    Two-Weapon Defense Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+6 Gain defensive benefits while wielding two weapons.
    Improved Two-Handed Fighting Str 13, Proficiency with Two-handed weapon Increase damage from strength and power attack.
    Mighty Blows Improved Two-Handed Fighting, BAB+3 Increase effective size for weapon damage
    Sweeping Strikes Improved Two-Handed Fighting, BAB+6 Attack Multiple Squares
    Einhander - Gain bonuses wielding single weapon
    Parry and Riposte Einhander, BAB+3 Attack enemies that miss you.
    Open Handed Specialist Einhander, BAB+6 Increase power attack damage with one-handed weapon. Gain additional benefits if you leave your offhand completely empty.
    Shield Fighter Proficiency with shields Improve Shield AC, Shield AC applies to more things.
    Warder Shield Fighter, BAB+3 Gain cover from shield, provide defensive benefits to allies
    Precise Shot Dex13 Ignore cover allies provide to enemies. Gain dexterity to damage with ranged weapon.
    Missile Mastery Precise Shot, BAB+3 Use combat maneuvers at range.
    Sniper Precise Shot, BAB+6 Gain benefits for fighting at extreme ranges
    Reach Weapon Specialist Dex13 Attack adjacent enemies with reach weapon, gain extra AoOs per round
    Harrier Reach Weapon Specialist, BAB+6 Increase Reach+5ft, enemies within reach take penalties
    Mounted Combat Ride 4 ranks Gain benefits while mounted, use ride to protect mount.
    Improved Mounted Combat Mounted Combat Share [Manuever] feats with mount, use ride check for reflex save.
    Improved Unarmed Strike Proficiency with Unarmed Deal extra damage with unarmed strike.
    Shield Bash Mastery Shield Fighter, BAB+3 Keep AC while shield bashing. Shield bash deals more damage.
    Prime Threat Intimidate 5 ranks Enemies must attack you or take penalties
    Maneuver Feats
    Improved Aid Another Int 13 Use Aid Another as Swift Action, Aid Another more effective
    Unit Leader Improved Aid Another, BAB+6 Aid Another multiple allies at once
    Improved Bullrush Strength 13 +4 to bullrush, other benefits while bullrushing
    Forceful Blow Improved Bullrush, BAB+6 Increase size for bullrush. Damage and daze opponents you bullrush
    Improved Disarm Dex 13 +4 to disarm, damage disarmed opponents.
    Greater Disarm Improved Disarm Increase size for disarm. Disarm supernatural abilities.
    Improved Feint Dex 13 +4 on feint attempts, feint lasts until end of your turn.
    Wily Warrior Improved Feint Take extra 5ft steps when feinting. Apply stacking penalty to feint target.
    Improved Grapple Str 13, Imp Unarmed Strike +4 on grapple checks, use one-handed weapons in grapple
    Flexible Grab Improved Grapple Increased size for grapple, grapple smaller creatures with ease
    Improved Overrun Str13 +4 to Overrun, deal damage and push enemy when you overrun them
    Juggernaut Improved Overrun Increased size for Overrun. Overrun no longer takes a standard action.
    Improved Sunder Str13 +4 to Sunder. Sunder natural weapons.
    Sundering Cleave Improved Sunder Increased size for Sunder. Make free attack against opponent after successful sunder.
    Improved Trip - +4 to Trip, make free attack after successful trip.
    The Bigger They Are... Improved Trip Increased size for Trip. Deal damage to large tripped creatures.
    Combat Maneuver Specialist Int 13, any 4 [Maneuver] Feats Gain +4 bonus to maneuvers, use one maneuver as a free action 1/round.
    Combat Panache 1[Maneuver] Feat, Cha13 Shaken foes after successful maneuver.
    Agile Technician 2[Maneuver] Feats, Dex13 Use Dex mod in place of strength for combat maneuvers.
    General Feats
    Rapid Attack Dex 15, BAB+6 Make extra attacks as a standard action
    Greater Rapid Attack Rapid Attack Each attack from Rapid Attack counts as a separate attack.
    Flurry BAB+1 Make extra attack as a full round action at -2
    Improved Flurry BAB+11, Flurry Remove penalty from flurry, gain second bonus attack.
    Spring Attack Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, BAB+4 Move before and after standard action

    Fighting Styles
    Two-Weapon Fighting
    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [Style] [Fighter]
    Prerequisite: Dexterity 13, Proficiency with two-weapon fighting
    Benefit: Any time you make a single attack (such as a standard action attack, an attack of opportunity, or a charge), you may attack with both of your weapons. Additionally, any bonus attacks you gain from sources other than base attack bonus (such as Haste, or Flurry) on a full attack now also grant an offhand attack.

    Two-Weapon Rend [Style] [Fighter]
    Prerequisite: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+3
    Benefit: You may add your full strength modifier to offhand damage. When you deal damage with both of your weapons to a target on the same turn, you automatically deal extra damage as if you hit with your offhand weapon, with damage bonuses from attribute doubled. You may deal damage with this feat once per target per round. Additionally, your penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand and offhand lessens by 1 per 5 points of base attack bonus you possess (the penalty cannot be reduced below 0).

    Two-Weapon Defense [Style] [Fighter]
    Prerequisite: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB+6
    Benefit: You gain a +2 shield bonus to armor class while wielding a weapon in each hand. Additionally, while fighting defensively with a penalty of at least -3 to-hit, if an opponent's attack misses, you may make a free attack with your offhand weapon against the opponent. This attack may not be used for any special maneuvers, but does not count as an attack of opportunity.


    Two Handed Fighting
    Improved Two-Handed Fighting [Style]
    Prerequisite: Str 13, proficiency with a weapon that may be held in two hands.
    Benefit: While wielding a weapon with both hands, your damage bonus from strength is increased by 50%. Additionally, if you have the Power Attack feat and this feat, while wielding a two handed weapon your damage bonus from power attack is doubled.

    Mighty Blows [Style]
    Prerequisite: Improved Two-Handed Fighting, BAB+3
    Benefit: While wielding a two handed weapon, your base weapon damage is increased as if you were one size category larger, plus an additional size category if your BAB is above +10. Additionally, your strength modifier to damage with two handed weapons is increased by another 50% (so your strength bonus to damage is now doubled).
    Special: Your weapon's effective size may not exceed colossal.

    Sweeping Strikes [Style]
    Prerequisite: Improved Two-Handed Fighting, BAB+6
    Benefit: While wielding a two-handed weapon, for each melee attack made, you can choose 2 squares threatened that are adjacent to each other, and his attacks apply to creatures in those two squares equally. This ability may be used on any attack, even an attack of opportunity or a cleave attempt.

    One Weapon Fighting
    Einhander [Style]
    Benefit: When attacking with a one handed weapon held in one hand, and no other weapons, you gain +2 to hit and and +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class. Additionally, you gain a bonus to damage equal to your dexterity modifier. You also gain a +4 bonus to Feint, Disarm, and Trip attempts made while wielding a one handed weapon in one hand.

    Parry and Riposte [Style]
    Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+3
    Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least a -3 penalty to hit, and an enemy misses an attack against your AC by at least 5 points, you can sacrifice one of your opportunity attacks for the round, and choose to either use a combat maneuver against the opponent, or deal damage to them as though you hit them with your weapon.

    Open Hand Mastery [Style]
    Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+6
    Benefit: When you use Power Attack with a one handed weapon in one hand, you can gain +1d6 damage for every 2 points of BAB sacrificed.

    Special: If your offhand is left empty (in addition to simply not being used to attack), your bonuses from Einhander are increased to +4, and your AC bonus from Einhander is doubled when fighting defensively with at least a -3 penalty to hit.

    Defensive Shield Use
    Shield Fighter [Style]
    Prerequisite: Proficiency with a shield
    Benefit: While wearing a shield, you increase your shield bonus to AC by 1, and your shield bonus applies to your Touch AC, Reflex Saves, and when defending against combat maneuvers. Additionally, while fighting defensively with at least a -3 penalty to hit, you gain a miss chance equal to 5% per point of shield bonus to AC you possess (not counting the doubling from fighting defensively. So a Figher with this feat and a +5 Heavy Shield has a +8 shield bonus to AC, granting 40% miss chance).

    Warder [Style]
    Prerequisite: Shield Fighter, BAB+3
    Benefit: While wielding a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other, but not attacking with the shield, you gain soft cover, and can treat squares you threaten as granting soft cover to allies. When you fight defensively with a penalty of at least -3, you can choose to block line of effect to squares directly behind you, plus an extra 5 feet around you per 8 points of base attack bonus. This does not prevent spells from affecting you. (So at BAB+16, you can block line of effect through your square, and up to 10ft around you).

    Additionally, any ally adjacent to you gains your shield bonus to armor class.

    Ranged Combat
    Precise Shot [Style]
    Prerequisites: Dex 13
    Benefit: You may designate one ally as a free action, you may ignore this ally when determining if a target has soft cover relative to you. You additionally may add your dexterity modifier to damage rolls while using a ranged weapon within 1 range increment of your target.

    Missile Mastery[Style]
    Prerequisites: Precise Shot, BAB+3
    Benefit: You may use combat maneuvers (such as disarm, grapple, and trip) with a ranged weapon against targets within one range increment, though you take a -4 penalty to the check.

    Sniper [Style]
    Prerequisites: Precise Shot, BAB+6
    Benefit: You may use all precision damage, as well as your dexterity modifier to damage, at any range. The range increment for any weapon you wield is doubled, and penalties for firing weapons at farther range increments are reduced to -1 per range increment.

    Reach Weapons
    Reach Weapon Specialist [Style]
    Prerequisite: Dexterity 13
    Benefit: You are capable of striking opponents adjacent to you with any reach weapon that you hold. Additionally, while wielding a reach weapon, you may take additional attacks of opportunity per round equal to 1/4th your base attack bonus, plus your dexterity modifier.
    Special: This feat may be used in place of Combat Reflexes to meet the prerequisites to qualify for other feats or prestige classes. The benefits of this feat and Combat Reflexes do not stack.

    Harrier [Style]
    Prerequisite: Reach Weapon Specialist, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your reach is increased by 5 feet. Additionally, all enemies within your reach take a penalty equal to 1/4th your base attack bonus to attack rolls, saving throw DCs, and twice that amount as a penalty to skill checks.

    Mounted Combat
    Mounted Combat[Style]
    Prerequisite: Ride 4 ranks
    Benefit: You can take 10 on ride checks, even when rushed or threatened. When your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as a reaction) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent’s attack roll. Finally, all penalties for using ranged weapons while mounted are reduced by 2 points.

    Improved Mounted Combat[Style]
    Prerequisite: Mounted Combat
    Benefit: While mounted, you can make a DC20 Ride check as a move action to treat the creature you are riding as though it has access to one [Maneuver] Feat that you possess. You may share one additional [Maneuver] feat for every 10 points you beat the DC by.

    The mount retains feats shared in this way for 5 minutes, and the mount may only use the feats while you are riding it. You may not attempt to share feats with your mount more often than once every 5 minutes.

    Other
    Improved Unarmed Strike [Style]
    Prerequisite: Proficiency in unarmed combat
    Benefit: Your Unarmed Strike damage is increased to 2d6 and you no longer take a penalty to attack rolls while attacking an opponent while grappling. If your BAB is +3 or higher, you may treat your fists as Masterwork.

    Additionally, upon taking this feat, you may choose to treat your unarmed attacks as a single one handed weapon, two weapons, or a two handed weapon, at will. Changing between these styles requires a swift action. Using your unarmed strike as a two handed weapon or as two weapons does require having both hands free, even if you strike with other parts of your body.

    Special: Monks gain this feat as a bonus feat at level 1, instead of the normal monk unarmed damage scaling.

    Shield Bash Mastery[Style]
    Prerequisite: Shield Fighter, BAB+3
    Benefit: When you perform a shield bash, you may still apply the shield’s shield bonus to your AC, and your shield is considered 2 size categories larger when determining the damage it deals. When you hit an enemy with both your mainhand weapon and your shield on the same turn (or if you hit him with a shield being used two-handed), the enemy must make a Fortitude Save DC 10+1/2 HD+Strength Modifier, or be dazed until the beginning of your next turn.

    Prime Threat[Style]
    Prerequisites: Intimidate 5 ranks
    Benefit: When you attack an enemy you can choose to make an intimidate check, with a bonus equal to the damage dealt, against the enemy's Will Save. If they fail this check, they must include you as a target of any attack it makes, or take a penalty equal to 1/3 of your BAB (round up) to all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability DCs until it resumes attacking you. You may have this effect active on up to 1 enemy, plus one additional enemy per 4 points of base attack bonus you possess (round down). This effect lasts 5 minutes


    Combat Maneuver Feats
    Improved Aid Another[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Int 13
    Benefit: The bonus from your Aid Another action is doubled. You may make Aid Another attempts as an attack action or swift action. Any ally that you aid gains the benefit of your aid until the start of your next turn against all enemies.

    Unit Leader[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Aid Another, BAB+6
    Benefit: When aiding allies, they gain the Aid Another bonus to both Attack Rolls and Armor Class. When you use the Aid Another action you may provide the bonus to one additional ally within your reach for every 3 points of BAB possessed. If you are fighting defensively with a penalty of at least -3 to hit while using this ability, you provide aided allies a bonus to AC equal to the AC bonus you gained from fighting defensively if it is higher.

    Improved Bull Rush[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Strength 13
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to all checks made to bull rush an opponent. When bull rushing, for every square you push an opponent back, you may choose to push them one square to the left or right. If you bull rush one opponent into another, you may make an additional bullrush attempt against the second creature. If successful both creatures are knocked prone.

    Forceful Blow[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Bull Rush, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for bull rush attempts increases by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. If you beat your opponent's roll on an opposed bullrush check by 5 or more, you may choose to knock the opponent back the increased distance without following them. If you do so, the opponent takes 1d6 points of damage for every 5ft moved. If they are knocked into a solid object or creature before the movement ends, the damage taken is doubled and dealt to both the target and whatever they are knocked into. Any opponent you knockback more than 15ft with a single attempt must make a Fortitude save or be knocked prone and dazed for one round

    Improved Disarm[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Dex 13
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to all checks made to disarm an opponent, and always count as using a two-handed weapon for the purpose of disarming. When you successfully disarm an opponent, you can choose to either grab the weapon, or knock it away 5ft +5ft per point of BAB you possess. If you make a successful disarm attack against an opponent, you may deal damage to the opponent as though you hit them with a standard attack.

    Greater Disarm[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Disarm, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for disarm attempts increases by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. Additionally, enemies with supernatural abilities or the ability to cast spells are considered armed to you. You may attempt to disarm them of these abilities. When attempting to disarm such a creature, they use their Caster level or Hit Dice (whichever is higher) + their casting stat (or charisma if one is not specified). Disarming such a foe removes one special ability of your choice that you are aware of. You may not disarm an ability you are unaware of.

    Improved Feint[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Dex 13
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on feint attempts, and may choose to use your dexterity mod in place of cha mod on bluff checks made for feinting if desired. Feint may be used as a swift action. When you successfully feint, the target remains flatfooted until the end of your turn (instead of just against the next attack)

    Wily Warrior[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Feint, BAB+6
    Benefit: Whenever you successfully feint against a target, you may take a 5ft step (this does not count against your normal movement limit for a round). Additionally, any time you feint against an opponent, in addition to leaving them flatfooted the target takes a -1 penalty to attack rolls, save DCs, AC, and Saving Throws, which stacks with itself each time it is applied. Any time you score a critical hit, you may make a feint check as a free action.

    Improved Grapple[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Str 13, Improved Unarmed Strike
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple. Additionally, you may use a one-handed weapon as though it were light while grappling.

    Flexible Grab[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Grapple, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for grapple checks increases by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. Additionally, if you initiate a grapple against an opponent at least one size smaller than you (accounting for the increased grapple size granted by this feat), you may continue to keep the opponent grappled but otherwise act normally as though you were not grappling. You must still make checks to maintain your grapple each round as normal, but you do not need to make a check to move, or take any other action you wish to, even if you could not normally do so while grappling.

    Improved Overrun[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Str 13
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to all Overrun checks. Additionally, when making an Overrun attempt, your opponent no longer has the choice to Avoid you, they must attempt to Block you. If you succeed, the target takes 4d6+2xStr damage, and is pushed 5ft in a direction of your choice.

    Special: If you have the Improved Bullrush feat, you may choose to make a bullrush attempt against any enemy you overrun, to try to push them back further than the standard 5ft.

    Juggernaut[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Overrun, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for Overrun checks increases by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. Additionally, Overrunning an opponent is no longer a Standard Action. During any movement you make, you may attempt to move into an opponents square to initiate the Overrun as a free action.

    Improved Sunder[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Str13
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to all Sunder checks. You are always counted as wielding a two-handed weapon for Sunder Checks, regardless of what type of weapon you use. Your skill allows you to damage objects in such a way that you render them unusable, but can be easily repaired with a DC15 craft check appropriate to the item.

    Additionally, if a creature uses a specific limb for a natural attack (such as a Claw attack) you may attempt to disable that attack. Treat the limb as having a hardness equal to 5+the creature's DR (if any) and 3 hit points per hit die of the creature. If successful, any attempts to use that attack take a -4 penalty to hit and damage, and the base damage dice is reduced to a 1d3 if the attack is normally higher. The functionality of this limb may be restored with 24 hours and a DC20 heal check, or the Lesser Restoration spell.

    Sundering Cleave[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Sunder, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for Sunder checks increases by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. Additionally when you successfully sunder an object being worn or carried by an opponent, you may immediately make an attack against the foe. The additional attack is with the same weapon and at the same attack bonus as the attack that destroyed the weapon or shield.

    Improved Trip[Maneuver]
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to trip attempts. If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.

    The Bigger They Are...[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Improved Trip, BAB+6
    Benefit: Your effective size category for Trip attempts is increased by 1 for every 5 points of BAB you possess. Additionally, when you trip a creature that is Large size or larger, they take twice their size modifier in d6 damage (so a large creature takes 2d6, a Colossal creature takes 16d6) plus twice your strength modifier.

    Combat Maneuver Specialist[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: Int 13, 4 [Maneuver] Feats
    Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus to all combat maneuvers. Additionally, you may initiate a combat maneuver as a free action once per round on your turn.

    Combat Panache [Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: 1 [Maneuver] Feat, Cha13
    Benefit: When you succeed on a combat maneuver, you do it with a flair. As a free action, you choose one opponent within 30ft, that opponent must make a Will Save DC10+1/2 level+cha mod, or be shaken for 2 rounds.

    Agile Technician[Maneuver]
    Prerequisite: 2 [Maneuver] Feats, Dex13
    Benefit: You may use your Dexterity Modifier in place of your Strength modifier for all combat maneuvers.




    Generic Feats

    The following feats are modified versions of existing feats that have been changed to help the balance between the styles, by making the feats available to all styles. This particularly helps a fighter or other character with many feats who wants to pursue more than one fighting style, by allowing more of the feats to synergize.

    Rapid Attack[Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Dex 15, Base Attack Bonus +6
    Benefit: As a standard action, you may make two attacks at a single opponent. Both attacks use the same attack roll (with a -4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).
    For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one attack to this action, to a maximum of four attacks at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each attack after the second adds a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of -6 for three attacks and -8 for four). Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each attack.

    Special:
    Regardless of the number of attacks made, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first attack made deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage.

    Special: If you have Improved Two Weapon Fighting, when using this feat you may make an attack with each weapon for every attack granted by this feat via BAB. Normal Two Weapon Fighting penalties apply. For example a character with this feat and improved two weapon fighting at BAB+16 would make 4 attacks with both their mainhand and offhand, at a -8 penalty.

    Greater Rapid Attack[Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Rapid Attack
    Benefit: When you use the Rapid Attack feat, you may choose to attack different opponents with each attack, instead of using all attacks on the same target. You make a separate attack roll for each attack, regardless of whether you attack separate targets or the same target. Your precision-based damage applies to each attack, and, if you score a critical hit with more than one attack, each critical hit deals critical damage.

    Flurry[Fighter]
    Prerequisites: BAB+1
    Benefit: You may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When making a full round attack, you may make one extra attack in a round at your highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as is each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity you might make before your next action.

    Improved Flurry[Fighter]
    Prerequisites: BAB+11, Flurry
    Benefit: When using your Flurry feat you no longer take a penalty to attack rolls. You may alternatively choose to take a -2 penalty to attack rolls to gain a second extra attack during a full attack action.

    Spring Attack[Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
    Benefit: You can move both before and after taking a standard action, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. This feat may not be used in conjunction with casting a spell or spell-like ability.

    You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2014-04-13 at 12:48 AM.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  2. - Top - End - #2

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    This... is quite a significant change. Flurry and Rapid Attack allows you to make a total of six attacks as standard action... yes its a -10 penalty, but there's ways to get around it.

    I like the one-handed weapon feats as well. Turning Power Attack into a 1d6-2 ratio is cool. Its not as reliable as your normal power attack, but its pretty strong.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    The Sweeping Strikes prerequisite is missing "Improved".

    I really hate the einhander tree:
    Everyone will use einhander for their combat maneuvers forever. While that makes sense thematically for finesse attacks (trip), it's really weird that you're better at throwing people into walls (overrun, bull rush) when you only use one hand. Also, adding yet another +4 bonus seems over the top, but I don't know how to fix that.

    Parry and Riposte is an obnoxious feat. There's no per-round limit so you can literally double or triple the number of dice rolled when resolving an attack against you. It also makes the fight a big padded sumo match and is obnoxiously exclusive. I recommend either baking it into the game or tossing it entirely.

    I don't understand why you tied one-handed fighting to feinting (flashy offensvie). That seems like it should just be a feinting feat. I also don't understand how being flashy yields you bonus damage.

    Open Handed specialist giving Dex to maneuvers is a really bad idea. Forcing characters to wait till level 6 to be SAD is a huge trade in power now for power later. The only thing I really like about this tree is the bonus d6's for power attack, but even that is a pain because it'll be used mostly for rogues who are already rolling buckets of them.

    The more I look at these, the more emphasis I see on fighting defensively. The boosts you're handing out (like a baseline +6 AC and 15% miss chance from Shield Fighter) seem like a really big deal in exchange for a 5% smaller chance to hit.

    Warder should just say what the shield other spell does, instead of referencing it. Also, you seem to have a penchant for putting 3-4 abilities into any given [Style] feat. This is not for new players.

    I'm really not a fan of putting Dex to damage at level 3, but it's better than level 6. Also, einhander + missile mastery = you have a higher chance to grapple people at range with a hand crossbow than you do with a longbow.

    Isn't Reach Weapon Mastery superior to Combat Reflexes, since it scales off Dex + 1/4 BAB instead of just BAB? Did you mean to rewrite Combat Reflexes, or does every AoO tank take Reach Weapon Mastery even if he uses a spiked chain or rapier?

    Harrier is strange, in that it lowers you opponent's attack-based offense (but not ability-based offense), and their ability-based defense (but not attack-based defense). Any reason for not making it AB/DC or AC/Saves?

    Negating attacks with Mounted Combat has always been weird to me. You can take cover, and if your mount gets hit while you're using it as cover, then you can negate the attack on your mount. But this is just a combination of skill mastery, Mounted Combat, and Mounted Archery, so it's fine.

    How often can you make the DC 20 ride check to give your mount [Maneuver] feats with Imp Mounted Combat?

    Imp Unarmed Strike should say your damage "is increased to 2d6". Also, 2d6 damage is like a greatsword, and while that's fine at level 1 because everyone with MWP can use a greatsword, it's just really weird that the monk can hit dudes as hard as a sharp 10 lb lever. Also, you should really consider including that bit about not provoking AoOs for unarmed strikes, since getting stabbed for making an attack really hurts.

    Shield Bash Mastery is the best single-target crowd control at late levels, and the worst at low levels because the DC scaling is wonky. 10 + 3/2 level is not a good save progression to have. Something like 10 + 1/2 HD + StrMod is better, and even then it's still crappy at low levels because AC is so high in comparison, and it's still pretty much a guaranteed proc at high levels. I'd definitely consider combining this with ITWF and some form of free movement.

    Prime Threat is that quasi-mind control that makes the PHB II Knight and the Goad feat unpopular. I don't like it for the same reasons.
    All work I do is CC-BY-SA. Copy it wherever you want as long as you credit me.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    The Sweeping Strikes prerequisite is missing "Improved".
    I'll fix that.

    I really hate the einhander tree:
    Everyone will use einhander for their combat maneuvers forever. While that makes sense thematically for finesse attacks (trip), it's really weird that you're better at throwing people into walls (overrun, bull rush) when you only use one hand. Also, adding yet another +4 bonus seems over the top, but I don't know how to fix that.

    Parry and Riposte is an obnoxious feat. There's no per-round limit so you can literally double or triple the number of dice rolled when resolving an attack against you. It also makes the fight a big padded sumo match and is obnoxiously exclusive. I recommend either baking it into the game or tossing it entirely.

    I don't understand why you tied one-handed fighting to feinting (flashy offensvie). That seems like it should just be a feinting feat. I also don't understand how being flashy yields you bonus damage.

    Open Handed specialist giving Dex to maneuvers is a really bad idea. Forcing characters to wait till level 6 to be SAD is a huge trade in power now for power later. The only thing I really like about this tree is the bonus d6's for power attack, but even that is a pain because it'll be used mostly for rogues who are already rolling buckets of them.
    Open Handed specialist giving dex to maneuvers is actually a holdover from before I had the maneuver feats. Same with the feinting thing. I'll do another pass at Einhander to alieviate some of the concerns here. At the very least the one einhander style should get a bonus to Disarm and Feint, and I like the idea of improved Bullrushing (though it makes more sense without forceful blow. I like the idea of the one-handed weapon duelist maneuvering his opponent where he wants him and following along, not so much him making a backhand smack and knocking the enemy further. But I'm not sure how to make that work without weird exception based clunkiness).

    Einhander I may have gone a bit overboard on, but since it's such an undersupported style in core, I really wanted to see it have a real function.

    The more I look at these, the more emphasis I see on fighting defensively. The boosts you're handing out (like a baseline +6 AC and 15% miss chance from Shield Fighter) seem like a really big deal in exchange for a 5% smaller chance to hit.
    Generally focusing on offense is much more potent than focusing on defense. I wanted to make the more defensively oriented feats and actions worthwhile. I might make some of them use a minimum -2 or -3 fighting defensively penalty (like a lot of current fighting defensively/combat expertise boosts do currently), but the general idea of give up a little offense to provide a meaningful defensive boost is entirely intentional.

    Warder should just say what the shield other spell does, instead of referencing it.
    Sure, why not. Also going to change it from within reach to within that 5-10ft zone.

    I'm really not a fan of putting Dex to damage at level 3, but it's better than level 6. Also, einhander + missile mastery = you have a higher chance to grapple people at range with a hand crossbow than you do with a longbow.
    Are you saying you don't like the dex to damage, or that you feel it would be better at level 1? I could see replacing the point blank shot effect with dex to damage. Missile Mastery may or may not need something to make up for that (Missile Mastery becomes a much more niche feat without it, but still a fairly useful niche feat for those who want to go that route. Bullrushing and Grappling people with arrows is fun).

    Isn't Reach Weapon Mastery superior to Combat Reflexes, since it scales off Dex + 1/4 BAB instead of just BAB? Did you mean to rewrite Combat Reflexes, or does every AoO tank take Reach Weapon Mastery even if he uses a spiked chain or rapier?
    Intent was that you get the bonus AoOs only while wielding a reach weapon, to give someone focused in those weapons an edge in the AoO game.

    How often can you make the DC 20 ride check to give your mount [Maneuver] feats with Imp Mounted Combat?
    Good point, the feat is pretty vague. Intent is it's something you do once a combat, and the shared feats last for that combat. I'll clean it up.

    Harrier is strange, in that it lowers you opponent's attack-based offense (but not ability-based offense), and their ability-based defense (but not attack-based defense). Any reason for not making it AB/DC or AC/Saves?
    I think my original reasoning here was that the skill check penalty made casting defensively harder, though thinking about it now, the penalty is pretty low to matter for that use. Going with AB/Save DCs is probably more interesting.

    Imp Unarmed Strike should say your damage "is increased to 2d6". Also, 2d6 damage is like a greatsword, and while that's fine at level 1 because everyone with MWP can use a greatsword, it's just really weird that the monk can hit dudes as hard as a sharp 10 lb lever. Also, you should really consider including that bit about not provoking AoOs for unarmed strikes, since getting stabbed for making an attack really hurts.
    From the top of the post: "Unarmed Combat is considered a simple weapon proficiency, that is now granted to Monks, Swordsages, and all characters who have proficiency in all simple weapons. Having proficiency in unarmed combat means that you do not provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed attack, and you do not take the non-proficiency penalty to attack rolls."

    As far as the damage, you already pointed out it's not broken, and people have accepted monks hitting with higher base damage with their fists than a greatsword at high levels for a while now. Yeah, this pushes the level that happens down some which can raise some eyebrows, but it works. It's already basically a feat tax to fight unarmed, I'd have to have a more solid reason to make it worse.

    Shield Bash Mastery is the best single-target crowd control at late levels, and the worst at low levels because the DC scaling is wonky. 10 + 3/2 level is not a good save progression to have. Something like 10 + 1/2 HD + StrMod is better, and even then it's still crappy at low levels because AC is so high in comparison, and it's still pretty much a guaranteed proc at high levels. I'd definitely consider combining this with ITWF and some form of free movement.
    This one's just embarassing. That +level is supposed to be +strength mod, and somehow after writing it I read it a half dozen times without noticing that's what I wrote.

    Prime Threat is that quasi-mind control that makes the PHB II Knight and the Goad feat unpopular. I don't like it for the same reasons.
    Some form of making yourself a more desirable target is going in. You already noted there's a fair bit of focus on more defensive styles. Well, we all know that all of the defense in the world means nothing if they attack the squishy guy next to you. And as it stands, the only way to prevent that is to be a reach specialist with a focus on locking down enemies around you. It's a viable tactic, but a Sword and Board warrior on the front lines is iconic and should have some way to get enemies to attack him (this was originally actually the first feat for a Sword and Board style, that got separated out into something separate).

    That said, there are other options. The issue is, people who take issue with the Knight/Goad, tend to also take issue with any other possible mechanic I've seen or heard of that accomplishes a similar thing. And while I can understand not wanting explicit mind control (eg. "You will attack me and have no choice in the matter!"), being able to make attacking you despite your defenses a much better option is something I think can and should be doable. [Note: The Knight's version forces enemies to attack you, no choice in the matter. Goad does the same thing. So I think comparing this feat to either of them is being somewhat unfair]

    Current Option: Choose an enemy, they take a penalty for attacking anyone else.

    Other possible options:
    -Take attacks of opportunity against enemies who attack your allies within your reach
    -Provide penalties to all enemies attacking allies within your reach
    -Provide defensive bonuses to allies within your reach
    -Redirect enemy attack to you instead of ally
    -Feign opening. Some sort of evolution of feint that makes you look more vulnerable and off-balance than you are, encouraging enemies to attack you. (This is probably legitimately more mind-controllery than what is already there though)
    -Rider option: Get off turn movement to get adjacent to allies to defend them with one of the above options

    The real issue I have with these is most of them incentivize reach, and while I love the reach/control style, like I said I also like the idea of other defensive styles being viable. Being able to pick up and lock down single opponents seems to me like something that a sword and board fighter should be able to do without feeling like he should go out and get a kusari-gama to threaten a bigger area. There's also the issue that none of these really incentivize attacking the guy with a big shield, it's just the guy with a big shield getting in the way, spending his actions to try to disrupt the enemy.

    Probably the best feeling one of these to me is Redirecting the enemy attack + move off turn, so you have a shield warrior running across the field to stop a crucial enemy attack. That's a very cinematic sort of thing, and I could see it working, and it's definitely not mind control.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ziegander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pabrygg Keep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    Is it just me or is Improved Aid Another ridiculously overpowered? Give an ally +4 to all attack rolls or +4 to AC for 1 round as a swift action? I guess it is still limited to being within your reach... I dunno, still seems like a high bonus that's a bit too easy to grant, especially at will.
    Homebrew


    Other Stuff
    Spoiler
    Show
    Special Thanks: Kymme! You and your awesome avatarist skills have made me a Lore Warden in addition to King of Fighter Fixes!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    This... is quite a significant change. Flurry and Rapid Attack allows you to make a total of six attacks as standard action... yes its a -10 penalty, but there's ways to get around it.
    Flurry requires a full round action and rapid attack uses a standard action. They shouldn't be able to work together unless I worded it wrong.

    I like the one-handed weapon feats as well. Turning Power Attack into a 1d6-2 ratio is cool. Its not as reliable as your normal power attack, but its pretty strong.
    Yeah the general idea was to make sure everyone could get a somewhat decent benefit from power attacking. (Originally bows also got a way to be boosted up to 2d6 per 3 or 1d8 per 2 at different points, but ultimately I decided being able to go with THFing as a Bow meant the ability to get that same sort of PA return. (Same argument goes for einhander or TWFing hand crossbows)

    Is it just me or is Improved Aid Another ridiculously overpowered? Give an ally +4 to all attack rolls or +4 to AC for 1 round as a swift action? I guess it is still limited to being within your reach... I dunno, still seems like a high bonus that's a bit too easy to grant, especially at will.
    Not sure. +2 to an attack roll for a standard action is obviously too small to matter. +4 as a swift action seemed like a quick way to make people start caring about it, though it may be too much particularly at level 1. On the other hand you are spending a feat, and blowing an action each round to make it happen.

    Maybe make it take a move action but let it apply to an ally within 30ft? At that point you're getting more of the Warblade/Warlord yelling at people to make them better fluff than the attacking the enemy to distract and create openings fluff, but it could work. You'd still be able to use it with the 1/round free action maneuver too later on, which is pretty great.




    Just edited the main post based on the above post.

    Quick list of changes made:
    • Modified Einhander a lot. Maneuver bonus only applies to Feint Disarm and Trip. Parry and Riposte now consumes opportunity attacks, and triggers off an opponent missing rather than requiring an opposed roll. Flashy Offensive got combined with Open Hand Master, with the feint section removed.
    • Warder lost the shield other effect.
    • Precise Shot replaces the +1 to hit and scaling damage bonus with dex to damage. [memo to self: In the morning, make it clear that Einhander Ranged Combat does not get dex to damage twice]
    • Missile Mastery loses dex to damage
    • Sniper introduced as new archery feat, for anyone who cares about attacking enemies from a mile away, get all the stuff you want for that in one convenient package.
    • Harrier now reduces ability DCs instead of defenses, and skill check penalty is doubled.
    • Improved Mounted combat clarified, and the reflex save effect was removed.
    • Shield Bash Mastery now has DC based on strength correctly, instead of level.



    Still looking for feedback on:
    -Alternative options for Prime Threat
    -Discussed alternate Improved Aid Another above
    -Maneuver feats in general
    -Anything anyone notices that seems like it's worded unclearly or has weird issues


    To-Do List (tomorrow when it's not 2:30am):
    -Find a way to make sure the dex to damage stuff is mutually exclusive
    -Update the table to reflect the above changes
    Last edited by Seerow; 2014-03-16 at 02:16 AM.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Open Handed specialist [...] Einhander I may have gone a bit overboard on, but since it's such an undersupported style in core, I really wanted to see it have a real function.
    I feel you there. Going the way of the swashbuckler is fine, I suppose. It bothers me, but I really can't think of any alternatives.

    Generally focusing on offense is much more potent than focusing on defense. I wanted to make the more defensively oriented feats and actions worthwhile. I might make some of them use a minimum -2 or -3 fighting defensively penalty (like a lot of current fighting defensively/combat expertise boosts do currently), but the general idea of give up a little offense to provide a meaningful defensive boost is entirely intentional.
    Come to think of it, the inability to power attack is a pretty big deal at later levels. I'm mostly worried about low-level combats, when the average enemy can only hit an armored target on a 16+.

    Are you saying you don't like the dex to damage, or that you feel it would be better at level 1? I could see replacing the point blank shot effect with dex to damage. Missile Mastery may or may not need something to make up for that (Missile Mastery becomes a much more niche feat without it, but still a fairly useful niche feat for those who want to go that route. Bullrushing and Grappling people with arrows is fun).
    Yeah, dex to damage at level 1 is what I'd prefer. I think combat maneuvers are actually quite a big deal with this kind of feat support, so missile mastery will retain its offensive capabilities.

    Intent was that you get the bonus AoOs only while wielding a reach weapon, to give someone focused in those weapons an edge in the AoO game.
    The problem is that it grants you inner reach AND more AoOs, so it's not just mandatory for reach fighters, it's also mandatory for any kind of AoO user. If I want to take AoOs with an axe, I should just use a pointy stick, call it "an axe", and take this feat.

    I think my original reasoning here was that the skill check penalty made casting defensively harder, though thinking about it now, the penalty is pretty low to matter for that use. Going with AB/Save DCs is probably more interesting.
    I was hoping you'd go for that!

    From the top of the post: "Unarmed Combat is considered a simple weapon proficiency, that is now granted to Monks, Swordsages, and all characters who have proficiency in all simple weapons. Having proficiency in unarmed combat means that you do not provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed attack, and you do not take the non-proficiency penalty to attack rolls."
    Whoosh, over my head. That's good by me.

    As far as the damage, you already pointed out it's not broken, and people have accepted monks hitting with higher base damage with their fists than a greatsword at high levels for a while now. Yeah, this pushes the level that happens down some which can raise some eyebrows, but it works. It's already basically a feat tax to fight unarmed, I'd have to have a more solid reason to make it worse.
    I would classify it less as "this is broken", and more as "this is a greatsword thing". It's like the d12 hit die: Most classes could use d12 HP and be fine, but it's one of those iconic tank things and I'm illogically drawn to wanting it as a tank thing. I'm sure 2d6 is fine for damage, but 1d10 is probably OK too, and it feels less like it steps on the fighter's coolness toes.

    That's all pretty opinion-y and full of ramblings. No real need to change it.

    This one's just embarassing. That +level is supposed to be +strength mod, and somehow after writing it I read it a half dozen times without noticing that's what I wrote.
    Gotcha, all good.

    Some form of making yourself a more desirable target is going in [...] [list of options]
    You're right that this isn't really mind control. A penalty for attacking anyone but you is probably OK, and I shouldn't be so bothered by it. But I much prefer challenge effects like the Races of War knight (bonus damage unless they hit you), voluntary lowering of defenses (but that should be baked into a system if it exists at all, and how do you make your armor less effective anyways?), or the redirect. I really like the idea of taking a readied action to get in the way of a projectile or at least provide better than soft cover.

    I'll get to maneuver feats later. I need another open 2-hour period to take them in at once.
    All work I do is CC-BY-SA. Copy it wherever you want as long as you credit me.

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    I think I'll leave the judgment of this to others... they know it better.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempestfury View Post
    I think I'll leave the judgment of this to others... they know it better.
    No need to think that way. All input is helpful.

    I feel you there. Going the way of the swashbuckler is fine, I suppose. It bothers me, but I really can't think of any alternatives.
    Well if you do think of others, let me know. Like I said, I want the style to succeed, but I'd be pretty happy if it could be as useful to a guy wielding a bastard sword or warhammer as a rapier. The trouble is coming up with things that a guy can do while leaving one hand free (or at least not attacking with it) that someone using both hands to attack with can't match.

    Come to think of it, the inability to power attack is a pretty big deal at later levels. I'm mostly worried about low-level combats, when the average enemy can only hit an armored target on a 16+.
    That's honestly a problem with AC in general. (I tend towards thinking the base AC for creatures should be 5, not 10, but AC should scale better with level. It solves a lot of problems at both the low and high extremes)

    Yeah, dex to damage at level 1 is what I'd prefer. I think combat maneuvers are actually quite a big deal with this kind of feat support, so missile mastery will retain its offensive capabilities.
    Already updated to this.

    The problem is that it grants you inner reach AND more AoOs, so it's not just mandatory for reach fighters, it's also mandatory for any kind of AoO user. If I want to take AoOs with an axe, I should just use a pointy stick, call it "an axe", and take this feat.
    What if I made the bonus AoOs from BAB a synergy bonus from also having combat reflexes?

    You're right that this isn't really mind control. A penalty for attacking anyone but you is probably OK, and I shouldn't be so bothered by it. But I much prefer challenge effects like the Races of War knight (bonus damage unless they hit you), voluntary lowering of defenses (but that should be baked into a system if it exists at all, and how do you make your armor less effective anyways?), or the redirect. I really like the idea of taking a readied action to get in the way of a projectile or at least provide better than soft cover.
    Making AC less effective shouldn't be too hard. It's generally assumed that AC includes some degree of actively avoiding attacks, dodging, parrying, blocking, etc. Fighting defensively puts more focus on this, but you can see that it's assumed even without that by the way status affect your AC. Being blind reduces AC by 2. Cowering reduces AC by 2. Entangled reduces dexterity by 4, which reduces AC by 2. Exhausted reduces dexterity by 6, which reduces AC by 3. Fatigue reduces dexterity by 2, reducing AC by 1. Helpless and Paralyzed reduces your dexterity to 0 (a big penalty that will vary depending on how high your AC normally is).

    Seems pretty clear to me that dex mod isn't the only thing boosting your AC, it just makes you better at your general avoidance. So leaving yourself open and voluntarily lowering your AC is easily possible. What is harder is giving the appearance of having lower AC, without actually doing so (because if you're actually lowering your defenses that much, all you accomplish by getting them to attack you is to make the party take more total damage and martyr yourself).

    The "Deal more damage to people who ignore me" route is good, but depends on the enemy knowing that the extra damage being dealt is due to ignoring the heavily armored guy (otherwise, that guy in cloth is still also a threat, and most likely easier to take out. An intelligent enemy will focus on the easier target first unless he knows by focusing on the harder target it removes that one as a major threat automatically). And if the enemy automatically knowing that when you target them is okay, I'm not sure I see why a debuff would be unnacceptable either.

    Then again, I could see there being room for both versions existing, even side-by-side (for someone who REALLY wants to screw anyone not attacking him). I'm not sure if that would help with your complaint at all though.

    I'll get to maneuver feats later. I need another open 2-hour period to take them in at once.
    All right, looking forward to it.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Just to Browse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    The only threads I want to continue:

    Einhander: What if it was more mobility? Like bonus 5' steps? Just a thought.

    Reach and AoO: I'd really rather see AoO's and reach weapons divorced. I don't know what you could put in to replace the bonus AoOs, but I think reach and AoO's shouldn't be so inherently connected. I would enjoy a +1/4 BAB to Combat Reflexes, though.

    Tanking Alternatives: Something like a "knight's challenge" would be nice. Where you announce to the monster you're challenging it, and challenges are so ubiquitous that the monster understands your intent (dealing with vermin, oozes, and forehead aliens would still be a problem. Perhaps it could be readying a super attack?).

    The other idea I thought of was a knockoff of the Reckless Assault feat. I think it lets you make attacks at +2 AB in exchange for -2 AC. If you perhaps had something like +4/-4, and just had enemies recognize different combat maneuvers, that could work.

    Also, can someone combine power attack with combat expertise?
    All work I do is CC-BY-SA. Copy it wherever you want as long as you credit me.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats) [D&D 3.5]

    Einhander: What if it was more mobility? Like bonus 5' steps? Just a thought.
    I considered that, but Evasive Reflexes already does this really well, and works with other styles (usually for reach builds, but any melee can use it and I've seen archery/scout builds designed to take advantage of it and the result is pretty cool). Also it's harder to imagine while not holding something in one hand is going to give you the ability to move more.

    Reach and AoO: I'd really rather see AoO's and reach weapons divorced. I don't know what you could put in to replace the bonus AoOs, but I think reach and AoO's shouldn't be so inherently connected. I would enjoy a +1/4 BAB to Combat Reflexes, though.
    Honestly Reach Weapons and aoe control go hand in hand. And to me, that really means lots of AoOs. I can't imagine someone focusing on using a reach weapon and not picking up combat reflexes, can you?

    Tanking Alternatives: Something like a "knight's challenge" would be nice. Where you announce to the monster you're challenging it, and challenges are so ubiquitous that the monster understands your intent (dealing with vermin, oozes, and forehead aliens would still be a problem. Perhaps it could be readying a super attack?).
    It could just be something about the body language and stance that makes it obvious even to an untrained observer. That would cover just about anything with a couple points of intelligence, and things without that have a tendency to attack whatever's closest to them regardless.

    The other idea I thought of was a knockoff of the Reckless Assault feat. I think it lets you make attacks at +2 AB in exchange for -2 AC. If you perhaps had something like +4/-4, and just had enemies recognize different combat maneuvers, that could work.
    Eh, I'm not sure I like it. I mean, for a tanking feat, you want to keep your defense while convincing enemies to attack you. When I mentioning feigning an opening, I meant something like enemies suddenly think you're flatfooted, or at minus AC, or whatever, so move to take advantage and get hit. But this requires either the GM to be really good at avoiding metagaming, or for the ability to basically become mind control.

    Actually giving up defense for offense accomplishes the goal of making you a bigger threat while making you a more appealing target, but fails to let you be a tank, because the reason you are an appealing target is because you just weakened yourself to the point where the enemy will hurt you as much as or more than the ally they were going to attack instead.

    I dunno, this is really an area I just need to think on some more and figure out where to go with it.

    Also, can someone combine power attack with combat expertise?
    I don't see anything in the rules for either indicating they can't be used together, and that's not something I specifically changed, so as far as I can tell it can work. Though I could add in something along the lines of "Power Attack and Fighting Defensively can be used up to a total of your BAB" so that fighting defensively for 3 to get your big defensive benefits reduces your max power attack by that same 3 points.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2013

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats)

    Does using a shield disqualify you from using the Einhander chain, or does it not count as another weapon for the purposes of those feats?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by Werephilosopher View Post
    Does using a shield disqualify you from using the Einhander chain, or does it not count as another weapon for the purposes of those feats?
    They do work together for the most part. The wording in the Einhander feats is specific to restrict you to attacking with a one-handed weapon held in one hand, not from holding anything in your offhand (However if you tried to use the shield as an offhand weapon to shield bash, then Einhander does not provide benefit). This was deliberate, to allow for using Einhander+shield or Einhander+parrying dagger, or whatever, both of which are actually more common than straight Einhander.

    The exception to this is Open Handed Mastery's special clause:

    Special: If your offhand is left empty (in addition to simply not being used to attack), your bonuses from Einhander are increased to +4, and your AC bonus from Einhander is doubled when fighting defensively with at least a -3 penalty to hit.
    Which specifies leaving the hand empty. So someone going all in with Einhander gains the additional +2 to hit and AC, and if you fight defensively the AC bonus goes up to +8.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Qwertystop's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats)

    Can't really comment on the balance, but there's a typo in Combat Panache: it's spelled "flair," assuming the character is being showy and not strapping sparkers to their weaponry.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fighting with [Style] (Revamped + New Feats)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Can't really comment on the balance, but there's a typo in Combat Panache: it's spelled "flair," assuming the character is being showy and not strapping sparkers to their weaponry.
    Are you saying that you don't strap fireworks to your weapons when showing off?
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •