Ars Magica 5 - Coilgun!

[John_Mandrake]

So, I am about to be playing my first game of Ars Magica Fifth Edition, although the GM has changed the date to 1889.
I am playing as a Veriditius mage specializing in Auram spells, and I have some cool ideas for items to make. One of these is a magically powered coilgun, or gauss gun so that I can bypass magic resistance. However, the first gauss gun was not invented until 1934, 45 years later. Electromagnets were around from 1824, though, so how can I justify learning to make a coilgun?

[BWR]

A wizard did it?
I'd say RL timelines are screwed anyway once you have magic in the picutre.

[Andrewmoreton]

So, I am about to be playing my first game of Ars Magica Fifth Edition, although the GM has changed the date to 1889.
I am playing as a Veriditius mage specializing in Auram spells, and I have some cool ideas for items to make. One of these is a magically powered coilgun, or gauss gun so that I can bypass magic resistance. However, the first gauss gun was not invented until 1934, 45 years later. Electromagnets were around from 1824, though, so how can I justify learning to make a coilgun?

First check how your GM thinks Science works. In classic Ars Magica Aristolean physics is in effect , so magnetism etc does not exist (along with Gravity, Astronomy etc) this means in 1889 you are in a very variant world and need to know how magic interacts with such basic things as Chemistry , steam engines etc as the rules do not cover any of that. Also Electricity persuaive arguments make it Terram or Auram. Lightning (which is not electricity is Auram) most 'modern' applications of Elctricity and magnetism would be Terram.

Second. Assuming core Ars Magica rules what ever you call your item you are creating a ReTe magic item, it will be an indirect spell so the thrown object has its own momentum(however again we are talking aristolean phyics so its not really momentum as Newton would understand it) as a result the speed of the object has very little effect on the damage the projectile deals. That is a matter of Size, however I will assume that in this world speed makes a difference to the higher the magnitude of the ReTe effect would determine the damage. As a verditius you can get all sorts of bonus for magic item crafting so that should help

Really you are off the deep end of the rules on day one of this saga and need the GM's house rules on how aristolean magic and Newtonian science interact. Literally every aspect of how Hermetic magic interacts with the world contradicts the teaching of 19th and 20th century science

You could try the Atlas games forums someone there may have better ideas than me, their grasp of the rules is often more imaginative than mine

[John_Mandrake]

First check how your GM thinks Science works. In classic Ars Magica Aristolean physics is in effect , so magnetism etc does not exist (along with Gravity, Astronomy etc) this means in 1889 you are in a very variant world and need to know how magic interacts with such basic things as Chemistry , steam engines etc as the rules do not cover any of that. Also Electricity persuaive arguments make it Terram or Auram. Lightning (which is not electricity is Auram) most 'modern' applications of Elctricity and magnetism would be Terram.

Second. Assuming core Ars Magica rules what ever you call your item you are creating a ReTe magic item, it will be an indirect spell so the thrown object has its own momentum(however again we are talking aristolean phyics so its not really momentum as Newton would understand it) as a result the speed of the object has very little effect on the damage the projectile deals. That is a matter of Size, however I will assume that in this world speed makes a difference to the higher the magnitude of the ReTe effect would determine the damage. As a verditius you can get all sorts of bonus for magic item crafting so that should help

Really you are off the deep end of the rules on day one of this saga and need the GM's house rules on how aristolean magic and Newtonian science interact. Literally every aspect of how Hermetic magic interacts with the world contradicts the teaching of 19th and 20th century science

You could try the Atlas games forums someone there may have better ideas than me, their grasp of the rules is often more imaginative than mine

Thanks for the advice!
That Aristotlean mechanics thing might be an issue, but my GM will probably agree to using more scientifically correct physics.
I'm not sure I understand how electricity is Terram though - could you explain that?
Thank you again!

[BWR]

I'm not sure I understand how electricity is Terram though - could you explain that?

Because you are launching a metal sliver, which falls under Terram. You'd need a CreoAuram item to produce electricity.
I started an update of AM using pseudo-real world physics - no Auram or Terram, but with the four fundemental forces, etc. Now I want to go back and work on it some more.

Edit: read the post more carefully: I assume he put magnetism under Terram because of magnets being solid objects usually metal.

[Andrewmoreton]

Thanks for the advice!
That Aristotlean mechanics thing might be an issue, but my GM will probably agree to using more scientifically correct physics.
I'm not sure I understand how electricity is Terram though - could you explain that?
Thank you again!

Using 'Real' Science involves potentially IMHO a lot of changes to the magic system which is why I have never done it.

Why do you think Electricity is Auram? Because of Lightning , the art of Auram contains lightning because lightning is part of weather, the concept of Electricity is entirely absent from Aristolean physics as it was not really conceived of until the 18th century.
Most Electrical activity occures inside solid objects (Terram) so to make a computer do what you want it to do is ReTe. Other effects of electromagnetism include making metal objects move which again is ReTe so given that most electrical activity happens within metal objects Terram is a logical art to control it. What does control of the Wind and Weather have to do with these electron thingies!
(Computers could also be Mentam but really only if they have spirits)

Once you start thinking about it there are a lot of features of real chemistry and physics which can be abused (just look at Red Cloaks Elementals

. With modern physics CrTe 20 (+1 diamater duration, +1 touch, +1 unnusual properties of a base metal, base lvl 5) creates a cubic foot of Uranium........
If you argue uranium as a noble metal you probably need CrTe35 to get you kiloton yield nuclear bomb

[John_Mandrake]

Because you are launching a metal sliver, which falls under Terram.

So what would an electromagnet be? I think it's probably Auram, because I am charging the electromagnet with a spell rather than creating a permanent magnet.

I started an update of AM using pseudo-real world physics - no Auram or Terram, but with the four fundemental forces, etc.

Good luck! That sounds quite cool.

Why do you think Electricity is Auram? Because of Lightning , the art of Auram contains lightning because lightning is part of weather, the concept of Electricity is entirely absent from Aristolean physics as it was not really conceived of until the 18th century.
Most Electrical activity occures inside solid objects (Terram) so to make a computer do what you want it to do is ReTe. Other effects of electromagnetism include making metal objects move which again is ReTe so given that most electrical activity happens within metal objects Terram is a logical art to control it. What does control of the Wind and Weather have to do with these electron thingies!

That makes sense. I'll be sure not to neglect my Terram abilities.

If you argue uranium as a noble metal you probably need CrTe35 to get you kiloton yield nuclear bomb.

Bwahahaha, maybe I'll change history and have the Manhattan Project powered by magic...

Thanks for the input!

[Andrewmoreton]

Because you are launching a metal sliver, which falls under Terram. You'd need a CreoAuram item to produce electricity.
I started an update of AM using pseudo-real world physics - no Auram or Terram, but with the four fundemental forces, etc. Now I want to go back and work on it some more.

Edit: read the post more carefully: I assume he put magnetism under Terram because of magnets being solid objects usually metal.

I don't necessarily disagree that electricity is not Auram , I just think it is arguable due to the paradigm shift. You idea of changing the magic system to the fundamental forces is interesting but complicated which is why I limit my Ars Magica to Pre Newton and pretty much Pre-Galileo before the age of enlightenment as it is a lot of work, there are enough loopholes in the current Ars magica system and that has had a lot of revisions (I still love it as a system)

[Tyrrell]

There is a spell, Invisible Sling of Vilano from HoH Societates, that does exactly what you describe, it chucks a projectile at someone and it is an aimed spell that only launches the projectile, the magic is gone before it hits the target so magic resistance is not triggered.

[Andrewmoreton]

There is a spell, Invisible Sling of Vilano from HoH Societates, that does exactly what you describe, it chucks a projectile at someone and it is an aimed spell that only launches the projectile, the magic is gone before it hits the target so magic resistance is not triggered.

That's what I was thinking off. The only problem I see is that it is low level and does relatively little damage and IIRC the way to increase damage to is throw a bigger rock. Where as the modern assumption for coil guns etc calls for higher velocity rounds doing more damage but a gm could house rule that a higher level does more damage with the same size projectile

[Tyrrell]

Where as the modern assumption for coil guns etc calls for higher velocity rounds doing more damage but a gm could house rule that a higher level does more damage with the same size projectile

That seems entirely reasonable to me. Of course I'm not your GM.