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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground

    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy the Dark Vengeance starter box.

    What's Dark Vengeance?
    Dark Vengeance contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    It contains roughly 850 Points worth of Dark Angels. However, it only contains around 500 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Of course, if you're playing DV as it's meant to be played, you're never using all of the models at once so the points difference doesn't really matter.

    However, in practical terms, the Dark Angels are only barely legal and lack enough Scoring models. And, while the CSMs are legal, they're almost 300 points behind and lack anything that packs a decent punch. You will also need the relevant Codecies for your faction as it will dramatically change the way you play the game as opposed to using the reference sheets that come with DV.

    How much does it cost?
    The Dark Vengeance box, one Codex, one other box of your choosing, and a Starter Paint Set costs you about the same as a Playstation 3 and one game*. In both cases, you'd be good to go for about a month. This author thinks of most boxes as console games, and Flyers and Land Raiders are the AAA-Title Collector's Edition game. The difference being that in this hobby you can use all your 'games' at the same time, and continuously.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    *Priced in $AU where everything is more expensive - although the ratios should be the same.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army.
    Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    There are ways that you can play 200, 400 and 500 point games using altered rules. But, if you want to play the game as-is, the recommended minimum is 750.

    The game 'balances out' at 1500. Most games should be played at this level since pretty much all armies get a fair shake.

    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1250 with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Up to 12 pieces is the official word. However, that can get crowded pretty fast if you've got big pieces.

    A better guide is roughly anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board.

    I don't like using Special Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Special Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Special Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Special Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    This guide is very rough. But should provide you with at least a starting direction.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Which army is the best?
    That's a loaded question. It depends what points limit you're playing at (at 1500 there really isn't one). But, there is no 'best' army. Plasma beats Terminators beats Mech beats Plasma. 40K is much like Rock, Paper, Scissors. None of the armies are 'best', as each army can be countered. Some armies are better than others, but there is no 'best'.

    However, as you play the game you will notice that your Codex doesn't have the units that beat another Codex. That's not to say that you haven't won any games, and it's not to say that your opponents' armies haven't lost several games to armies that just aren't yours. It just means that your army can't beat your opponent's army with what you've got available to you. That's why Allies need to be in the game.

    Wait, so there are bad Codecies?
    Yes. But, every Codex should be usable between 1000-1500 points. So, no matter what army you pick, you'll be okay within those points limits, or, you should be. If you find that your Codex/Army isn't doing well against certain opponents, and there's nothing you can do; You may need Allies.

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    Old Guides from 6th Edition
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    Guide to Apocalypse Units
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    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-06-30 at 05:44 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    So, only one Ally combo has come out of Astra, and it's the same as the old one, with the new favourite.

    Azrael gives the Blob a 4++. In close combat, the Priest allows his unit to re-roll Invulnerables. That's about it.

    Vendettas being more expensive means that they're less likely to show up in Allied Detachments.
    1-3 ML2 Divination Psykers is pretty cool, especially for Sisters who have nothing. Or you can roll on Telekinesis and hope one of them gets Gate - roll for Psychic Powers before Deployment, remember?

    Also, has anyone been defying the internet and doing really well with Tyranids? Specifically, I'm looking for people who have been doing well in 1000-1500 marks. I've been noticing that people with huge swarms dominate low point games, and I notice that lists with 6+ MCs are smashing the crap out of people. But, in the middle ground, where opponents actually get to have toys, and Tyranids don't get to have as many toys as they want, things kind of just...Blergh.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Are 'Dettas still 10 man transports, of did the rumored nerf hit them?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Are 'Dettas still 10 man transports, of did the rumored nerf hit them?
    They were nerfed. 6 models now.

    Also it is now possible to get 15 Leman russes into the list if you don't mind missing orders and want complete Armoured Power. I hear this is not actually that useful.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    sounds like my allies are shifting to laser/missile valkeries, then.

    Does anything in the codex get Valkeries as dedicated transports?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    They were nerfed. 6 models now.
    You can still put Commands or Special Weapons Squads inside, which is what people were doing anyway.

    Also it is now possible to get 15 Leman russes into the list if you don't mind missing orders and want complete Armoured Power.
    Just checking to see if you're right (you are), but then I found this gem;
    "...count as an HQ choice for the entire of the battle."
    Yay, editing!

    Two Tank Commanders are 60 Points
    Leman Russes average out to 145 Points each (depending on which ones you want in which combination).
    Comes to 2235 Points, without Troops.
    15 Eradicators make the list 1860, without Troops.

    So, you can. But, like the Blood Angel army with 9 Dreadnoughts or 17 Land Raiders (BA/BT makes it an even 20), you can do it, but it's unusable.

    Also, a Commander Squadron is worse because in Big Guns, Leman Russes can Score, except they wont when put in the HQ slot.
    You're better off taking a single Tank Commander by himself, and another two Leman Russes straight from Heavy Support, and then for some reason they 'just so happen' to be in coherency, like what Sanguinor does when he doesn't want to get shot at. The Tank Orders aren't that good anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Does anything in the codex get Valkeries as dedicated transports?
    Nope. You're going to need Forge World for that. IA8, if I'm remembering correctly. Although with Fliers being in Reserve, I think the list is unusable in 6th only usable as Allies. I'll have to check.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-04-13 at 12:20 AM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Yeah, but Russes in the HQ slot (with orders! And BS4!) have an argument for being more useful than in Heavy, especially given competition from Wyverns (seriously, I want one; that's a scary amount of firepower for a platform that cheap) and Manticores, and even more so because of the parenthetical.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    sounds like my allies are shifting to laser/missile valkeries, then.

    Does anything in the codex get Valkeries as dedicated transports?
    Strictly speaking? No.
    BUT: You can take the Airborne Assault Formation from the Militarum Tempestus Codex which doesn't count as your Allied detachment. 4 Valks, full stormtrooper Platoon loaded up in them, and a Commissar attached to one of the squads. Bare bones comes in at 82 melta guns.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Tank Commanders only have 3 orders that only affect their unit. so if you want the orders for the other units then no such luck. they do however get to split their fire to target 2 units, which normal Russes can't. So its still good to get a command squad in a transport.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    Tank Commanders only have 3 orders that only affect their unit. so if you want the orders for the other units then no such luck. they do however get to split their fire to target 2 units, which normal Russes can't. So its still good to get a command squad in a transport.
    I'm aware of the fact. But I'll pay the points to make a squadron of Russes better at their job any day of the week.

    So here's a question. Yarrick has the Chain of Command rule, which states that he can't be Warlord unless there's no model with the Senior Officer rule in the primary detachment, but he himself has the Senior Officer rule and higher Ld than company commanders. What the what?
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2014-04-13 at 12:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    You're better off taking a single Tank Commander by himself, and another two Leman Russes straight from Heavy Support, and then for some reason they 'just so happen' to be in coherency, like what Sanguinor does when he doesn't want to get shot at. The Tank Orders aren't that good anyway.
    Except the Tank Commander requires you to take at LEAST a second Leman Russ to be in his squadron... so with the cheapest tanks, it's a 27 meltagun investment.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I'm aware of the fact. But I'll pay the points to make a squadron of Russes better at their job any day of the week.

    So here's a question. Yarrick has the Chain of Command rule, which states that he can't be Warlord unless there's no model with the Senior Officer rule in the primary detachment, but he himself has the Senior Officer rule and higher Ld than company commanders. What the what?
    I'l agree it's pretty pointless for him to have the CoC rule, but at least he fits the criteria for him to be Warlord... *shrug* not the worst rule to be added in... Unlike Executioner cannons suddenly "Getting hot" .

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    So here's a question. Yarrick has the Chain of Command rule, which states that he can't be Warlord unless there's no model with the Senior Officer rule in the primary detachment, but he himself has the Senior Officer rule and higher Ld than company commanders. What the what?
    Yarrick is always your Warlord, unless he isn't. Only Creed himself can tell Yarrick what to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caimheul View Post
    Except the Tank Commander requires you to take at LEAST a second Leman Russ to be in his squadron.
    No it doesn't. It just doesn't make much sense if you don't. Basically, the only reason the Tank Commander is there is because you want a Tank as your Warlord.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-04-13 at 12:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    No it doesn't. It just doesn't make much sense if you don't. Basically, the only reason the Tank Commander is there is because you want a Tank as your Warlord.
    Yeah, it actually does. Read the army list entry.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Yeah, it actually does. Read the army list entry.
    That'll teach me for reading the unit entry in the fluff section.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Yarrick is always your Warlord, unless he isn't. Only Creed himself can tell Yarrick what to do.



    No it doesn't. It just doesn't make much sense if you don't. Basically, the only reason the Tank Commander is there is because you want a Tank as your Warlord.
    From the book, second "option" under Tank Commander in the back part of the book: "The Tank Commander's squadron must include 1-2 other Leman Russ tanks chosen from those listed on page 102."
    Edit:
    Ninja'd!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Are the warlord traits any good? What warlord traits does Creed, Yarrik, or Straken get?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Are the warlord traits any good? What warlord traits does Creed, Yarrik, or Straken get?
    Creed rolls twice on any Warlord table and gets both, can roll on different tables.
    Yarrick makes units immune to taking Morale checks from 25% casualties in a single phase (basically Fearless in the Shooting phase).
    Straken makes his unit Relentless (also Straken is Fearless and Monster Hunter).
    Pask has Preferred Enemy vs. any one Codex, chosen during Deployment, not list creation. Which is kind of great to pass onto other Leman Russes in his unit*.

    *Basically, Pask is the only Tank Commander worth having.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-04-13 at 12:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Are the warlord traits any good? What warlord traits does Creed, Yarrik, or Straken get?
    1. d3 units in primary detachment get outflank
    2. Pick a Codex during deployment before scout/infiltrate, Warlord and Unit have Preferred Enemy against all enemy units from that codex
    3. Units from this codex in 12" of warlord do not take morae tests for 25% casualties (Yarrick)
    4. Warlord and Unit have Relentless (Straken)
    5. Warlord gets Voice of Command. If already has VoC, can issue orders to units from this codex witin 18"
    6. Warlord gets Voice of Command. If already has VoC, can issue one additional order each turn.

    Creed gets 2 Warlord Traits instead of 1 (can be from different tables)

    Edit: Some interesting ones, but overall I'm kinda meh. Probably going to stick with my Div Inquisitor as warlord.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    They took Stealth, Move Through Cover, Feel No Pain, and Infiltrate away from Harker. His points cost remains unchanged.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    They took Stealth, Move Through Cover, Feel No Pain, and Infiltrate away from Harker. His points cost remains unchanged.
    And Chimera's went up 1 meltagun in points, lost 3 fire points at the "gain" of shooting three flashlights out each side at BS3 so long as there are models inside to shoot them, potentially at different targets than the other guns. At least Vets went down in price by the same amount, so mounted vets still cost the same bare bones. No point really on buying the third special weapon now either, so saved a few more points.

    Edit: Although I guess one could add a heavy flamer as the third weapon purely for overwatch...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Measuring things, especially vehicles, in meltaguns isn't a particularly useful metric, both because meltaguns aren't the be-all, end-all of weaponry in the game (especially if everyone trades in their vehicles for meltaguns) and because the number of meltaguns you can have is rather more severely limited by the number of special weapon slots in the army than by points to buy them with.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    It's a means of indicating point value to people with access to a book with the price for meltas listed, without posting actual point values, something GW tends to frown upon. Didn't mean to imply based on the melta's usefulness, as I too believe apples should be compared to apples.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Caimheul View Post
    It's a means of indicating point value to people with access to a book with the price for meltas listed
    Which is pointless, because anyone who has the Codex to know what the point listing is, can clearly see what the actual points value is.

    '1 Thunderfire Cannon' is really only used as a measurement for rumours and stuff that hasn't actually been released yet. Once stuff is actually released, hiding things in code is pretty much pointless.

    EDIT: I had a look through IA8, Elysian Drop Troops with the Valkyries as Dedicated Transports. It's terribly underpowered right now because of the massive changes to Astra Militarum. Everything in the Elysian Drop Troop army list is over-costed and terrible. Besides, you don't need Valkyries to be Dedicated to put stuff in them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    They took Stealth, Move Through Cover, Feel No Pain, and Infiltrate away from Harker. His points cost remains unchanged.
    His heavy bolted did gain the Rending rule though.

    Has there been a pattern of nerfing everything that was exceptionally good (to the point of being overpowered)? And would Harker's Catachan Devils squad qualify?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    True, but sometimes people are away from their books but remember that a meltagun hasn't changed in points from the last version of the IG codex and is the same cost in I think all the different Imperial Codexes. It's a habit I picked up from other forums. And individual point value listings ALWAYS earn the ire of GW, released or not released. That's why so many fan forum's will moderate posts with point values in them.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Has there been a pattern of nerfing everything that was exceptionally good (to the point of being overpowered)?
    I guess the biggest nerf that I can think of is Tyranids not having access to Biomancy.
    Everything is kind of a 'totally justifiable points increase' like Tervigons and Vendettas. So I'm not certain that that counts as a 'nerf'.
    I'm trying to think of anything in the Chaos Codex that got worse, and I can't really think of anything being forced to Challenge with every character you own sucks. Other than that, everything in the Chaos Codex is 'bad' by the virtue of Cultists and Heldrakes being so good. inb4; Thousand Sons and Dreadnoughts Helbrutes were always bad.
    Dark Angels are kind of crap, but, they always have been.

    Oh. Oh. Daemons losing their Eternal Warrior. That's a huge nerf, especially in a Codex that has a lot of T4 multi-wounds with no saves (5++ doesn't count). However, that being said, in a Codex that does have a lot of T4- multi-wounds, giving them all Eternal Warrior is kind of overpowered.

    Straight up removal of certain units; Doom, Marbo and Medusas though, does that count as a 'nerf'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caimheul View Post
    And individual point value listings ALWAYS earn the ire of GW, released or not released.
    Not really. What they don't want you to do is say

    Super Chicken (50)
    Feathers of flight (20), Cluck of Doom(35), Beak of Piercing (10)

    And replicate the Codex wholesale.

    However, saying that a Dozer Blade is 5 Points is totally fine. Unless what you're talking about hasn't been released yet. However, in my Crimson Slaughter write-up, I did do this, and I compared things to a Sigil of Corruption's points cost, because, did you know that instead of this terrible Relic, you could take a Sigil of Corruption instead? Because I'm making a direct comparison. Comparing things to Meltaguns isn't helpful. Either it's pointless because the people you're talking to either know what you're talking about anyway, or, comparing Meltaguns to Dozer Blades doesn't work.

    If nobody was allowed to mention points costs at all, whole sections of the 40K community would be shut down. That's not the case.


    EDIT: So...No-one plays Tyranids? Or nobody has any success with them? Or both? Or did my question get lost?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-04-13 at 02:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    I guess the biggest nerf that I can think of is Tyranids not having access to Biomancy.
    Everything is kind of a 'totally justifiable points increase' like Tervigons and Vendettas. So I'm not certain that that counts as a 'nerf'.
    That's pretty much how I'm using the term - for all changes of power downward - not just ones that make something nonviable.

    From my perspective, Vendettas have been "nerfed from overpowered to moderately strong".

    "Unit removed" I probably wouldn't include, since we can't compare "Old Unit" to "No Unit At All".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    However, in my Crimson Slaughter write-up, I did do this, and I compared things to a Sigil of Corruption's points cost, because, did you know that instead of this terrible Relic, you could take a Sigil of Corruption instead?
    You mean this bit?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Relics of the Crimson Slaughter

    Balestar of Mannon: Sorcerer only. For the price of a Sigil of Corruption, gain a Spell Familiar. And you can roll on the Divination table. The downside? The Sorcerer loses any bonuses to Deny the Witch that he would normally have. Who cares? For 10 Points I have ML3 Divination now. Unfortunately, it is a Relic and you can therefore only have one.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2014-04-13 at 02:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    From my perspective, Vendettas have been "nerfed from overpowered to moderately strong".
    That's one way to look at it.

    You mean this bit?
    Okay, I meant the Black Legion stuff. Which I wrote at the same time that I did Crimson Slaughter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Spineshiver Blade: For double the points of a Mark of Slaanesh, you get a Power Sword, Daemon Weapon that also gives you the effect of a Mark of Slaanesh.

    Crucible of Lies: For its points cost, and the cost of -1 Toughness, you get to have the ability of a Chaos Daemons Daemon of Tzeentch. You're paying the cost of a Sigil of Corruption

    Last Memory of the Yuranthos: Psyker only. For the cost of the Burning Brand

    The Eye of Night: For three times the cost of a Sigil of Corruption (yes, really, that many points)
    Spineshiver Blade is asking you to ignore the Mark of Slaanesh and Power Sword combo, and look what you get for the exact same points.
    Crucible is so bad. Re-roll 33% of your Invulnerables in addition to the price of having an Invulnerable in the first place.
    Super Sunburst is effectively replacing the Burning Brand, so, I felt the comparison apt.
    Eye of Night is just awful.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-04-13 at 03:06 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Eye of Night is just awful.
    That said:
    Vehicles hit by the Eye take D3 Penetrating Hits! (!!!!). That's auto-stripping Hull Points and doing damage. The only downside is its enormous points cost.
    On Vendettas:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    That's one way to look at it.
    How would you rate Vendettas at the moment?

    Regarding Interceptor - there's one IG unit (Forgeworld only) that has it - the Sabre platform.

    Would you say that's probably the best way for IG to get it - or are Allies or Defences (Icarus?) better?
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2014-04-13 at 03:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    How would you rate Vendettas at the moment?
    Same as I rate Heldrakes or Sternguard. Really good. But you're paying for it.

    Would you say that's probably the best way for IG to get [Interceptor]?
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