A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    I was looking forward to buying Final Fantasy VII on steam because it was supposed to be updated to run on modern hardware with better graphics. To see what all they did and get a feel for the game, I read the reviews and found this one:

    "DO NOT BUY, AVOID!! Here is why: (besides that the music is terrible midi version and not the good ps1 version)

    It is a 15 year old SINGLE PLAYER GAME. SQUARE have decided to finally put their prized games on steam...so why is that? why now? Unfortunately they've gone down a dark and corrupt road...even as low as stealing...yes, i used the word stealing, because that's what this is.

    You need to register your personal information, which is required to be able to login to their online client, so that you can play this single player game. DRM...oh but it goes a lot deeper than that.

    The terms and conditions of this unnecessary online integration, is THEY ARE SELLING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION TO THIRD PARTIES AND OTHER COMPANIES. In this aspect the game shouldn't cost you anything as they're already making the money off of your private information which they have no right to deny you access to the game after pre-taking your money.

    But oh it gets worse...it also repeatedly installs a tracking cookie into your all your browsers in order to spy on your activity. Yes...spyware.

    It gets even worse!

    Q: "But wait....if you buy it on Steam, does that mean i automatically agree to the terms?"
    NO because you haven't even seen or even knew about these terms and conditions, nor accepted them. They have taken your money ILLEGALLY first, and given you the agreement later.

    Q: "I bought it, but didn't agree to these ridiculous terms...can i get my money back because i was mislead and missold this item?"
    Legally you are entitled to a refund because you were, mislead, and tricked into buying something that had dangerous conditions given to you AFTER the sale, which is illegal.
    But to answer your question,
    NO, YOU JUST GOT ILLEGALLY ROBBED, SCREW YOU GIMME MONEY. YOU WANT YOUR MONEY BACK? YOU CANT HAVE IT BACK, AND NOBODY IN THE WORLD IS GOING TO HELP YOU GET IT BACK. You just got robbed, illegally, and no authority on the internet has the balls to challenge this because "Big company" gets complete **** immunity from the law.

    Square has gone so down deep in greed and corruption, that they are taking your money, and NOT giving you your game until you accept their spyware and contractual agreement to sell your private information....and NOT giving you the money back if you do not agree to do so.

    IV BEEN ROBBED, and have been refused my money back...having NOT been given the product i paid for.

    Its criminal...anyone one of us would be arrested and either fined or given a small jail sentence, yet these guys are getting away with it like theyre above the law."
    It almost makes you sympathetic to those that pirate these kinds of things. What do you think about this?

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    I have it on steam, so:

    - Yes, Steam has some kind of personal information about you.
    - No, this information does not need to be true.
    - To the best of my knowledge, Steam does not share this information with 3rd parties.
    - Squeenix does not have your Information, except what Steam gives them.
    - You don't need another client apart from Steam*.
    - If you applied to Steams Terms and Conditions, well, tough luck. That's the price for using Steam. No other Terms and Conditions apply, as far as I know.

    If you don't have Steam yet, don't get it just because of this game. Get the game from eBay or something, and apply the neccessary patches from hand. It's not that hard.
    If you already have Steam, you won't have any problems.

    *At least that was the case when I bought it. I'll check once I return home.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    That said, I've been really irked by how SE's Android ports require intermittent internet connection. It winds up being quite disruptive to my ability to play.
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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    That said, I've been really irked by how SE's Android ports require intermittent internet connection. It winds up being quite disruptive to my ability to play.
    That's terrible.
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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    This all ignores the real problem with the Steam FFVII port. One that, had I known about it, would have instantly dissuaded me from buying it. One that, having bought it, makes me regret that decision every time I see it in my Steam library.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by danzibr View Post
    That's terrible.
    Yep. I found out about it just as I was about to get Chrono Trigger. But some of the reviews mentioned it. It doesn't download the entire world, apparently, when you install the game. There's points at which it needs to connect to the internet to download the next chunk.

    From what I can tell, it's the same with all of their ports.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    THEY ARE SELLING YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION TO THIRD PARTIES AND OTHER COMPANIES
    So are Google, Amazon, Facebook, etc. While there's something to be said against that (goes into politics), it's not like this is some new level of corruption that Square is just now sinking to. Everybody else has been doing this for a looooong time. Hell, it even sounds like their "unnecessary online integration" is just the Steam platform in the first place, so this looks like a lot of outrage over nothing new.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    A tracking cookie is not spyware--it only stores information about what pages you've visited on the website that planted the cookie; it does not and can not store any information about other sites you visit. If that's the quality of this guy's information then I wouldn't pay much attention to what he says.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Just checked: Start Steam, start FF7, BAM. No further sign in required, no more data than I already gave Valve needed. So that one claim is patently false, if I understand it correctly.
    If the guy you (OP) are quoting meant that Squeenix sells your info after gathering it ON TOP of Steam, that is.

    One thing that wasn't there, though, is a launcher that lets you adjust settings outside of the game. That one also has an "Online Profile" button, but as long as you have "Cloud Saving" off, you can't access that. So I guess as long as you don't enable the online component, you're golden.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    The thing that everyone is missing is that you purchase the game and agree to steams EULA, then after you purchase it before installing you have to agree to the SquareEnix EULA which specifically says they are going to sell your personal info to 3rd parties. Then they require you to create a squenix account and possibly connect your facebook account to it (which is allowed to look you up and gather all public info on you even outside of what you post to facebook, and if you use the android app, it can turn on your camera and mic and monitor you as well as keylogging, which is why I just use my browser on my smartphone).

    There is no getting your money back after you purchase it on steam, so they were either conned out of money or they are giving away their personal info.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    The real reason you should avoid the steam version of FF7 is because it's glitched as hell. If you really want to play the game and have the option of doing so, I'd reccomend the PS1 version every time.

    Or just play FF6... It's a better game anyways. =P

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiare View Post
    The thing that everyone is missing is that you purchase the game and agree to steams EULA, then after you purchase it before installing you have to agree to the SquareEnix EULA which specifically says they are going to sell your personal info to 3rd parties. Then they require you to create a squenix account and possibly connect your facebook account to it (which is allowed to look you up and gather all public info on you even outside of what you post to facebook, and if you use the android app, it can turn on your camera and mic and monitor you as well as keylogging, which is why I just use my browser on my smartphone).

    There is no getting your money back after you purchase it on steam, so they were either conned out of money or they are giving away their personal info.
    That's according to the claim in the original post, which so far everybody has said is baseless, though. I'm guessing that you haven't tried yourself, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saph
    Unless everyone's been lying to me and the next bunch of episodes are The Great Divide II, The Great Divide III, Return to the Great Divide, and Bride of the Great Divide, in which case I hate you all and I'm never touching Avatar again.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    That's according to the claim in the original post, which so far everybody has said is baseless, though. I'm guessing that you haven't tried yourself, after all.
    No one has specifically said what I posted in that last post was baseless. They said some of the other stuff was like the tracking cookies, which for people that aren't programmers or good with computers, get told is spyware by their antivirus or anti spyware software. That is perfectly understandable.

    For anyone that has bought the steam version, do you remember having to agree to a second EULA before being able to install or play the game (but after purchase)? If so, then yes the commenter is correct.

    I didn't try it because I abhor spyware and sharing of my personal information and wouldn't install it on my computer if they paid me to.

    I'll just use the original PC version I have packed away in a box and then download all the fan made patches that allow upgraded 3D models and higher resolutions and bloom effects.

    I was just wondering if it bothered anyone or what their thoughts were on DRM, spyware, and things like that.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    So are Google, Amazon, Facebook, etc. While there's something to be said against that (goes into politics), it's not like this is some new level of corruption that Square is just now sinking to. Everybody else has been doing this for a looooong time. Hell, it even sounds like their "unnecessary online integration" is just the Steam platform in the first place, so this looks like a lot of outrage over nothing new.
    Yep, so if everyone jumped off a cliff, you would too? Or a better analogy: If everyone punched you in the face, you wouldn't care if that last guy that hasn't punched you yet, walked over and did it, I mean everyone did it already which makes it right, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    A tracking cookie is not spyware--it only stores information about what pages you've visited on the website that planted the cookie; it does not and can not store any information about other sites you visit. If that's the quality of this guy's information then I wouldn't pay much attention to what he says.
    It depends on where its from. For instance even though a cookie can only store information when you are on a site, facebook uses a multiprong approach and when a page loads up that has a facebook button on it, facebook logs what page you came from (which is actually the real page you are viewing) and then logs it in their records, in their cookie is just your unique encrypted serial number to look you up. So by allowing facebooks tracking cookies, you basically allow facebook to track everywhere you have been that has a facebook button, whether or not you are logged in. Which was part of the original controversy surrounding the snowden leak. Basically all this massive tracking data was being shared with government agencies without so much as a court clerk warrant.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    I did think it was kind of strange that FFVII (and FFVIII) didn't mention on their store page on Steam that it requires a Square Enix account, I know I've seen that mentioned on games that require EA accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiare View Post
    ...then after you purchase it before installing you have to agree to the SquareEnix EULA which specifically says they are going to sell your personal info to 3rd parties.
    Nothing in their privacy policy seemed especially out of place to me. The only interesting part was that it specifically said that if Square Enix bought or sold businesses/assets, or if Square Enix was bought itself, they have the right to share personal information to with the new entity/owner. I suppose if you wanted, you could look as that as an excuse purely for the sake of selling personal information, instead of making sure that you don't lose anything as a result of business changes. (I suppose that's a big deal since Square Enix runs a couple MMOs)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiare View Post
    Then they require you to create a squenix account and possibly connect your facebook account to it....
    Since I don't even have a Facebook account, I assure you that anyone claiming you need to associate a Facebook account with your Square Enix account is incorrect.
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2014-04-23 at 10:28 AM.
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    The only interesting part was that it specifically said that if Square Enix bought or sold businesses/assets, or if Square Enix was bought itself, they have the right to share personal information to with the new entity/owner.
    This is standard EULA and specifically refers to transferring personal account data to the new company, for the purposes of continuing to provide the service. You could read malicious intent into it, but technically speaking, without this phrase the new company could not legally continue to provide you the service (even while you were still paying for it).


    As for my thoughts on this? I don't like needing to setup additional accounts for a single game, especially for a single-player game. I'd be fine with a Steam account because Steam provides me with a service. Unless the Square Enix account is planning on handing me free games for signing up, I think I'll just pass. It's a bit of a shame, as I was interested in purchasing FFVII and trying to give it a full playthough.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    This is standard EULA and specifically refers to transferring personal account data to the new company, for the purposes of continuing to provide the service. You could read malicious intent into it, but technically speaking, without this phrase the new company could not legally continue to provide you the service (even while you were still paying for it).


    As for my thoughts on this? I don't like needing to setup additional accounts for a single game, especially for a single-player game. I'd be fine with a Steam account because Steam provides me with a service. Unless the Square Enix account is planning on handing me free games for signing up, I think I'll just pass. It's a bit of a shame, as I was interested in purchasing FFVII and trying to give it a full playthough.
    Squeenix is providing cloud storage for your save games (pun intended).

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Maybe it's new, but it specifically says "Requires Square Enix Account" in the requirements on the Steam page for the game.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Maybe it's new, but it specifically says "Requires Square Enix Account" in the requirements on the Steam page for the game.
    Ah, it does now. Wonder why it's still missing on FFVIII's page.
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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Ah, it does now. Wonder why it's still missing on FFVIII's page.
    Wait, 8's on Steam now? o.O How did I miss that?

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoracle View Post
    Wait, 8's on Steam now? o.O How did I miss that?
    You were probably too busy playing it on your PS3/4 on PSN.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    I'm also wondering if you can apply the fan made graphics upgrades or not with the more detailed 3D models. Heck, if I can just take the battle models and make them the main models I'd be happy.

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiare View Post
    You were probably too busy playing it on your PS3/4 on PSN.
    Most likely, yes, or on the original PC discs that I have lying around or on the PS2. But still. I like to have that on Steam, if only to feed my OCD and to have an off-site backup in case everything else breaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiare View Post
    I'm also wondering if you can apply the fan made graphics upgrades or not with the more detailed 3D models. Heck, if I can just take the battle models and make them the main models I'd be happy.
    As far as I remember, you can use the High-Res patches on the steam version. I'd have to check, though, not 100% sure.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoracle View Post
    Most likely, yes, or on the original PC discs that I have lying around or on the PS2. But still. I like to have that on Steam, if only to feed my OCD and to have an off-site backup in case everything else breaks.



    As far as I remember, you can use the High-Res patches on the steam version. I'd have to check, though, not 100% sure.
    Looks like you can use the bootleg patcher to upgrade the graphics http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13212.0
    (Note: This site and tool is 100% legal. It requires you to own the game before it makes any changes and does not include any copyrighted files)

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: DRM, spyware and Final Fantasy VII

    I've seen Amazon pass ads to Facebook all the time, so it's not unreasonable for software you install on your computer to track what you do and turn it into ads anywhere else later on. Do they really? I don't know.

    But ya, always use a spam e-mail address and fake info for such things. Almost everywhere I go claims to be legit and on the up and up with a well known name, yet my spam address gets constant spam and my others get practically none. Not even spam in the spam filter.
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