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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2014

    Default Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    After a week or so of trawling through forum posts regarding the uselessness of the garrote (lol I hold my breath), and wanting to include it in my campaign, I've put together some rules here based upon the garrote rules in 3.5 pathfinder and the sleeper hold feat.

    I want your thoughts before I introduce it to my campaign :)

    Garrote
    Exotic Two-handed Melee Weapon
    Cloth or Leather, 1gp, 1d4, 19-20x2, Bludgeoning (nonlethal)
    Wire, 3gp, 1d4, 19-20x2, Slashing (lethal)

    A garrote is a length of wire or thin rope with wooden handles at both ends. The wire is placed across a victim's throat and crossed behind the neck; when the handles are pulled tight, the garrote blood-chokes them.

    Classes with sneak attack are proficient with the garrote. Using a garrote requires two hands. It is ineffective against a character with metal neck protection, such as those on any form of heavy armor. It can only be used against a target with a neck, no more than one size category larger than the attacker.

    In order for you to use a garrote your opponent must be helpless or you must be behind an opponent who is unaware of you. You must make a grapple check (though you avoid the –4 penalty for not having two hands free) to successfully begin garroting your opponent. This provokes an attack of opportunity, though opponents that are unaware of you or are helpless do not threaten you. Sneak attack damage does not apply to a garrote, however you gain a bonus to your CMB and CMD against your opponent during the garrote grapple, equal to your number of sneak attack dice.

    Your garroted opponent must make a concentration check (DC 20 + your CMB + level of the spell he’s casting) to cast a spell with a verbal component, use a command word item, or use any magic requiring speech. They also can not talk loudly.

    Successfully grappling or maintaining the grapple deals damage with the garrote. After maintaining the grapple the only grappling actions you can take are moving or releasing the victim.

    Grappling with the garrote has a blood-choke effect as per the Sleeper Hold feat:
    If you maintain the grapple for a number of consecutive rounds equal to your opponent’s Constitution bonus (minimum 1 round), you can attempt to knock out your opponent. The victim must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Str modifier) or else it falls unconscious for 1d4 rounds. Each successive round you attempt this, the target takes a cumulative –1 penalty on its saving throw. Creatures that are immune to bleed damage, stunning, or critical hits are immune to this ability.

    It actually does something now, though only in specific circumstances, and isn't SoD. Thoughts? :D
    Last edited by Jain_Mor; 2014-04-29 at 09:55 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Vancouver BC Canada
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    Male

    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Looks fine, it's incredibly situational, but right now I can't think of anything that would do it better.
    I would probably make it a light weapon and allow it to be used on a pinned opponent.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Arse end of nowhere, UK
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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jain_Mor View Post
    Successfully grappling or maintaining the grapple deals damage with the garrote. After maintaining the grapple the only grappling actions you can take are moving or releasing the victim
    Might want to reword that, since it technically means you can't attempt to pin the opponent, which is entirely off imo. Otherwise looks ok, I agree it's highly situational but within it's limits it's actually worth the hassle.

    Regarding Hanuman's assertion of making it a light weapon, I actually agree, but it should still be two handed. I know this is rather irregular but a two handed, light weapon would actually make the most sense. Also, had you considered revamping the locking garrote? Works just the same, but may be locked in place after the attack so you can do other stuff (like garrote someone else). This leads to my last question; if you continue to hold your opponent once they are unconscious, what happens then?
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2014

    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    Might want to reword that, since it technically means you can't attempt to pin the opponent, which is entirely off imo. Otherwise looks ok, I agree it's highly situational but within it's limits it's actually worth the hassle.

    Regarding Hanuman's assertion of making it a light weapon, I actually agree, but it should still be two handed. I know this is rather irregular but a two handed, light weapon would actually make the most sense. Also, had you considered revamping the locking garrote? Works just the same, but may be locked in place after the attack so you can do other stuff (like garrote someone else). This leads to my last question; if you continue to hold your opponent once they are unconscious, what happens then?
    Thanks for the replies :) Yes I wanted it to powerful but only in narrow circumstance, this way it won't in anyway dominate a build or combat in any fashion but it still super sweet to have around.

    I have no idea how you would pin someone while you are garroting someone :/ your hands are busy garroting them, how do you wrestle them to the ground while they are still conscious and "bind" them with your body?

    And I don't think if you are pinning someone you can garrote them, however if someone else is pinning them, then to you they are treated as helpless. I'm going to change the entry so you can use it on a helpless opponent or on an unaware opponent from behind. Thanks for that!

    I originally had it as a two handed exotic light weapon, but didn't see that there was precedence for a light two handed weapon.. I also then realised if that was the case then agile maneuvers would apply to it, and felt that this wouldn't make too much sense. When you are garroting someone they are going to be struggling for their life and you are going to have to hold on tight, I don't think subtlety and dex is going to help you too much here, you need strength in those checks in my opinion.

    Haven't looked into the locking garrote, will check it out and re-post here :)

    If you hold someone after they are unconscious you follow the suffocation rules set out:

    "When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates"

    I would rule that with the garrote, when they fail their con check they are unconscious for 1d4 rounds, if you then continue choking them for another round then they fall to 0 hp and are unconscious until they are healed, if you continue another round then they drop to -1 and start dying and then in the subsequent round they die from suffocation. Lovely :)
    Last edited by Jain_Mor; 2014-04-29 at 09:51 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Arse end of nowhere, UK
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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jain_Mor View Post
    I have no idea how you would pin someone while you are garroting someone :/ your hands are busy garroting them, how do you wrestle them to the ground while they are still conscious and "bind" them with your body?
    For most people, yeah ok, but a monk or someone with improved unarmed strike knows how to use other parts of their body too. Jujitsu has a whole series of grabs AND THROWS done from the floor with just the legs (as an example, there are many others) which allow a pin with both hands free. I can do a few of them, and I'm not even that good o_O
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    For most people, yeah ok, but a monk or someone with improved unarmed strike knows how to use other parts of their body too. Jujitsu has a whole series of grabs AND THROWS done from the floor with just the legs (as an example, there are many others) which allow a pin with both hands free. I can do a few of them, and I'm not even that good o_O
    Is there a feat or monk ability in game that states that you can grapple someone even when both your hands are full? If so then I'd add an exception with that feat/ability, because that's what it does (I'm not at all familiar with the monk).

    If not, then as far as the rules are concerned it's not possible to grapple anyone while both your hands are full in the first place :/ and that's something that should be looked at/homebrewed with the monk itself, not here.
    Last edited by Jain_Mor; 2014-04-29 at 05:19 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Fair point, there's a feat somewhere I'm sure, but it's not really relevant either way. It's probably a DM decision thing....
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    gr8artist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    Since weapon rules seem kinda confused about how to classify the garotte, why not make it a piece of adventuring gear.
    It would do essentially the same thing, but would apply the benefits to your grapple options. Also, after falling unconscious, I think we could consider the drowning rules as a good place to start.
    Falls unconscious and cannot hold breath
    Next round, drops to 0 health.
    Next round drops to -1 and begins dying.
    Next round he's dead.
    Letting go prevents additional stages of strangulation, leaving the subject unconscious for a number of rounds equal to 1d4+1 per round of strangulation, and at whatever level of health they had after your last step.
    My Homebrew and Extended Signature
    Current avatar: Charza Sahlaren, by gr8artist

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Garrote: Decent Homebrew Rules?

    No! ANYTHING but drowning rules! Ahem.....sorry, I mean...

    Yes, makes perfect sense since there are already rules in place for this >_>
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

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