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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook (3.5E)

    Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook:


    This handbook is all about ways to prevent enemies from doing the things they want to. There are a few major methods:

    Tripping them so they take a -4 to attack and have to waste actions to stand.
    Stand still to prevent them from moving.
    Bullrushes to prevent them from being where they want to be.
    Doing all this on their turn via huge attack of opportunity generation.
    Dazing/stunning/fearing.

    This option is excellent
    This option is good
    This option is decent
    This option is weak
    This option is a trap


    The one noticeable thing here is that there are tonnes, and tonnes, and tonnes of interesting options: Feats, Class Abilities, and tricks. Unfortunately, you can't get them all, and many of them are tragically not fighter bonus feats.

    There is also an interesting metagame problem here: You can build melee characters well enough to basically instantly negate 100% of melee encounters, resulting in your DM providing you with nothing but archers and casters.


    Weapons:
    Guisarm and Armour Spikes: This has the advantage of providing reach tripping, 2 handed damage, and not requiring a feat. Unfortunately, you probably can't get 2 handed damage off your armour spikes or spiked gauntlet.
    Spiked Chain: Requires an exotic weapon proficiency, but threatens everywhere within reach and is also tripping. Unearthed Arcana has “weapon group proficiencies” which lets you take Flails and Chains and Exotic weapons rather than spending the feat, but you lose out on a lot of other proficiencies.
    Kusarigama (DMG pg 145): 1 handed, light, 1d6, otherwise just like a spiked chain (reach, tripping).
    Unarmed Strikes: Importantly, you can trip with unarmed strikes. Best with swordsage/monk levels.

    Sword and Axe: For the High Sword/Low Axe feat, which provides a free trip attempt when you hit with each.
    Dire Flail: You're using the Dire Flail Smash feat. It's a tripping and disarming weapon, but unfortunately, not a reach one.
    Morningstar/Heavy Mace/Greatclub: You're using these for Three Mountains Style, presumably with a bull rush build/intimidate, rather than tripping/aoo/reach.

    Spoiler: Weapons by Type (reach, polearm, trip, double)
    Show

    Assistance from GilesTheCleric, of GiTP

    Weapons with reach:
    Ankus; Bec de Corbin; Entangling Pole; Fauchard; Glaive; Greatspear; Guisarme; Lance, Heavy; Lochaber Axe; Longspear; Longspear, Microlith Barbed; Lucerne Hammer; Mancatcher; Naginata; Partisan; Pilum; Pincer Staff; Poleaxe, Heavy; Ranseur; Sasumata; Sharrash, Talenta; Sodegarami; Sugliin; Voulge; Warpike, Dwarven; Awl Pike; Chaulaks; Chain, Spiked; Duom; Whip

    Weapons that count as polearms for feats:
    Ankus; Awl Pike; Axe, Lochaber; Axe, Orc Double; Bardiche; Bec de Corbin; Duom; Fauchard; Glaive; Goad; Greatspear; Halberd; Hammer, Lucerne; Longspear; Longstaff; Naginata; Partisan; Pilum; Poleaxe, Heavy; Quarterstaff; Ranseur; Ritiik; Sasumata; Sharrash, Talenta; Sodegarami; Spear; Septum; Urgrosh, Dwarven; Voulge; Warpike, Dwarven.

    Weapons that trip:
    Ankus; Bolo; Chaulaks; Chain, Spiked; Dragonchain; Flail, Dire; Flail, Heavy; Flail, Light; Guisarme; Gyrspike; Halberd; Hammer, Gnome Hooked; Kama; Lasso; Lochaber Axe; Lynxpaw; Scorpion Chain, Drow; Scythe; Sharrash, Talenta; Sickle; Warpike, Dwarven; Whip; Tigerskull Club.

    Double weapons:
    Axe, Orc Double; Flail, Dire; Ghost Spike; Gythka; Hammer, Double; Hammer, Gnome Hooked; Gyrspike; Kaua’koi; Lajatang; Lynxpaw; Quarterstaff; Scimitar, Valenar Double; Spear, Dwarven Double; Sword, Two-Bladed; Urgrosh, Dwarven.


    When you're looking at Trip+Reach, spiked chain is classic.
    If you're looking for Double + Trip, Dire Flails and Lynxpaws.
    There are no double + reach weapons, so you can't use exotic weapons master to give a double reach weapon trip and use the double hit feat to make 2 reach trip hits on each AoO --- unfortunately.

    The Awl Pike has 15 foot reach instead of 10.





    Stats:
    Strength: This is a primary stat, being the provided of most DC's, opposed checks, and damage and to hit. You want high strength
    Dexterity: This is a high secondary stat, being relevant for feats, AoO's, armor class and reflex saves, and sometimes opposed checks and DC's.
    Constitution: You want some con, people are going to attack you.
    Intelligence: You probably need intelligence 13 for combat expertise. Warblades/Swashbucklers get a little more out of this.
    Wisdom: You probably don't need wisdom, though your a melee character so you will save will need some help. If you're a psychic warrior you need a bit more of this.
    Charisma: You probably don't need charisma, though if you are a crusader you get some mileage out of this.


    Races and Templates:
    Human: The bonus feat is always golden, as you inevitably want more feats.

    Half-Ogre template: (Dragon 313 pages 95-96): If small or medium +1 size category (+10 ft movement), +2 NA, Darkvision 60, Giant Blooded, +4 Str -2 int -2cha, LA +1 if size increase, +0 if not (Pair with Half-Minotaur and get both for LA+1).

    Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313 pages 95-96): If small or medium, +1 Size category (+10 ft movement), +2 NA, Gore Attack (1d6 medium, secondary natural attack), Darkvision 60, +4 to escape mazes, Scent, +2 Listen/Spot/Search, +4 Str/+2 con/-2 int, LA+1. Increasing size provides another +8 str, -2 dex, +4 con and +2 NA

    A Half-Ogre, Half-Minotaur Human, for example, provides +16 Str, -2 Dex, +6 Con, -4 int, -2 cha, NA+6, and size: Large for LA+1. Dragon Magazine, what did you expect.

    A 32 point buy looks like, if you need to worry about Dex/int 13 for feats: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 9, modified to become: Str 26, Dex 14, Co 20, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 7. For LA+1.


    Goliath (Races of Stone): +4 str, +2 con, -2 dex and powerful build for LA+1. This is the reasonable thing that DM's probably won't blink at, since it comes from Races of Stone.

    Dragon Born: Everyone's favourite template can, of course, mix in well here. Found here: https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b . +2 con, -2 dex, and wings or a breath weapon or senses. Your choice. Lose most of your normal racial benefits --- but not powerful build. Hint hint. Only use if you have enough dex boosting for AoO's. Merging with Goliath can really hurt (-4 dex).

    Half-Giant: SRD (here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/mo.../halfGiant.htm) Powerful build and a psychic focus. Unfortunately, also LA +1, +2 Str/+2 con -2 dex. Unless you really want 2 power points for free (entering Warmind without psychic warrior), Goliath is probably better; especially with mountain rage.

    Everything Else: Templates and races that boost strength/dex/con while penalizing mental stats might not be terrible, but these four really shine, though I'm interested in hearing more if anyone has a favourite race.

    Duerger: LA+1, but psionic powers auto-augment with hit dice. Augments are +2, +6, and +6, so at 3 you get free 10 min/level, at 7 you get a free quicken or double size boost, at 9 you get that with the duration boost, and at 13 you get quicken + huge size, and 15 you get the full shebang. That being said, it's a 1/day trick.



    Classes:
    Fighter: The Bonus Feats matter here, with 4 levels providing 3, 6 levels for 4, 8 for 5, and 10 for 6. Fighter past 10 will probably be better off with mixing in other classes: Cloistered cleric/ordained champion is 2 level for 2 feats, Psychic warrior is 2 levels for 2 feats, as is feat rogue.

    Fighter, Dungeoncrasher (DS, p 10) : Trade your 2nd and possibly 6th level bonus feat for the ability to deal damage with bullrushing people into walls (4d6+2* strength at 2, 8d6+3* strength at 6). Combine with things like directed bull rush and shock trooper.

    Counter Attack (PHB 2, p 45): Lose bonus feat at 12th. Use a full round action to make an attack, when you're attacked during that round you may attack your attacker as an immediate action. This doesn't seem to be an attack of opportunity (it's never mentioned), so it's like free Robilar's Gambit, but requires you to take slightly less attacks. You can merge it with AoO's, so each time someone attacks you, you can get an immediate attack + an Attack of Opportunity.

    Overpowering Attack (PHB 2, p 45): Lose bonus feat at 16th. Make a full round action to make one attack which deals double damage...as do all your attacks of opportunity until the next round. Fighter 16 starts to look remarkably viable.

    Zhentarim Figher Substitution Levels (CV, web): is useful for 3rd/5th and 9th level substitutions, which respectively give you skill focus: intimidate, let intimidate last for 24 hours for social stuff, not demoralization, and let you intimidate as a swift action (for demoralization). Combine with Imperious Command + Intimidating Rage + Never Outnumbered Skilltrick to cause everyone within 10 feet to cower for 1 round, then be shaken for duration of rage.

    Psychic Warrior: Levels 2 get you 2 bonus feats with only 1 lost BAB (or 0.5 if fractional). The expansion power is an excellent version of Enlarge Person. If you go Psychic Warrior 8, you can dump 8 power points into it, which gives you 2 size increases instead of one --- and is conveniently where the 4th Psychic Warrior Bonus feat is located.

    Barbarian: Barbarian itself isn't great, however:
    Goliath Barbarians get Mountain Rage (Races of Stone), which gives a size boost while raging.

    The Whirling Frenzy variant from Unearthed Arcana is an improvement over typical rage, providing an extra attack.

    The Ferocity Rage Variant here boosts your dexterity, which can be good for AoO builds. https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

    Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion famously trades Fast movement 10 for pounce which allows full attacks on charges.

    The Wolf Totem from Unearthed Arcana gives you improved trip at 2nd level without requiring combat expertise, allowing you to have lower intelligence.

    Builds with only a few levels of Barbarian + Intimidating rage are also going to want to look at the -Extra Rage (Rage) [CW] Feat: +2 rages/day.

    Monk: Monk itself, is, as everyone knows, terrible. Only 2 levels of it, however, provide flurry of blows, improved unarmed strike, wisdom to AC, evasion, and 2 bonus feats. The trick is, of course, trading the feats away using bizarre alternative class features: Monk Variant: Fighting Styles from UA has options you might care about, such as Cobra Strike (Dodge/mobility, great for qualifying for things), Overwhelming Attack (Power attack, improved bull rush, if you were already taking those feats), Passive Way (Combat Expertise and improved trip).

    Ranger: Two levels offer two weapon fighting on the cheap, but aside from that, Ranger offers little to lockdown builds.

    Rogue: Rogue itself offers little aside from skills and bonus damage, but Feat Rogue 2 (trade sneak attack dice for fighter bonus feat progression) is a great way to grab 2 more fighter feats + evasion + some skill bonuses. Rogue + Staggering Strike + Some way of reliably triggering it on AoO's, however, is excellent.

    Factotum (Dungeonscape): Factotum 1 provides int to things (sometimes, as long as you have inspiration points), but Factotum 3 provides int to combat maneuvers. Some synnergy here with Warblade and Swashbuckler 3. Factotum 8 provides the ruinable cunning surge, but that requires a level and feat investment that most lockdowns won't be able to provide.

    Knight (PHB2): Knight 3 provides the excellent Bulwark of Defense, which makes all terrain you threaten difficult terrain (IE, no 5 foot steps). Unfortunately, that's about where the class ends --- and most people will get a similar ability via Thicket of Blades with X8/crusader 2. The 4th level ability can force enemies to attack you, but the restrictions are terrible.

    Swashbuckler(Complete Warrior): Swashbuckler 3 provides Weapon Finesse and Intelligence to damage, which is not terrible, but you probably don't have the stats to make it really work.

    Marshall (Miniatures Handbook): Marshall 1 provides an aura which gives charisma to combat maneuvers. Marshall 2 provides an aura +1 to your choice of attack, damage, DR/-, 5 foot movement, saves, AC. That's pretty meh.

    Crusader: Crusader is in part designed for lockdown; many of it's maneuvers work specifically to lock down enemies, or hurt them once they're locked down.

    Warblade: Warblade isn't quite as lockdown oriented as a crusader, but it's still excellent, with good access to similar tricks. 1 level of warblade lets you turn your Cleric 1 war domain weapon focus into whatever weapon focus you like, so that's convenient for qualifying for pre-requisites.

    Swordsage:: Swordsage is the least lockdown oriented, but tome of battle brings a lot of excellent things to the table, as per usual.

    Totemist: Based around natural weapons (making reach more troublesome), they do have Worg Pelt, which when bound to hand, gives a free trip with bite attacks. Problem is, knock-down already gives a free trip to all attacks...

    Gishing it up
    Psionics has some easy options (Psychic Warrior, Warmind) with benefits.

    Divine, Cleric8/Crusader2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 gets you the standard crusader goodies and casting as a 16th level cleric and BAB18. Cleric9/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator10 gets 17th cleric casting and 17 BAB. Just take lockdown focused feats and win.
    Go Cleric5/Ordained Champion3/Crusader2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 if you want to focus on melee a little more; You have BAB 18 and the option of 2 fighter bonus feats, but only 15th level cleric casting. There are some excellent cleric buffs for melees in general, and Righteous Wrath provides a size boost.

    On the Arcane Side, Jade Pheonix Mage Combines the Arcane + Maneuvers, but isn't really focused on the excellent Crusader lockdown maneuvers. Abjurant Champion is excellent, but again, not specifically lockdown useful. But ultimately, lockdown is about 70-80% a feat base combat style, which means it combines well with whatever you like.


    Prestige Classes:
    Cloistered Cleric 1 (UA) + Ordained Champion 1 (CC): Cloistered Cleric 1 provides knowledge devotion + war domain for weapon focus + 1 other domain. Ordained champion provides a 4th domain, and then you can trade the two domains for 2 fighter bonus feats --- one more level provides Diehard if you wanted it for some reason.

    Exotic Weapon Master (Complete Warrior): You can make your exotic weapon of choice a tripping weapon. Unfortunately, there are no reach double weapons, so this doesn't make double hit + reach work, but there are still uses for this. Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting reduces you're TWF penalty by 1, and Flurry of Strikes gives you a typical extra attack (works with Spiked Chain despite not being an exotic double weapon).

    Bear Warrior 1 ---> War Shaper 3 (Complete Warrior, both): 4 levels gets you +5 feet of reach, plus +4 Strength +4 constitution and the ability to turn into a raging bear. You probably want to squeeze the extra rage feat in if you enter with Barbarian 1 or 2. If you're going bullrushing style, this is probably a reasonable thing to consider, if you're going traditional spiked chain tripper, you don't get to wield weapons as a giant bear, so Don't do it.

    If you can use a mouth pick (LoM+1 enhancement) spiked chain, things get crazy.

    War mind (Expanded Psionics Handbook): If you're going psionic, Warmind is an excellent option: It's enterable at 5th with a single level of psychic warrior or a psionic race. With no feat requirements, It provides a decent power progression (basically, psychic warrior) 3/4ths BAB d10, and free action Str/Con bonuses, free action AC bonuses, DR, and the most important 5th level ability: Sweeping Strike.
    He can choose squares he threatens that are adjacent to each other, and his attacks apply to creatures in those two squares equally. A war mind can use this ability on any attack, even an attack of opportunity or a cleave attempt.
    I'm taking an attack of opportunity to improved trip someone who dared to move...and they're next to another enemy, and I also get to trip them? That's incredibly awesome, but it's even more awesome when you work it with Shock Trooper's Directed Bull Rush. Round 1: Bull rush a bunch of people so that they're near each other (knock em back and knock em down). Round 2: Momentum swing all over the place. Use AoO's to keep them close to each other with stand still and improved trip.

    Ironforge Soulmaster (Magic of Incarnum): There is a guide here, but at 9th level, your weapon dazes. With 3/4ths BAB, no feat pre-reqs, and incarnum progression, if you want an incarnum lockdown, this is probably a good idea. Unfortunately, I'm far from an expert on the magic of blue, so you'll notice this guide is short on incarnum related tricks. The DC is 10+con+invested essentia. Looking at the meta-cap on Essentia, that could reasonably be 4 invested essentia for a con based DC similar to a 4th level spell --- but this trick wouldn't come online until 14th, unfortunately. See Red Fel's guide here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...28WIP-PEACH%29

    Invisible Blade: (Complete Warrior): 3 bad feat pre-reqs, the important here is the 5th level ability to feint as a free action once per round. This + Group Fake out + Staggering Strike means your AoO's all trigger staggering strike. With knock-down, you can trip and stagger enemies on AoO's, rendering them entirely useless. Unfortunately, the sneak attack this class provides only triggers with daggers...or an aptitude spiked chain?

    Deepstone Sentinel: (Tome of Battle): 4th level gives you Stone Curse: As an immediate action, hit melee makes will save DC 10+1/2 level + Str modifier or movement modes 0 for 1 round (except fly). The immediate action part of it is not great, and you've got a dwarven (not great) prestige class focused around Stone Dragon (not great) maneuvers. Other abilities are also focused around knocking people prone, but they require too large action types (Standard, 1 target, dragons tooth), and Earthquake, which is swift + 60 foot range but only 1 per encounter...you know what, I had this originally coloured as orange, but I think it's an okay option...

    Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion): 3 feats, but you might already have IUS + Power attack, depending on which feat chain you're looking at. Great fortitude sucks. Otherwise, full BAB, D10 hit dice, fort/ref saves, and 3 levels of: Con to AC while unarmored, unarmed damage progression (to 1d10), fast movement 10, Feral Trance (Bonus to DEX? Yes!), and scent. This is good for a build that was already going unarmed strike style (probably for defensive throw/tripping adjacent while wielding a guisarm).

    Scarlet Corsair: (Stormwrack): https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050805b . With no feat pre-requisites, 5 levels gets you intimidate to demoralize everyone within 30 feet, and free action feints (every 2d4 rounds) (which combines well with staggering strike). It is a better offer than Invisible Blade if you want to go staggering strike, since it doesn't blow your feats/limit sneak attack to daggers.

    Dwarven Defender: Curmudgeon wanted this included. With 40ft+ reach you are less ineffective than you usually would be. But you're still blowing 3 feats (of which, only 1 is a fighter bonus feat), and taking levels in something to not move.

    Knight of The Raven: Expedition to Castle Ravenloft: With 9/10ths divine casting and full BAB, this is an excellent cleric prestige class. The 5th level ability works like mini-thicket of blades, allowing you to force one enemy to provoke off 5 foot steps. Conveniently no feat requirements, either.

    Bloodstorm Blade: Tome of Battle: It's a throwing focused prestige class. Use with Boomerang Daze combat style.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Feats:
    General Style Feats:
    Combat Expertise: [Fighter] It's often an important pre-requisite, and you'll probably never use it.
    Power Attack: [Fighter] Bonus damage.
    Blindfight: [Fighter] Best picked up via the Darkness domain, and lets you take Pierce Magical Concealment.
    Pierce Magical Concealment: (Complete Arcane) Ignoring miss chances to to spells is great.
    Exotic Weapon Proficiency: [Fighter] Good for those spiked chains (or whatever).
    Snap Kick: (ToB): gives you an extra attack on AoO's. If you have unarmed strike/bonus damage, this can be useful.
    Elusive Target: (CWar) With mobility as a prereq (ew), all 3 of the maneuverings are useful: negating power attack, when adjacent to 2 causing the first attack to be rolled against the enemy, and if they miss when you provoke an AoO from moving out of a threatened area, you get to trip them back (not even as an AoO! Just a free trip!)
    Steadfast Determination: PHB2: Don't fail fort save on natural 1, use con instead of wis for will saves. It's good for shoring up an important weakness, but non-fighter bonus feats are too damned tight; get items of moment of the perfect mind instead.
    Earth Devotion: (CC): Creates difficult terrain. Get thicket of blades instead.
    Knowledge Devotion: CC: It's excellent, but it's just bonus attack/damage. You can do so much more with feats; but if you take a cloistered cleric dip, take it for sure.
    Goad: Miniatures Handbook. [fighter]. Move action; force one enemy to will save or melee attack against you. The action type is high, the save is charisma based, and it only applies to melee attacks.

    AoO style Feats:
    Combat Reflexes:[Fighter] You're going to be an AoO build regardless of what you do, you need combat reflexes. It's also frequently a pre-requisite.
    Mage Slayer: (MM5) You need to be able to AoO casting mages. This lets you.
    Karmic Strike: (CWar) It requires the enemy to hit you, not merely to attack you (like Robilar's). On the other hand, it comes online way earlier. On the other hand, it requires combat expertise, which you might otherwise skip by virtue of wolf totem barbarians.
    Robilar's Gambit: [Fighter] (PHB2) AoO each time the enemy tries to attack you. It's awesome, but the BAB requirement means it comes on tragically late.
    Defensive Sweep: [Fighter] (PHB2) AoO if the enemy is adjacent and doesn't attempt to move. Thicket of Blades + this means a guaranteed AoO on every enemy round. But the BAB requirement is again, tragic.
    Defensive Throw: (CWar) With 4 required feats (even if 2 can be gotten at monk1 and 2 you would take anyways), this has steep prereqs. It's basically karmic strike, except it only works on the person you're dodging, they don't get an attack bonus, and you only get to trip them (and get the improved trip attack if you succeed) as an AoO.
    Sidestep: (Miniatures Handbook) With steep requirements (dodge, mobility, dex 15 and tumble8), come incredible benefits: a free 5 foot once per turn when you AoO.
    Evasive Reflexes: (ToB) This is sidestep, except no once per turn limit and it costs you the AoO. Which is better? This doesn't have pre-requisites...but damn. Sidestep.
    Deft Opportunist: (Complete Adventurer) +4 to attacks during AoO's. If you have lots, this matters.
    Hold The Line: (CWar) You can AoO a charging opponent who enters a threatened area --- it resolves before the charge attack, so you can stop chargers by tripping them/standstilling them. The downside is it only works for charges, and thicket of blades probably gives you those AoO's already.
    Large and In Charge: (Draconomicon) Requires you to be large (or goliath and count as such), and requires natural reach 10ft...but after succeeding on an AoO based on them moving into threatened area, you make an opposed check (strength + 1/5th damage + normal size bonuses for being larger). If you succeed, they stand still. It's like standstill, except you get to damage them.
    Stormguard Warrior: (Tome of Battle) A classic; trade AoO's for attack and damage bonuses, or use touch attacks to build up attack and damage bonuses.
    Supernatural Opportunist: (Tome of magic): AoO on supernatural abilities, requires a useless feat. Too rare to really matter.

    Tripping Style Feats:
    Improved Trip: [Fighter] It's a good way to stop enemies, and it gets you a bonus attack (at their -4 for being prone armor class!) Awesome.
    Stand Still: (Expanded Psionics Handbook) This is good for enemies that are just too big or too many legged to trip (or consistently flying, if your DM rules that way. (Enemies have to make a save DC your damage to keep moving).
    Jotenbrud: (Races of Faerun) It treats you as large if it's advantageous, and is only available to humans (from FR regions)...by the time you're getting consistent enlarges it doesn't matter, so the long term viability here is a little low.
    Knock-down: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/div....htm#knockDown) When you deal 10 damage+, you get a free trip attempt. This is good for enemies you don't suspect you'll be able to trip; you can attack normally and get the back up trip attempt, rather than try to trip, fail, and get no attack. If your DM rules that you get to use improved trips attack with the free trip attempt here, this goes up to totally awesome, as all your attacks go from “Touch attack, trip, attack” to “Attack, trip, attack again!”
    Wolf Beserker: (Unapproachable East) +4 on trips, lets you take trip without the combat expertise prerequisite.

    Bull Rushing Style Feats:
    Improved Bull Rush: [Fighter] It's good for pushing people around, but is somewhat hard to do. It's not really anyones favourite combat maneuver until you start pairing it with dungeon crasher or other better combos...like
    Knockback: (Races of Stone) If you hit with power attack, free bullrush. Bonus on opposed strength check by how much you power attacked by means guaranteed wins. Hint: Combine with Knock-down and Dungeoncrasher, and every attack you make bullrushes, knocks them prone, and possibly provides bonus damage from the wall. Even better? You don't have to follow them. And if you're in thicket of blades, that movement probably provokes an AoO!
    Shock Trooper: [Fighter] (CWar) Directed Bull Rush, Domino Rush, and heedless charge. Heedless Charge famously lets you take the penalty for power attack to AC instead of Damage, but Directed Bull Rush here is useful for dungeon crashers, and Domino rush is slick if you have improved trip, at least prior to levels where you get lots of attacks.
    Combat Brute: [Fighter] (CWar) Bonus damage after bullrushing people based on the distance you move them, and momentum swing gives you bonus damage after power attacking round 2 after a charge (*3 instead of *2). This is less lockdown and more what you do about it after. The improved Sunder pre-req is bad.
    Tiger Blooded: (ToB): 5 foot knockback with Tiger Claw maneuvers, specifically doesn't provoke AoO's.
    Commetary Collision: (PHB2) [Fighter]: Ready standard action; enemy charges in range, you counter charge. They can only charge you. If your DM lets you use steadfast boost from MiC to constantly be ready against a charge without blowing actions, This is amazing.
    Further more, as long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had readied that weapon against any creature that charges you (and thus it deals double damage if your attack is successful), even if the weapon can't normally be set against a charge.
    Weapon Style Feats:
    Not a Feat: The Weapon Aptitude Enhancement (+1): From ToB page 148,
    A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon, such as Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or the like, can apply the benefi ts of those feats to any weapon that has the aptitude quality. In addition, if any of the wielder’s weapon use feats are specifi cally keyed to the aptitude weapon’s type, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
    If this means you can use Weapon Style feats with your guisarm/armor spikes or spiked chain (check with DM), things like High Sword/Low Axe (High Guisarm/low haft?) and Dire Flail Smash (dire spiked chain smash?) both become excellent, fast.

    Curmudgeon of GitP points out that Weapon Aptitude specifies a singular weapon type, which removes High Sword/Low Axe as an option; but not Dire Flail Smash, Boomerang Daze, or Three Mountains Style.


    High Sword/Low Axe: (Cwar) Requires two weapon focuses (ouch), but when you hit with both, you get a free trip attempt and that trip attempts attack. It's a good combat style for a lockdown, except that it doesn't help you get reach --- making it interesting and alternative but not excellent. It's great if you can use it with an aptitude spiked chain.
    Improved Unarmed Strike [Fighter] + Superior Unarmed Strike: (Tome of Battle) This helps you use your unarmed attacks to trip and deal damage if you're going the guisarm route with monk and swordsage levels, but inevitably, you're not getting enough levels of those to really damage off of these abilities. Probably better off going spiked chain.
    Two Weapon Fighting [Fighter] --->Improved Two Weapon Fighting [Fighter] --->Double Hit [Fighter] (Miniatures Handbook): If I can find an exotic double weapon with reach and used exotic weapon master to make this a tripping weapon, it's going to be my new favourite trick Unfortunately, said weapon doesn't seem to exist. Otherwise, two weapon fighting with a lockdown is feat intensive and generally weaker --- though a 15 or 20 ft reach dire flail smash double hit two weapon fighter is still a pretty damn cool build. Try to trip on the first AoO, get a free attack, hit with the second --- tripped and dazed. Oh YEAH! Or just use aptitude weapon and do it with a Spiked Chain.
    Dire Flail Smash: [Fighter] (Champions of Ruin) Requires improved Sunder (eww) and weapon focus, and exotic weapon proficiency, but if you hit with both ends, you can daze (fort negates, but the DC is 10+1/2 level+str, so not bad). Dire flails are also tripping weapons, and double hit would let you daze on AoO's (awesome!) but the big downside is the lack of reach here, leaving it, like High Sword/Low Axe, a good combat style for a lockdown, but without reach, merely an interesting and alternative option, but not great. It's great if you can use it with an aptitude spiked chain.
    Three Mountains Style: (CWar) 4 feats, 2 of which you're decently likely to have and 1 of which is a frequent pre-requisite. If you hit twice with a heavy mace/morningstar/great club, make a fortitude save versus nauseate (DC 10+str+1/2 char level). The weapons are subpar even if nauseate is a good effect. It's great if you can use it with an aptitude spiked chain.
    Boomerang Style: (Races of Eberron): You use Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Talenta Boomerang), Boomerang Daze, BAB+4 [Fighter if regional drow/halfling, otherwise general] (dazes, DC 10+dmg fort), and Boomerang Ricochet, Dex 13, BAB+4 [Fighter if regional...), which lets you hit a second one at -2 attack. So you get lots of dazing throwing attacks --- but you're not threatening adjacent areas...until you work in an aptitude spiked chain.
    Shield Style: Improved Shield Bash [Fighter], Shield Charge (Cwar) [Fighter] (free trip when charging with a shield), shield slam (Cwar) [Fighter] (with charge, free Daze, DC 10+1/2 char level+str), and possibly Shield Ward (PHB2) [Fighter] or Agile Shield fighter (PHB2) [Fighter]. While it's a cool style (charge, trip and daze them then hit em again!), it is very, very charge based, and doesn't synnergize wonderfully with traditional AoO lockdowns. Aptitude weapon doesn't solve this problem since it's charging focused.
    Staggering Strike: CADv. Unfortunately, you need some sneak attack, but if you deal damage with a melee sneak attack, you stagger (Fort DC DAMAGE dealt). To be clear, that's madness. If you've got good flanking/good ways to render people flat footed (see invisible blade), you can trip and daze people on the AoO. I put this under combat style because hunting down sneak attack dice/flat footed stuff isn't going to be an option in every build. (Blurstrike tragically doesn't do what you need here). Invisible Blade 5 works, or Clarion Commander (ToB feat), but Clarion Commander requires a tragic standard action to intimidate for 1 minute flanking...though if you can use it with never outnumbered (which is a bluff based skill trick) it might be worth it.
    Freezing the Life Blood: (Cwar), [Fighter], huge requirements (BAB10, Wis 17, and IUS+Stunning Fist), lets you use stunning fist to paralyse for 1d4+1 rounds instead --- has to be an unarmed attack. Use with Contagious Paralysis (Libris Mortis) and Directed Bull Rush or Setting Sun throwing maneuvers to push your paralysed enemy into other people, forcing paralysis. DC is 10+1/2 level + wis, unfortunately, so the requirements here are going to guarantee it comes on late.
    Ranged Pin:(Cwar), [Fighter]. If within 5 feet of wall/barrier/tree, and they're wearing armor/clothing, you can pin them to the spot. Standard action, DC 15 strength or escape artist check. Good way to nail down casters --- but ranged combat lacks a lot of good options for lockdown. Useful to consider if you're going primarily ranged and want some options.

    Intimidating Feats:
    Imperious Command: (Drow of the Underdark) If demoralize in combat, cower in fear for 1 round, shaken for next. Use with a way to get intimidate as a better action type (Prestige classes or Fearsome Armor) and the Never Outnumbered Skill trick.
    Intimidating Rage: (Cwar) When entering rage, demoralize 1 foe in 30 feet as free action. Last until rage ends, usable only once per rage. The major downside here is you probably don't have tonnes of rages, but it does work with never outnumbered, so if you have say, 3 rages, and 3 encounters of mobs in 10 feet around you, it works.
    Instantaneous Rage: (Cwar): Combine with Imperious Command and Intimidating Rage: rage as an immediate action and ruin everyone elses start of combat.
    Intimidating Strike: (PHB2) [Fighter] It's good at lower levels, but your intimidate penalty doesn't grow, and it requires a standard action --- and it can't worsen people past shaken.

    Reach Feats
    Willing Deformity + Deformity (Tall): (Heroes of Horror), requires evil. +3 Intimidate, This provides +5 feet of reach, but requires you to be evil and medium size, and -1 ac and -2 hide.
    Aberrant Blood + Inhuman Reach: (Lords of Madness), humanoids only: Gain a minor benefit and +5 feet of reach, +2 climb checks, -1 attacks, plus this awesome text:
    As described on page 112 of the Player's Handbook, a reach weapon doubles your normal reach
    : These 4 feats, +enlarge person/large size, give you a base reach of 20...or a reach of 40 with a reach weapon. That's awesome. You need to go large after you take the Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall) feats, though.

    Extended Reach (Savage Species). Requires “feeler, nonrigid body or a nonrigid attack form such as a tentacle, or pseudopod”. It's ambiguous as to whether Aberrant blood+inhuman reach lets you qualify for this.


    Skills and Skill Tricks:
    Balance: You want 5 ranks.
    Bluff: 5 ranks for +2 intimidate.
    Concentration: You want some if you're going ToB or Psychic Warrior
    Intimidate: Max if going intimidate.
    Use Magic Device: Obviously useful
    Use Psionic Device: Equally useful.
    Tumble: Good for moving around without provoking AoO's.

    Skill Tricks: All from Complete Scoundrel.
    Back On Your Feat: Stand as immediate action without AoO
    Collector of Stories: Great with knowledge devotion
    Never Outnumbered: Can hit all enemies within 10 feet of you that can see you, instead of just one, with intimidate to demoralize.
    Nimble Charge: Charge over difficult surfaces.
    Twisted Charge: 1 90 degree corner in a charge.

    Powers:
    Overchannel can help you get there quicker (1 until 8th, then 2 until 15th, then 3 pts)
    Psychic Warrior 1: Expansion. For 1pp, enlarge person that lasts 1 round/level. For 3pp, 10 minutes/level. For 7pp, quicken/or gain 2 size categories, for 9pp, quicken/2 size categories + 10 minutes/level. The major downside here is the dex hit, which you want for AoO's.
    Psychic Warrior 2: Strength of My Enemy: Weapon steals strength, gives it to you as explicitly stacking enhancement bonus.
    Psychic Warrior 2: Reach: +5 reach, swift action, rounds or minutes for augment. Found here:
    https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e

    Spells
    Enlarge Person: +1 size! Yay!
    Alter Self: +1 Size! Yay!
    Repelling Shield: Sorc/Wiz 3. Reflex negates; std action, 1 min/level: after attack is resolved (hit or miss), reflex save or be pushed back 5 feet. Provokes for leaving threatened area. Great lockdown spell.

    Maneuvers,
    Some material copy-pasta from:
    http://community.wizards.com/forum/p...hreads/1073251

    Essentially, there are lots of good to very good maneuvers for lockdown builds. The best of them are lower level, as they can be gained with a lower investment in Tome of Battle. Late level entries can gain excellent maneuvers, too, so a standard melee build might look like: X8/Crusader2 (Iron Guards Glare, Defensive Rebuke, Thicket of Blades). X8/Crusader2/X2 gives you IL7 with Warblade or Swordsage for 4th level maneuvers, and X8/Crusader2/X6 gives you IL9 with Warblade or Swordsage for 5th level maneuvers. You can't get 6th level Warblade/Swordsage maneuvers with just 1 level of either of them, though with a Tome of Battle maneuver progressing prestige class, you can (or even better).

    Defensive Rebuke, (WR3, B): You hit people. Anytime they someone else in the next round, they provoke. Great for forcing people to attack you, not the squishies.
    Iron Guards Glare, (WR1, S): Enemies threatened take -4 to hit allies. Great to make those squishies less squishy.
    Thicket of Blades, (WR3, S): The infamous. X8/Crusader 2 gets it at 10 (+Iron Guards Glare and Defensive Rebuke). Provoke AoO's for 5 foot steps. A core expectation in any lockdown build. Can be blocked with Tumble.
    Press the Advantage (WR5, S): “While you are in this stance, you can take a second 5-foot step immediately after you take one for the round.” Hilariously, this combos with sidestep or evasive reflexes: On every AoO, choose to move 10 feet with your AoO? Top notch combo. The only downside is not using it with Thicket of Blades. If you have Master of Nine levels, you can dual stance these two. Hilarious.
    Rapid Counter (DM5, C): Strike foe that provokes an AoO without wasting an AoO. Or just AoO them twice (or with Double Hit: 3 times.)
    Feigned Opening (SS3, C): When you are the subject of an AoO by a foe, either you gain an AoO in return (if they miss) or your allies gain an AoO (if the foe hits).
    Stalking Shadow (SS5, C): Take a 5' step into a square at the same moment a foe leaves it. He'll then provoke an AoO for leaving your threatened space.
    Dazing Strike (IH5, M): Strike dazes foe for 1 round, Fort DC (15 + STR).
    Disrupting Blow (DM5, M): Target becomes unable to act for 1 round
    Shifting Defense (SS5, S): If a foe misses you, you may take a 5' step. Doing so consumes one of your available AoOs.
    White Raven Hammer (WR8, M): Extra Damage, stuns foe with no save.

    The rest of these are good and provide versatility and useful options to a lockdown build, as do many ToB maneuvers not highlighted here. In particular, moment of perfect mind to deal with your will save is a very, very good idea for every melee build.

    Spoiler: Good, not Lockdown Specific, ToB maneuvers and synnergies
    Show

    Boulder Roll (SD4, M): Make overrun at +4 check. Helps make sure you get to where you need to be.
    Mountain Avalanche (SD5, M): Make a trample attack against enemy. Helps make sure you get to where you need to be.
    Adamantine Hurricane (IH8, M): Make 2 attacks at your highest BAB against each adjacent opponent you threated with a +4 bonus to attack. Use with Warmind's sweeping strike (debatable rules) to attack people adjacent to them as well.
    Mithril Tornado (IH4, M): Attack all adjacent foes with a +2 to attack as a std action. As Adamantine Hurricane.
    Lighting Recovery (IH4, M): If you miss with a melee attack reroll the attack with a +2 bonus. Obviously awesome.
    Step of the Wind (SS1, S): +2 to attacks & +4 to trip/bull rush while you battle those in an area with difficult terrain. If you create difficult terrain (knight, earth devotion, deepstone sentinel), this stance is a free +4 trip. Downside: You want to be in thicket of blades.
    Counter Charge (SS1, C): Make an opposed STR or DEX check to force a creature charging you two squares away from you. It's good for foiling charges, but thicket of blades + trip on the charge movement will pull this off later.
    Shield Counter (DS7, C): Shield bash stops foe’s attack. If you've somehow screwed up and they're attacking, this can solve that problem.
    Manticore Parry (IH6, C): Redirect an attack at you to an adjacent target. If you've some how screwed up and they're attacking, you can help them attack their ally, instead.
    Scorpion Parry (SS6, C): Same as manticore parry.
    Burning Brand (DW2, M): All melee damage is given the fire type and reach is increased by five feet. Only works on your turn, unfortunately, so no good for AoO's.
    Dancing Blades Form (IH5, S): +5 reach only on your turn. Does not stack with other reach enhancing maneuvers. Still no good for AoO's.
    Comet Throw (SS4, M): Trip your foe with a +4 bonus and then throw him a distance based on your check (min 10 feet) dealing 4d6 damage to him.
    Devistating Throw (SS3, M): Trip your foe with a +4 bonus and then throw him a distance based on your check (min 10 feet) dealing 2d6 damage to him.
    Mighty Throw (SS1, M): Trip your foe with a +4 bonus and then throw him 10 feet.
    Soaring Throw (SS5, M): Trip your foe with a +4 bonus and then throw him a distance based on your check (min 20'), dealing 8d6 damage to him.
    Leaping Flame (DW5, C): Teleport next to a foe who just hit you (up to 100' feet away). Good for dealing with archers, which will be more common as a response to all these builds. Good for the metagame.
    Wolf Pack Tactics (TC8, S): Take a 5-foot step with every successful attack.
    Mirrored Pursuit (SS5, C): You can follow an opponent adjacent to you as an immediate action, up to your speed in distance.
    Ghostly Defense (SS8, S): If foes have a miss-chance against you, you can redirect incoming attacks to targets adjacent to you.
    Iron Heart Focus (IH5, C): re-roll any save, must take second roll.
    Iron Heart Surge (IH3, M): End any non-instantaneous condition currently affecting you.
    Wall of Blades (IH2, C): Deflect a ranged attack with an opposed attack roll.
    Moment of Perfect Mind (DM1, C): Concentration check for Will Save
    Action Before Thought (DM2, C): Concentration Check instead of Reflex Save
    Mind Over Body (DM3, C): Concentration Check instead of Fortitude Save


    Items:
    Knockback (+3 Bonus)[MoF] : Fortitude save DC19 versus pushed back 10 feet (if can't move back, fall prone), if fail, second DC 19 versus stun. The DC is too low.

    Sweeping (+1 Bonus)[MoF]: +4 bonus to trip. A bit weak, but if you need a bonus, it's here

    Aptitude Weapon Enhancement (+1 bonus): (Tome of Battle) Discussed earlier.

    Intercepting Weapon Enhancement (Eberron, Forge of War): Free attack when enemy tries to charge/trip/grapple/sunder. Not AoO's.

    Fearsome Armor Enhancement. (5000gp): (Drow of the Underdark): +5 intimidate, and intimidate as a move action. That's a way better action type for rounds where you have to move + attack, but since you have pounce probably, swift is better --- that costs prestige class levels though.

    Greatreach Bracers (MiC): 3/day, swift action for +10ft reach
    ]color=orange]Whirlwind Weapon (MiC):[/color] +1 bonus, slashing weapons only; 3/day whirlwind attack against any enemy within reach. Hilarious, but it's super limited.

    Silthilar Flexible Spine Graft graft (Lords of Madness, page 216); qualifies you for extended reach (savage species, +5 feet of reach). Unfortunately, it costs a brutal 91000gp, but gives +4 racial initiative.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Builds
    Spoiler: Human Fighter 20: Trip, Reach, and intimidate optimization
    Show

    Str: 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 8 = 32 point buy. Level ups in strength. 5 skills per level.
    Level 1 Feat: Aberrant Blood
    Flaw 1 Feat: Inhuman Reach
    Flaw 2 Feat: Willing Deformity
    Level 1 Fighter Feat: Combat Expertise
    Human Feat: Deformity: Tall
    Level 2 Fighter Feat: Improved Trip

    Your 15 foot reach is doubled to 30 with a reach weapon, and you have improved trip.

    Level 3 Feat: Mage Slayer
    Level 3 Zhentarim Fighter Feat: Skill Focus: Intimidate
    Level 4 Fighter Feat: Combat Reflexes
    Level 5 Zhentarim Fighter: Intimidate lasts 24 hours on social situations.
    Level 6 Fighter Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
    Level 6 Feat: Evasive Reflexes
    Level 8 Fighter Feat: Power Attack
    Level 9 Feat: Stand Still
    Level 9 Zhentarim Fighter: Swift action to intimidate.
    Level 10 Fighter Feat: Open1

    Your 15 foot reach is doubled to 30 with a reach weapon, and you have improved trip, combat reflexes, and evasive reflexes, plus mage slayer, power attack, stand still. You also intimidate as a swift action.

    Level 12 Fighter Feat: Trade for Counter Attack
    Level 12 Feat: Knock-down
    Level 14 Fighter Feat: Robilar's Gambit
    Level 15 Feat: Imperious Command
    Level 16 Fighter Feat: Trade for Overpowering Attack

    Your 15 foot reach is doubled to 30 with a reach weapon, and you have improved trip, combat reflexes, and evasive reflexes, plus mage slayer, power attack, stand still, and knock-down. You also intimidate as a swift action. Your combat routine looks like this:

    Round 1: Intimidate everyone as a swift action. Make a single overpowering attack that is also a counter attack. Deal double damage. Turn Robilar's on. With your huge reach, you get AoO's for people attacking you, casting, moving other than 5 foot steps while in threatened area, etc.

    Whenever anyone attacks you, you get an AoO from Robilars and a counter attack from Counter attack. You can trade 1 AoO to evasive reflexes them and avoid the rest of their full attack, and all your AoO's deal double damage --- which also trips them using knock-down, which than can be followed up by another double damage trip.

    So, if an enemy attacks you once, you can Attack 2 times, trip, attack a 3rd time, all for double damage. Or sacrifice one attack for a 5 foot step dodge.

    Level 18 Fighter Feat: Open Feat
    Level 18 Feat: Open Feat
    Level 20 Fighter Feat: Defensive Sweep --- it's weak without Thicket of Blades, but hey. Why not. You have the feats for it.

    3 open feats here; 2 fighter, one general. Martial Study: Something prerequisity, Martial Study: Defensive Rebuke and Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades is one option. Using an aptitude weapon and going Improved Bull Rush --- Weapon Focus Greatclub --- Three Mountain style is another. Or Dodge-Mobility-Elusive Target.

    The big downer is how many good and important feats aren't fighter bonus feats. You could put dungeon crasher in, but there is a glut of things you want to come online early and a surfeit of things that come online late.

    Variants:
    Going Feat Rogue 2 gets more skills, reflex saves, evasion + 1 more fighter feat for -0.5 or -1 BAB
    Going Psychic Warrior 2 gets +1 feat, psionic powers for -0.5 or -1 BAB
    Going Clositered Cleric 1/Ordained Champion 1 (War, Knowledge, +1, +1, trade the last two powers for feats) gets +1 feat, for -0.5 or -1 BAB.
    Going Crusader 2 at 8 lets defensive sweep be a more useful feat; gets thicket of blades + defensive rebuke.
    Going Barbarian 1 gets you pounce + Whirling Frenzy. Barbarian 2 can get you trip without Combat Expertise (takes Karmic Strike offline), but you don't squeeze it in anyways.


    Spoiler: Build: Because Bears!!! Includes hilarious image
    Show

    [image]http://s393.photobucket.com/user/Lushmoss/media/Bear_zpsbd30e422.png.html[/image]
    Goliath Str 16+4 racial, Dex 16-2 racial, Con 14+2 Racial, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 8
    Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior2/Warmind2/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 3/Bear Warrior +4/Warmind+3 (+4 if you can use LA buyoff)

    Two claws and a bite. Use a mouth pick weapon, trade the bite away. If you can use a mouthpick guisarm or spiked chain, things get crazy, eventually finishing with 50 feet of reach.

    This is a bit of rules ambiguity here: the bear warrior gains the bear form's physical qualities (including ....and reach) --- but it shouldn't invalidate your feats, so hopefully you still get to benefit from them.

    Level 1 Feat: Aberrant Blood
    Flaw 1 Feat: Inhuman Reach
    Flaw 2 Feat: Extra Rage
    Level 1 Barbarian: Whirling Frenzy 1/day Spirit Lion Totem (Pounce) (Don't use mountain rage because bear rage replaces it; but gains the whirling frenzy bonus attack anyways)
    Level 2: Wolf Totem Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) Trade Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip
    Level 3: Fighter Bonus Feat: Power Attack
    Level 3 Feat: Knock-down
    Level 4 Fighter Bonus Feat: Dungeoncrasher.
    Level 5: Psychic Warrior Bonus Feat: Improved Bull Rush
    Level 6: Psychic Warrior Bonus Feat: Knockback

    You have 10ft of reach. When you hit someone with power attack, you trigger a bull rush --- if you win, you Dungeoncrash them. When you hit someone for 10+ damage, you also trigger a trip --- if you win, improved trip (arguably) gives a free trip. So each hit is damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher-trip-hit.

    Level 6 Feat: Combat Reflexes
    Level 7: Warmind 1
    Level 8: Warmind 2
    Bear Warrior 1 Level 9 Feat: Evasive Reflexes

    You can turn into a bear, and you have the expansion power. You can make your 10ft reach expand to 15 feet of reach, and remember, each time you hit, it's damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher-trip-hit. But even better, with a mouthpick weapon (greatsword), a +1 enhancement from Lords of Maddness, your attack pattern with +8/+3 BAB and whirling frenzy is +6/+6/+1/+1/+1 on BAB alone. Add in your insane strength (20 base+2 level+2 item+8 bear+2 chain of superiority = +34 strength) and you're looking at a series of mean hits...each of which are damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher-trip-hit.

    Warshaper 3: Level 12 Feat: Large and In Charge
    Warshaper 3 gives: Heavy Fortification, infinite natural attacks (whoops), +4 Str and Con, and +5 ft of reach.

    You've got 15 ft of reach (20 if you expand), and a whirling frenzy attack pattern of +8/+8/+3/+3/+3 (without any modifiers) before you abuse the heck out of warshaper. When they try to move through your reach, you get an AoO and Large and In charge triggers: You attack, getting your standard damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher(if walls)-trip-hit, plus the ability to “force the opponent back to the 5-foot space it was in before it provoked the attack of opportunity.” How does that work with knockback? Here's my guess...

    Knockback triggers first, instituting a normal bull rush. You hit him into a wall like you want to (because dungeon crasher), and then he bounces off that wall, back into the square he started in, a little bit confused, and possibly tripped (because knock-down).

    Bear Warrior 4...Level 15 Feat: Shock Trooper: A 3rd attack based on BAB and an excellent tactical feat. All 3 options are great: Directed Bull Rush to stack enemies on top of each other, Domino rush...just gets crazy.

    All your attacks are damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher(if walls)-trip-hit. But Domino rush also lets you make a free trip attempt against a target you bullrush someone into.

    So Attacking A---> Bullrush into B--->An extra free trip on A (you get to try twice; once from Domino Rush and once from Knock-down), and a free trip on B. Once B is down, you get a free hit from improved trip...which gives you damage-->Bullrush-->dungeoncrasher. If you can bullrush into a 3rd target, the loop triggers infinitely, so long as positioning is correct.

    The great thing is that none of these are AoO's. Tragically, bull rushing specifically doesn't give you AoO's, so you can't use evasive reflexes to reposition and set up the battle field. Life's not perfect.


    Level 16: While in brown bear form, he gains a +16 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a +8 bonus to Constitution. +4str/+4 con from warshaper, and +2/+2 from Warmind. With 20 base + 4 level + 6 item you're looking at a strength of: 20+16+4+2+4+6= +52 strength. Your con is a meagre 16 base + 8 bear + 4 warshaper + 2 warmind + 6 item = +36 constitution. No big deal.

    And that's before Strength of My Enemy.
    Level 18 Feat: Extra Rage --- 3 day goes to 5 day.

    Warmind 5: The Finish (Warmind6 if you get LA buyoff): Sweeping Strike wins.

    17 or 18 BAB, 2 natural attacks +whirling frenzy + whatever warshaper gives you (who knows!), crazy strength and con (decent dex), and reach of 15 ft (default), 20 or 25 ft with expansion.
    Each attack is damage-bullrush-dungeoncrasher(if walls)-trip-hit, but now you get to apply that to two squares side by side. Expand (you're looking at strength of 56ish in the end) and make 7 attacks – each of which can be on two adjacent squares. Charge and use directed bullrush on round 1 to pile enemies as side by side as you can (put 4-5 in two squares, side by side), then the next round use sweeping strike to make your 7+ attacks on every last one of them --- with damage, bull rush, dungeon crasher, trip, hit (the saddest thing is you can only trip them once per round). Use the bull rushes to push them into their enemies, and get free trips on them, too, thanks to Domino Rush.

    Warmind 6/Psychic Warrior 2 gives you the manifester level you need to Augment Expansion to give you two size boosts, incidentally --- being a bear with 25 feet of reach. Bracers of Great Reach (MiC) make it 35 foot reach, 3 rounds/day as a swift action. Hows that for Bear?



    Boomerang Daze Build:
    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...?topic=12015.0


    Spoiler: Staggering Strike Scarlet Corsair
    Show

    The core idea here is to get staggering strikes on AoO's using Scarlet Corsair's free action feint and group fake – out. Staggered + tripped = out of the combat for a round, basically...except casters which will just nuke you while lying on the ground as per usual (but provoke an AoO for it due to mage slayer, so maybe not?)

    Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2/Barbarian 1/Scarlet Corsair+1/Crusader+2/Scarlet Corsair+6/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ordained Champion 1/Rogue +1/One last level

    Barbarian is in there for pounce. Doesn't have to be. Rogue is for sneak attack dice, Fighter/Psychic warrior for feats, crusader for Thicket of Blades + Defensive rebuke. Cloistered cleric/ordained champion for feats. Pretty much any part of this can be dropped/reworked to pleasure; this is just an example/sample.

    Str: 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 8 = 32 point buy. Level ups in strength.
    Level 1 Feat: Aberrant Blood
    Flaw 1 Feat: Inhuman Reach
    Flaw 2 Feat: Willing Deformity
    Human Feat: Deformity: Tall
    Level 3 Feat: Mage Slayer
    Level 3 Fighter 1 Feat: Combat Expertise
    Level 4 Fighter 2 Feat: Improved Trip
    Level 5Psychic Warrior 1 Feat: Combat Reflexes
    Level 6 Psychic Warrior 2 Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
    Level 6 Feat: Evasive Reflexes
    Level 9 Feat: Staggering Strike
    Level 12 Feat: Power Attack
    Level 15 Feat: Stand Still
    Level 18 Feat: Knock-Down
    Level 18 Ordained Champion Fighter Feat 1: Robilar's Gambit
    Level 18 Ordained Champion Fighter Feat 2: Defensive Sweep (BAB15; it works)

    Starting at level 12, you can feint as a free action. With group fake-out, you can leave a full group flat-footed: “This attack must be made on or before your next turn.” Anyone you don't hit (and stagger and trip) on your turn you can stagger and trip on the AoO, since AoO's are before your next turn.

    You get 4d6 innate sneak attack; the last level can be +1d6 sneak attack from Spellthief or something. At 10th level, your stagger DC is somewhere around 25-30. At 20th level, your stagger DC is probably 60-70+.



    Ambiguous Rulings

    There is a debate in this thread about Knock-Down.

    Normal Trip is: Touch attack - Trip
    Improved Trip: Touch attack - Trip - Attack
    Knock-Down is: Attack (10+ damage) - Trip - XXXXXXXXXX?

    The XXXXXXXXXXXX? Is a debate about whether Knock-Down provides the improved trip bonus. Some say yes, some say no. If yes, take the feat immediately. If no, think about taking the feat.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Alright, and this a reserved post.

    Anyone have suggestions/ideas/corrections/etcetera?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Special mention
    Dragonborn Goliath Goliath Barbarian

    Loses Powerful Build, still becomes Large when in rage (regaining the benefit of Powerful Build)


    Scarlet Corsair (Prestige Class)
    30ft AoE demoralizing for intimidate lockdown
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-05-02 at 07:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Boomerang Daze is a good lockdown feat. It can affect multiple people, daze is hard to be immune to and the fortitude save is essentially arbitrarily large if you optimize slightly well. The problem with it is that it requires two feats unless if you’re one of two specific races and it does need to hit every turn but hopefully you will be accurate enough it hit with it.
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Special mention
    Dragonborn Goliath Goliath Barbarian

    Loses Powerful Build, still becomes Large when in rage (regaining the benefit of Powerful Build)
    Dragonborn explicitly do not lose Powerful Build. They do lose the jumping and climbing stuff, though.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    2 Levels of monk is probably more in the green/blue territory if you include ACFs between martial, UA fighting styles, and invisible fist

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Classes/Prestige Classes/Feats that encourage opponents to target a particular person, whether PC or fellow adversary, might be considered to be using a sort of lockdown, as well.
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Classes/Prestige Classes/Feats that encourage opponents to target a particular person, whether PC or fellow adversary, might be considered to be using a sort of lockdown, as well.
    If you have any in mind I'd be happy to hear about them --- I'm usually a caster guy. This just came out of my figuring out my build for the most recent iron chef.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Adverb View Post
    Dragonborn explicitly do not lose Powerful Build. They do lose the jumping and climbing stuff, though.
    Oops. I was not expected to find that hidden under "Size:"

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikeren View Post
    If you have any in mind I'd be happy to hear about them --- I'm usually a caster guy. This just came out of my figuring out my build for the most recent iron chef.
    Several Maneuvers from ToB increase the AC of your allies relative to your own, and explicitly make enemies aware of this fact. This functions to encourage enemies to attack you.

    The Knight has an ability similar to this.

    Goad, the Feat, can theoretically draw some aggro.
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Maybe it is just my interpretation, but isn't the Medium to Large size change in stats only applicable to creatures being enhanced in size through HD?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Half Giant and Half Minotaur specifically call out that they increase the size of the creature the template is applied to if the base creature is smaller than Large.

    They also call out to adjust the creatures stats according to the table for monster size increases.
    Last edited by Azoth; 2014-05-02 at 09:37 PM.


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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    Half Giant and Half Minotaur specifically call out that they increase the size of the creature the template is applied to if the base creature is smaller than Large.

    They also call out to adjust the creatures stats according to the table for monster size increases.
    Just cracked 313 open, I retract my statement.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Some corrections and additions:

    You've got "Knockdown" listed repeatedly, and 3.0 Sword and Fist as its source. The actual name is Knock-Down and its latest 3.5 version is here. 3.0 sources are overridden by 3.5 updates. And yes, it works as attack + trip + attack again, if you satisfy the conditions at each step.

    Powerful Build specifies exactly 3 benefits, and being treated as Large for feat or PrC qualifications is not one of them. There are Goliath-specific exceptions in a bunch of Races of Stone feats, but those wouldn't even benefit any Half-Giants (who also have Powerful Build).

    The Aptitude weapon enhancement specifies a pattern of applicable feats (3 examples + "or the like"), all of which share a common characteristic:
    Choose one type of weapon.
    Feats which don't have that characteristic (example: High Sword, Low Axe) aren't "or the like".

    Thicket of Blades can be ignored by someone using Tumble, despite FAQ nonsense to the contrary. ToB is effective against 5' steps and Withdraw, though.

    Snap Kick works with any enabling melee attack. AoOs are melee attacks, so Snap Kick functions as stated.

    Bull Rush pushes an opponent "straight back", not straight down. (D&D has no facing, so being prone doesn't put opponents on their backs. [It's just as likely to put them face down, which would mean you could only push them "back" by being able to approach them through the floor.] Without facing, "back" still refers to retrograde movement along the 2D combat grid.) Making an opponent prone doesn't provide any special advantage with Dungeon Crasher Fighter ACF. It doesn't provide any special hindrance with Dungeon Crasher, either: you can't push them down into the floor, but you can still push opponents back into a wall even while they're prone.

    Imperious Command has no special interaction with Zhentarim Soldier Extended Intimidation. The 24 hour benefit only triggers when the Zhentarim Soldier departs. You don't get "swift action intimidates that last 24 hours!" unless you leave the combat and re-approach the intimidated foes in a different encounter. Imperious Command is also specific in its duration stipulation: you get one round of cowering in fear before the shaken round.

    Aberrant Blood (Lords of Madness) only applies to Humanoid creatures. However, Mourning Mutate (Dragon # 359, page 110) can substitute for Aberration Blood for any feat requirements, so non-Humanoids have a way in. If you choose "flexible limbs" for Aberration Blood or "Unnaturally Flexible" for Mourning Mutate you'll qualify for Extended Reach (Savage Species). Another way to qualify for Extended Reach is with a Silthilar Flexible Spine graft (Lords of Madness, page 216); it's quite expensive, though.

    You don't have Dwarven Defender listed for PrCs. This is almost always a bad class. However, a build focused on extreme reach and tripping can be surprisingly effective. Half-Minotaur Dwarf + Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach + Extended Reach + adamantine spiked chain yields a 40' radius of control from the Dwarf's position. Add Steadfast Boots (Magic Item Compendium, pages 138-139) so the Dwarf need never worry about chargers or losing the chain. Casting a cylindrical Wind Wall to fend off ranged attacks would also be a good idea.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    You might find some useful stuff in my Melee Debuff Miniguide. I noticed you got a lot of the good ones already.
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Although you gave the caveat "If your DM rules," I think it stands to point out that Knockdown doesn't work that way with Improved Trip by RAW. Improved Trip says you can make an attack "as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt," which, since that is all the attack granted by Knockdown is good for, means you don't make any attack.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Some corrections and additions:

    Imperious Command has no special interaction with Zhentarim Soldier Extended Intimidation. The 24 hour benefit only triggers when the Zhentarim Soldier departs. You don't get "swift action intimidates that last 24 hours!" unless you leave the combat and re-approach the intimidated foes in a different encounter. Imperious Command is also specific in its duration stipulation: you get one round of cowering in fear before the shaken round.
    Additional detail:
    Zhentarim Soldier Extended Intimidation explicitly cannot be used for demoralization.
    Imperious Command only modifies demoralization.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    Although you gave the caveat "If your DM rules," I think it stands to point out that Knockdown doesn't work that way with Improved Trip by RAW. Improved Trip says you can make an attack "as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt," which, since that is all the attack granted by Knockdown is good for, means you don't make any attack.
    While I extend no RAW authority to the FAQ, it occasionally is useful for some explanations.
    The Improved Trip feat applies any time you trip a foe in melee combat, even if that trip comes from a special power.
    ...
    The Improved Trip feat description says that you get an extra attack after a successful trip attempt “as though you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.” That, however, is just a shorthand way of explaining what part of your normal attack routine you use for the extra attack; it’s not meant to imply that you enter some kind of strange time warp when you make trip attacks.
    The phrase “as though you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt” just means there are no iterative attack penalties associated with the bonus trip attack.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2014-05-02 at 10:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    While I extend no RAW authority to the FAQ, it occasionally is useful for some explanations. The phrase “as though you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt” just means there are no iterative attack penalties associated with the bonus trip attack.
    Read it again:
    That, however, is just a shorthand way of explaining what part of your normal attack routine you use for the extra attack;
    This part of the attack routine cannot be used for a melee attack; it is reserved for trips only. FAQ provides no contradictory evidence.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Deophaun View Post
    This part of the attack routine cannot be used for a melee attack; it is reserved for trips only.
    It doesn't say anything that remotely resembles "reserved for trips only". No alteration to "what part of your normal attack routine you use for the extra attack" means that if you're making the trip attack as a standard action, the bonus attack afforded by Improved Trip doesn't have to wait until you use another action which allows an attack; it's included with that one standard action. Similarly, if you're making the trip attack as part of a full attack, the bonus attack isn't going to be at a -5 penalty as with other iterative attacks; it will instead have exactly the same AB (with the same associated penalties, if any) as the trip attack, and the next iterative attack after that will be exactly as if you hadn’t taken that bonus attack following the trip attempt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Improved Trip
    If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knock-Down
    Benefit: Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.
    With Knock-Down you are in melee combat, and you make a trip attack against your opponent. If you trip your opponent in melee combat with Improved Trip, you get a melee attack against that opponent without alteration to what part of your attack routine you're using for that attack (i.e., no extra actions required and no expenditure of iterative attacks in a full attack).

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    With Knock-Down you are in melee combat, and you make a trip attack against your opponent. If you trip your opponent in melee combat with Improved Trip, you get a melee attack against that opponent without alteration to what part of your attack routine you're using for that attack (i.e., no extra actions required and no expenditure of iterative attacks in a full attack).
    But you are arguing that you do alter that part of the attack routine by allowing you to do something other than trip with that action. Neither RAW nor the FAQ support that reading.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Thanks for all the commentary! Greatly appreciated. I'll work on fixes presently.

    Also, is this the most active remaining optimization forum? I've been getting back into things and everywhere else seems mostly toast.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    While I extend no RAW authority to the FAQ, it occasionally is useful for some explanations. The phrase “as though you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt” just means there are no iterative attack penalties associated with the bonus trip attack.
    Given your earlier dismissal of the FAQ, in this very thread, as a valid rules authority, citing the FAQ on this point is either curious, inconsistent, or both. Its explanations either have authority, or they don't.
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Given your earlier dismissal of the FAQ, in this very thread, as a valid rules authority, citing the FAQ on this point is either curious, inconsistent, or both. Its explanations either have authority, or they don't.
    The FAQ has no more authority than any of us posting here (and perhaps deserves less). However, I thought the explanation in this particular case expressed the facts of the RAW fairly well. It's a freely available resource, so there's no point in ignoring it when it turns out to be cogent. As always, it's necessary to check the actual rules (as you can see I did with citations from both Knock-Down and Improved Trip) to verify any FAQ answer.

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Nice guide; small typo
    Lion Totem from Complete Champion should be Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    You should mention knight of the raven from expedition to castle ravenloft. At 5th level you can make 1 target provoke AoO on a 5ft step.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Alright, I've worked in edits, corrections, and comments. In particular, my one remaining question is:

    Thicket of Blades can be ignored by someone using Tumble, despite FAQ nonsense to the contrary. ToB is effective against 5' steps and Withdraw, though.
    What blocks tumble? Is there any way to prevent someone from tumbling to avoid AoO's?

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    Default Re: Quick, Nobody Move: The Lockdown Handbook

    Looks like straight 3.5, with no PF commentary. That's OK, if specified in the title. I was hoping to learn some new PF tricks, though, drat.
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