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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Abd al-Azrad's Avatar

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    Default Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Howdy all,

    I've recently taken an interest in the dark side of magic (oh I hope that sentence triggers some FBI red flag). I seek to create an NPC party of necromancers to let loose in a Pathfinder sandbox world against my players.

    The trick to it is that I want this to be as close to the standard 4-player party (arcanist, priest, skillmonkey, meat shield) that I can get it. Also, while necromancers all share a general source of their power and a theme, I'd like these guys to be quite varied and unpredictable in their methods, strategies, etc. Basically, they would form as close to an NPC Evil Opposites party as one can get, but shrouded in the veil of death magic.

    My initial thoughts would be a Necromancy-specialist wizard, a cleric (really just straight-up) with a solid investment in negative channeling, a Dirge-singer bard, and... something? A Spirit-totem Barbarian? That's a fairly underwhelming option, but I suppose I can settle for it if I don't hear any better ideas.

    General combat strategy would involve throwing 5-6HD / level / person of skeletons at their enemies because... well of course. Follow that with global buffs from the Bard and Cleric, targeted debuffs from the Bard and Arcanist, and the front-liner moving up through the carpet of undead to deliver surgical attacks on anyone that can stand against that kind of force. PROFIT.

    Thoughts on the characters? I'm particularly stumped about the front-liner, but there's also the question about how to make sure each of the characters fills its own role without stepping the each others' toes.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

    Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Possibly a Blighter for your Divine caster? Import in from 3.5 or use the Pathfinder one, they're two entirely different things.

    EDIT: Perhaps you should put this in the 3.x subforum?
    Last edited by Socksy; 2014-05-09 at 07:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    All things considered, the guy whose character attacked a gazebo may have actually had a point...
    Quote Originally Posted by Anlashok View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    ban the problem spells and the problem classes. not the whole book.
    So.. Keep the bard?
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    The only thing worse than a Beholder with an anti-magic cone is a Beholder without the anti-magic cone.
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    Baaa, I can think! Baaa, I can't see in the dark!

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Don't know about pathfinder specially, but for the melee meatshield(undead are fo that) damage dealer, you could look at the various death knigth/ unholy warriors/ disciple of dispater/ crusader (of evil gods)/tyranny paladin etc... If some of them are more of the general evil thing, I guess others are more linked with undead especially. But any of those would fit better than a barbarian I think.

    (Some of those must exist in pathfinder right? Else just export from 3.5/3.0.)



    Edit: Does Dread necromancer still exist in pathfinder? Heard it was quite a cool class (even if not to the level of a true wizard).
    Last edited by Synar; 2014-05-09 at 08:12 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Abd al-Azrad's Avatar

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Socksy: Blighter (PF) is interesting. Kinda combos a weird Druid spell list with necromancy and the Antipaladin Touch of Corruption.

    Synar: Yeah the way PF works is it lets you play fast and loose with your class abilities, but it also makes most of your class abilities class-level-dependent. So multiclassing, dipping and PrCing are less critical options for creating a specific build. This kinda seduced me away from 3.x, I felt it was a more elegant system.

    Re: Dread Necromancer, I'm not really sure how to replicate that, or even if one should. Was it the half-divine half-arcane caster type with extra minion control powers? It's kinda an interesting idea, but I imagine it would be better as a solo necromancer in a party, doing every necro-role kinda weakly, rather than filling a necro-niche.

    It is feeling more and more like I should stick in an antipaladin-type as the melee dude. But how to make him most necromantic? Could I get one a vampire unicorn mount or something?
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

    Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Half-Undead or The undead equivalent of Planetouched any good for your Tyranny Paladin/Vampire Unicorn/whatever?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    All things considered, the guy whose character attacked a gazebo may have actually had a point...
    Quote Originally Posted by Anlashok View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    ban the problem spells and the problem classes. not the whole book.
    So.. Keep the bard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Story View Post
    The only thing worse than a Beholder with an anti-magic cone is a Beholder without the anti-magic cone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Baaa, I can think! Baaa, I can't see in the dark!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Azrad View Post
    Re: Dread Necromancer, I'm not really sure how to replicate that, or even if one should. Was it the half-divine half-arcane caster type with extra minion control powers? It's kinda an interesting idea, but I imagine it would be better as a solo necromancer in a party, doing every necro-role kinda weakly, rather than filling a necro-niche.
    Not exactly. It's pure arcane, and has a bunch of other abilities, like an at-will negative energy touch attack. It does have a cool ability that, at level 8, dramatically expands the ability to control undead. Makes the HD pool (4+Cha) per level, and since they're Cha-based casters, they get more undead than anyone's really comfortable with.

    I'm more familiar with 3.5, but I'm currently trying to convince my group to play a group of necromancers. Cleric, Necromancer-wizard, Dread Necromancer, and Death Master. So far, no takers aside from myself.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Azrad View Post
    It is feeling more and more like I should stick in an antipaladin-type as the melee dude.
    That's more or less what I meant. I guess I was not clear. (And I do not like dipping either-feel like it's a bit too much powergaming.)

    But necro can also be fluff. He does not need to have any necromantic power to be a convincing addition to the party.
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    Give him an armor made out of bone, let him wear a skull or/and ride an undead mount. Or just let him be the mute guy in the black armor worshipping death only. Or a mysteious figure without a face wearing a black hood and screaming in a tongue long forgotten while swinging its guisarme. Or he is actually a frenzied barbarian covered in scar and cut dripping bloods, who believes pain and blood give power. Or any theme that fits with the rest of the party. Maybe if he is going to be an antipaladin, some kind of refined aristocrate holy warrior making ominous prayers (to the god of death/undeath?).


    If the party is high level enough, maybe a vampire?

    Also, that is one cool pc quasi full necro party. Not sure if it can help you, but hey.

    Finally, asking a mod to move the thread might be a good idea if you want suggestions from competent people. (Such as people who've actually played pathfinder before)
    Good luck!

    EDIT:Kind of ninja'ed. Also, dread necro get fear aura. Not to neglect. Even if It's irrelevant as not pathfinder =).

    EDIT:Found this, not sure if it is any better than simply a wizard. Especially since it would need tweaks and refluffing for evil npcs.
    Last edited by Synar; 2014-05-09 at 04:59 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Abd al-Azrad's Avatar

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Synar View Post
    That's more or less what I meant. I guess I was not clear. (And I do not like dipping either-feel like it's a bit too much powergaming.)
    It came through clear as day. PF only seems to have one class and a few weird PrCs that do this job... but the Antipaladin does the role really well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synar View Post
    Also, that is one cool pc quasi full necro party. Not sure if it can help you, but hey.
    Eeexcellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synar View Post
    Finally, asking a mod to move the thread might be a good idea if you want suggestions from competent people. (Such as people who've actually played pathfinder before)
    Good luck!
    I will feel rather foolish if there is a PF-specific sub-forum here in the OotS boards I did not see. *headdesk*
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

    Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    There is a subforum for 3.0/3.5/PF :3 It's near the top when you click into the RPG forums.

    Perhaps your antipaladin should dig out the 3.x rules for sacrifices?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconium View Post
    All things considered, the guy whose character attacked a gazebo may have actually had a point...
    Quote Originally Posted by Anlashok View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sideswipe View Post
    ban the problem spells and the problem classes. not the whole book.
    So.. Keep the bard?
    Quote Originally Posted by Story View Post
    The only thing worse than a Beholder with an anti-magic cone is a Beholder without the anti-magic cone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Baaa, I can think! Baaa, I can't see in the dark!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    For their melee guy, how about a Knight of the Sepulcher Antipaladin. For extra points, make him some variety of Dhampir. For extra extra points, give him the Blood Drinker, Blood Feaster, Blood Salvage feat chain to show he's fully embraced his heritage.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    You could also consider the Undead Lord alternate class feature for your cleric. I don't know how well it holds up against standard cleric (You give up a domain for a little extra undead-ness). Then, for fighters, there's always the Death Knight (or Graveknight, as pathfinder calls them) I second the thought of vampire for your skillmonkey, but... if you want to do something a bit more interesting with your arcanist, try a Summoner with the Shadow Caller alternate feature. It lets you call up shadows, and then with Spell Focus: Necromancy you can take Skeleton Summoner feat on top of that and you can call up an ARMY of bones...which your cleric can take and buff all to hell.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Abd al-Azrad's Avatar

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayd View Post
    You could also consider the Undead Lord alternate class feature for your cleric. I don't know how well it holds up against standard cleric (You give up a domain for a little extra undead-ness). Then, for fighters, there's always the Death Knight (or Graveknight, as pathfinder calls them) I second the thought of vampire for your skillmonkey, but... if you want to do something a bit more interesting with your arcanist, try a Summoner with the Shadow Caller alternate feature. It lets you call up shadows, and then with Spell Focus: Necromancy you can take Skeleton Summoner feat on top of that and you can call up an ARMY of bones...which your cleric can take and buff all to hell.
    Undead Lord is nicely flavourful, but the big trade-off in my view is giving up a domain for an extra 1HD/level skeleton. Skeletal hordes are a delight, but losing a domain for one more, fairly weak minion is a painful trade.

    Adding undead templates to the characters is an idea I hadn't initially considered, mainly because in my view, a necromancer has a tendency towards dominance over an undead being. If the party's fighter was a vampire, he'd be terrifying in melee, but he'd have to work pretty hard to stand out as anything beyond an extra-tough minion.

    That said, Graveknight is a pretty bloody powerful template.

    Really enjoying the Shadow Caller idea. That opens up a whole other type of undead goons, and gives the Summoner a lot of control over her incorporeal spawn-creating undead. I think it's technically a step down in terms of power (from a base Summoner or Wizard) but it fits the theme and brings a lot of unusual powers to the table. Plus those high-level summons are pretty darn cool. A-thankee for pointing that one out!
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

    Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Necromancer and "primarily hits things with sticks" don't mix well, which is one part of the problem you're running into.

    The other is that between a Cleric that's built for hitting things and a mass of undead (and you should really port in Requiem or adapt it for PF if there's no in-system option for bolstering their undead with the bard's performances), you don't need a dedicated frontliner role and insisting upon one just contorts it unnaturally.

    So the question instead is what would go into the fourth slot with a debuff-focused wizard, a necromancer cleric, and the bard & still have the ability to necromance.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Couldn't the meathshield just be a regular fighter / hunter who interested in necromancy? Maybe he has a vital question for his dead brother or a similar non-evil reason? Or maybe he is evil and the necromancers were just looking for a capable meatshield? Also, I circle of necromancers that doesn't consist solely of magic users might be a nice surprise.
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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    I'd contend that often Necromancers tend to become undead themselves and are not just limited to those who have an interest in dominating the undead while mortal.

    As a path to power and progression, it unnaturally adds in holding onto that power for longer than a mortal lifespan allows.

    And allows a quick and dirty way to progress the necromancers after any defeats or deaths by having them upgraded by the right undead template.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn4 View Post
    Couldn't the meathshield just be a regular fighter / hunter who interested in necromancy? Maybe he has a vital question for his dead brother or a similar non-evil reason? Or maybe he is evil and the necromancers were just looking for a capable meatshield? Also, I circle of necromancers that doesn't consist solely of magic users might be a nice surprise.
    Other than an Alchemist or Psionic character, how on earth would you be necromancing then without tapping into explicit magic one way or another? Then again, Psianimate Dead would be a fun little twist. As would adapting or porting in something like the Redeemer of Regrets for a Necromancer vs. Necromancer introduction to the rival/nemesis party.

    Now if we want a necromantic cult or whatever, sure, you're going to have non-necromancer support personnel on the table, and something more along those lines may suit the OP's desires a bit better than limiting solely to necromancers themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Why do you need a meatshield PC when you have minions to tank/deal all the damage for you?

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken View Post
    Why do you need a meatshield PC when you have minions to tank/deal all the damage for you?
    You really like the Unit template and want to have it lead a unit of undead?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Have you thought about any 3rd party materials?

    Super Genius / Rogue Genius games has some cool necromantic options with the Death Knight and Death Mage. Death Knight gets undead resistances and a corrupting touch ability that heals himself and other undead, Death Mage gets his choice of a variety of "Pale Roads" which give access to cool abilities, fetishes, and Unbreathing companions.

    If you have access to the new Gods of the Inner Sea, they've got Boons for the goddess of undeath (Urgathoa, I think?), that can combine with the PrCs presented there to create a necromantic character for pretty much any role.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd al-Azrad View Post
    Thoughts on the characters? I'm particularly stumped about the front-liner, but there's also the question about how to make sure each of the characters fills its own role without stepping the each others' toes.
    A dhampir Antipaladin is about as good as it gets with straight PF stuff. Many 3.X era supplements came and went focusing heavily on necromancy (including such fine things as Ghostwalk and Libris Mortis, as well as more necromancy-friendly settings like Eberron and the Scarred Lands), and it's likely that Paizo doesn't want to spend a bunch of time going where darn near everyone has gone before.

    Another option might be to go straight Fighter, and blow past dhampir and allow the Fighter to be an actual undead, perhaps using Necropolitan stats or 'monster levels' from Libris Mortis or something and start with 'one level' worth of ghoul or wight and increase his 'monster level' or his Fighter level with each level up.

    Older 3.X and 3rd party stuff includes;

    the Scarred Land settings Unfailing (warriors who serve a group of non-evil necromancers, and are infused with necromantic power as part of their service) from Hollowfaust: City of Necromancers. (Along with having six different PrCs devoted to necromancer wizards, one to necromantic sorcerers, one to necromantic bards, one to shadow-touched rogues and even one for ghost-whispering *Paladins,* the Scarred Lands is great for necromantic flavor.)

    the Death Knight, from Secret College of Necromancy (from Green Ronin).

    the Moon Wraith Adepts (fighters adopting a necromancy-enhanced martial style taught by ghosts of a fallen empire seeking to regain its stature), from Arcana: Societies of Magic (also from Green Ronin).

    a necromancer-y version of the Unholy Warrior, from the Unholy Warrior's Handbook, choosing from among the 'Domains' of Corruption, Darkness, Disease, Gluttony, Horror, Pain and / or Undead, could also fit the bill (Green Ronin, again, who else?).

    The Eberron setting might well have something adaptable as well, from the ancestor-worshipping elves, or the necromancy-friendly warrior nation whose name I totally forget. (Karnath? Rulers name, Kaius?)

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    For the meathshield: A Synthesist Summoner (probabl dhampir) whos Eidolon looks like an undea monstrosity. since you are the dm you could probably homebrew an archetype making the Eidolon actually undead.

    An Aberrant Aegis. Modyfing your own body with tentacles and stuff. Again just put on an undead base

    A Dread would also fit the group really good but isn't really a "meathshield" ... would make the encounters more interesting though


    Otherwise the Antipaladin isn't a bad idea even though somewhat too bland for my feeling.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Set View Post
    The Eberron setting might well have something adaptable as well, from the ancestor-worshipping elves, or the necromancy-friendly warrior nation whose name I totally forget. (Karnath? Rulers name, Kaius?)
    Yeah, Karrnath or Karnath. Has the Bone Knight PrC from Five Nations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    DSP's Vizier, which just wrapped playtesting and is going through print, can make a cool necromantic character with the right choices.

    Heart of the Wight, Deathchannel Ring, the Tainted Chakra feat, you can start putting together some very fun options that look, feel, and play like a necromancer but use unexpected and fun mechanics.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Juju oracle into agent if the grave gets the biggest hordes, I believe. Makes a good choice for the divine spot. Black blood curse lets you heal off negative energy too, if you don't already from other sources.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex12 View Post
    I'm more familiar with 3.5, but I'm currently trying to convince my group to play a group of necromancers. Cleric, Necromancer-wizard, Dread Necromancer, and Death Master. So far, no takers aside from myself.
    I've been doing the same for years, but very few people seem to like necromancy

    As for the question, maybe the sepulchral thief from cityscape is an option?
    Last edited by Morrolan; 2014-05-12 at 04:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Well, Arcanist and Divine Caster have lots of obvious options, so i don't think i have to elaborate on that.

    For your Fighter-type character, a Sealbreaker Antipaladin would be ideal, given that he gains various necromantic powers and spells.

    For your Skillmonkey, you have several options.
    A Dirge Bard gets a bunch of necromancy-spells and effects - but actually at the cost of a lot of the skill-monkeyness that a Bard has, though he could still fill the role.
    An Alchemist strikes me as ideal, given that they can pull off the whole Frankenstein/Hyde-thing quite well, which fits a "undead" theme. The Reanimator archetype would be great for more Minion Goodness, but so is the Preservationist - or hey, why not combine the two?
    Actually, the reason not to is the Trap Breaker archetype (which doesn't stack with Preservationist) - but there is also a trait that allow the disabling of magical traps.



    And if the party is supposed to consist of Undead themselves - simply slap on the "Undead" type from the race builder onto every race the characters pick (elf, dwarf, kitsune, whatever) and you got yourself a undead party without all the hassles with templates like lich, skeleton hero, zombie lord or whatever. If everyone in the party has it, it won't disturb the balance much!



    So yes, it's perfectly possible to make a standard four-adventurer party using necromancer-themed characters
    Last edited by Serafina; 2014-05-12 at 05:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    For your Fighter-type character, a Sealbreaker Antipaladin would be ideal, given that he gains various necromantic powers and spells.

    For your Skillmonkey, you have several options.
    A Dirge Bard gets a bunch of necromancy-spells and effects - but actually at the cost of a lot of the skill-monkeyness that a Bard has, though he could still fill the role.
    An Alchemist strikes me as ideal, given that they can pull off the whole Frankenstein/Hyde-thing quite well, which fits a "undead" theme. The Reanimator archetype would be great for more Minion Goodness, but so is the Preservationist - or hey, why not combine the two?
    Actually, the reason not to is the Trap Breaker archetype (which doesn't stack with Preservationist) - but there is also a trait that allow the disabling of magical traps.
    I...but...you...and...I WAS GOING TO POST (almost) EXACTLY THIS SAME THING!
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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Wow, loads of good ideas. Thank the Mods that this thread got moved to the right place!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
    Why do you need a meatshield PC when you have minions to tank/deal all the damage for you?
    I'm thinking this is less a meat-shield and more of a surgeon. Yes, we have loads of minions to slow down enemies and dish out damage reasonably well. My thought would be to include someone who can deal with particularly nasty surprises an enemy party could muster.

    So, if an enemy Channel cleric decides to run into the middle of our minion horde and starts nuking them with Turns (e.g.), the melee PC would already be there, immune to undead-specific tactics by virtue of life, ready to make heads roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feint's End
    melee options
    Synthesist would make an unusual (and obvs powerful) option. I've recently fielded a Dread as a mid-level goon, and they can be extremely disruptive to an enemy's formations. Aura of "you can't target me", aura of fear, touch of debilitating effects. It is clearly squishier than the Antipaladin, but it can really mess up one's foes... and surrounded by minion tanks, it might be a great option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serafina View Post
    tons and tons of good ideas
    I didn't even know about the Sealbreaker, foolishly. Moar mohrgs! It feels weird to give up the weapon bond, but on the other hand it looks so cool to have a zombie horse.

    Alchemist variants... hehe. There's nothing that class can't do. I'd be losing out on stacking hordes of bloody skeletons in favour of fast zombies, tons of summons, etc.

    What I'm really loving about the ideas so far is how they increase the variety of the Horde. I was initially only thinking loads of bloody skeletons... now we've got allips and shadows, a weird full-level undead animal companion, a mohrg, a broad range of summons. All safe to use, even - they disappear before they go rogue, or remain under perfect control.

    Aaand now, rather than too few choices, I have far too many. You guys rock.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    I have run a group of NPC's similar to this in the past. The Warrior type character is not surplus to requirements just because you have tons of minions! A Black Knight astride his undead armoured charger at the fore of his skeletal horde is about as Iconic as it gets! he adds Important Drama and gives your fighter PC's someone to aim towards as they chew through your packs of undead.

    I tend to play this NPC something like this http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon
    Acting as an enforcer for the spellcasting ubervillains and a dash of colour/character against the backdrop of faceless undead minions.

    As for build suggestions? If PF only I used a Vampire Magus (str based) for this role. of all the party of NPC's he became the most memorable and reviled for the players, usually because of his large suit of defensive buffs and use of spell combat to full attack and then use some BFC spell to split the party, all the while throwing out some snappy taunting dialogue.

    Throwing in 3.5 stuff I ran a similar NPC who was a Warblade Deathknight, gave him some of the more shadow themed swordsage stuff for flavour and it worked pretty well.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Regarding my juju oracle suggestion, check out the juju zombie template.

    Note that they retain class levels. Now go dig up some oracles/sorcerers to reanimate. The fighter type could benefit from the template as well.

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    Default Re: Necromantic Party (PF) - Build Ideas Requested

    Quote Originally Posted by stack View Post
    Regarding my juju oracle suggestion, check out the juju zombie template.

    Note that they retain class levels. Now go dig up some oracles/sorcerers to reanimate. The fighter type could benefit from the template as well.
    I will admit I'm leaning heavily toward that option. Bloody skeletons are good optimization, but max-HP fast zombies as the Horde's foot soldiers, plus a few Juju zombie enforcers... delightful stuff. Plus, zombies keep the faces of your foes' departed loved ones when reanimated. That's power on which you can't put a price.

    Oh and the obvious benefit of doubling the size of the divine caster's Animate pool. Taking pressure off the other dudes to bring minions to the party, so they can focus on their own specialties.

    This party is rocking so hard right now...

    Divine: Juju Oracle / Agent of the Grave
    Arcane: Shadow Caller summoner
    Skilled: Major toss-up between Dirge bard and Reanimator Alchemist
    Warrior: Sealbreaker Antipaladin or Dread or Combat Maneuver Fighter or Magus... ugh. Still too many choices, but they've all gotten better.

    The Horde (assume 10th level for funsies):
    84-94 HD worth of max-HP fast zombies
    1d4+2 Augmented Summoned Allips / Shadows / Skeletal goonies
    40HD worth of bloody skeletons + free temporary Animate Dead OR 40HD worth of as many zombies into which I can stab alchemical reagents
    Mohrg + Undead Animal Companion at full level + 10HD Command Undead

    And then add Create Undead, Control Undead, Dominate Person, spawn, and other riskier ways of filling in short-term heavy hitters. What a mess.
    Last edited by Abd al-Azrad; 2014-05-13 at 01:43 PM.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophismata View Post
    You are a bad, bad man, Abd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    'Psionics' is just tapping into the core of magic within yourself, whereas the mumbo-jumbo dancing, gibbering, and flinging around esoteric material components is like trying to paint-by-numbers when the guy next to you is rendering works from Picasso by memory alone.

    Abd's contribution to the Animate/End A World project.

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