D&D 5e Release Dates and Pricing Confirmed

[CyberThread]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...es-and-Details

Fully Confirmed and legit, stuff is showing up on amazon now as pre orders.

[Gamgee]

Such price, so small. Well as much as I like the system I might have to skip or delay my purchase of it. Simply due to a lack of money. Those will be way to expensive for me in Canada.

[CyberThread]

Such price, so small. Well as much as I like the system I might have to skip or delay my purchase of it. Simply due to a lack of money. Those will be way to expensive for me in Canada.

Tell me more.... I do things on ebay all the time, so do speak up if I may have a new potential market :P

Like how much do they really jack the prices up in canada compared to the usa price?

[1337 b4k4]

Reading between the lines, it's unclear whether the starter set will include chargen rules or not. I hope it does as 6 pregens are going to wear thin real quick.
Good on them for including dice with the starter set though, at $20 that will make a good impulse buy / gift set.
Interesting note that the DMG, which won't be out until November, is where the optional rules will reside. I'm hoping that at 320 pages, the PHB will have at least some of the modules/optional rules they're talking about.
I like the art work on the covers, I hope that continues over to the inside artwork as well. I wasn't a huge fan of either 4e or 3e artwork.
Does anyone else think the font they chose for the book titles though is awful? Like something you'd see on the cover of a small press / indie book published from microsoft word out of a basement or like something from an old B-movie monster flick? Maybe it's just the way that the solid white stands out against everything else on the cover, it just looks off to me.

[CyberThread]

To put perspective PHB for 3.5 had 320 pages was 19.95 usa, but 31.25 candian .

[Kurald Galain]

I'm hoping that at 320 pages, the PHB will have at least some of the modules/optional rules they're talking about.

The page linked says "learn the game's systems from it, but it includes only basic rules." At a $50 price tag I don't think I'll be buying that.

[Eldan]

That actually seems cheap to me. We bought the 3.0 sourcebooks at 75 Swiss Francs (about 85$) per piece.

The covers look bland, though. NOt the pictures, they are pictury. But the writing and logo are very sterile.

[Kurald Galain]

Looking over Amazon, I see the 4E PHB sells for $15 now, the 3E PHB for $23, and the 2E PHB for $25, all of which substantially cheaper than 5E. The 1E PHB is $70 now, but that's presumably a collector's item.

[1337 b4k4]

The page linked says "learn the game's systems from it, but it includes only basic rules." At a $50 price tag I don't think I'll be buying that.

Yeah, but the WotC page says:

The Player’s Handbook is the essential reference for every Dungeons & Dragons roleplayer. It contains rules for character creation and advancement, backgrounds and skills, exploration and combat, equipment, spells, and much more.

Given that the basic rules are character creation, advancement, backgrounds, skills, exploration, combat, equipment and spells, I'm hoping the "much more" is stuff beyond the core system.

Looking over Amazon, I see the 4E PHB sells for $15 now, the 3E PHB for $23, and the 2E PHB for $25, all of which substantially cheaper than 5E. The 1E PHB is $70 now, but that's presumably a collector's item.

Well sure, but products on the market are always cheaper than new products. You'll note the list price is $35. The numbers we're being given by WotC are also list price. Also, arguably the fact that the 4e books are selling well below list while the 3e and 1e books are not is probably a factor of inventory glut (slow sales) and attempting to clear inventory before the new editions land. As an interesting side note, the 4e Rules Compendium is selling for $50 new on amazon, well over it's $20 list price, and all the essentials books are selling close to list.

[Stubbazubba]

Why on earth is the PHB coming out in July, and the DMG not until November? What can you do with a PHB without a DMG for 4 months?

[1337 b4k4]

Why on earth is the PHB coming out in July, and the DMG not until November? What can you do with a PHB without a DMG for 4 months?

Depends on the content of the PHB. If the PHB is less like more recent iterations and more like a complete core game, with the DMG containing more of the philosophical and optional stuff, it could work just fine.

[Kurald Galain]

Why on earth is the PHB coming out in July, and the DMG not until November? What can you do with a PHB without a DMG for 4 months?

Presumably the same as with 4E: the PHB contains all the rules to play the game, the DMG contains advice for running a campaign but no actual rules. As I recall, 4E's DMG also came out several months later (and I never bought that either, because nothing in there is necessary to run a game).

[Fralex]

I really hope they release it in PDF form. With bookmarks that take you to all the different sections. The playtest has taught me that this really is the best way to present a ton of information without it taking forever to look stuff up.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Well I'm off to check out Kobold Press, I think I recall them doing pathfinder stuff...

Does anyone know of any good adventures they have made?

[obryn]

Staggered releases are nothing new; the 3.0 release was, itself, staggered, and it did okay for itself. It also led to Sword & Sorcery's Creature Catalog being the first 3e monster book. (Neither 3.5 nor 4e were staggered, however.)

AD&D's releases were a lot more staggered than that, even, but that was the 70's.

As to why? A simple explanation is that not everything is done yet. Another is that $50 is pretty expensive, but $150 over several months is easier to swallow than $150 in one month.

e: For $16 I've pre-ordered the Starter Kit. I'm not super pumped, but that's impulse buy territory.

[1337 b4k4]

Another note on pricing is that production costs have gone up quite a bit over the years. For example to print a 320 page full color hardcover book at Lulu would be $50.65. Using the cost estimator here a 320 page, full color, glossy hardback book print run of 500,000 units has a per unit cost of ~$28 / unit (and note the print run size pretty much stops mattering over a couple thousand units from that particular publisher). Now obviously we don't know the exact costs of D&D's publishing, and certainly the small press costs charged by Lulu are not what WotC is paying, but it gives you an idea of where publishing costs are. If you figure that the retail markup on books is in general 50%, then the $50 price tag you're seeing might just well be a "reasonable" price for such a book. Now whether consumers will pay that or not is another matter, perhaps WotC should have gone with cheaper books (no color printing? paperback?) or more books at lower cost, but each of those comes with their own drawbacks. As a final note, I will point out that GURPS currently retails for $50 for the main book (338 pages) and $35 for the second book (224 pages).

[Sartharina]

...I do not like the new logo at all, and the artwork on the cover is... too noisy for my tastes. Save that kind of stuff for inside splash pages! I like my 3.5 'vault' themed art.

The pricing also seems a bit excessive.

[Friv]

Another note on pricing is that production costs have gone up quite a bit over the years. For example to print a 320 page full color hardcover book at Lulu would be $50.65. Using the cost estimator here a 320 page, full color, glossy hardback book print run of 500,000 units has a per unit cost of ~$28 / unit (and note the print run size pretty much stops mattering over a couple thousand units from that particular publisher). Now obviously we don't know the exact costs of D&D's publishing, and certainly the small press costs charged by Lulu are not what WotC is paying, but it gives you an idea of where publishing costs are. If you figure that the retail markup on books is in general 50%, then the $50 price tag you're seeing might just well be a "reasonable" price for such a book. Now whether consumers will pay that or not is another matter, perhaps WotC should have gone with cheaper books (no color printing? paperback?) or more books at lower cost, but each of those comes with their own drawbacks. As a final note, I will point out that GURPS currently retails for $50 for the main book (338 pages) and $35 for the second book (224 pages).

The problem is less $50 for a 320 page book, although I do happen to think that full color is a mistake. Lots of RPG books have done very well on snazzy B&W artwork. The problem is that there's no indication that $50 will be sufficient to play the actual game for any length of time, because all of the important rules and monsters are in two other books. I'm not paying $150 for one game, not unless it really wows me out of the gate.

*EDIT* I'm going to say something nice, since I said something mean. The starter set looks really good. How to play a group for five levels, dice, a set of pregens for people who don't have ideas, and an adventure with, presumably, advice for making more adventures for the other levels, and all at a price point that makes impulse buys possible.

[Seerow]

Presumably the same as with 4E: the PHB contains all the rules to play the game, the DMG contains advice for running a campaign but no actual rules. As I recall, 4E's DMG also came out several months later (and I never bought that either, because nothing in there is necessary to run a game).

I remember buying all 3 core books for 4e at once, so I do not believe that is a true statement.

Also according to the article, the DMG will include all of the optional modules (you know the big thing they've been hyping up as being what makes the game good for everyone? The thing that we never got a hint of in the playtest?) and more importantly all of the magic items. Hardly just advice for running the campaign without any rules.


More baffling than the DMG's delay is the Monster Manual's delay. The monster manual doesn't come out until September, a full month after the player's handbook. Even if you want to argue that the DMG isn't required (who wanted any loot from that encounter anyway?), the monster manual is absolutely required. Especially with the PHB being only a bit over 300 pages (so not going to have room for a bunch of monster stat blocks to hold over until the MM comes out).

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I remember buying all 3 core books for 4e at once, so I do not believe that is a true statement.

Also according to the article, the DMG will include all of the optional modules (you know the big thing they've been hyping up as being what makes the game good for everyone? The thing that we never got a hint of in the playtest?) and more importantly all of the magic items. Hardly just advice for running the campaign without any rules.


More baffling than the DMG's delay is the Monster Manual's delay. The monster manual doesn't come out until September, a full month after the player's handbook. Even if you want to argue that the DMG isn't required (who wanted any loot from that encounter anyway?), the monster manual is absolutely required. Especially with the PHB being only a bit over 300 pages (so not going to have room for a bunch of monster stat blocks to hold over until the MM comes out).

Obviously this means for at least a month PvP is encouraged by WotC!

Mwuahahahaha finally!

[Envyus]

The reason for it is apparently for errata. So if they need to update stuff they don't need to all at once. This was apparently a problem back in 4th. The starter set and the modules will no doubt come with Monster stats as well.

[Kurald Galain]

I remember buying all 3 core books for 4e at once, so I do not believe that is a true statement.

You are correct; I've just looked it up and the staggered release happened with 4.4's HOFL / RulCom / Monster Vault. They also did it with 3.0, years ago.

[captpike]

it seams kind of pointless to buy the PHB if you have no optional modules (assuming they really exist of course), magic items, or any creature stats.

I mean what can we do with that? have PvP only games?

[Envyus]

(assuming they really exist of course)

Sorry sorry but this caught my eye. The hell does this mean we can see the modules right there announced.

[Seerow]

Sorry sorry but this caught my eye. The hell does this mean we can see the modules right there announced.

The ways of Mike Mearls are mysterious and full of overpromising. Believe nothing until you see it actually exists, and you will avoid much disappointment.

[captpike]

Sorry sorry but this caught my eye. The hell does this mean we can see the modules right there announced.

they said they exist, that does not mean they do. it could mean for example that they have things they call modules, that are nothing more then small changes to unimportant rules.

I will believe they exist when I see them in a book in my hands.

if they had really wanted them to work they would have been in the playtest from the start. modules like the tactical combat one would have to be tested and made at the same time as the rest of the system. any mod that would effect the basic math of the game would.

so either they took the open playtest as nothing more then PR, or they were not serious about the modules

[SpawnOfMorbo]

they said they exist, that does not mean they do. it could mean for example that they have things they call modules, that are nothing more then small changes to unimportant rules.

I will believe they exist when I see them in a book in my hands.

if they had really wanted them to work they would have been in the playtest from the start. modules like the tactical combat one would have to be tested and made at the same time as the rest of the system. any mod that would effect the basic math of the game would.

so either they took the open playtest as nothing more then PR, or they were not serious about the modules

I'm still hoping that the playtest and Mearls being one of the leaders (or is he the defacto leader?) of the dev team is all a big ruse. Like... D&D Next and D&D 5e are actually two separate systems. WotC wanted to throw people off their trail because they are being innovating and fantastic behind the scene... And then they reveal their plan all along!



Probably not *sigh*

[Lokiare]

That actually seems cheap to me. We bought the 3.0 sourcebooks at 75 Swiss Francs (about 85$) per piece.

The covers look bland, though. NOt the pictures, they are pictury. But the writing and logo are very sterile.

Not cheap for me. That's like several months savings.

Yeah, but the WotC page says:



Given that the basic rules are character creation, advancement, backgrounds, skills, exploration, combat, equipment and spells, I'm hoping the "much more" is stuff beyond the core system.



Well sure, but products on the market are always cheaper than new products. You'll note the list price is $35. The numbers we're being given by WotC are also list price. Also, arguably the fact that the 4e books are selling well below list while the 3e and 1e books are not is probably a factor of inventory glut (slow sales) and attempting to clear inventory before the new editions land. As an interesting side note, the 4e Rules Compendium is selling for $50 new on amazon, well over it's $20 list price, and all the essentials books are selling close to list.

Hope in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up quicker.

The problem is less $50 for a 320 page book, although I do happen to think that full color is a mistake. Lots of RPG books have done very well on snazzy B&W artwork. The problem is that there's no indication that $50 will be sufficient to play the actual game for any length of time, because all of the important rules and monsters are in two other books. I'm not paying $150 for one game, not unless it really wows me out of the gate.

*EDIT* I'm going to say something nice, since I said something mean. The starter set looks really good. How to play a group for five levels, dice, a set of pregens for people who don't have ideas, and an adventure with, presumably, advice for making more adventures for the other levels, and all at a price point that makes impulse buys possible.

Yeah, the price points are just getting to be too much. I'm not putting anything down until I play the game and see how borked it is.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

So would this be the thread where we can place bets on how close the starter set will resemble the actual game?

Edit: bets not vets... Damn my phone's tiny keyboard!

[Gamgee]

With shipping, tax, and conversion I would imagine each 50 dollar book to reach around 60-65 dollars. If I try and support my LFGS I would expect another 5 to 10 on top. At launch surely 65 that adds up to be almost enough money for another book from any other rpg company. Insane prices jacking.

Edit
If I'm super lucky to get a deal on the core books I could get them for 55-60, but I need to be on the ball and having a lot of good luck shopping around.