D&D 5e Release Dates and Pricing Confirmed

[CyberThread]

Here you go folks, as 5e segment of the forums is such a wasteland, and this is news overall even those uninterested in the topic.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...es-and-Details

[Grod_The_Giant]

...why is it taking them four months to release the three core books? I guess maybe if you're just going through their adventure path you wouldn't need 'em, but still...

[Yora]

$150 is quite a lot just for the basic core rules.

C&C is $90, AS&SH is $50, and even Pathfinder $130 (with Bestiary and Gamemastery Guide being actually optional).

[erikun]

Yeah, this just seems like too much cost for something that I only have a passing curiosity about. I felt that $120 for buying D&D4e new was a bit too expensive, especially as it felt like a lot of stuff was left out of those books. I somehow think that $150 for a game I will likely never play is just too much.

$20 for what sounds like partial rules and only one quarter of the levels (and probably lacking other features) doesn't sound like a deal to me, either.

[Yora]

If it's basically a demo version of the game, they should release it for free.

[Kurald Galain]

That's way too expensive for me. PHBs for earlier editions are priced around $20, and of course 3E and Pathfinder have the free version on the internet; so no way that I'm going to shell out $150 for 5E regardless of how good it is.

[RFTD-blog]

I don't understand their marketing plan. With so many other RPGs available on the market these days (and for cheaper), why are they delaying the rollout like this? I'm interested in that question like Grod_the_Giant is. As a DM, I like to have all the potential tools at my fingertips. I just don't understand some of the decisions they're making.

I think it would be a great idea to at least reveal some sneak peek rules, like a full class, monster, or sample adventure that could be run in a single session. Like Yora said, they should consider just releasing the demo version for free.

Anybody have some insight as to their rollout plan? I remember they did something similar for 4e as well, and I also didn't really get it then either.

[CyberThread]

The way it is stagger, more then likely , the players guide will have both DM and Player info, much like 4e did, while the DM guide is just suggestions and a help book .


So in reality, 20 bucks to see if you like the system, and then probably just 50 bucks to buy it, then another 40 or so for the monster manual. Making it stagger also doesn't make it feel as expensive to most buyers, as you have to wait an entire paycheck for the add on's instead of feeling like you need to splurge and be "ripped off"

[Airk]

Yeah, I'm guessing the spread out release is because it's easier to sell someone one $50 book a month for three months than it is to sell them three $50 books all at once.

[Axinian]

Yeah, I'm guessing the spread out release is because it's easier to sell someone one $50 book a month for three months than it is to sell them three $50 books all at once.

Except it isn't? I'd much rather have everything all at once even if it looks like it costs more. It's way more obnoxious to have to wait for stuff than to pay more up front.

Not that these pricings would be acceptable even if they did come out all at once, but still.

[Airk]

Except it isn't? I'd much rather have everything all at once even if it looks like it costs more. It's way more obnoxious to have to wait for stuff than to pay more up front.

WotC's marketing department begs to differ? And I daresay they have a wider sample than you do. :P

Not everyone has a big chunk of disposable income every month - you'd think that would be obvious. Besides, the alternative is probably "You wait until the end of that 3 month period to buy all the books" NOT "All the books are available at the beginning of those three months." Sooo...

[obryn]

There will almost certainly be an online "survival kit" much like was printed in the back of the 3.0e PHB in 2000. But instead of making it take up valuable pages, it'll be free on the internet.

I'm in for the Starter Kit, just so I can see how it looks. $15 is really reasonable, after discount.

I am probably in for the PHB and MM; other than that, I'll wait for word of mouth.

[Brookshw]

If they're throwing the magic items into the dmg again I suppose its not that "optional" unless you want to go for homebrew but we'll see. Definitely not a fan of the staggering and price. Unless it this edition offers some major tools to help planning an adventure (digital creature advancers, etc, ya know, the "free stuff" already made online but capable of investing the inevitable product line), I'm just not sure what this edition is really offering.

And personal gripes: I don't really want there pregen adventures/campaigns for anything, hope they didn't factor such sales into there strategy. Also the art, didn't care much for 4e, don't like the covers of these much.

[erikun]

If it's basically a demo version of the game, they should release it for free.

Star Wars RPG from Fantasy Flight has a very similar Starter Kit and sells for $30, includes just some pre-generated characters and up to level 3. However, that's a particular unusual example - something very high quality and specifically tailored to new players - and I'm hesitant to assume that WotC is pulling off something similar. I definitely agree that it sounds more like a free demo version than what Fantasy Flight is offering, but I guess we'll see.

[obryn]

Star Wars RPG from Fantasy Flight has a very similar Starter Kit and sells for $30, includes just some pre-generated characters and up to level 3. However, that's a particular unusual example - something very high quality and specifically tailored to new players - and I'm hesitant to assume that WotC is pulling off something similar. I definitely agree that it sounds more like a free demo version than what Fantasy Flight is offering, but I guess we'll see.

They confirmed that it'll have character creation, which is a major plus for me and what convinced me to pull the trigger.

EotE's starter kit had to be more expensive on account of the nifty dice. This has a standard 6-set (with no percentile 10).

[Airk]

If they're throwing the magic items into the dmg again I suppose its not that "optional" unless you want to go for homebrew but we'll see. Definitely not a fan of the staggering and price. Unless it this edition offers some major tools to help planning an adventure (digital creature advancers, etc, ya know, the "free stuff" already made online but capable of investing the inevitable product line), I'm just not sure what this edition is really offering.

Well, odds are that if they haven't sold you on it already, you're not going to be interested. Honestly, they're in a pretty weird place with 5E, with a lot of people asking what the objective is, and no real clear answer that I have heard forthcoming.

And personal gripes: I don't really want there pregen adventures/campaigns for anything, hope they didn't factor such sales into there strategy. Also the art, didn't care much for 4e, don't like the covers of these much.

If they're actually trying to GROW the market, as opposed to just selling "upgrades" of D&D to everyone who already owns it, modules are a crucial part of that strategy.

[Axinian]

[QUOTE=Airk;17490463]WotC's marketing department begs to differ? And I daresay they have a wider sample than you do. :P

Not everyone has a big chunk of disposable income every month - you'd think that would be obvious.[/spoiler]

Right. How does staggering releases help with that. It doesn't since you said yourself:

"You wait until the end of that 3 month period to buy all the books"

Staggering releases doesn't make sense since either you have the money to buy them at the beginning or you wait. Just release them all at once. The people who are buying them later were gonna buy them later anyway so make them all available for the people who can pay now.

Also if they cared about people with less income they wouldn't price each gorram book at an outrageous $50, and basically make at least 3 of them required to just play the game.

[SoC175]

Mearls posted on twitter that the staggered the releases so that they had more time to work on each book. They want to avoid having to do that much errata as in 4e and admitted that they don't have the capacity to do a good job on all three at once.

[1337 b4k4]

Staggering releases doesn't make sense since either you have the money to buy them at the beginning or you wait. Just release them all at once. The people who are buying them later were gonna buy them later anyway so make them all available for the people who can pay now.

In general, the american public likes instant gratification. If you release all the books at once, and if all the books are required to make use of any of the books, then there is some fraction of your customer base that won't be buying books (and therefore won't be generating revenue) until much later if at all as all the other things they want that cost < $150 will take preference over your set of $150 books.

OTOH, if there's enough content in the PHB to get started, then a lot of people would be willing and able to drop the $50 immediately. I know in general it doesn't seem to make sense, but there really is a psychological component to this. On some level there are people that will see "1 book available now at $50" and be more willing to spend that $50 then if there were 3 books available now at $50 a piece. And though I don't have any data to back it up, I strongly suspect that as far as the TTRPG customer base goes, there are many more of the "If I buy it I must buy the whole collection" types than in the normal population.

Lastly, you also have to consider the parental aspect. When Timmy and Jane ask mommy and daddy to buy them this new D&D game, if mom and dad hop online and see one book for $50, they'll be more likely to drop that money than if they see that they need to spend $150 for this game. It's a small window, but a window none the less.

Also if they cared about people with less income they wouldn't price each gorram book at an outrageous $50, and basically make at least 3 of them required to just play the game.

I covered this in the other thread (in the D&D Next section) but it's entirely possible that $50 isn't at all outrageous for the product that's being provided. It may still be outside the price range you want to pay, but the realities of publishing is that 300+ page full color hardback books are expensive.

[Kurald Galain]

Mearls posted on twitter that the staggered the releases so that they had more time to work on each book. They want to avoid having to do that much errata as in 4e and admitted that they don't have the capacity to do a good job on all three at once.

Hm, that may actually work. I'm told the time between having the final version of the book done and having it printed/distributed is between one and two months, so if they have three months between PHB and DMG then they'll be able to print errata to the former in the latter. Knowing the internet, they'll get lots of feedback on the PHB almost instantly: many forumites will recall how extremely quickly 4E players were able to come up with the basic broken builds (notably a mid-level ranger that could easily defeat the strongest enemy in the MM, Orcus).

Then again, it took the 4E team about two years to errata the another obvious broken PHB1 build, i.e. the Blood Mage

[Grytorm]

You know this makes me wonder if Wizards could leverage MtG in any way to sell D&D any easier. Not directly but convince the stores that hold FNM to help a little in running a promotion. It probably won't happen but offering a discount to the core rulebooks if you bought a starter kit. Wizards would foot the bill but the stores would run the system. Have the stores be the one who processes things.

[Airk]

Right. How does staggering releases help with that. It doesn't since you said yourself:

Because people aren't going to save up their money three months in advance to buy D&D 5E. They're just not.

Staggering releases doesn't make sense since either you have the money to buy them at the beginning or you wait. Just release them all at once. The people who are buying them later were gonna buy them later anyway so make them all available for the people who can pay now.

You sir, have no idea how people buy things. As has been pointed out, we're all about instant gratification here. If you can buy "that new D&D book" for $50, three months in a row, you will. If "All the new D&D books" come out at once for $150, you'll go "F-, I can't afford $150." and maybe buy one, maybe.

Also if they cared about people with less income they wouldn't price each gorram book at an outrageous $50, and basically make at least 3 of them required to just play the game.

That's a completely different issue. Anyway, I didn't say they CARED about people who have less income, I IMPLIED that they want to SELL to people who have less income. Those are not at all the same.

[Kurald Galain]

You know this makes me wonder if Wizards could leverage MtG in any way to sell D&D any easier.

They tried, by selling collectible/tradable action cards for 4E. They didn't catch on though, despite being more-or-less mandatory for organized play for awhile.

[Knaight]

The $150 is kind of ridiculous here. That might have flown in 2000 (though inflation was not high enough to make up the entire difference), but now? RPGs are available for cheap. I can buy Burning Wheel for 25 dollars, and it's every bit as complex as D&D is. There's a number of big, rules heavy games that cost 40 dollars total. Even if I thought D&D 5e looked promising (and I don't), it doesn't look as promising as 5 complete, highly polished, hardback games.

[CyberThread]

The $150 is kind of ridiculous here. That might have flown in 2000 (though inflation was not high enough to make up the entire difference), but now? RPGs are available for cheap. I can buy Burning Wheel for 25 dollars, and it's every bit as complex as D&D is. There's a number of big, rules heavy games that cost 40 dollars total. Even if I thought D&D 5e looked promising (and I don't), it doesn't look as promising as 5 complete, highly polished, hardback games.

Eh to be fair, your also buying for the Name; higher amount of effort put into a d&d book then rings, and more likelyhood to find players that know what your talking about when you want to find a game to play.

[Knaight]

Eh to be fair, your also buying for the Name; higher amount of effort put into a d&d book then rings, and more likelyhood to find players that know what your talking about when you want to find a game to play.

Burning Wheel had just as much work put into it. Legend of the Five Rings had just as much work put into it. Qin: The Warring states had just as much work put into it. It's not the rules light, minimalist, quickly made indie games that are 5 times cheaper, it's the other big ones.

The network effect is real here, as is the brand name. The effort? Not so much. I also really don't care about the brand name, so it becomes a matter of the network effect. More specifically, is D&Ds network effect as valuable as 4 other games? I'd go with no, for basically everyone. In my particular situation, where I actually favor rules light games and usually have to teach the mechanics to people regardless of whether it is D&D or not? It's a very certain no.

[Axinian]

sir, have no idea how people buy things. As has been pointed out, we're all about instant gratification here. If you can buy "that new D&D book" for $50, three months in a row, you will. If "All the new D&D books" come out at once for $150, you'll go "F-, I can't afford $150." and maybe buy one, maybe.

Except that's completely contrary to instant gratification. If I can't buy the whole game now I'm not getting any gratification. If I buy one book now and I'm not satisfied, I'm not gonna buy the rest. However, if I get them all at once, I will likely be more satisfied because I have the whole game, AND they'll still have all my money if I'm not. Rather than some now and none later.

Mearls posted on twitter that the staggered the releases so that they had more time to work on each book. They want to avoid having to do that much errata as in 4e and admitted that they don't have the capacity to do a good job on all three at once.

That's a better reason. It'd be nice if I could believe it would actually make a difference in the overall quality of the game, but this is WoTC we're talking about here.

[veti]

I'd consider paying $150 for the basic rulebooks, if they would promise in return that every official rules supplement, including every module that contains new monsters/spells/items, will be published on the internet for free.

But paying $150 for just the first instalment of what we all know is going to be an endless drip-feed of ever-more-broken kitchen-sink rules? The word of mouth is going to have to be pretty damn' good to sell me on that value proposition.

[Airk]

Except that's completely contrary to instant gratification. If I can't buy the whole game now I'm not getting any gratification. If I buy one book now and I'm not satisfied, I'm not gonna buy the rest. However, if I get them all at once, I will likely be more satisfied because I have the whole game, AND they'll still have all my money if I'm not. Rather than some now and none later.

No it's not. Instant gratification maps exactly to what you can get NOW. If you can't afford $150, you're going to be dissuaded from buying a piece of it.

Again, obviously, people who have done a HEAPTON more research than both of us put together clearly support the idea that releasing the books piecemeal is a good idea, so you can argue until you're blue in the face, and the evidence will still be against you.

[Axinian]

No it's not. Instant gratification maps exactly to what you can get NOW. If you can't afford $150, you're going to be dissuaded from buying a piece of it.

Again, obviously, people who have done a HEAPTON more research than both of us put together clearly support the idea that releasing the books piecemeal is a good idea, so you can argue until you're blue in the face, and the evidence will still be against you.

I don't care. It's not how I buy things and this marketing decision has done nothing but make me less likely to buy it.