Pinpointing invisibility

[Aximili]

OK, I looked in the PH and in the SRD for this. I apologise if it's in the DMG, I do not have one.

What are the rules for pinpointing an invisible creature (finding out which square it's in) with the good old listen check? No skill tricks / feats / whatsoever. Just a listen check.

I used to think it impossible, but the Keen-eared scout feat (PHB2) gives you a +5 bonus for such attempts.

Furthermore, suppose I hit an inivisble enemy with an arrow, wouldn't that allow me and my allies to always know which square he's in?

[Arbitrarity]

DC to hear +20, pinpoints.


Dunno about anything else... It's in DMG.

Think the arrow goes invisible, or is pulled out and dropped, or something. And the blood... well, there's an issue. Try it, but your DM may smite you.

[AngelSword]

I've always stood that, since the spell is actively cloaking the user, Detect Magic is a really simple foil, since you'd be able to spot the aura. There are flaws, however, since you'd still have to roll miss chance, but it's better than relying on your ears.

[Aximili]

But if the listen checks means not having to spend an action on it, I'd really prefer to rely on my ears.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Invisibility in the SRD

You can pinpoint an invisible creature either through the use of Spot or Listen. An active and invisible creature that is moving about can be detected with a DC 20 check, but can only be pinpointed on a DC 40 check.

Likewise, an invisible creature can be pinpointed with a Listen check that beats a DC 20 above the normal DC to hear it.

Managing to shoot an invisible creature with an arrow doesn't necessarily help you pinpoint it. Because of the abstract nature of hp, an arrow that "hits" its target doesn't necessarily penetrate and stay hanging in the air, if that's what you're thinking about. That kind of thing is really up to the DM, I suppose.

I've always stood that, since the spell is actively cloaking the user, Detect Magic is a really simple foil, since you'd be able to spot the aura.

But detect magic won't pinpoint the aura until you've studied an area for three rounds. If that invisible creature is moving around, detect magic will be of no use.

[AngelSword]

If you're actively trying to eke out sounds, then that is considered an action. It's only a free action when you are reacting to sound.

But detect magic won't pinpoint the aura until you've studied an area for three rounds. If that invisible creature is moving around, detect magic will be of no use.

I never said it was foolproof. I am just saying that it's possible.

[Elliot Kane]

This is why my characters always carry a bag of flour :)

[Dhavaer]

But detect magic won't pinpoint the aura until you've studied an area for three rounds. If that invisible creature is moving around, detect magic will be of no use.

Arcane Sight should work, though.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

If you're actively trying to eke out sounds, then that is considered an action. It's only a free action when you are reacting to sound.

But then we have...

A creature can use hearing to find an invisible creature. A character can make a Listen check for this purpose as a free action each round.

(emphasis mine)

[Ryuuk]

About using detection style spells to find invisible foes, how would Arcane Sight work? So far I've assumed that it lets you see the illusionary aura that hides your foe and pinpoint him, but since you can't actually see him you still take the full miss chance from concealment.

[AngelSword]

Alright, I'm wrong. In which case, I think that the rules as written are inconsistent with themselves.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

About using detection style spells to find invisible foes, how would Arcane Sight work? So far I've assumed that it lets you see the illusionary aura that hides your foe and pinpoint him, but since you can't actually see him you still take the full miss chance from concealment.

That is correct. You see the aura, not the creature. The creature still benefits from total concealment.

[iceman]

see invisibility is a 2nd level spell and should also come in potion form. I'd say that unless you can cast the spell yourself or from a scroll, then purchasing the potion would be your best bet.

As for pinpointing a target with hearing many of you are forgetting that any sentient being with the slightest bit of intellect would be moving silently when invisible and probably still hiding (just in case). I've had fellow gamers, with 1st level characters mind you, with hide and move silently skills in the mid to upper teens. Meaning the average roll to see or hear them is in the mid twenties at first level, and by 6th or 7th level those DC's are in the mid to upper thirties if not the forties.

[oriong]

I don't think anyone forgot that. Pretty much everyone has said that the DC is 20 above the normal DC to hear it (i.e. their move silently DC).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

see invisibility is a 2nd level spell and should also come in potion form.

'Cept see invisibility is a personal range spell, and you can't create potions from spells with personal ranges.

Yeah, it's a stupid rule.

[Duskwither]

'Cept see invisibility is a personal range spell, and you can't create potions from spells with personal ranges.

Yeah, it's a stupid rule.

I agree. I want my fighter to carry about potions of Righteous Might and Divine Power.

This thread has benefited me. This issue had come up quite often because our little group of PCs makes use of an imp which (houseuled) just constantly keeps Invisibility on everyone as he can do it at wil. As well as casting Commune to take advantage of the godless fool seeking answers from a higher being to better himself.

Edit: Aximili? Your avatar is made of win.

[oriong]

Ummm...your fighter can't carry around those potions anyway. Potions max out at 3rd level.

[toddex]

see invisibility is a 2nd level spell and should also come in potion form. I'd say that unless you can cast the spell yourself or from a scroll, then purchasing the potion would be your best bet.

As for pinpointing a target with hearing many of you are forgetting that any sentient being with the slightest bit of intellect would be moving silently when invisible and probably still hiding (just in case). I've had fellow gamers, with 1st level characters mind you, with hide and move silently skills in the mid to upper teens. Meaning the average roll to see or hear them is in the mid twenties at first level, and by 6th or 7th level those DC's are in the mid to upper thirties if not the forties.

Thats either a crazy power game, or your PCs just wasted some good feats for nothing.

[Duskwither]

Ummm...your fighter can't carry around those potions anyway. Potions max out at 3rd level.

I see. Perhaps this is why I never liked them to begin with.

[Quietus]

My DM tends to go with "If you beat the DC of their move silently by 20, you can pinpoint them", I think. Tends to make things a bit easier when we're in combat and not trying to be quiet. Of course, that could just be for my blind character, who would have gotten used to locating things like that.

[oriong]

Nope, that's the standard DC

[Quietus]

Ah. Then it's just my blind char's +14 Listen at level 1 that lets me do that, cool.