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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    That's what the Will save is for. Suffering a fear effect means you can't ignore your fear. Otherwise, you could make a Concentration check to ignore penalties while shaken.
    But if it's the will save that's letting you ignore your fear then why do fighters have such a sucky one? I mean everyone would be afraid before going into a battle and aren't the best Fighters supposed to the one's who can maintain composure on a battle field in spite having fear in them that would make a lesser man break down and cry? Isn't it supposed to be a soldiers training (skill) which allows to perform under duress, just as practicing a speech can help you perform it though you may may still experience stage fright?

    Besides that if you look at it mechanically it's the will save that prevents the spell from working on you at all and would lead me to believe it doesn't have anything to do with how you cope with it. That is to say it's a preventative and not a treatment.

    So that's why I think a skill should be applied to being able to cope with fear rather than just a flat failure chance for fumbling a spell because of fear.

    Perhaps something like:
    DC 15+X+ level of spell being cast
    Where "X" is whatever you think is a suitable modifier for how intense each stage of fear is.

    Also I don't see any reason a suitable high level spell caster should ever blow casting a 1st level spell just because they're shaken

    I think fear is a powerful and complex emotion which is not done justice in the current rules and like to see it being discussed in more depth.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    What does anyone think on this fear system I've drafted up?

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Necromancy does not cover raise/ressurection spells because Necromancy governs physical life and death, not the soul. Resurrection spells call the soul back from farther plains of existence. Necromancy is able to manipulate life energy, but the limit is creating zombies/undead, which are spirits or bodies brought to life without an actual soul.

    From a balance perspective, giving necromancy cure, heal, restoration, and resurrection spells hurts conjuration too much for the sake of flavor (and a preference for one particular school.
    Gnoll Paladin with Zanbatou Avatar by Oregano.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExHunterEmerald
    Incidentally, Armadillo, I'd suggest you were hit by a spark of inspiration, but that would knock your armor off.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Sezzler View Post
    But if it's the will save that's letting you ignore your fear then why do fighters have such a sucky one? I mean everyone would be afraid before going into a battle and aren't the best Fighters supposed to the one's who can maintain composure on a battle field in spite having fear in them that would make a lesser man break down and cry? Isn't it supposed to be a soldiers training (skill) which allows to perform under duress, just as practicing a speech can help you perform it though you may may still experience stage fright?
    Since Fighters have such good Concentration rolls and all...

    Besides that if you look at it mechanically it's the will save that prevents the spell from working on you at all and would lead me to believe it doesn't have anything to do with how you cope with it. That is to say it's a preventative and not a treatment.
    What about from "mundane" sources like a tarrasque or dragon charging at you (both of which have (Ex) fear-causing abilities)?

    Granted, it is a bit odd that a Fighter 20 will be more terrified than a Bard 20...

    So that's why I think a skill should be applied to being able to cope with fear rather than just a flat failure chance for fumbling a spell because of fear.

    Perhaps something like:
    DC 15+X+ level of spell being cast
    Where "X" is whatever you think is a suitable modifier for how intense each stage of fear is.

    Also I don't see any reason a suitable high level spell caster should ever blow casting a 1st level spell just because they're shaken
    Well, then you've got the problem of high-level casters simply ignoring fear altogether, like casting defensively.

    I think fear is a powerful and complex emotion which is not done justice in the current rules and like to see it being discussed in more depth.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerok View Post
    What does anyone think on this fear system I've drafted up?
    It needs a state of blind terror. Your "panicked" state doesn't really indicate that. To me, it just indicates severe penalties which someone may which to negate by running hell-bent-for-leather away from the source of fear and then calming down. I think it should force the victim to run hell-bent-for-leather away from the source of fear. And they shouldn't stop once they're out of view, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Ok, here are some more comments/suggestions. Next thing I have to get around to looking at is the [Sabatoge] subschool. I've formulated some questions about that as well, but you probably already answered them in there

    Ashes to Ashes- Can you clarify as to whether or not the ashes could be used for a resurrection spell? I would think not, but you never know.
    Bless These Hands, Curse Those Claws- I think that this might be alright as a 1st level spell.
    Brand of Evil- I think that 3d6 Negative Levels is a heck of a lot. Might want to raise the spell level quite a bit or lower the negative levels.
    Buried Alive- Higher Listen DC (your increase is equivalent to “Through a door,” A couple feet of dirt would be more, I think). I would assume that this spell would leave some sort of visual signs (a mound of loose dirt, or something)
    Bury Body- Just wanted to say that it is a neat spell :)
    Conscience Burn- I don’t think that alignments change too often, so this seems a little questionable.
    Contagious Fear- Duration is set as “Cone-shaped burst”
    Corpse Dance- Does Gentle Repose preserve the corpse for this spell?
    Death to the Summons- May want to lower level only because it is relatively simple to thwart (it’s not running away, it is a tactical retreat). Either that, or increase the chances of automatically taking over the creature. Also, when you do gain control of it, does it change its initiative to act on yours or does it still go on its summoner’s turn?
    Drag to Depths- Do all these strength checks happen in one round, or across several rounds? If the latter, can a teleportation spell or similar effect move the subject the necessary distance and can the creatures grabbing the target be attacked?
    Dread Shroud- You may want to add that this inhibits spellcasting.
    Entropic Field- I really like this idea, but even though it’s 1 round/level, automatically getting rid of any damage reducing/mitigating abilities seems like a bit much, even as an 8th level spell. You may want to include a way for a creature to not be affected by this.
    Forever Flesh- I’m not entirely sure what one is supposed to do with this spell? Is it just to make sure your Undead don’t stink?
    Ghoul Beacon- You might want to change duration to that closer to Hide From Undead. I think that 1 hour would be better.
    Incorporeal Surgeon- Aren’t most DC’s well above 10, in which case the caster needs to be very high level in order to gain the benefits of this spell?
    Inner Maiden- If the spell is not triggered during the duration, does the spell go off automatically or is it lost?
    Lich Bind- Is the spirit a Ghost? Or just a spirit? Also, I would suggest making that gem a Material Component rather than a focus. After all, killing outright by failing a save and barring resurrection seems a little steep for a 5th level spell.
    Open Scars- You list “Fortitude (partial)” but don’t specify what the “partial” part is. I assumed that the fortitude save negates the staggered duration, but…
    Tomb Friends- 5 pounds seems like a bit much, and I suspect you’d be pretty far along in the tomb before you even gain enough to make 1 mote. Also, because of the sort of spell it is, I might suggest a longer casting time. Just because you won’t be casting it during battle or while you’re in the middle of some other danger.
    Transfer Touch- I don’t know if you should gain the spells back, but unless someone else says something about this, don’t worry about it.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmorArmadillo View Post
    Necromancy does not cover raise/ressurection spells because Necromancy governs physical life and death, not the soul. Resurrection spells call the soul back from farther plains of existence. Necromancy is able to manipulate life energy, but the limit is creating zombies/undead, which are spirits or bodies brought to life without an actual soul.
    Ahem, this is where I come in to explain to you why necromancy and not, conjuration should cover resurrection and raise dead. First necromancy covers not only the physical body (life and death), but also spirits (if those spirits are used in conjunction with organic substances or once possessed a biological form). Second raise dead and resurrection repair and revive the dead (necromancy) and allows its soul back into the body (necromancy again).

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmorArmadillo View Post
    From a balance perspective, giving necromancy cure, heal, restoration, and resurrection spells hurts conjuration too much for the sake of flavor (and a preference for one particular school.
    So, what? Conjuration involves magically bringing things and creatures to you while necromancy can actually restore the flesh itself. Just because you think that conjuration would be weaker with out healing spells isn't a good enough reason to grant the school such spells. Think of it this way. Conjuration (wizardly conjuration to be more precise) can be thought of as fantastic version of astrophysics (use of black holes and wormholes) and particle physics (think of Star Trek's transporter beam). While necromancy (wizardly, yet again) can be thought of as encompassing biology, genetics, forensic pathology, zoology, medicine, organic chemistry and spiritualism ( with a scientific bent, however).

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmorArmadillo View Post
    From a balance perspective, giving necromancy cure, heal, restoration, and resurrection spells hurts conjuration too much for the sake of flavor (and a preference for one particular school.
    Wizards don't really get much in the way of healing spells anyway, and the primary reason to balance schools is to balance Specialist Wizards. Besides, Conjuration gets all the Summoning, Calling, and Teleportation spells. Necromancy gets... negative levels?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    Wizards don't really get much in the way of healing spells anyway, and the primary reason to balance schools is to balance Specialist Wizards. Besides, Conjuration gets all the Summoning, Calling, and Teleportation spells. Necromancy gets... negative levels?
    Summoning and calling are unusually weak. Teleportation was given to it because Transmutation was too strong. As for wizards being the reason, there is also Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, and other such things.

    But this isn't the point:
    Abjuration gets Cure because it conjures magical energy in pure beneficial way.
    Transmutation gets Cure because it alters the physiology of a creature in a beneficial way.
    Necromancy gets Cure because it controls life and death.
    Evocation gets Cure because it directly evokes pure positive energy.


    Just because you feel that flavorwise something can be explained to be a part of necromancy is not a reason for the spell to be switched schools. Furthermore, here flavor isn't even a driving reason so much as a personal preference for Necromancy and a desire to make a really powerful "Necromancy class."
    Gnoll Paladin with Zanbatou Avatar by Oregano.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExHunterEmerald
    Incidentally, Armadillo, I'd suggest you were hit by a spark of inspiration, but that would knock your armor off.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Thanks for the dread list, its very handy.

    Betrayal of the soul *will* kill any creature, as you're taking an exact duplicate of the creature, slapping on a template, and then watching them scrap it out. That's maybe a bit powerful don't you think? The magic items are even copied, so the ghost should win every time, particularly with a spellcaster behind it. This way, a 15th level wizard could take out any level character, even epic. There's not even a save!

    Inner Maiden is my current favourite, there's nothing like exploding peasants to ruin a paladins day. I also like forever flesh and throne of bone.

    Bestow mind looks a bit weak though, it doesn't last very long, is very high level and requires a large and unpleasant component. Awaken undead by comparison awakens lots of undead and lasts forever.
    Last edited by katarl; 2007-02-25 at 08:29 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Calver View Post
    Ok, here are some more comments/suggestions. Next thing I have to get around to looking at is the [Sabatoge] subschool. I've formulated some questions about that as well, but you probably already answered them in there

    Ashes to Ashes- Can you clarify as to whether or not the ashes could be used for a resurrection spell? I would think not, but you never know.
    Bless These Hands, Curse Those Claws- I think that this might be alright as a 1st level spell.
    Brand of Evil- I think that 3d6 Negative Levels is a heck of a lot. Might want to raise the spell level quite a bit or lower the negative levels.
    Buried Alive- Higher Listen DC (your increase is equivalent to “Through a door,” A couple feet of dirt would be more, I think). I would assume that this spell would leave some sort of visual signs (a mound of loose dirt, or something)
    Bury Body- Just wanted to say that it is a neat spell :)
    Conscience Burn- I don’t think that alignments change too often, so this seems a little questionable.
    Contagious Fear- Duration is set as “Cone-shaped burst”
    Corpse Dance- Does Gentle Repose preserve the corpse for this spell?
    Death to the Summons- May want to lower level only because it is relatively simple to thwart (it’s not running away, it is a tactical retreat). Either that, or increase the chances of automatically taking over the creature. Also, when you do gain control of it, does it change its initiative to act on yours or does it still go on its summoner’s turn?
    Drag to Depths- Do all these strength checks happen in one round, or across several rounds? If the latter, can a teleportation spell or similar effect move the subject the necessary distance and can the creatures grabbing the target be attacked?
    Dread Shroud- You may want to add that this inhibits spellcasting.
    Entropic Field- I really like this idea, but even though it’s 1 round/level, automatically getting rid of any damage reducing/mitigating abilities seems like a bit much, even as an 8th level spell. You may want to include a way for a creature to not be affected by this.
    Forever Flesh- I’m not entirely sure what one is supposed to do with this spell? Is it just to make sure your Undead don’t stink?
    Ghoul Beacon- You might want to change duration to that closer to Hide From Undead. I think that 1 hour would be better.
    Incorporeal Surgeon- Aren’t most DC’s well above 10, in which case the caster needs to be very high level in order to gain the benefits of this spell?
    Inner Maiden- If the spell is not triggered during the duration, does the spell go off automatically or is it lost?
    Lich Bind- Is the spirit a Ghost? Or just a spirit? Also, I would suggest making that gem a Material Component rather than a focus. After all, killing outright by failing a save and barring resurrection seems a little steep for a 5th level spell.
    Open Scars- You list “Fortitude (partial)” but don’t specify what the “partial” part is. I assumed that the fortitude save negates the staggered duration, but…
    Tomb Friends- 5 pounds seems like a bit much, and I suspect you’d be pretty far along in the tomb before you even gain enough to make 1 mote. Also, because of the sort of spell it is, I might suggest a longer casting time. Just because you won’t be casting it during battle or while you’re in the middle of some other danger.
    Transfer Touch- I don’t know if you should gain the spells back, but unless someone else says something about this, don’t worry about it.
    Good suggestions, all of which I've addressed. But Brand of Evil does 3d6 negative energy damage; no level loss involved.

    And Betrayal of the Soul has been toned down.
    Last edited by Maerok; 2007-02-26 at 09:50 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Wow I have no idea how I read "negative levels" Twice! Sorry about that I must have been tired or something
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    What does anyone think about the PrC? I think it might be overpowered but I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Maerok; 2007-02-26 at 11:35 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Hello there, I like a lot of this stuff, but you were looking for some critiques, so here we go :)

    Buried Alive

    I really like the flavor of this spell a lot, but I think one thing should be added, given that it is only a lvl 2 spell: The people should get 2x their constitution modifier in rounds before they start suffocating. I know it means the spell won't kill a lot of things, but suffocating means they get only about 2-3 rounds before dying with one spell. With other 1st-2nd lvl spells, you would have to expend a spell each round to hope to kill/incapacitate someone that fast. So now it is a reflex save or be taken out of combat (good spell to beging with), and then Str checks to get out, but they have plenty of time to do it, so it is less likely this would be an instant kill spell. You could make the spell automatically make them "shaken" if they are buried. But then that may bump it up as a consideration for 3rd lvl spell.

    He of the Blacksands

    Dark Conversion should be stepped down a notch I think. It is like elemental substitution, but it has no resistances except among undead, so it doesn't make sense not to use it pretty much all of the time. It also turns all of his spells into healing spells for any undead minions he has. Maybe give it a /day limit. The Blacksand Spells ability seems harsh if you ever want to make this guy an NPC enemy, but hey, DMs sometimes love the Ashes to Ashes thing :-p.

    You'll want to change the wording on the firewall palate-swap. It says he can use it once per day and then 1 minute per day at different intervals. Maybe just "10 rounds/day" similar to boots of haste or like abilities.

    And Blacksand Transformation seems a might complicated. You might want to consider making it a change more similar to transmutations of other classes (immunity to something, DR, type change, etc). Some of the other things seem like they could be separate class abilities (the damage to everyone in a surrounding area for example). For the level you would have to be to get there, I don't think it's too good, just more complicated than it has to be.

    Other than those two, the fact that it is a higher level PrC and only gains half spell progression balance the other things out pretty well. Good job. I don't see many PrCs that stay focused and get their point across this well. I would say that any slight imbalance is more than made up for by staying on course and good flavor.

    Fear Rules

    Heh, again with the complicated. :-p This isn't a problem for people who want to deal with it. I feel similarly about the Giant's Diplomacy variant. It is a good solution to the problem, but I end up just making people make a check and DMing the result. I more wanted to address some of the ideas for getting around immunity to fear. I always try to think of ways to make grittier campaigns, but I think the simplest solution (if you want a rules solution) in the end is just to ban such effects, or turn them into bonuses and give the class something else.

    It's similar, I think, to another article about darkvision and low-light vision. The DM was (rightfully) sad that the only creatures in the game without either of them are humans, halflings, lizardfolk, and locathahs. So how do you make a gritty, "protect the torch from the wind" kind of campaign if people want to play all manner of dwarves and elves and beholders. And, as I've found out in my campaigns, it's a legitimate worry.

    Hmm...I'm getting off topic. My bigger concern about fear is not who is immune by mechanics, but that nearly every fighter, rogue, cleric, or druid that has the initiative to roll a set of stats wants to believe their character is immune to fear. I have suffered from this very phenomenon when playing a raging fighter who was fear spelled every combat. Whenever one of these spells was cast on me, I would run away, cursing magic, and then run back as though nothing had happened, killing the monster with extreme vengeance, and hoping the other players wouldn't make fun of me for it. If a spell or effect did not force it on me, then I was simply never afraid.

    But it would help if players would notice that even Elric of Melnibone was afraid sometimes, even Richard Rahl and Rand and Batman and Tanis Half-Elven, and all the others. Even they have things they fear. But it is, after all, hard. Especially when you know that your character can kill a skeleton in one round and that the zombie attacking him has no chance of hitting. In the end, Necromancer's are puny.

    So I think, ultimately, the way to inspire fear in your players is not through a spell, but simple things like reminding them of my above comments or having NPCs involved who are equally afraid. (In fact, if the NPCs run first, then that gives the PCs a brave out, because they waited until the last!)

    If I were pressed to come up with a system though, I would make it a threshold deal, similar to sanity in Call of Cthulu. And fear spells would then temporarily push characters over that fear threshold. I feel like a statistical representation of how afraid they are would be a constant reminder to players that they can, in fact, be afraid.
    Last edited by OneFamiliarFace; 2008-05-26 at 04:20 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Wow, this is a case of Advanced Threadomancy, eh? Couldn't happen to a nicer thread, though. It's even better the second time around, which is more than I can say for most undead (especially undead with these powers).

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Wow, this is a case of Advanced Threadomancy, eh? Couldn't happen to a nicer thread, though. It's even better the second time around, which is more than I can say for most undead (especially undead with these powers).
    Whoops, I forgot to check the date on these posts. I just found the homebrew stuff through Maerok's link, as we are applying to the same campaign. Anyway, I hope it's still a relevant thread and that Maerok can use some of my suggestions. I for one may start a new thread on fear though. Interesting topic that one.

    And yeah, I guess I have a new spell to add to my necromantic spell-list, thought I don't know how much it will help me outside of d20 modern.

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    I'm still watching this thread. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm probably going to have to cut buried alive into an annoyance spell and a kill spell.
    Last edited by Maerok; 2008-05-26 at 07:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy (50+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerok View Post
    Bestow Mind
    I'm confused a bit by this spell. "the caster grants the affected undead an Intelligence score of 1" but the "The total Intelligence gained cannot exceed half of the Intelligence score of the brain being used." If the Int scored is always added as just one, what does the other sentence imply other than that the brain used needs to be a brain of at least 2 int.
    I'm also slightly worried that this allows a single brain to work for multiple creatures. IIRC Awaken Undead is balanced by having an XP cost. Without the XP cost this could be potentially abused.

    Blacksand Bolt
    I'm a bit worried about this spell. It works just like Magic Missile which is already a bit powerful for a first level spell and this has the additional ability of being able to heal creatures which are healed by negative energy. Since almost any self-respecting Dread Necromancer takes Tomb-Tainted Soul at level 1, a DN can use this potentially to heal themselves and attack in the same action.

    Bone Cycle
    This actually seems to me to be a bit weak for an 8th level spell since most encounters are over with fairly quickly and by the time one is casting 8th level spells many if not most of the undead you control will not be mindless. And furthermore, for an at least 15th level spellcaster, having your minions be fighting within 30 feet of where you are seems way too close for comfort.

    Brand of Evil
    I'm confused, you say "The mark can be removed by sheer force of will" but also list "No" under save.

    Corpsedance
    If it doesn't include the intermediate gem you may need to specify from where the maximum distance is determined from. Is it from your initial spot? It may make sense to either increase the range to long or to lower the spell level to 4 since this is in general inferior to Magic Jar.


    Exhume Memories
    Even for a 9th level spell this should probably have a save. Furthermore, the spell is massively modifying the memories of many other people and they get no saves? That seems wrong. I'd suggest allowing every creature influenced by the spell to have a save but make natural 20s not automatic successes. Thus, the vast majority of creatures will have their memories wiped.
    I'd allow the target get a partial save. Maybe something like make two will saves. If succeed at both then the spell is negated, if fail both then the save DC for everyone else is increased by 2. No influence if succeed on exactly one save. That has the additional advantage that it makes a willing target able to more effectively have their existence wiped (since they just deliberately fail both saves).

    Flesh Formation
    I love this spell. No criticism. I just love this spell.

    Folly of Avor Ejir
    I'd include this as Sor/Wiz 9. I don't see why a mystic theurge who focuses on the arcane side shouldn't be able to use this spell. The vast majority of sorcerers and wizards won't be able to use it but it helps slightly make up for the MT being pretty underpowered.

    Forever Flesh
    Creatures that have this cast on them should also be immune to Flesh Formation.

    Grim Embrace
    Given how little this does I think you could reasonably make it be purely mental without a somatic component either. This is especially reasonable because one wants it to be subtle. If someone sees you spell casting before you shake their hand it isn't nearly as impressive. Alternatively, you could make it so that when casting they can choose either a somatic or verbal component, thus allowing the subtler of the two given the context.

    Dust to Dust
    You may want to specify that you cannot set the caster level required to some function higher than your own. One would not for example want a 17th level caster to pay 10,000 xp and then make it impossible for even deities to deal with it. I'd suggest limiting it to at most twice your caster level.


    Now a few more general comments: You've added a lot of spells to the Dread Necromancer class list. This may be a serious balance issue since DNs automatically know all spells on their class lists. Remember, the DN normally only gets 5 copies of Advanced Learning and the player must be very careful about what spells they choose. (I think I brought this issue up in another thread recently also). By my count you've about doubled the number of spells the DN has access to. That's going to potentially have serious balance repercussions even if a handful of the spells such as Grim Embrace and Forever Flesh are fluff than crunch.

    There's a second issue as well: Some of the spells you've added such as "Throne of Bone" and "Will of Vecna" don't quite fit with the DN's fluff wise. The Dread Necromancer is a spontaneous necromantic caster. Their spells are generic spells of the most general necromantic type, not set to do highly specific tasks. This makes the DN less of the necromancer prodigy and more just a generic necromancer.

    There's another partial flavor/partial mechanic issue. The Dread Necromancer normally only has 5 unique spells to each one, chosen by Advanced Learning. The DN becomes less customizable in a proportional sense the more spells it has as defaults. Again, roughly doubling the number of spells that the DN gets as default makes this more serious by a large fraction.
    Last edited by JoshuaZ; 2008-05-29 at 11:19 AM. Reason: adding comment on Dust to Dust

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    I may have something about fear you may be instead in.
    http://http://www.giantitp.com/forum...ad.php?t=75641
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Quote Originally Posted by D_Lord View Post
    I may have something about fear you may be instead in.
    http://http://www.giantitp.com/forum...ad.php?t=75641
    Your link is broken, D_Lord. You put an extra "http://" in there. But even when I removed that, I still found nothing.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Advanced Necromancy and Fear (60+ new spells, plus new mechanics!)

    Never could get links to work, but you could try clicking on my name and search for threads I started and look in Lords of Terror, Need help
    AvatarbyNeoSeph7

    I fought you all!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz_Fox View Post
    *Hugs for breaking the awkardness!YAAY!
    ...Realizes he's hugging a physical manifestation of evil...*
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins View Post
    He's adorable, but he's a threat to all who call the universe home. He must be stopped, no matter the cost
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Drake View Post
    "Evil, evil, death, stab, kill, cheese, moon-stuff, mice, evil, evil mice..."

    Musings Pulled from D_Lord's head.



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