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    Default [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Everyone, here is the new OOC thread... Please start using this one going forward.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Reposting from old thread:

    I think its best if we create all of our barrier(s) well beyond the sight of those in the fort, with the tombstone loaded golem stationed there on the fort side of the walls, and Forbiddance cast and shaped to cover the largest area we can. That way they will hopefully not even know about it until reinforcements reach that point, delaying them even further. The exception to this decision would be if most believe we should make some attempt at taking that fort ourselves, then erecting more barriers to the east of it, essentially choking off that portion of the mines at two strong points. I think this would strategically delay us too much from trying to reach the sword, but it does have some tactical value in the overall effort.

    Scrying several times a day for weeks should reveal much about not only the point we choose to create this multi-component barrier, but the route between there and the vault where we believe this sword to be. I presume some magic would've been in place previously to prevent scrying inside the vault? If not, it would be a good idea to have a look there as well.
    Last edited by Gryndel; 2014-05-23 at 11:28 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    I'll +1 the concept of Valina being an archivist with Lorekeeper levels. Not only does it fit her thematically, but it also gives her bardic knowledge.

    Summary of questions that Johannes would love to find answers for before we solidify a plan:

    • Golems: What kind can we build in time for the assault? Do we need to get any addiitonal materials to do so? Can we equip one with a tombstone?
    • Tombstone: Can we get one? How big is the antimagic area of effect? Does the antimagic effect require line of effect?
    • Fort: what do we see when we scry in and around it?
    • Tunnel: what do we see along its length?
    • Vault: what do we see when we scry in it, around it, etc?
    • Archives area: what do we see when we look at it?
    • What do we know about the 20 miles between the Halls and the vault area?
    • Roughly speaking, how far underground is the tunnel that we're talking about closing off?
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    I like all the stuff we're cooking up about getting in and blocking it off, but what's our escape plan? Teleportation? I'd like to have a few back-up plans if the party gets separated, if 'porting out doesn't work, etc.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    I'm hoping we can dimension door in and block the tunnel, then teleport out to rest/regain spells/not die. By then, the alarm about the invasion should have reached the vault 20 miles away, and we can teleport to it while the orcs etc that are normally there are instead dealing with the dwarf army.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    I'm hoping we can dimension door in and block the tunnel, then teleport out to rest/regain spells/not die. By then, the alarm about the invasion should have reached the vault 20 miles away, and we can teleport to it while the orcs etc that are normally there are instead dealing with the dwarf army.
    Will teleporting to the vault even be possible? I thought that the exact location of the vault was unknown.

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    We've got a few weeks of prep time our clerics and other casters can use to scry for more up to date information on the whole complex.

    I was writing a long post about how to collapse the tunnel but I just realized something. We don't need to. We just need to take the bridge fort and leave a strong enough garrison there to fend off the fleeing orcs and whatever reinforcements will arrive quickly enough to be a problem. Assuming a forbiddance on the whole area and an iron golem, 30 to 50 level 3 to 5 warriors with crossbows supported by 2 or 3 low level clerics and a few flamers would to the trick, so basically the forces of one of the smaller families if the Patriarchate can't/won't supply them. And since we'll have scryed the whole place beforehand we'll know if we should prepare to repair the place with walls of stone and/or iron. Taking it should be pretty easy, like I said in the IC thread, get the defenders looking in one direction and teleport the shock troops (IE us) inside the fort. Once we've taken it, we can rest up if the battle was particularly hard or go looking for the sword immediately
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    I don't think we're getting anything but our current party to be the force behind cutting off reinforcements. My assumption was that whatever forces the prince(s) muster will be the main force that takes the entirety of the Goldhammer Halls, rear fort included. We're to cut of reinforcements from the underdark and beyond, then retrieve the sword. *goes back to reread the objectives*

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Well, if we teleport, we don't need to know the exact location of the vault. We just need to know what the area looks like, and hope for the best. And with Mike's ruling that you can scry a location, that makes things much easier.

    I would strongly recommend in favour of a wall/tunnel collapse over a garrison in the fort area, even if that is an option. Such a force would be great against orcs, but would have no chance against devils. While the devils can't teleport into the area of a forbiddance, and will take some damage upon entry (possibly), they can still fly in and (with damage reduction and fire resistance) be nearly unkillable. Sadly.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Good point....
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    In no particular order....

    1. While you guys are certainly better trained IC than the Tethyamar troops are, as for most this is their first real battle, dealing with the devils has crossed their mind but you may want to engage them on that point regarding the "how".

    2. I am indeed ok with scrying out a location. While sensitive areas would quite reasonably have warding, 99% of the place does not so if you invest the time and resources (and why would you not?), you should have a good idea about what you're going to be facing.

    3. I think we need to remember the scale of an Iron Golem here. So I will include an excerpt from the SRD...

    Construction

    An iron golemís body is sculpted from 5,000 pounds of pure iron, smelted with rare tinctures and admixtures costing at least 10,000 gp. Assembling the body requires a DC 20 Craft (armorsmithing) check or a DC 20 Craft (weaponsmithing) check.

    CL 16th; Craft Construct, cloudkill, geas/quest, limited wish, caster must be at least 16th level; Price 150,000 gp; Cost 80,000 gp + 5,600 XP.


    Realistically, I do not see how you folks are going to A) Carry in 5,000 lbs B) Do we even have 80,000 gold? The Patriarchate has gold, but they're not making that kind of investment on a one use golem C) You cannot teleport it, and you cannot walk it in fully assembled except through the front door. Even a stone golem would be quite expensive. If you can put together either one of them, and the stone one is much more practical, would it not be better used supporting the Tethyamar troops coming in the front door? Assembly would take hours, and while you could shrink the body of a complete golem, you need a very high level caster to do it on site. Or if it is already a live golem, well it's immune to magic so what are you going to do?

    How about some elementals though?

    4. Holding the Fort: As campaign's scale up, it is important that we keep things in perspective. Especially for me, the DM. A great mercenary company like the Flaming Fists is mainly populated by 2nd and 3rd level mercs and as rank in file troops go, that is pretty elite. Your group, as individuals, are all quite exceptional warriors really. I would probably call a dwarf unit no greater than level 2 for most troops except the officers/heroes. While 50 or so troops backed by a golem would be quite effective at holding the fort, how you get the troops and the golem there in the first place is a bit tough. It's a pretty bold move, and that's what you guys are there for, not the soldiers. I would say Tezster would probably veto that plan.

    5. Yes, you can get a tombstone even if you can't get a golem for a rear attack, at least. If it's recovered by the enemy, they may turn it against you. Or they may think it's a pretty rock and worship it. Only the Dice God knows.

    6. The tunnel itself is probably a thousand feet underground. It's some distance, but not like deep Underdark stuff. Speaking of deep Underdark though, who can spot the Easter Egg I left you on the map as a way to help out the attack?

    DM Summary: Here is my take, and hence Buna and Valina's summary of what we have on the table at this point...

    1. We block the tunnel either: A) Collapse it or B) With Walls or C) With a collapse and Walls
    2. The Tombstone: A) We leave one B) We don't leave one.
    3. Forbiddance A) Yes B) No

    If the answer to 2 is A, the answer to 3 is B - NO, unless you are putting the tombstone (and hence the collapse) far away from the stone (figure an effective range of 500 to 1000 feet. No one is ever sure with those things.

    As a radical plan on the table, you COULD try to go for the sword first, and if you get it, give it to the Prince so as to aid his assault. The downside is you won't just have the guards but reinforcements to deal with, and pretty much they will keep coming until you portal out or die.

    Either way, you should probably consider resting somewhere. You need the map to figure that out, which I'll get to.
    "Clerics: Just because they heal you, it doesn't mean they like you."

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    The biggest problem with elementals is the length of time a summoned elemental stays is very limited. Even at a CL10, it will only stay 10 rounds. Though I suppose we could try using it in conjunction with a contingency spell to trigger the summoning once someone (evil) enters the warded area or tries to break through the walls we put up...

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    This is true, yet they can also be bargained with to perform a task too like a summons, right? I've never really thrown one at you but they can be binded right? So someone explain how it's done. Or let's go crazy and go celestial? Or maybe hire Hextor's Legion of Doom/Yugoloths again? THAT would be entertaining.

    Think sand box.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Sorry, I've never really played a campaign at this level and it's been a while since I did any op stuff, so I think I'm a little beyond my depth here.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Thematically, the Hammer Archon (Races of Stone, pg 188) might be a useful and appropriate binding. Their purpose is to help good dwarves etc against the nasty races, so this fight is right up their alley. Decent combat abilities, earth glide (so could maneuver around walls or cave-ins), and the ability to create and shape a few walls for him/herself. Just a thought.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    I just looked it up and it would work awesomely for our purpose. The trick is summoning it with planar binding. Can Buna cast level 6 spells? I would assume that if you're calling an outsider to get it to do it's thing it won't mind too much right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Summon Monster VIII is required to summon a hammer archon. That's an 8th level spell. You need to be a 16th level caster to have 8th level spells, though I suppose it's possible for Buna to use a scroll with a small chance of a mishap.

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Grodech View Post
    Summon Monster VIII is required to summon a hammer archon. That's an 8th level spell. You need to be a 16th level caster to have 8th level spells, though I suppose it's possible for Buna to use a scroll with a small chance of a mishap.
    Could we persuade one to join our cause via Planar Binding or Planar Ally? That way it's only a 6th-level spell, and more within reach for either us or Buna.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2014-05-29 at 08:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Yeah I was talking about planar binding. Supposing we manage it, the spell works for up to 12 HD of creature. The hammer archon has 10, but I'm sure that between Thordrek and Valina we can find out the name of a particular one with 12 HD that has a history of helping retake or protect dwarven holds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
    So what do you think? What is best use for Signatures?
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Would the hammer archon's earth glide work within the range of a tombstone?

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Per RAW, yes it would suppress any supernatural abilities. Oddly enough, Wall of Force is NOT impacted if it's already cast.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    To clarify, Mike: is a Tombstone's antimagic limited to line of effect? There are advantages and disadvantages both ways. Presumably, our previous experience with them in Sigil would tell us.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Area of effect is a 500 to 1000 ft radius, nothing blocks or stops it. The radius is the radius.
    "Clerics: Just because they heal you, it doesn't mean they like you."

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Um. Wow. It's a pity we don't have more Tome of Battle types in the group. They could just carry the tombstone through the complex curbstomping everything.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Ok, so until we have the results of scrying we're kind of at a standstill on planning, right? I know ideas are still being floated, but it seems to me that until we know how long the tunnel is before we start encountering branches and such there's no way to finalize what we're going to put where.

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Agreed.

    We now know that the fort is well within range of a couple of Dimension doors. That means that, with Buna and Valina, we have ample power to get in and out of the tunnel complex in a reasonably sure manner (even if it takes both of them to get all of us in or out). Teleporting out works in a pinch, because it matters less if we're a little off target. But if we're using the tombstone, we have to factor in a way to, quickly and without magic, get a thousand feet in some direction before we can port out.
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I chose this feat to represent a sacrifice on Nalrak's part, so rather than think of loopholes, he's going to be the type to hold to the letter of the law. I'm sure we can think of other options.
    To OMG's point about Nalrak casting from the scroll (or the lack of ability to do so), does he have access to the spell normally that he can prepare it for the day, or is it above his pay grade?

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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    It's a level 6 spell so he can cast it, but I don't know how the VOP interacts with the 2500 go per 60 foot area required for the spell.... Can Johanness reliably get a 30 on Use Magic Device? He could cast it as if he were LG. If not an elixir of UMD is pretty cheap
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
    So what do you think? What is best use for Signatures?
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    Quote Originally Posted by thorgrim29 View Post
    It's a level 6 spell so he can cast it, but I don't know how the VOP interacts with the 2500 go per 60 foot area required for the spell.... Can Johanness reliably get a 30 on Use Magic Device? He could cast it as if he were LG. If not an elixir of UMD is pretty cheap
    Unless we did some more leveling I don't know about, I've only got 5th level spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5E] Heretic's Bane Dwarf Campaign OOC Thread 2

    For some obscure and unknown reason I thought we were level 11...
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenflame133 View Post
    So what do you think? What is best use for Signatures?
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