Alter self

[Cowboy_ninja]

You can alter self into the same type as your normal form. what about subtype? does subtype limit? my character will most likely be humanoid so i can turn into any humanoid but what about things like bugbear (humanoid goblinoid)

[Fax Celestis]

If you're going for alter self cheese, start as an Elan, the only LA+0 Aberration. That means alter self into things like beholders, aboleths, and mindflayers.

[oriong]

Subtype is not restricted, however you do not gain the new subtype (so transforming into something with the reptilian subtype does not give you the reptilian subtype.

[Amiria]

If you're going for alter self cheese, start as an Elan, the only LA+0 Aberration. That means alter self into things like beholders, aboleths, and mindflayers.

Doesn't work with any of your examples.

"The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level."

But I'm sure that there are some interesting 5 HD or less abberations out there ...

[Fax Celestis]

Doesn't work with any of your examples.



But I'm sure that there are some interesting 5 HD or less abberations out there ...

Right, right, wrong spell. But the point remains the same.

[Josh Inno]

Darn, is the tri-minded aberration psionic race from complete psionic a +something LA creature? I thought it was a +0. Don't have my books in front of me.

[Bears With Lasers]

No, if you're going for Alter Self cheese, be a Lesser Aasimar (PGtF) or take the Otherwoldly regional feat. Outsider type ->Alter Self into a Dwarf Ancestor -> +18 Natural Armor.

[The_Snark]

If you're an elan, Grell is available as an alter self subject. Ten natural attacks, paralysis, flight, blindsight, and awe-inspiring grappling capabilities? I'll take it.

Pretty sure synads are LA +1, but I could easily be wrong.

[Bears With Lasers]

You only get "gross physical qualities". Which, of course, includes natural attacks, so yeah, the Grell is hardly a bad idea.

[The_Snark]

Interesting. I wonder if that includes the flight ability, then? It's an extraordinary ability, so presumably the result of buoyancy rather than magic, but it's a toss-up whether that counts as a physical ability. And not having blindsight could be problematic, since grell don't have eyes.

[oriong]

It says you gain all mundane movement abilities of the creature, and I'd suppose anything that isn't a supernatural or spell like ability is mundane.

[cupkeyk]

No, if you're going for Alter Self cheese, be a Lesser Aasimar (PGtF) or take the Otherwoldly regional feat. Outsider type ->Alter Self into a Dwarf Ancestor -> +18 Natural Armor.

Lesser Aasimars from PGtF are Humanoids, not outsiders.

[Bears With Lasers]

Lesser Aasimars from PGtF are Humanoids, not outsiders.

Ah, my bad. Neraph (Planar Handbook), or the Otherworldly feat, or et cetera for the tasty Natural Armor.

[Starbuck_II]

Doesn't work with any of your examples.



But I'm sure that there are some interesting 5 HD or less abberations out there ...

What about baby/tiny Beholders called Gaunts?

[Talya]

Some useful humanoid races for Alter Self:

Averiel (FR)/Raptoran (Races of the wild) -Alter Self specifically grants you fly if the species you transform into has winged flight, or any other movement based on mundane physical characteristics
Goliath (races of stone) - Gotta love "Large Build."
Aquatic Anything - Surely you can see how this would be useful.

[cupkeyk]

It would be easier to just select an actual large humanoid as a form, since selecting goliath does not grant you powerful build as that is an extraordinary Special Quality.

Since subtypes do not change, having a swim speed but no ability to breathe water is not as useful.

[Talya]

Based on the listed rationale in the spell description, I'd say you gain breathe water if your new form has gills.

"You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal."

[cupkeyk]

Actually presense or absense of gills(or porous skin with many amphibians) is irrelevant. You need the aquatic, water or amphibious subtype to breathe water which you can't get through Alter elf.

Check out the toad. Although we all know toad can breathe in water due to its skin, it will drown in DnD water since it doesn't have the amphibious type. Even Creatures with swim speeds do not necessarily have the ability to breathe water, EG, Polar Bear.

Since Alter Self is a spell, I assume that the person using it is a caster. He just crippled himself by preventing himself from casting any spell with verbal components since he immediately starts drowning when he casts.

I guess its an escape route but if you have a round just dimension door or something.