Prestige Classes for Fallen Paladins

[tsatthoggua]

Greetings,

Besides the classic Blackguard and the Ronin from CW IIRC (I might be wrong), are there other published PrCs that benefit from previously acquired paladin levels?

Thanks in advance.

[Rabiesbunny]

I don't know about PrCs, but if a Paladin falls, could their Paladin levels behind them, and possibly every next level, be converted over to paladin of Tyranny or Slaughter? (<3 Boy, I love Tyranny!)

And I forget, does Paladin count as a divine caster, technically? If so, Divine Champion or Divine Disciple of their new evil deity (...if they worship a god, accursed core books) is a possibility.

[oriong]

Ronin regain abilities from being former samurai, not paladins. And I don't believe there are any other 'fallen paladin' classes.

EDIT: A paladin is a divine caster if he can cast divine spells, a fallen paladin cannot cast any spells he could when he was a paladin, therefore he no longer is considered a spellcaster.

[tsatthoggua]

Yeah, the Paladin of Tyranny was a replacement I had in mind.

Another concept I was thinking about is a "reluctant servant", a Paladin that commited immoral deeds but that honestly believes they were acts of justice and goodness, it suffers from a delusion.

[Rabiesbunny]

Oh. See, you can tell I've never played a Paladin before. Otherwise, I would know that -- they'd all turn up fallen.

I'm a HUGE fan of Paladin of Tyranny, so I'd highly suggest that. If you kept going in that, you could multiclass then into any kind of divine PrC that includes almost full spell progression, of which Faerun has a LOT.

But I'm evil like that. *Prance*

[Dhavaer]

Yeah, the Paladin of Tyranny was a replacement I had in mind.

Another concept I was thinking about is a "reluctant servant", a Paladin that commited immoral deeds but that honestly believes they were acts of justice and goodness, it suffers from a delusion.

Have a look at the Shadowbane Inquisitor, from Complete Adventurer.

[tsatthoggua]

I'll describe briefly the case in point. My character's cultural background in the DM's homebrew world is modelled over fundamentalist Islam, worshipping above all a solar deity (same portfolio as Pelor). He shares extreme devotion, above all, to his deity, family, people and church. The party was sent to a mission to capture a very relevant religious artifact to a certain site but my character has been informed previously by the grand priest of his church, and his most loyal tutor, that the artifact in question was righteously justified to be delivered to his hands. There is a great war going on and the army that carries this McGuffin with the appropriate bearer may decide the final victory.

My character did as he was appointed by his former master because the moral imperative of loyalty over his church supervenes the moral commitment of the official objective of his mission, to recover the artifact and deliver it somewhere else. What my character was not aware of is that his former master was in a path of corruption and had other interests with this artifact.

I've failed my personal quest to return to my kingdom and, having been captured by party members, got imprisioned. I am now having more interest to follow a path of darkness instead of atonement and redemption but the requirements for Blackguard are too unrealistic for my current character.

Well, that's the story.

[Duraska]

I recommend... FIGHTER.

You can always roleplay all the other elements.

[tsatthoggua]

Have a look at the Shadowbane Inquisitor, from Complete Adventurer.

Oh, thanks for this suggestion, it offers an interesting possibility. Two more levels of Rogue and I'll meet the requirements plus it will be easier to turn into a Blackguard afterwards.

[oriong]

The problem is a fallen paladin can't qualify for Shadowbane inquisitor, since they lack the ability to detect evil or turn undead after they fall.

[tsatthoggua]

That's right, but I might by now use atonement and later fall from grace - for good!

I remembered another possibility, althought not a class and which I also unfortuantely don't meet the requirements; the Death Knight template.

[Zincorium]

The problem is a fallen paladin can't qualify for Shadowbane inquisitor, since they lack the ability to detect evil or turn undead after they fall.

And they lack the ability to continue to progress after they cease to be lawful good. Generally, Shadowbane inquisitor is an awesome PrC for paladins, and it happens to be an excellent choice for those who later fall, since you retain what abilities were granted and Shadowbane inquisitor levels count as 'fallen paladin' levels for the purpose of blackguard, which usually means you can turn in most of your actual paladin levels and still get the benefits.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Another option is the Bone Knight class from the Eberron setting's Five Nations supplement. It's a Blackguard-esque class that focuses around melee combat, weapon crafting, and undead command, meant to represent corrupt "Paladins" of a necromantic cult, and/or the elite commanders of a nation known for its battalions of undead soldiers. I don't have the book in front of me, but the non-roleplaying prerequisites are something like Nongood, Turn or Rebuke Undead, BAB +4, Craft Weaponsmithing 3 ranks. I believe it was stated that Paladins qualify for it, even thought nongood pallies can't actually use Turn Undead.

Might not be what you're looking for, but it's easier to get into and has more interesting abilities than the Blackguard.

[Kantolin]

*Grumblecakes* I was hoping someone here would coincidentally have a class for a Paladin who falls but remains lawful good. Theological differences for a Paladin who follows a diety, or simply a world-shattering event.

Oh, well. Home~brew! Or possibly fighter levels and roleplay. ^_^

[Zincorium]

*Grumblecakes* I was hoping someone here would coincidentally have a class for a Paladin who falls but remains lawful good. Theological differences for a Paladin who follows a diety, or simply a world-shattering event.

Oh, well. Home~brew! Or possibly fighter levels and roleplay. ^_^

Good news, the bone knight Nerd-o-Rama mentions has no alignment requirement at all. It's entirely possible, and actually fitting considering the nation it comes from, for a lawful good bone knight to be an ex-paladin simply because they associated with 'evil' (as all undead are according to D&D) but are still lawful good in thought and behaviour.

That, and it's a nifty class. Go into cleric for a level or two though, or it's not particularly good mechanically.

[joe]

Heroes of Horror has the Corrupt Avenger which gains extra abilities for Fallen Paladin levels, and definately worth looking into.

More obscurely, there is a Prestige Class in the DragonLance: Age of Mortals book "The Rogue Knight" which while isn't directly Paladin based, follows in a similar theme.

Neither of them require an actual alignment change, and the Corrupt Avenger can not be evil, so either of them might do you well.

[cupkeyk]

Uhm, How about Ur-Priest? Flavor-wise, its just right. If a Level 11 Fallen Paladin takes one level of Ur Priest before heading to BlackGuard he can net Fallen Paladin 2/ Blackguard 10/ Ur-Priest 8 by level 20, since Ur-Priest only requires that you are a non divine caster when entering the class and is not retroactively detrimental.

As for a fallen paladin who still wants to cling to his morals, there is the Corrupt Avenger from Heroes of Horror that nets some cumulative abilities for fallen paladin levels:
1-2 Additional use of Tainted Strike
3-4 Lay on Hands
5-6 Additional Use of Tainted Strike; +2 to sworn Foe
7-8 Bonus Tainted Feat
9-10 Additional use of Tainted Strike. Deathknell benefits once per day when performing Coup de Grace.

[JaronK]

He wants to still be good, so Ur Priest is out.

Bone Knight was going to be my suggestion too. It represents someone who thinks like a paladin, but realizes that the use of undead is valuable. Basically, they have the same values as a paladin but is in some way tainted and unable to persue that path.

JaronK

[Closet_Skeleton]

Holy Liberator from Defenders of the Faith (possibly updated in Complete Divine?) is CG but some things stack with ex-paladin levels.

[lared]

Grey Guard in Complete Scoundrel might work, but it's more a class that you take before your paladin does the sort of things that would put him at risk of falling.

[cupkeyk]

Holy Liberator is page 45 of Complete Divine and lets Fallen Paladin Levels augment a holy liberators caster level and available spells and smite evil per day. Hmmmnkay, not bad.

Grey Guards prerequire Lay on Hands and thus cannot be accessed by fallen paladins. But they are a more lenient class than paladins, recognizing heinous acts are necessary to thwart evil.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yeah, that's what I get for not looking up the reference. The Grey Guard as recommended is also a good one, but it's more for current Paladins who recognize that the end sometimes justifies the means.