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2007-02-22, 02:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Warren, MI
- Gender
Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I'm thinking of making an awakened cat (i.e. housecat) as a PC. At first I was going to go with Barbarian, just 'cause that would be cool, but now I'm starting to think along the lines of Rogue, because of all the Hide and Move silently bonuses. How does Sneak Attack work for tiny creatures? What about making him a Monk? I guess I could always just make him a spellcaster, especialy a Druid, but that kind of goes against the charm of playing an intentionally nerfed character if I can just turn into a Dire Ape. Any suggestions?
Here's the base stats for a cat:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htmLooking for d20 Modern, D&D, Mutants and Masterminds, Spirit of the Century, heck, I'll take anything, in the general vicinity of Warren, MI. Send PM.
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2007-02-22, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
There are a couple of ways to go with this.
You could go spellcaster, in which case tiny size wouldn't be all that bad because you wouldn't want to do hand to hand and you'd be harder to hit. Another route is a rogue or bard based on Puss 'n Boots. Really cunning, smart, tricky, etc.
If you're looking at something like barb or monk, just make sure that playing a char not optimized for combat isn't going to annoy the rest of the party. Chars who don't pull their weight in combat can get annoying fast.
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2007-02-22, 02:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
An awakened cat is far from nerfed (unless you do play the fighter/barbarian), they're overpowered.
Cats (and their like) are either insanely weak (for straight combat classes) or they're insanely overpowered (for just about anything else). This makes it pretty much impossible to set a decent LA for them.
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2007-02-22, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I really wanted to play an awakened goldfish psion at one point. It'd swim in a bowl carried by another PC. Psion would likely be a decent idea for a cat, because your enemies would never know that it was Fluffy who just Ego Whipped them.
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2007-02-22, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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2007-02-22, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Warren, MI
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Looking for d20 Modern, D&D, Mutants and Masterminds, Spirit of the Century, heck, I'll take anything, in the general vicinity of Warren, MI. Send PM.
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2007-02-22, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
I keep my stories in a blog. You should read them.
5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2007-02-22, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Alaska
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Just remember that as a Tiny creature, you have no natural reach and need to enter a target's square to make melee attacks of any kind. You'll be provoking AoOs like crazy, so Mobility is nearly a must-have.
Weapons will also be a problem. I'd recommend either Improved Natural Attack for your claws or a mouthpick weapon enchantment from Lords of Madness. I think there's some magic items in Savage Species that would let you use regular weapons (Sized appropriately, of course). Gloves, if memory serves.
If you want to play a Druid, you can play off the Halfling Druid substitution levels in Races of the Wild, get your DM to work with you, and make it so you can only turn into respectively smaller forms with wild shape. For instance, when you first get wild shape, you could turn into Tiny and Diminutive creatures only. This would mean your maximum size would be a Medium creature at 15th level.
Personally, I'd recommend a caster class rather than a melee class. If you're only using core, go for a sorcerer rather than a wizard, because you may have a distinctly hard time accessing your spellbook at times. Cleric would also work.
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2007-02-22, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I'd agree with oriong - to make an effective character, you probably don't want to be a fighter, barbarian, monk, ranger, templar or paladin, but most of the other classes would work all right. If you're looking for a spy character, a rogue, Urban Ranger or bard might work; if you want sheer insanity, a spellcaster. (Black cat sorcerer? Hmm . . . *scribbles down on To Do List*)
Truth in advertising: I have played an Awakened Small Dog Druid named Carcharoth (and hooray for anyone at all who understands that name), and it was fun to see the reactions of NPC evildoers who found themselves getting smushed by a small shepherd-ish doggie. My main character also has two awakened guard dogs, although at high levels they're pretty useless in a fight.Surgeon General's Warning:
This Universe contains substances known to the state of California to cause birth defects, cancer, premature death, heart disease, nausea, rash, vomiting, acne, and dandruff.
So get over it!
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2007-02-22, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I am a poor man, some say I’m half crazy,
son of the sword and the knife
Lady I pledge you my sword and my honor,
my heart and my pride and my life
--Bella Dońa, by Joe Bethancourt
Spoiler
Alas, poor Draknir. By Mephibosheth
Owl-atar by KingGolem
You will be missed, dear 'stache...
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2007-02-22, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- Elsewhere
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Advice: be male.
Otherwise someone is gonna bring up a physics question and *BAM* - there goes the character you worked so hard on.Amazing Zealot avatar by Elder Tsofu.
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2007-02-22, 03:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Warren, MI
- Gender
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2007-02-22, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Location
- Duvall, WA
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
You're going to run into the difficulty of no hands. The easiest way around this is a magical item with Mage Hand.
The DM may not allow you to play a spellcaster, or ban you from casting any spell with somantic components. Some DMs will allow it, but some won't. RAW is unclear on the matter.
As the party goes up levels, you will become increasingly ineffective in melee combat, due to the limited ways of you getting magical attack items, lack of effective reach leading to AoOs, and with no ability to use a ranged weapon.
Sneak attacks may or may not work effectively, depending on DM ruling. You technically can't flank because you have to be in the same square as your opponent to hit them (that reach issue again). That limits the sneak attack opportunities.
Because of all the DM rulings needed, you should probably ask the DM about some of these technicalities before deciding on a class. Here is my evaluation so far:
Fighter: There's a limited number of feats that can actually help with natural weapons, so this is somewhat sub-par.
Ranger: The fighting style class feature isn't going to help you at all, unless the DM allows a variant style that will help with your natural weapons. As a partial spellcaster, if there are limitations on spellcasting, this feature becomes useless.
Paladin: I think this would be just so silly/cool. I can't evaluate it properly because every time I think of it, I laugh too hard.
Barbarian: Rage is good, and the increased base speed is good. If the problems with melee doesn't deter you, this might work.
Cleric: Possible spellcaster issues, as mentioned above. The cleric's main advantage of being a tank + full spellcaster doesn't really apply here, so all you'll get out of it is a full divine spellcaster. Nothing to sneeze at, but it won't be CoDzilla.
Druid: Wildshape becomes interesting, as you need to find approprate sized creatures to wildshape into. This changes the balance of the class considerably, and may deter you from it. Otherwise, it's a full spellcaster and may be affected by the spellcaster limitations above.
Wizard: Spellcaster limitations possible. The DM may also restrict you to spells you research yourself, as 'humanoid' spells from found spellbooks may not work properly. If this is true, Wizard is not a good class at all for you.
Sorcerer: Spellcaster limitations, as always, but at least you don't have to deal with the spell research issue that Wizards might have.
Rogue: Lack of flanking hurts this class a lot, and lack of hands pretty much elminates a lot of skills, so without DM rulings to aleivate that, this one hurts.
Bard: No hands mean a lot of skills become pointless, all musical instruments require hands of some kind, so unless the DM allows vocalization to replace musical instruments, again, not a good choice.
Monk: I'm not sure about this one. I'm vaguely aware of a natural weapons/flurry issue, but I've not looked into the issue before so I can't comment on that. Otherwise, it does compensate somewhat for the lack of magic armor/weapons you're going to run into. Again, combat at your size is going to be a problem no matter what the class, so this might be one of the viable combat classes for you.
Psionics: I don't have the new 3.5 version of the psionics classes, so I can't evaluate these ones properly.Fhaolan by me! Raga avatar by Mephibosheth!
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2007-02-22, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Treat it like a Natural Werecat (applied to any LA 0 Small race). That's LA +3, no racial HD. This guy gets two extra racial HD and loses his ability to shift into any form except animal form, the Iron Will feat, the Scent ability, the Curse of Lycanthropy ability, the DR 10/silver, and probably a couple of other things I'm overlooking. He gains the ability to talk in animal form. If an Awakened Cat is overpowered, then lycanthropes (that is, ones with Small or Tiny base creatures) must be absolutely godlike. In actuality, the racial HD and any LA he gets stuck with (as I pointed out above, considering him anywhere above ECL 3 is probably unfair, and he can't go below ECL 2) will harm his spellcasting/manifesting abilities, and his fighting abilities will be harmed by everything else about a cat (no reach, no items, abysmal strength, etc).
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2007-02-22, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I do think that a werecat is overpowered. It's also not legal unless you're a halfling, but yes a werecat would be abusive. Which shouldn't be shocking since the lycanthrope template doesn't differentiate between different types of animals in the slightest.
The problem with a cat is that they are too unbalanced to be viable player characters, and note, I'm not talking about 'unbalanced' in terms of abuse here, I'm talking a bit more literally. Their abilities are incredibly tilted. Cats have reached a point where their weaknesses are no longer weaknesses simply because they have no option but to pick a class where these weaknesses don't matter, and most classes which would ignore the weaknesses are also ones that benefit most from the cat's strengths. The strength score, the reach, this doesn't actually matter because anyone playing a cat (who isn't simply looking to screw themselves) will almost never engage in 'traditional' melee combat. (cat's can wear almost any magical items humans can by the way, with a bit of modification at worst).
The problem also comes up with what LA to give the creature since it's so vastly weighed towards a handful of classes, while being incredibly poor at every other class. Most LA ratings will make the cat worthless, or too powerful.
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2007-02-22, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Central Texas
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
If you DM has a problem with a spellcaster's somatic components, there's a feat - Surrogate Spellcasting - In Savage Species that will fix it. You need a 13 Wis, I think, and it allows you to substitute any natural movement for somatic components. I pretty sure that's how it works, but I'm not near my books right now, so I can't guarantee it.
I think taking a natural Werecat's LA is too high. A +3 is too high, considering the fact that a Werecat also gets all the things you pointed out (change shape, Iron Will, Damage Reduction, Curse of Lycanthropy, Wis bonus, ect.) As well, unlike a Werecat, the Awaken spell gives you 2 Animal HD, which are about as useful as Humanoid HD. I'd says a +1 or +2, leaning more towards +1, considering the fact that you are taking HD as well, which will reduce your caster level if you go for a caster, the races best option.
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2007-02-22, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- Tenochtitlán (aka: Mexico City)
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Have you read about Greebo?
Pure evil Rogue/Barbarian in a small package, with the added protection of a powerful witch that insists (against all evidence) that he is "just a big softie, just shoo him off if he's being a bother!"-
Is it evil, Evil, Evil or EVIL?
Expanded Alignment Rules (PEACH)
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Playing a Paladin? Don't fall into the traps of casuistry or excessive rigourism!
Instead of that, read Peregrine's lesson
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"It's almost like the universe is trying to deliberately force some form of arbitrary equality between those of us who can reshape matter with our thoughts and those who cannot!"
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2007-02-22, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Fairfield, CA
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
You could try an awakened Tressym instead of a housecat. You get wings!
I had an idea once to play an awakened tressym duskblade. It'd be fun.Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2007-02-22, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
- Location
- BFE
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
SpoilerBossing Around Mad Cats for Fun and Profit: Let's Play MechCommander 2!
Kicking this LP into overdrive: Let's Play StarCraft 2!
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2007-02-22, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Perth
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
Psion is probably the way to go. Like a spellcaster your tiny size becomes much less of a problem but unlike a spellcaster you wouldn’t have to worry about trying to cast somatic components with paws.
Last edited by Quezovercoatl; 2007-02-22 at 12:34 PM.
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2007-02-22, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
The three racial HD are going to blow for any spell-caster, it has to be said. The LA should be +1 or +2 at the very most. As for classes, definitely go with Psion :)
Edit: Apply the Winged template and stick with base LA+0. That way, you have 3 HD and +2 LA overall.Last edited by Caelestion; 2007-02-22 at 01:51 PM.
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2007-02-22, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
I've got to say, my main advice was going to be to go the puss in boots rout, but that's already been covered.
My main concern with that, though, is if you can manage to hold the sword correctly.
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2007-02-22, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
- Location
- Oxford, UK
- Gender
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2007-02-22, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: Awakened cat PC-suggestions appreciated
"Route", pronounced "root" if you're not American. It's a French word.
Winged Cat (Felis avian)
-8 Str, +8 Dex, +4 Wis. (Assumes 10s on 3d6 Int and 7+1d3 Cha).
Size/Type: Tiny Magical Beast (augmented animal).
Speed: 30 ft. land speed, Fly 50 ft. (Perfect).
Special Qualities: Lowlight vision and scent.
Racial Hit Dice: Its three levels of animal, which grant 3d8 hp, +2 BAB and base saves of Fort +3, Ref +3 and Will +1.
Racial Skills: Its three animal levels grant 6x (2 + Int bonus) skill points. Its class skills are Balance, Hide, Climb, Jump, Listen, Move Silently and Spot.
Racial Feats: Its three animals levels grant it two feats.
A Winged Cat has a +4 racial bonus to Climb, Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Jump checks. In tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus rises to +8.
A Winged Cat uses its Dexterity instead of their Strength for Climb and Jump checks.
Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Auran, Elven, Sylvan.
Favoured Class: Ranger.
Level Adjustment: +2. With its 3 racial HD and its LA +2, Winged Cats have a base ECL of 5.