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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LVIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT on Tuesday, July 1st, 2014 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Kuulvheysoon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT on Tuesday, July 15th, 2014 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
    20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities

    Code immediately below (spoiler).
    Spoiler
    Show
    [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
    [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]New Class Level[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]+x[/td]
    [td]Skills[/td]
    [td]Feats[/td]
    [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Spells per Day/Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st - - - - - - - - - -
    2nd - - - - - - - - - -
    3rd - - - - - - - - - -
    4th - - - - - - - - - -
    5th - - - - - - - - - -
    6th - - - - - - - - - -
    7th - - - - - - - - - -
    8th - - - - - - - - - -
    9th - - - - - - - - - -
    10th - - - - - - - - - -
    11th - - - - - - - - - -
    12th - - - - - - - - - -
    13th - - - - - - - - - -
    14th - - - - - - - - - -
    15th - - - - - - - - - -
    16th - - - - - - - - - -
    17th - - - - - - - - - -
    18th - - - - - - - - - -
    19th - - - - - - - - - -
    20th - - - - - - - - - -
    Code immediately below (spoiler)
    Spoiler
    Show
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
    [table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
    [tr]
    [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
    [th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
    [th][B]1st[/B][/th]
    [th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
    [th][B]4th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]5th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]6th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]7th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]8th[/B][/th]
    [th][B]9th[/B][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]1st[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]2nd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3rd[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]4th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]5th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]6th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]7th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]8th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]9th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]10th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]11th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]12th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]13th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]14th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]15th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]17th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]18th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]19th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]20th[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [td]-[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Complete Warrior's Spellsword!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez, optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Spoiler: The First Fifty
    Show
    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior
    Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja
    Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus
    Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger

    Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot
    Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight
    Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite
    Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer
    Iron Chef LV: Mountebank
    Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender
    Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    FAQ:
    What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Kuulvheysoon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    Ruling on Generic Classes? It's now tucked away in the OP -
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Chef OP
    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
    Channel Spell - is it cast or not? Despite the strange wording, yes, you do cast the spell (or, at least, that's my interpretation on it, and so we'll treat it as such). So you do use up any expensive material components, optional components and XP costs.
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2014-06-22 at 11:12 PM.

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    INB4Trolls... oh wait I'm already here.
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    I have what I think is a pretty good idea already...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Well, I haven't done so well in previous competitions, but I really like this one, so we'll see, I may enter.

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    That's unexpected. I'll consider whether I'd rather enter, or judge, this round.
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    Spellsword, eh? I'll need to review the source. Also, fun fact: if we get 16 contestants this round, we'll be at 700 entries through all the rounds of Iron Chef here on GitP!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    This one is so good I am not even touching it, really there are so many possibilities that are all amazing that I know I wont make it even in the top ten. Good luck everyone.

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    If I have at least two abilities that give the capacity to use a second level spell at will, would that met the class's prerequisite?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irk View Post
    If I have at least two abilities that give the capacity to use a second level spell at will, would that met the class's prerequisite?
    No, Complete Arcane pg 72 gives a good explanation as to why.
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    Why must the channel spell uses be limited to 5/day? Why?

    I have some ideas, but they aren't really lasting throughout the day. Maybe I'll judge this one. I'll take some time to think on it.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    allready got 2 prehaps 3 protentials ... one of them is very interesting since i'm fairly certain its not intended to work but does

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    I had a pretty interesting idea, but then I realized that Fractional BaB was just a semi-houserule I'd been used to forever and not an actual rule that I could use.

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    I've got a stub figured out. Should work fairly well I think.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Hello everyone, I'm sort of new here. I think I would like to compete in this one. I don't expect to win or even place; but who knows, maybe I'll learn something. The SI seems like a good one with plenty of possibilities, should be fun.

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    Kicking some ideas around, but I have some rules questions along the way:

    1. The SI only calls out gaining "spells per day" at odd levels...should we take that to increase "spells known" as well for applicable classes or not?
    2. Assuming the bonus feat @ level 2 is a fighter feat, would an entry be restricted to fighter feats from the PHB alone? It mentions the PHB list but doesn't seem to do so in a restrictive manner.
    3. Does the required ability to cast 2nd-level spells mean that the entry must:
      • Know/memorize/be able to select more than one unique 2nd level spell?
      • Be able to cast more than one 2nd level spell per day (Even if it's the same spell twice)? Or...
      • Be able to cast at least one 2nd level spell per day (thus casting second level spells over the course of two or more days)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Bard View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm sort of new here. I think I would like to compete in this one. I don't expect to win or even place; but who knows, maybe I'll learn something. The SI seems like a good one with plenty of possibilities, should be fun.
    Welcome! Warning: bad puns, all levels of optimization, and good fun await. Abandon all hope of productivity, ye who enter here.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2014-06-18 at 06:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Spellsword!

    But I have my Shiba Protector build all ready to go! Though in all seriousness, as much as I love Oriental Adventures, the inevitable question would have to be addressed--do we accept the Dragon 319 3.5 updates or not?

    I should have guessed this ingredient with the hints, especially since we had a few in the Duskblade round of Zinc Saucier.

    I will definitely be in one way or the other as per usual.

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    But ... but ... isn't this ingredient a reasonably potent one by itself? I ... I don't even know what to do with good ingredients anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    But ... but ... isn't this ingredient a reasonably potent one by itself? I ... I don't even know what to do with good ingredients anymore.
    Combine them with Commoner and Truenamer levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    1. The SI only calls out gaining "spells per day" at odd levels...should we take that to increase "spells known" as well for applicable classes or not?
    I'm not sure how to parse this one. I can make an argument that "spells known" should be included as part of an "increased effective level of spellcasting", but there are a few different ways that additional "spells known" are granted. I'm not sure if there's a sufficient rationale that includes them all while still satisfying both RAW and RAI.

    My inclination is to lean towards RAI on this one, and chalk it up to sloppy wording on the part of the designer/editor.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    1. Assuming the bonus feat @ level 2 is a fighter feat, would an entry be restricted to fighter feats from the PHB alone? It mentions the PHB list but doesn't seem to do so in a restrictive manner.
    Table 5-1 is not an exclusive list. Additional fighter bonus feats can be added to it via subsequent supplements. Also, "Text trumps table", so if the text of a feat says it can be added to the list of Fighter Bonus feats, then it is on the list, even if it is not on table 5-1.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    1. Does the required ability to cast 2nd-level spells mean that the entry must:
      • Know/memorize/be able to select more than one unique 2nd level spell?
      • Be able to cast more than one 2nd level spell per day (Even if it's the same spell twice)? Or...
      • Be able to cast at least one 2nd level spell per day (thus casting second level spells over the course of two or more days)?
    I am not a proponent of the "plural" semantic pedantry argument against using Precocious Apprentice. I believe if you have a single 2nd level spell slot, and you can cast at least one 2nd level spell from it, then this counts as casting "2nd level spells" because there is no time limit specified on the requirement. I would prefer to use a Monday/Tuesday criteria for this: if your character can cast a 2nd level spell on Monday and a 2nd level spell on Tuesday (without recourse to scrolls/wands/SLAs/etc.) then you can cast 2nd level spells plural.

    I think the real question you're asking here is "What early entry tricks are allowed?" And while my first inclination might be to say "That's for each judge to determine," I think a blanket ruling by the chairman would be better for both contestants and judges (while hopefully cutting down some lengthy disputes at the end of the round).

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    Got my build stub. Pretty happy with this one =D. More than last one. -

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    got three stubs i'm all reasonbly happy with (been trying my darnest to dodge the obvious ways), now to choose ... the tricky thing is that I think the most interesting one is the one i'm going to have to hammer the most to get to fit the shape of the slot

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    Welcome Back chairman : Spellsword - interesting.. thinking

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    All right, I have the concept figured out, now to crunch some numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Welcome! Warning: bad puns, all levels of optimization, and good fun await. Abandon all hope of productivity, ye who enter here.

    Thanks, I saw the last Iron Chef; but was too late to enter. Although, I couldn't ask for a better SI for my first entry than the Spellsword.

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    Wait, I thought Spellsword had only one level. Now you're telling me there's ten times as much Spellsword as I thought there was? Now I just don't know what to believe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    I think the real question you're asking here is "What early entry tricks are allowed?" And while my first inclination might be to say "That's for each judge to determine," I think a blanket ruling by the chairman would be better for both contestants and judges (while hopefully cutting down some lengthy disputes at the end of the round).
    While the question usually comes up re: early entry, I was just asking for normal entry. Particularly, if a character only knows one 2nd-level spell, does casting it once on Monday and once on Tuesday qualify as casting 2nd level spells, or does it not qualify since he's casting the same 2nd level spell two times? To avoid confusion and heightened disputes regarding qualification for the Secret Ingredient, I'd like our Chairman to weigh in with an official verdict. As always, I appreciate your insights. And not just because I agree with all of them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Bard View Post
    Thanks, I saw the last Iron Chef; but was too late to enter. Although, I couldn't ask for a better SI for my first entry than the Spellsword.
    Iron Chef always confuses me; do you mean "better" in the traditional sense or "better" in the "it's pretty darn awful" sense?

    Also, unrelated: if you tell people you're a secret bard, it's not a secret anymore. Then you're just a regular bard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    I will be judging...

    Originality: I judge compared to entrants (beware the Vizzini effect), with bonuses for really original stuff.

    Power: I judge compared to the offense, defense, and versatility of the SI. This round has high expectations.

    Elegance: I am looking to award for tenure in a class, qualifying for everything, no questionable rules, etc.

    Use of the SI: I have determined 7 factors of the SI which I am looking to award bonuses on and penalize for not using.

    If there are any questions please let me know.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    While the question usually comes up re: early entry, I was just asking for normal entry. Particularly, if a character only knows one 2nd-level spell, does casting it once on Monday and once on Tuesday qualify as casting 2nd level spells, or does it not qualify since he's casting the same 2nd level spell two times? To avoid confusion and heightened disputes regarding qualification for the Secret Ingredient, I'd like our Chairman to weigh in with an official verdict.
    The Chairman has ruled on this subject before, I'd expect the same verdict, that
    I'd rule that it applies to slots, not the number of spells that you can access. Meaning:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    No, more of a grammatical issue. If you can cast more than 1 2nd level spell (be it the same day or not), you're fine. So you cannot enter if you've been imbued with a divine spell (as the Imbue with Spell Ability spell) that has only a single usage. If you can naturally cast 2nd level spell(s), you're good to go.
    Last edited by Tim Proctor; 2014-06-18 at 01:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    Why must the channel spell uses be limited to 5/day? Why?

    I have some ideas, but they aren't really lasting throughout the day. Maybe I'll judge this one. I'll take some time to think on it.
    More like, why does double channel take up 2 uses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadline View Post
    But ... but ... isn't this ingredient a reasonably potent one by itself? I ... I don't even know what to do with good ingredients anymore.
    Hey, I figured that you guys deserved a little break after that harsh duo of Dwarven Defender/Darkrunner.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Kicking some ideas around, but I have some rules questions along the way:

    1. The SI only calls out gaining "spells per day" at odd levels...should we take that to increase "spells known" as well for applicable classes or not?
    2. Assuming the bonus feat @ level 2 is a fighter feat, would an entry be restricted to fighter feats from the PHB alone? It mentions the PHB list but doesn't seem to do so in a restrictive manner.
    3. Does the required ability to cast 2nd-level spells mean that the entry must:
      • Know/memorize/be able to select more than one unique 2nd level spell?
      • Be able to cast more than one 2nd level spell per day (Even if it's the same spell twice)? Or...
      • Be able to cast at least one 2nd level spell per day (thus casting second level spells over the course of two or more days)?
    I'll nab this for you now -
    1. Yes, you should assume that it advances it as normal, no matter how oddly it's worded.
    2. Any feat that a Fighter can pick off of it's bonus list is kosher (so long as you meet the prerequisites, that is).
    3. Tim nabbed this one for me above.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Wait, I thought Spellsword had only one level. Now you're telling me there's ten times as much Spellsword as I thought there was? Now I just don't know what to believe.
    Now you see why I picked this ingredient. I needed to remind people that Iron Chef isn't (only) about terrible PrCs, it's (theoretically) as much about little-used or only ever dipped classes (like this, or say, Dragonslayer).
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2014-06-18 at 01:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    I will be judging...
    Since we've got a volunteer to judge I may just have to jump back into the competitor's seat! That being said, a few quick questions for you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    Originality: I judge compared to entrants (beware the Vizzini effect), with bonuses for really original stuff.
    When you say you're judging compared to other entrants, are you just using that as a guide or will you be awarding a 1 to the least original build, a 5 for the most original build, and stops in between for the rest? I ask out of judgely curiosity since I was thinking of experimenting with that idea myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    Power: I judge compared to the offense, defense, and versatility of the SI. This round has high expectations.
    When you say "high expectations," can you provide a baseline of what you're looking for? Again, asking more out of curiosity than trying to garner ALL THE POINTZ! People are talking about the power of this ingredient, but I fear I'm missing something. It feels kinda...lackluster (which makes it a perfect Secret Ingredient...like kale).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    Elegance: I am looking to award for tenure in a class, qualifying for everything, no questionable rules, etc.
    When you say "tenure in a class," am I correct in reading that a Base Class 10/Spellsword 10 will automatically score higher in Elegance than a Base Class 6/Other PrC 4/Spellsword 10 (assuming no other Elegance issues in either)? Just asking for clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    Use of the SI: I have determined 7 factors of the SI which I am looking to award bonuses on.
    Are you planning on sharing the 7 factors you'll be evaluating when you present your scores? Again, a question of curiosity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    I will be judging...

    Originality: I judge compared to entrants (beware the Vizzini effect), with bonuses for really original stuff.

    Power: I judge compared to the offense, defense, and versatility of the SI. This round has high expectations.

    Elegance: I am looking to award for tenure in a class, qualifying for everything, no questionable rules, etc.

    Use of the SI: I have determined 7 factors of the SI which I am looking to award bonuses on and penalize for not using.

    If there are any questions please let me know.
    I'll bite. Consider these general questions for judges, not specifically aimed at you:

    Folks have weighed in on Partial Casting Classes like Spellsword as an SI before, often indicating that using the SI to progress a base Class's casting would warrant a deduction while also indicating that using the SI to progress a Prestige Class's independent casting (as a random example of independent casting, round XVIII's Dark Hunter) would warrant a deduction. Is it likely to be the case that folks will have to choose which of these deductions they wish to receive, or are full marks possible?
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2014-06-18 at 01:17 PM.
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