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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    The thing is, DoMT uses a table, so at least you know your odds. And you choose if you are going to draw or not.
    I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.

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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    The thing is, DoMT uses a table, so at least you know your odds. And you choose if you are going to draw or not.
    Yea, I was wondering if people like Jedipotter add more (secret) effects into the Deck.
    Although, even as written, there are some effects which are largely dependent on how bad the DM wants to make them (e.g., the Rogue card.)


    Personally I haven't used Deck of Many Things in a non-one-shot campaign. It's too easy for it to screw up the game. As an artifact, it only shows up if I want it to, and I have little interest in messing up my own campaign. If my plans are going to be derailed, I'd rather them be derailed by the choices the players make, not by a randomly drawn card.
    Last edited by 137beth; 2014-07-11 at 10:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    It occurred to me after a suggestion on the horrible campaign ideas thread:
    What are people's views on the Deck of Many Things in relation to uncertain risks?
    As written, it is extremely risky. Do people who want more randomness in the game add more potential drawbacks to using a Deck?
    The Deck is actually different from JP's houserules, as it does not rely on DM fiat. In addition, many people do not use the deck because of how random and potentially game breaking it is. It's much different if the randomness, or pseudo-randomness in JP's case, is ingrained into the campaign. In addition, there is usually a way to circumvent the effect of the Deck, and I have seen them many times. My players love the Deck, especially the PF Harrow version due the increased variety, but have universally agreed that they don't feel comfortable with JP's houserules. Note that I showed them the houserules before showing them the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Personally I haven't used Deck of Many Things in a non-one-shot campaign. It's too easy for it to screw up the game. As an artifact, it only shows up if I want it to, and I have little interest in messing up my own campaign. If my plans are going to be derailed, I'd rather them be derailed by the choices the players make, not by a randomly drawn card.
    My advice on it? Don't bother, unless it's a campaign with a huge amount of down time, and they're sufficiently high enough level.

    I think I'm going to make a "25x25x25 room, deck on a small table in the middle of the room, 5 people, lv10, no teleporting, good luck." campaign on Myth Weavers.
    Last edited by Sir Chuckles; 2014-07-11 at 10:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Actually... that might be an interesting idea. A collection of Playgrounders' favorite D&D-themed or game night-appropriate recipes. Anyone else want to give it a shot? I'll start a thread in Friendly Banter if so.
    that sounds great, post a link once it's up

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    It occurred to me after a suggestion on the horrible campaign ideas thread:
    What are people's views on the Deck of Many Things in relation to uncertain risks?
    As written, it is extremely risky. Do people who want more randomness in the game add more potential drawbacks to using a Deck?
    the DoMT is an interesting thing, people who want more randomness would probably either throw in more drawbacks, or, do what i'd do, and completely remake the table, or even better, actually make the deck, take a standard 52 card deck, and on each card write down one of the cards in a DoMT, remove or add cards as necessary
    (or if you really want, take between 2 and 4 standard 52 card decks, add them together, then hombrew a large number of extra cards. so your players have between a 1/104 and a 1/208 chance of any given effect happening)

    "Can You Cheat at DnD II: SithSnape and the Chamber of Secret House Rules"

    another amazing contender for the next thread name
    Last edited by Somensjev; 2014-07-11 at 10:39 PM. Reason: one of my quotes refused to work
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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Guess I'd ask again: what housrrule does not let a player reliably know what their stats and powers will work in a certain way? Did you read a houserule of mine for Magic Missile?
    The bit where a summon monster spell will randomly summon a different, uncontrollable creature? The fact that sometimes you'll lose your mind when you polymorph/wild shape? (Didn't see any reference to how likely that is to happen). The part a while back where you talked about a cleric's god changing what spell the player tried to cast if he'd disapprove of it? The time you claimed spells would misfire about once per hour?
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2014-07-11 at 10:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddude987 View Post
    Okay I have a serious question for JediPotter, and would perfer a more than yes/no answer. JediPotter, have you ever been a player and spent time creating a character, his/her backstory, how he/she feels, acts, what he/she likes, dislikes, and other details to him/her seem like a fully detailed person? Please, be honest, how would you feel if, after all this work/time/effort spent making a realistic entity in a game world, and then spending more time playing the game, having them grow with character development, your character was squashed by a random event such as rocks falling and them dying, and you had to make a new character?
    Yes. I'd feel bad and unhappy.

    But my game is not a rocks falling type game. As DM, I'm not randomly killing characters. Players are not gaming in fear of ''he could kill my character any second'', they are gaming with the much more healthy caution that they must be careful as their actions could get them killed.

    As I said, almost all death comes from player actions. The hostile summoning thing is rare: 1% chance per spell level, then a one in three chance that it is hostile. And like I said, clever players plan ahead. So they are ready if a hostile creature shows up. Same with the lost mind in a monster: every character has a non-lethal stop to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post

    It's not the rule itself I am standing against, it is how you look at this particular invocation of it. Rick wants there to be a dangerous wacky summon, to trouble Henry due to out of game conflict. Jedi's idea is to nix this by not letting Rick get something to endanger Henry. How is that favoring Rick at all? Sure the best choice would be to just kick the a-hole out of the group but I feel like "butterflies instead of dangerous creature of death to the team" is a fair enough one warning. If Rick doesn't get it by then and stop causing trouble then he gets booted, with just cause.
    As I said, I really hate stopping the game for this type of stuff. I'll just blunt it in the game, and keep the game going. To stop the game, tell three other players to sit around, and go talk is a huge waste of time. If Rick were to keep it up, there would be more actions taken. If he is really disrupting the game with his Henry vendetta, I'll ask Rick to leave. And he would not be invited back.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kantolin View Post
    ¡Random!
    Ok, if you don't know, the Forgotten Realms has regional feats. You can only take the feat(s) if your from that region. Some regions are open and welcome everyone, some do not. In short, no you can't just pick a region for a cool feat and be whatever class and race you want to be. There are limits. You can not be an orc from Evermeet...period. You might need to alter your race class to fit the region or pick another region.

    Now the spellcasting is on top of this, so if you really like a spell or type of spell you should make sure your character is from a region that uses that type of magic and has easy access to the needed components. You can't just pick anywhere and get everything you want....maybe...you might have to pick one over the other.

    This also applies to racial feats and Pathfinder traits. If you like a racial feat, you must be of that race to take it. You can not be of any race and take any feat.


    Guess I'll move the goalposts again.......you might note I never posted the ''loose your mind in a other shape'' houserule. It is, in fact, a will save to resist the loss. And that can be buffed, of course. You should also note Wildshape is granted by a god....so they can act too, as per the divine watching rules.

  7. - Top - End - #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Guess I'll move the goalposts again.......you might note I never posted the ''loose your mind in a other shape'' houserule. It is, in fact, a will save to resist the loss. And that can be buffed, of course.
    That... actually makes some sense, at least to me.

    I'm starting to think that jedipotter is actually a decent DM (and relatively reasonable person in general,) and is just terrible at communication. I could be wrong, of course...

    Just to double-check: Any wizard (regardless of whether they are level seventeen, level twenty, or somewhere in between) who casts a ninth-level summoning spell has a 91% chance of getting exactly what they intended, and a 3% chance each of "the wrong thing, but it's still helpful," "something completely random with little-to-no affect," and "something hostile, and possibly dangerous." Is this accurate? Because it seems relatively reasonable, though kind of unnecessary.
    Last edited by enderlord99; 2014-07-11 at 11:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Yea, I was wondering if people like Jedipotter add more (secret) effects into the Deck.
    Although, even as written, there are some effects which are largely dependent on how bad the DM wants to make them (e.g., the Rogue card.)
    No. No added effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by enderlord99 View Post
    That... actually makes some sense, at least to me.

    I'm starting to think that jedipotter is actually a decent DM (and relatively reasonable person in general,) and is just terrible at communication. I could be wrong, of course...

    Just to double-check: Any wizard (regardless of whether they are level seventeen, level twenty, or somewhere in between) who casts a ninth-level summoning spell has a 91% chance of getting exactly what they intended, and a 3% chance each of "the wrong thing, but it's still helpful," "something completely random with little-to-no affect," and "something hostile, and possibly dangerous." Is this accurate? Because it seems relatively reasonable, though kind of unnecessary.
    That is accurate.





    Quote Originally Posted by chaotic stupid View Post

    "Can You Cheat at DnD II: SithSnape and the Chamber of Secret House Rules"

    another amazing contender for the next thread name
    I like this one....lol

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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    That is accurate.
    that seems reasonable enough, it's unlikely, but still possible
    and the will save against losing your mind is good, there's quite a few easy ways to get an extra +x to your saves


    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    I like this one....lol
    i think that's the first time i've seen you reply to a tangent
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    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Guess I'll move the goalposts again.......you might note I never posted the ''loose your mind in a other shape'' houserule. It is, in fact, a will save to resist the loss. And that can be buffed, of course. You should also note Wildshape is granted by a god....so they can act too, as per the divine watching rules.
    You should really consider posting all your house rules somewhere so people can understand you and your campaigns better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    Just because a given solution might be better than nothing, that doesn't make it a good solution. As is, our noble problem player has constructed a situation in which just about any in-game response is either a huge abuse of DM authority, or a reward for his problematic nature. This is not a good in-game solution, because there is no good in-game solution. Really, the best solution that is not in-game depends on the players involved. If the problem player is acting out of actual and personal anger towards the other player, and the other player isn't cool with it, then it's probably best to call for a stop to it, and threaten a booting. If it's in-game vengeance that is occurring, then it would still partially depend on the other player's opinion of it, but it's otherwise a fair maneuver. Much of the time, the best you can do is ask for it to stop with the assurance that there'll be a better conversation later.
    Yeah I do agree that it is better handled out of game, though I do feel that jedi still has a point in that it is usually unenviable to interrupt a game with such a thing. Although maybe at times it is what has to be done. But it is the possibility of a person not wanting to listen, to stop making a problem even when the DM asks them to, that worries me. It's one of my Red Flags, I guess you could say. If I am running this game, and Rick intentionally tries to harass Henry's character for things out of the game, I would warn him to stop and then hope to discuss it after the game. If he didn't heed my warning, then I would make him go, even if for just the night. But not being willing to respect when others want you to stop something so infantile is a big no-no to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    The unintended consequences are pretty obvious, really. The problem player's best outcome is probably his party member's destruction, but the worst outcome is the destruction of either him or his party mates, and summons that do their best to destroy enemies is easily the second best outcome. It might be even more obvious with a fireball. The problem player always makes sure to catch this guy in his fireballs, and the DM turns the friendly fire off, but now, lookit that, he gets sculpt spell for free. He can even have his target go into direct combat with enemies he intends to fireball. Simultaneously, Mick, the ever-friendly player who never causes problems, gets neither unharmful summons, nor sculpted fireballs. The guy is getting bonuses for being a butt.
    I feel like the two are different enough examples that comparing them is hard. You shouldn't let someone who is causing problems get something that benefits them, and I do not think that making their summon harmless benefits them. It doesn't go after the intended target (Henry), and doesn't threaten the party. The problematic Rick gets nothing from it, unlike making an automatically sculpted fireball to avoid the interpersonal problem. And then we are back to what I mentioned above; give a request/warning (however you want to put it) for Rick to stop. He does stop, then all is well and the issue can be talked over after the game. If he does not stop, he gets booted, either to cool his head for a night or to find a new game if he can't resolve things with Henry.

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    As I said, I really hate stopping the game for this type of stuff. I'll just blunt it in the game, and keep the game going. To stop the game, tell three other players to sit around, and go talk is a huge waste of time. If Rick were to keep it up, there would be more actions taken. If he is really disrupting the game with his Henry vendetta, I'll ask Rick to leave. And he would not be invited back.
    Maybe so, but sometimes it honestly is necessary. It is not desirable to have to stop a game to end disputes but it is better than having to end the session entirely, or to lose an otherwise good player. Though I do agree, if Rick tried to keep it up he would be gone. That is just the consequences of such actions. But there should at least be the attempt to patch things up smoothly first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
    DoMT is... weird. I personally warn players about it, but it is a sort of 50-50 sorta thing.
    As the Penny Arcade guys said, "That thing eats campaigns."
    Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    I feel like the two are different enough examples that comparing them is hard. You shouldn't let someone who is causing problems get something that benefits them, and I do not think that making their summon harmless benefits them. It doesn't go after the intended target (Henry), and doesn't threaten the party. The problematic Rick gets nothing from it, unlike making an automatically sculpted fireball to avoid the interpersonal problem. And then we are back to what I mentioned above; give a request/warning (however you want to put it) for Rick to stop. He does stop, then all is well and the issue can be talked over after the game. If he does not stop, he gets booted, either to cool his head for a night or to find a new game if he can't resolve things with Henry.
    Rick absolutely does get something from it. Just as he would place Henry next to the enemy and toss a fireball in the other example, here too he would place Henry next to the enemy and toss a summons, knowing that the summons wouldn't go bad as a result. Having a jerk-summons is a bad outcome, and avoiding that outcome is a good thing.

    In any case, this is all probably irrelevant next to the main point which I think you do agree with. Out of game problems just shouldn't be solved in game, even if it would be somewhat more convenient. It just turns games into a big ol' mess of personal issues, which is the wrong direction to go when a player is already trying to do exactly that.

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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    The other parts were already answered sufficiently by other folks, so I just want to say -

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    I like D&D. Everyone likes D&D. My house rules are only a couple pages, and a lot of that is spells.
    I actually hate D&D and Pathfinder. Years of playing the mundane characters - or rolling up a Cleric and being expected to just be a healbot - rendered the game less than desirable for me. It's just vanishingly hard to find a good steady game locally that's not one of those, an offshoot, or some variant of World of Darkness. And forget about finding a game of something like Nobilis or Double Cross...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Can You Cheat at DnD II: SithSnape and the Chamber of Secret House Rules
    Argh! You (sort of) beat me to it! I was gonna go with Can you cheat at D&D II: jedipotter and the Cheating of Systems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augmental View Post
    You should really consider posting all your house rules somewhere so people can understand you and your campaigns better.
    As stated... some who knows how many pages and crock-pot posts ago, JediPotter said himself, he likes to change houserules or come up with new one on a whim. He sees houserules as an ever evolving collective to improve the overall dnd 3.5 experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddude987 View Post
    As stated... some who knows how many pages and crock-pot posts ago, JediPotter said himself, he likes to change houserules or come up with new one on a whim. He sees houserules as an ever evolving collective to improve the overall dnd 3.5 experience.
    Man, calling it a collective just makes it sound so much creepier. I should take to using that as the actual group word. I'll say stuff like, "In this game, we're going to be using a collective of houserules," or, "That collective of houserules you've presented us with is bogus." Also, I've decided to use the word bogus more. Thus it is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Ok, if you don't know, the Forgotten Realms has regional feats. You can only take the feat(s) if your from that region. Some regions are open and welcome everyone, some do not. In short, no you can't just pick a region for a cool feat and be whatever class and race you want to be. There are limits. You can not be an orc from Evermeet...period. You might need to alter your race class to fit the region or pick another region.

    Now the spellcasting is on top of this, so if you really like a spell or type of spell you should make sure your character is from a region that uses that type of magic and has easy access to the needed components. You can't just pick anywhere and get everything you want....maybe...you might have to pick one over the other.

    This also applies to racial feats and Pathfinder traits. If you like a racial feat, you must be of that race to take it. You can not be of any race and take any feat.

    Guess I'll move the goalposts again.......you might note I never posted the ''loose your mind in a other shape'' houserule. It is, in fact, a will save to resist the loss. And that can be buffed, of course. You should also note Wildshape is granted by a god....so they can act too, as per the divine watching rules.
    It makes me sad that that was all the reply that Kantolin got.

    Still, let me tell you this:

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    You lumped it all together. The region that gives, say Improved Initiative, has not bats. In a normal game Henry just picks everything and optimizes his heart out. In my game he must pick from his love of bats vs his optimization plan.
    Please, show me a region of forgotten realms that gives, say Improved Initiative, and has no bats. Actually, just show me a region that gives Improved Initiative, period. Existence (or not) of bats is optional.

    If, and only if, there are NO regions that grant, say Improved Initiative, whether they have bats or no I would say that you again moved the goal post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Please, show me a region of forgotten realms that gives, say Improved Initiative, and has no bats. Actually, just show me a region that gives Improved Initiative, period. Existence (or not) of bats is optional.

    If, and only if, there are NO regions that grant, say Improved Initiative, whether they have bats or no I would say that you again moved the goal post.
    I would believe completely that he came up with his own homebrew setting on top of everything else in which only select few feats are available to people born in each given region. I would also believe that spending extended time in another region still wouldn't qualify you for its feats, he'd limit it purely to people born there. I would believe this because everything he's said so far is in line with such a thing.

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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    In which case the regional feats from forgotten realms wouldn't be relevant in this case. But since jedipotter brought them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Ok, if you don't know, the Forgotten Realms has regional feats. You can only take the feat(s) if your from that region. Some regions are open and welcome everyone, some do not. In short, no you can't just pick a region for a cool feat and be whatever class and race you want to be. There are limits. You can not be an orc from Evermeet...period. You might need to alter your race class to fit the region or pick another region.
    I assume they are.

    Specially since Kantolin, apparently, should have known about them. Which brings me to two options:

    A) Jedipotter is referring to the regional feats as written, as such Kantolin was expected to know about them.
    A.1.) Counterpoint: Improved initiative isn't a feat from a region (at least I haven't been able to find one that grants it).
    B) Jedipotter is referring to the regional feats as he houserules them.
    B.1.) Counterpoint: Jedipotter expected Kantolin to know about them. Posing Improved initiative as an example.
    B.1.1.) Interpretation: Kantolin is expected to know jedipotter houserules. Addendum: Such houserules haven't been made available in this thread.

    Both option A and B have their problems, thus I want to clarify.
    Last edited by thethird; 2014-07-12 at 03:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    A) Jedipotter is referring to the regional feats as written, as such Kantolin was expected to know about them.
    A.1.) Counterpoint: Improved initiative isn't a feat from a region (at least I haven't been able to find one that grants it).
    B) Jedipotter is referring to the regional feats as he houserules them.
    B.1.) Counterpoint: Jedipotter expected Kantolin to know about them. Posing Improved initiative as an example.
    B.1.1.) Interpretation: Kantolin is expected to know jedipotter houserules. Addendum: Such houserules haven't been made available in this thread.

    Both option A and B have their problems, thus I want to clarify.
    I believe his argument is that the game designers already have rules of this type in place, and folks here are reasonably fine with those, so it would be illogical of us to take issue with his region locked feat. Basically, even if he never made improved initiative a regional feat, this would still be an issue, because bats are in one region, and regional feat X is in another. The primary issue with that, I think, is that regional feats tend to be squared off against little in the way of other regionally locked stuff, such that the question of region based optimization is usually a pretty simple one. By this argument, people are OK with regional feats because they don't take up much game space, but if every part of the game is region locked, then that becomes a bit more problematic, as it's attaching massive amounts of optimization stuff to what shouldn't be such a major aspect of optimization. It also, of course, favors optimizers who have the wherewithal to negotiate the never-ending maze of region locked stuff, leaving the role players high and dry in terms of just being able to do the stuff they want to.

  22. - Top - End - #1312
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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Ah, I wish I could have been a part of this thread from the beginning. Kudos to all the valiant posters before me, you've given me a lot of laughs. And, eggynack, I hope you don't mind that I sigged a qoute from you from near the beginning, it just made me giggle too much to miss it.

    Personally, I agree with Jedipotter about the whole problem of "I do X, then X happens" in 3.5. How many times, when the Fighter says "I draw my sword", did you just want to smack that cheating-optimizer in the face and say "No! You don't draw your sword! You draw Orcus!". When the Cleric says "I run away from Orcus!": "No! You run into Orcus! Rogue tries to hide? He hides behind Orcus! The bard in a tavern on the other side the town tries to order a drink? How about a nice frothy mug of Orcus?

    Stupid optimized bards.

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    As I said, almost all death comes from player actions.
    But how can it be a player's fault if you control what happens in the game 100%?
    Quote Originally Posted by Baroncognito View Post
    A 1 on your craft: bows roll? I think you've just crafted an angry Polar Bear.
    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    That's not... that's not how opinions work. You can't just opinion your way out of definitions. It's like me saying, "In my opinion, I'm typing this post on a banana." It's just not what's happening.

  23. - Top - End - #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_Moon View Post
    And, eggynack, I hope you don't mind that I sigged a qoute from you from near the beginning, it just made me giggle too much to miss it.
    Is all good. I actually completely forgot I said that one. It was certainly a fun argument to make.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2014-07-12 at 06:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaotic stupid View Post
    i think that's the first time i've seen you reply to a tangent
    Actually, I think he said he likes brownies a few pages back.

  25. - Top - End - #1315
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    Quote Originally Posted by eggynack View Post
    , leaving the role players high and dry in terms of just being able to do the stuff they want to.
    I was with you right up to this point but don't see that as necessarily following.
    I'm still honestly a bit surprised at the umbrage people have taken, outside of (poorly) expressing preferences of versimultude this isn't that crazy of a set of houserules. People do seem to twist things quite a bit rather than applying the principle of charity to jedis comments. Don't get me wrong, there are issues, its just the scope of them, people seem a bit to be reacting to an inflated perception of the scope (something that could be helped by more elusidate comments from jedi).
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  26. - Top - End - #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    That's why I ask as I've likewise seen Gygaxian used to describe ridiculous ecologies of creatures that have seemingly no business being where they are and could not be supported by the environs.

    As to level appropriate encounters, well, 5% of them are supposed to be overpowering (aka unwinable as I read it) so I'm not sure that's something I can buy as being excluded from 3.5. Looking at the sample traps in the DMG we see a cr 10 Wail of the Banshee trap at a fort dc of 23, autoresetting, and can wipe the party pretty easily, and would fall within 20% of the encounters for a level 6 party . Word of Chaos traps likewise are tagged at a cr8 and would fall within a 20% chance range for a party of level 4 (5% chance for level 3, which also equals insta death unless chaotic). There's actually quite a bit of nasty stuff built into the game that could reasonably by RAW end up slapping the party something fierce.

    Well either way, I don't really see anything prohibitive in the rules from a "psuedo-Gygaxian" encounter/adventure/trip to the bakery being anything but one potential and appropriate style to 3.5.
    Have access to a 0E, 1E, or 2E Monstrous Manual? Could you tell me the CR of a Gelatinous Cube in any of those? How about a Red Dragon, of any age? What's the expected rate of encountering any of them: 5%, 20%, or completely random at DM's whim?
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  27. - Top - End - #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_Moon View Post
    And, eggynack, I hope you don't mind that I sigged a quote from you from near the beginning, it just made me giggle too much to miss it.
    See? See? Yet another member of the eggynack argument fan club. It's really not a strange thing to appreciate.
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    amused Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Jedipotter.
    I have ONE question for you.
    Do you have, yes or no, a 50% chance for each character each round of dying?
    Because you said so. Multiple times. To which I answered : please stop using silly hyperboles, because you used so much it was tiring (as you were also suing them for strawmen). But then you told me it was no hyperbole. I told you surely you must have been joking. You told me that no, it was no hyperbole, and you started to look a bit offended.
    Then I can only assume that you told the truth.

    But then you said characters only died because of their actions. Which is not compatible, because there is less than 0,01% chance that any of your player had at least one of his character in the last 100 character he played survive 20 rounds of combat. One hundred characters with complex and varied backstories. So probably all of their character. With those rates, I'm pretty sure none of them ever had a character survive 20 rounds of combat. But then, how can be each of their character death their own faults?

    Is it because htey agree to play in your campaign? I can see the fault indeed, but I must assume that this is not what you meant, because you probably would not agree. Then please explain this.
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  29. - Top - End - #1319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Have access to a 0E, 1E, or 2E Monstrous Manual? Could you tell me the CR of a Gelatinous Cube in any of those? How about a Red Dragon, of any age? What's the expected rate of encountering any of them: 5%, 20%, or completely random at DM's whim?
    You know better than to ask this question me thinks, but to answer it you do have the "frequency" notion for 2e which would provide some restriction on how often you'd encounter, say, a very rare creature such as a red dragon (4%). For older editions, sadly I purged almost all of my 2e and prior material when I moved and have regretted it since. What didn't exist was, once a "very rare" encounter was determined what it would be (an aboleth or a great wyrm red dragon perhaps?).

    I'm still utterly unconvinced that 3.5 is exclusive of the "Gygaxian" model, you can still encounter a great wyrm red dragon at level 1 by the frequency charts (5% for ECL5+ higher than party with no cap) which means that you'd be even MORE likely to encounter that great wyrm red dragon in 3.5 than in 2 as far as I can tell when comparing how the editions handled such things (not exactly easy to compare such separate metrics so alternative interpretations are quite valid).

    Actually now that I think about it, that 4% in 2e could be ANY very rare creature including those that would be steam rolled by the party, where as in 3.5 it's 5% that you ARE going to be up against something that is in effect HIGHER level than yourself and should be able to squish you.

    The challenge to this is that other categories such as "uncommon" could potentially still have creatures substantially stronger than the average party, but in general I'd say that weaker opponents tended to fall into the "common/uncommon" categories.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
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  30. - Top - End - #1320
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    Default Re: Can you cheat at D&D?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    You know better than to ask this question me thinks, but to answer it you do have the "frequency" notion for 2e which would provide some restriction on how often you'd encounter, say, a very rare creature such as a red dragon (4%). For older editions, sadly I purged almost all of my 2e and prior material when I moved and have regretted it since. What didn't exist was, once a "very rare" encounter was determined what it would be (an aboleth or a great wyrm red dragon perhaps?).

    I'm still utterly unconvinced that 3.5 is exclusive of the "Gygaxian" model, you can still encounter a great wyrm red dragon at level 1 by the frequency charts (5% for ECL5+ higher than party with no cap) which means that you'd be even MORE likely to encounter that great wyrm red dragon in 3.5 than in 2 as far as I can tell when comparing how the editions handled such things (not exactly easy to compare such separate metrics so alternative interpretations are quite valid).

    Actually now that I think about it, that 4% in 2e could be ANY very rare creature including those that would be steam rolled by the party, where as in 3.5 it's 5% that you ARE going to be up against something that is in effect HIGHER level than yourself and should be able to squish you.

    The challenge to this is that other categories such as "uncommon" could potentially still have creatures substantially stronger than the average party, but in general I'd say that weaker opponents tended to fall into the "common/uncommon" categories.
    Please remind me where I used the term "exclusive" in reference to the Gygaxian model. Thanks.
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