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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Has anyone had any luck mixing these two disparate PrCs? They seem like they'd mesh well.

    Particularly with sneak attacking spells and receiving additional damage for causing fear-effects. You'd end up with really shaken, really hurting potentially unconscious foes.

    The only problem I can foresee is running into those immune to fear. Is there any way to get around an immunity to fear?
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-02-26 at 11:19 AM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    If you're in Ravenloft there's ways. Otherwise, immunity to fear is just that. Heroes of Horror might have rules for it, but it mostly just sits on my shelf (because I bought it for a Ravenloft campaign that hasn't happened yet, not because it's a bad book) so I don't know for sure.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Dread Witch can punch through immunity to fear, but that's casting based.

    Really though optimizing fear is like shooting fish in a barrel ... the fear mechanics are broken as hell.

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkysBrain View Post
    Really though optimizing fear is like shooting fish in a barrel ... the fear mechanics are broken as hell.
    Heh heh. I made a fear aura based Swordsman PrC ages ago. That could be pretty cruel. It was interesting adapting it to d20 Modern where anyone (anyone being people with 15 charisma and 9 odd ranks in Intimidate) can pick up fear aura as a feat.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    From a flavor perspective, I think that this combination would be exactly WHY there are classes/creatures with fear immunity. For instance if you used this build as a BBEG, the whole party would be running scared except for the Paladin, whose fearlessness would seem really cool in this context.

    If you're using it for a player character, are there really all that many fear-immune creatures? Off my head I can think of Golems and Undead...but they're immune to Sneak Attack anyway, so it wouldn't matter so much.
    Last edited by SpiderBrigade; 2007-02-26 at 02:48 PM. Reason: spelling BAD
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderBrigade View Post
    From a flavor perspective, I think that this combination would be exactly WHY there are classes/creatures with fear immunity. For instance if you used this build as a BBEG, the whole party would be running scared except for the Paladin, whose fearlessness would seem really cool in this context.

    If you're using it for a player character, are there really all that many fear-immune creatures? Off my head I can think of Golems and Undead...but they're immune to Sneak Attack anyway, so it wouldn't matter so much.
    Creatures who are immune to mind-affecting effects are also immune to fear, which is where the badness comes in.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-02-26 at 02:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Again, though, are there all that many creatures immune to mind-effecting? In the basic types I'm seeing Constructs, Oozes, Plants, and Undead, basically. Sure, that covers a lot of ground but a sneaky rogue-type is going to be weak against those regardless of the fear effects.

    I'm not disagreeing that it's a weakness. I just think it's inherent to the character concept rather than something you can work around.
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    True enough. I'll also have minor casting ability, from Nightmare Spinner's req. Now, the question is: do I go more towards caster or more towards roguelike?

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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    I'm a fan of the Avenging Executioner. But Nightmare Spinner requires the ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. And Arcane Executioner is a Skill Monkey PrC. As a general rule, I rarely mix caster and non-caster classes into any build, as it FUBARs your spell progression and your BAB/hit points/AC/Skills, in exchange for very mediocre spells, BAB, hit points, AC, and Skills.

    Also, Fear builds are great, but tons of things are immune to Fear effects. So any caster build that loses 5 caster levels will suck rocks against Undead, Constructs, Plants, Paladins, etc., far worse then a melee combat build would against similar enemies.

    I suggest something in the order of Paladin of Tyranny 3/Hexblade 4/Avenging Executioner 5/Disciple of the Eye 2/Whatever 4

    You might have to mix in some Monk or Ranger for Skill prereqs. Or you could just go strait Monk 6/Disciple of the Eye 5/Avenging Executioner 5

    As far as feats go, Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon is a must. beyond that since every attack should force your opponents to Save or suck/lose 1-3 times, your goal should be to maximize the number of attacks rather then damage. That means Flurry and/or TWF and/or reach weapons and/or Trip abuse.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    See, I was thinking Rogue 3/Battle Sorceror 6/Avenging Executioner 5/Nightmare Spinner 5, and depending on my spells as secondary tools (for things like fly and invisibility) more than primary weapons.

    Good call on Frightful Presence though.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    As always, I have to recommend against anything involving the Unearthed Arcana paladin variants, as they both thematically and mechanically suck.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax_Celestis View Post
    See, I was thinking Rogue 3/Battle Sorceror 6/Avenging Executioner 5/Nightmare Spinner 5, and depending on my spells as secondary tools (for things like fly and invisibility) more than primary weapons.

    Good call on Frightful Presence though.
    Ah, so a Skill Monkey with some spell support and hardcore Fear effects instead of Sneak Attack. I could see that. But mechanically it'd be difficult, and you might have serious MAD issues if you want to mix in any type of Sorcerer.

    Maybe Bard 7/Nightmare Spinner 5/Avenging Executioner 5?

    Or Beguiler X/Nightmare Spinner 5/Avenging Executioner 5? With the right Shadow magic, you could probably pull it off quite well.

    Having said that, you're probably much better off just being an Executioner, and convincing another PC to be a Nightmare Spinner, then convincing a third PC to be a Hexblade/Blackguard, and convincing your fourth PC to be some sort of undead killer. Together, you can accomplish all kinds of synergy that is far more difficult to pull off in an individual build.


    FYI, you might also want to consider various Grafts (Races of the Dragon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness) as several different ones grant Fear effects (in addition to all your other Fear effects) for relatively good prices, though you can only have one type of graft (draconic, undead, etc).

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    As always, I have to recommend against anything involving the Unearthed Arcana paladin variants, as they both thematically and mechanically suck.
    What? Unearthed Arcana variants tend to be mechanically MORE powerful then their standard brothers (Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, Paladin of Slaughter, Wildshape Ranger, Battle Sorcerer, 8 different Monk feat combinations, etc).

    Thematically/fluff wise I won't argue with you, except to say that everything in D&D has serious fluff contradictions, so UA fluff problems are nothing to write home about.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Avenging Executioner + Nightmare Spinner?

    I hadn't considered the Bard or Beguiler, though I might use my Subverter variant.

    Also: aren't the AE's fear effects' saves Cha-based?
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2007-02-26 at 04:18 PM.

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