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Thread: Magic Domain Cleric
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2007-02-26, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Magic Domain Cleric
Ok, my little gaming group (a former 2.0 group with a lot of those old prejudices) has decided to make a new campaign, new DM, cleaning up a lot of the old "house" rules and going "strict" 3.5 (at least initially). Of course, collectively having at least average intelligence (complete with the -1 penalty) a lower than average charisma (made worse by imbibing various spirits) we've renewed some old...discussions. Thus, I think I'll be appealing to the collective wisdom of this board for a little sage guidance (Bears with Lasers, please step up).
Here's a current one. A magic domain cleric, use magic device, arcane scrolls and wands. Can anyone explain to us how/when/why this cleric can use something like a 1st level (spell) wizard scroll or a 3rd level (spell) wand? The inconsistent terminology in the books has our group of "experts" (*ahem*...our two "rules lawyers") deadlocked.
(Note: I'm not including the framework of their debates on purpose so as to not unduly influence the responses)
Thanks in advance.
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2007-02-26, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Granted Power
Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.
Spell completion is the same, except for
To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake.
(to clarify: a 1st level cleric with Magic Domain would have no trouble using a 1st level scroll, or a wand)
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2007-02-26, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Magic Domain
Let's start with a quick quote of the ability of the domain, so we're all sure we're on the same page.
Originally Posted by SRD
Wand: If the spell in the wand is on either the cleric list or the wizard list, our cleric can activate it. No check is necessary.
Scroll: If the caster level of the scroll is 1 (and the spell is a cleric or wizard spell, and also assuming our cleric has already deciphered the scroll), our cleric can activate it without a problem. Otherwise, we need to check out the rules for activating a scroll to see exactly what to do:
Originally Posted by SRD
If the scroll's caster level is higher, however, our cleric needs to make a caster level check: d20 plus his caster level (1 in our example). The DC is the caster level of the scroll + 1. If he makes that check, he's fine and dandy.
(If you need assistance understanding how to decipher a scroll (mentioned above) say the word, and we can discuss that too)
Use Magic Device
Again, some rules quotes to start off:
Originally Posted by SRD
Wand: Anybody with at least one rank in Use Magic Device can attempt to activate a wand; doing so is a DC of 20.
Scroll: Similarly, anybody with at least one rank can attempt to activate a scroll. The DC is 20 + the caster level of the scroll.
Hope that helps...John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2007-02-26, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Ok, essentially, the Cleric can use ANY wizard/sorcerer wand at ANY time, without restriction. Even if he only gets 1 level in cleric. If it is on your spell list, you can use a wand or staff of the spell. It is spell trigger.
Scrolls are a little more complicated. Your wizard level for casting from a scroll is one-half your cleric level (minimum 1)... not your cleric spellcasting level, but your cleric level, so PrCs can impact this. You will also need the appropriate attribute to cast with... either intelligence or charisma, depending on whether this is a sorcerer or wizard scroll. You can try to use any wizard scroll at any time, but if your spellcasting level is less than is required, you might have a problem. If your caster level is less than the caster level of the scroll, you make a caster level check. Roll d20+half cleric level against (caster level of scroll + one). The caster level check will fail on a natural 1. If you succeed, you cast the spell. If you fail, a DC 5 Wisdom check is necessary to avoid a mishap. The Wisdom check will fail on a natural 1. These items are Spell Completion.The Cranky Gamer
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2007-02-26, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2007-02-26, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
A cleric with the magic domain can use all spell trigger items (staves and wands) at level one with no problums.
Clerics can use wizard scrolls just like a wizard of half their character level. That means that they can use a level 1 scroll at level 1, a level 1 scroll safely at level 6, a level 3 scroll safely at level 10, and so on. Keep in mind that the magic domain doesn't increae your int for the purposes of using wizard magic items."Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
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2007-02-26, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2007-02-26, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Wow, thanks for the quick and competent responses. Just to be clear on one point, though, that was the most problematic for us -- assuming you meet the level requirements, spell list requirements, deciphered the scroll in advance and the requisite ability score...do you just "use" the (scroll/wand/rod/ect) or must you make a Use Magic Device Check everytime?
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2007-02-26, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
No, a cleric with the magic domain never needs to make a Use Magic Device check to use a wizard spell completion/spell trigger item unless they are trying to mimic a wizard caster level over half their cleric level or they are trying to mimic some other quality the item needs (like a high int score for example).
Clerics with the magic domain get limited use out of the UMD skill, as it's primary use would be to use bard and druid exclusive spells."Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion
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2007-02-26, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Thanks all, that final point about UMD was the major sticking point, as there was a disagreement about the text. One person tried to argue that this type of cleric was going to have to make a UMD check every time he tried to use any level of arcane (scroll/wand/ect). Obviously, that interpretation would have made that domain less than useful. Thanks to all for clearing it up to his satisfaction.
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2007-02-26, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
The Magic domain does not involve any Use Magic Device checks, regardless of the level of the cleric or the item.
Similarly (just to be sure it's clear), a cleric can - without resorting to the UMD skill - use a wand or scroll of a cleric spell. A wizard or sorcerer never needs a UMD check to activate a wand or scroll of one of their spells, either.
UMD's purpose is for somebody without access to the magic (a rogue, for example) to be able to use an item.John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2007-02-26, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-02-26, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Domain Cleric
Last edited by TheOOB; 2007-02-26 at 11:30 PM.
"Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."
-Shadowrun 4e, Runner's Companion