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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Waaagh! Ghazgkull
    Surrender or Die!

    Special Rules
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    First up, all of the special rules in this book only apply to the Detachment and Formations found in this book. So, you're losing Combined Arms Detachments, which is really bad, but instead you get the Great Waaagh! Detachment. It has 2-8 Troops and 1-5 Elites. Everything else is normal. However, a Warlord from this Detachment can still re-roll Warlord Traits, and roll a D6 for every non-Flier, on a 6, that unit gains Deep Strike. Frankly, I don't see it being much use, and you give up Objective Secured. Unfortunately, you can't use anything out of this book unless you use the Detachment type or the Formations, so, you have to - at least it's an improvement over the Detachment in the core Codex.

    Biggest an da Best: Your Warlord must always issue and accept Challenges. This rule always sucks. But, if your Warlord kills an enemy Character in a Challenge, he can re-roll To Wound in Assault for the rest of the game, so it's not all bad.

    Da Boss iz Watchin': Units from Waaagh! Ghazgkull gain +2 to their Mob Rule rolls, and take less hits from Breaking Heads or Squabble. Neat. Animosity is the worst.

    Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz
    You can't take Relics from the Codex. Not getting Da Finkin' Kap is pretty painful.

    Choppa of da Ragnarok; It's a Big Choppa. Every time you kill one or more models in the Assault Phase, gain +1S and -1 AP. Costs the same as the Killchoppa from the Codex.
    Big Bosspole; Your unit is Fearless. That's really good. Unfortunately, it's expensive. However, you're a horde. Fearless is much more important to you than other armies.
    Da Supa-Cybork; Gain FNP (5+), Eternal Warrior and Relentless. It's okay. Not great. But okay. It's really good on a Big Mek, rather than a Warboss, just so you know.
    Da Killa Klaw; It's a Power Klaw with a terrible rule. Pass.
    Mega Force Field; It's a Kustom Force Field, but 4+...And 75 Points.
    Kill-Dakka; 30 Points for an RNG gun. No thank you.

    Warlord Traits
    A Warlord from this book can only roll on this table, or the one in Codex: Orks.
    1. +1 BS.
    2. Unit gains Crusader... Remember that the Great Waaagh! Detachment is allowed to re-roll.
    3. Rage
    4. Unit gains Outflank. That's...Something, I guess.
    5. One of your Walord's non-Relic weapons gains Master-Crafted. Blergh.
    6. Gain FNP.

    This table sucks. The only barely useful Trait is that you can Outflank. Just roll on the Orks' table.


    Formations
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    Formations are a thing. Since your Great Waaagh! Detachment doesn't get Objective Secured anyway, a lot of these units are actually useful. Keep in mind that these Formations also count as Battle Brothers with Codex: Orks, so you can slot them into your Ork army with no problems.

    Council of Waaagh!: Ghazgkull, Grotsnik, x2 Warbosses, a Big Mek and a unit of Nobz. All one unit, models can't leave or join the unit. It's actually pretty good. The unit is Fearless, and both of the Warbosses have +2 Weapon Skill, and Ghazgkull gains two more bonus Warlord Traits, in addition to the one he already has. It's kind of really good. But, it does mean that this Council is your Primary Detachment - make sure to bring a Combined Arms Detachment from Codex: Orks.

    Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz: If you want to take 15 Meganobz in your Ork army...Don't, and take this Formation instead. The unit causes Fear and is Fearless, and everyone has +1 Weapon Skill. Of course, you still need at least 15 Meganobz.

    Da Vulcha Skwad: Zagstruk and three units of Stormboyz all with the Combine Squads rule from Astra Militarum. The Formation only Scatters D6 when it Deep Strikes. ...It's a lot of Stormboyz...

    Blitz Brigade: If you're a 6th Ed. Ork player and have 5 Battlewagons lying around; Make them a Formation! They gain Scout. Because. Combine with a Detachment of Ghazgkull's Bullyboyz.

    Dread Mob: Big Mek, Painboy, x2 [Gorkanaut/Morkanaut]s, x3 Deff Dreads and at least nine Killa Kans. The Dread Mob gains 'Ere We Go, which is nice. But still, you need to bring 9 Killa Kans though.

    Boss Snikrot's Red Skull Kommandos: Boss Snikrot and four units of Kommandos. All units start in Reserve, all units can choose which table edge they come on. On the turn they arrive, they have Stealth, and, if they don't shoot, they can re-roll their Cover Saves. It's pretty good, if you have four units of Kommandos lying around.

    Green Tide: Warboss and at least 100 Orks, all one unit. If the Green Tide is your Primary Detachment and the Warboss is your Warlord, he can Waaagh! every turn that isn't the first turn.


    Due to the Formations and extra (forced) Detachment rules, this book feels more Supplement-y than other books. There's some very fluffy stuff in here, mostly because GW have decided that Formations aren't just for Apocalypse anymore and you should be allowed to do whatever fluffy thing you want and not have it suck. The Warlord Traits are terrible, and the Relics can't really make up for no Finkin' Kap, so that sucks. But everything else? ...Pretty good. The biggest change is that you can take Ghazgkull as part of his Formation and not use up your Lord of War slot in your Combined Arms Detachment. That said, the meat of this book is the Formations. If your meta doesn't allow Formations, don't buy the book. Pretty simple stuff. If you aren't interested in the Formations, then you must be the kind of person who wins or loses based on how the Mob Rule goes, and Waaagh! Ghazgkull mitigates the Mob Rule somewhat.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    On Ghazgkull's formation: Of course, that many HQs is going to take up an awful lot of your army, so fitting that stompa in will be a bit of a challenge.

    In other news, screenshots of the sanctus reach book confirm a new package is going to be released with models and Dataslates including one for Warboss Grukk Face-Rippa, entitled StormClaw. One theory is that this will be the 7th edition starter set, with Space wolves as the other force.
    Last edited by Squark; 2014-07-05 at 10:32 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    On Ghazgkull's formation: Of course, that many HQs is going to take up an awful lot of your army, so fitting that stompa in will be a bit of a challenge.
    One thing I'm really feeling though, is that GW wants us to play large(r) games, which makes absolute sense because that way they sell more models. The thing that's frustrating me right now, is that a lot of the (vocal) internet is against this, because a lot of the people who actually talk about the game with authority are tournament players. Tournaments are typically 1500-1850 affairs so a lot of the - vocal - internet is totally against all of these 'bigger and better' things because they're never going to use any of it. This isn't because TOs don't want to hold 2500 Point tournaments (I'm sure a lot of them would love to), 2500 Point tournaments don't get held because of time, not because the idea itself is bad - especially if the TO actually does their job and polices the meta (i.e; You can only have one of each type of Detachment, no Unbound, etc).
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Can anyone tell me the official base sizes for the various beasts (Clawed Fiend, Khymera, Razorwing Flocks) in a Dark Eldar Beastmaster unit? I have some ideas for conversions, but want to make sure they'd be playable before putting the time and effort into them. Thanks in advance.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    Can anyone tell me the official base sizes for the various beasts?
    All are 40mm/Terminator bases.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    One thing I'm really feeling though, is that GW wants us to play large(r) games, which makes absolute sense because that way they sell more models. The thing that's frustrating me right now, is that a lot of the (vocal) internet is against this, because a lot of the people who actually talk about the game with authority are tournament players. Tournaments are typically 1500-1850 affairs so a lot of the - vocal - internet is totally against all of these 'bigger and better' things because they're never going to use any of it. This isn't because TOs don't want to hold 2500 Point tournaments (I'm sure a lot of them would love to), 2500 Point tournaments don't get held because of time, not because the idea itself is bad - especially if the TO actually does their job and polices the meta (i.e; You can only have one of each type of Detachment, no Unbound, etc).
    The general game size at the club I go to is 1500-1850, again because 2500 games take up too much time, and people don't want to bring that many models across, especially as half the people there rely on buses/trains to get home. That point size for tournaments makes sense as it means that you should be able to fit in 3-4 games in a day, whereas with 2500 you'd probably be looking at two, unless one of the stipulations is you have to take a Lord of War, which generally cost over 500 points anyway. And then there are issues with some Lords of War being utterly broken (The flying Daemon Lords being the first thought). I'd have no issues playing 2500, but I also understand that from initial setup to packing away, you're probably looking 4-5 hours.

    In other news, looks like there's a Space Wolves vs Orks box set coming out as a DV "replacement". Nothing concrete yet, apart from it looks like there's a new Space Wolf captain in there, which looks pretty cool. It wouldn't surprise me massively if they just put the same Ork force in as AoBR, especially as in the mountain of Ork releases that came out, Deffkoptas have yet to make an appearance.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Not just time, space too. For my 1500ish points of Tyranids, I need a large shopping bag. For my 3500-4000 points of Skaven, I need two shopping bags for the models and a backpack for the accessories like dice, templates and books. I hate taking that all on the train.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    As a father, I proudly present to you this piece of Imperial Propaganda.
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    Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)


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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Not just time, space too. For my 1500ish points of Tyranids, I need a large shopping bag. For my 3500-4000 points of Skaven, I need two shopping bags for the models and a backpack for the accessories like dice, templates and books. I hate taking that all on the train.
    At the moment, All of my Chaos, except for the Forgefiend and the Heldrake fit into a standard sized KR case. The Turkey and the Dinobot go in another box, which is then filled up with foam for transport. This then goes in a backpack with rulebooks, dice, templates, etc, which means that it's normally two bags for me if i'm gaming. Fortunately, the club is a 10 minute walk from my apartment, and the train station to either of the other two places I play are also a ten minute walk, then about that the other end.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    I have a bunch of Battlefoam cases to carry my army, but it's nearly 9k points of Guard including all the superheavies. I normally don't carry it all with me unless I'm going to play Apocalypse.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Foam is way too expensive for an intern budget. I have four cheap plastic boxes (2.50 each) and a roll of kitchen paper.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    So I'm thinking about getting back into 40K, problem is I'm around 1.5 editions back by now (I played Chaos Marines back in...5th?). So now I'm just enough that I'm in the dark about the new best places to start when building a force.

    Now I'm looking at starting Raven Guard with Imperial Guard allies for air support. I know about Vendettas being one of the most effective air units available to Marines, and I could get a Stalker if need be, and that Rifle Scouts and Tac Squads are probably going to be the core of army, but outside of that and what I've read in the Guides here I could use a little direction.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Still have any old models? Because that's pretty much always the best starting point. Unless you play in tournaments, there's really only a handful of units out there which are objectively terrible. (DAMN YOU, PYROVORES!)
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    I am thinking of building a small 500 point Chaos Space Marine force mostly to use some spare parts I have left over from my AM/IG projects. I was thinking a Sorcerer, a Marine Squad, and some cultists, at the bare minimum. They will be Slaanesh themed to coincide with the nature of parts I have.

    The big thing about this army is its using leftover Wytch bits from converting Guardswomen out of Wytches and spare Guard limbs. I get only 6 Useable torsos from a box for my Guard so I have 4 torsos left over from each box for 16 Slaaneshi cultists so far. I am getting another box when I start for a total of 20 Cultists. Each Wytch box has leftover heads that I intend to use to make Slaanesh corrupted Marines. Cause Slaanesh is the only way to get (mostly) fluff legal Female Space Marines.

    The big question is where do I go from a single Marine squad, a Sorcerer, and 20 cultists? Step 2 may be a Forge Fiend, or Bikers.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Still have any old models? Because that's pretty much always the best starting point. Unless you play in tournaments, there's really only a handful of units out there which are objectively terrible. (DAMN YOU, PYROVORES!)
    Only an old Rhino that most definitely won't see any use in a Loyalist Army, sadly. The eyes and insect legs kinda rub the Chaplains the wrong way.

    I guess I'll just go with the same method I did when I got into Chaos years back: get what looks cool/is a decent deal and work it out from there.

    How does the Stormtalon compare to the Vendetta? I kind of want to run a Raven Guard w/Imperial Guard allies as air support. But then I remembered the Vendetta got hit with a fairly hefty points increase that might make it too expensive for the role I'd need it to fulfill. The Stormtalon...I just don't know a heck of a lot about aside from twin-linked assault cannons.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Herm... Well, part of the problem is that Raven Guard are probably the worst off chapter in the game (One of their chapter tactics gives them stealth first turn, which happens 50% of the time anyway, and scout, which you can also get from K'orsarro Kahn, who is a) a great pick to begin with, and b) comes from a powerful chapter. Their other chapter tactic improves jump infantry. The problem there is that if you want jump infantry, you take Blood Angels for the all important objective secured. Or rather, you would, if Blood Angels weren't hurting like hell at the moment).


    If bolters are your thing, Dark Angels and Imperial Fists are both good choices (The former have a banner that projects a 24" radius that makes bolters salvo 2/4 weapons, meaning if you don't move, bolters fire 4 shots. The latter re-roll 1's to hit with all boltguns). Guard allies are never a bad thing, although they do most of your scoring, generally. Vendettas aren't bad, but they're pricy for an allied detachment, especially since their transport capacity can only hold a special weapons squad or a command squad.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    As a father, I proudly present to you this piece of Imperial Propaganda.
    Congratulations on convincing your spawns that Space Marines are cuddly
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    Now I'm looking at starting Raven Guard with Imperial Guard allies for air support. I know about Vendettas being one of the most effective air units available to Marines, and I could get a Stalker if need be, and that Rifle Scouts and Tac Squads are probably going to be the core of army, but outside of that and what I've read in the Guides here I could use a little direction.
    Warning; Raven Guard are the worst. To effectively build Raven Guard you need to do a couple of things; No Bulky models. You lose Bikes, Jump Infantry, Terminators and Centurions, and I'm sure you lose other things. But, effective Raven Guard armies don't use more than one unit of Jump Infantry, and that doesn't make any sense. If you're playing Raven Guard, Shrike is a must, then grab an Assault Squad or Vanguard Squad to back him up. I prefer Vanguard since they have better access to AP2 to support Shrike - Melta Bombs are good too. Aside from that, even I still don't know what to do with Raven Guard aside from spam Rhinos (Tactical Squads). If you can get access to Korvydae's rules in IA8, then Assault Marines-as-Troops-in Rhinos (Remember, Raven Guard actually don't like Jump Infantry) are actually very good.

    Blood Angels give you Assault Marines as Troops, too. The downside is that everything in the BA Codex is slightly more expensive than it's Codex counterpart, and, you don't get the cool Codex toys, like Stormtalons and Thunderfire Cannons. But, if Assault Marines as Troops is your jam, you don't need to go to Forge World to do it. However, there are some free Chapters and Characters from Forge World. Notable example in this case is the Fire Hawks - forerunners of the Legion of the Damned - who make your Assault Squads and Vanguard Objective Secured - based on updates to Pedro Kantor, not actually RAW.

    Vendettas were good for Marines back when they were 130 Points. In 7th? Stick with Stormtalons and 'Ravens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambell View Post
    Cause Slaanesh is the only way to get (mostly) fluff legal Female Space Marines.
    No it's not. At best, they'll be males with gynecomastia. Or males with anime-esque features that only make them look like women.

    The big question is where do I go from a single Marine squad, a Sorcerer, and 20 cultists? Step 2 may be a Forge Fiend, or Bikers.
    I swear by Forgefiends. If you're going Assault-heavy, pick up a Maulerfiend. Bikes lost a lot of effectiveness when 7th made them harder to shoot with. The Twin-Linked Boltguns are fine because Twin-Linked and two shots. But Meltaguns get one shot and aren't Twin-Linked and Flamers can't really be fired at all unless you're being Charged. That said, they'll still be I5 and so not completely awful at Assault - although these days I'm more inclined to Nurgle-Raptors. I'm never not going to suggest that any and all Chaos players pick up a Heldrake, too.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-07-06 at 08:48 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Herm... Well, part of the problem is that Raven Guard are probably the worst off chapter in the game (One of their chapter tactics gives them stealth first turn, which happens 50% of the time anyway, and scout, which you can also get from K'orsarro Kahn, who is a) a great pick to begin with, and b) comes from a powerful chapter. Their other chapter tactic improves jump infantry. The problem there is that if you want jump infantry, you take Blood Angels for the all important objective secured. Or rather, you would, if Blood Angels weren't hurting like hell at the moment).


    If bolters are your thing, Dark Angels and Imperial Fists are both good choices (The former have a banner that projects a 24" radius that makes bolters salvo 2/4 weapons, meaning if you don't move, bolters fire 4 shots. The latter re-roll 1's to hit with all boltguns). Guard allies are never a bad thing, although they do most of your scoring, generally. Vendettas aren't bad, but they're pricy for an allied detachment, especially since their transport capacity can only hold a special weapons squad or a command squad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Warning; Raven Guard are the worst. To effectively build Raven Guard you need to do a couple of things; No Bulky models. You lose Bikes, Jump Infantry, Terminators and Centurions, and I'm sure you lose other things. But, effective Raven Guard armies don't use more than one unit of Jump Infantry, and that doesn't make any sense. If you're playing Raven Guard, Shrike is a must, then grab an Assault Squad or Vanguard Squad to back him up. I prefer Vanguard since they have better access to AP2 to support Shrike - Melta Bombs are good too. Aside from that, even I still don't know what to do with Raven Guard aside from spam Rhinos (Tactical Squads). If you can get access to Korvydae's rules in IA8, then Assault Marines-as-Troops-in Rhinos (Remember, Raven Guard actually don't like Jump Infantry) are actually very good.

    Blood Angels give you Assault Marines as Troops, too. The downside is that everything in the BA Codex is slightly more expensive than it's Codex counterpart, and, you don't get the cool Codex toys, like Stormtalons and Thunderfire Cannons. But, if Assault Marines as Troops is your jam, you don't need to go to Forge World to do it. However, there are some free Chapters and Characters from Forge World. Notable example in this case is the Fire Hawks - forerunners of the Legion of the Damned - who make your Assault Squads and Vanguard Objective Secured - based on updates to Pedro Kantor, not actually RAW.

    Vendettas were good for Marines back when they were 130 Points. In 7th? Stick with Stormtalons and 'Ravens.
    Thanks.

    Overall effectiveness doesn't bother me much. I'm pretty much on the less-competitive side. Though it's looking more and more like I might be painting Raven Guard, but using...say...Ultramarine chapter tactics. I'm thinking the army in my head isn't gelling well with what the Ravens offer...

    I dunno, all very up in the air at the moment. Looks like the SM Strike Force might be the best place to start currently. The 5-man Vanguard box could combine with the Assault Marines in the set for a 10-Man Vanguard squad, then I've got the 2 tac squads and rifle scouts, Rhino, Drop Pod, and I could harvest the command squad and commander for parts or something if need be.

    Don't know much about the local meta. I know there's a Necron player and at least one Tau player, maybe 'Nids...not that any of that matters, the last time I played any of these armies was 5th ed.
    Last edited by Cristo Meyers; 2014-07-06 at 09:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    Overall effectiveness doesn't bother me much. I'm pretty much on the less-competitive side. Though it's looking more and more like I might be painting Raven Guard, but using...say...Ultramarine chapter tactics. I'm thinking the army in my head isn't gelling well with what the Ravens offer...
    Well, how is the army in your head behaving? Once we know that, we might be able to recommend you the crunch that best matches the fluff you enjoy. Instead of just trying to optimize some that are clearly not doing what you want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidhawk View Post
    Well, how is the army in your head behaving? Once we know that, we might be able to recommend you the crunch that best matches the fluff you enjoy. Instead of just trying to optimize some that are clearly not doing what you want.
    At the moment I'm liking the idea of an aerial, mechanized force. Foot units in Stormravens or Drop Pods (probably Drop Pods, Stormravens are just too pricey to consider more than a single one), with fire support from Devastators, Thunderfire Cannons, and Sniper Scouts on the ground. At least a single Stormtalon for aerial support.

    I can see a place for Sternguard, definitely. Less so Terminators. Don't know anything about the Centurions. Bikes I just don't like, never have.

    Assault Marines and Vanguard could have a place, but I'm warring with the fact that in my head their role would be filled just as well by the Tactical Squads. This is where I started looking at the possibility of going with the Fire Hawks, but they don't appear to be updated for 7th ed.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    Though it's looking more and more like I might be painting Raven Guard, but using...say...Ultramarine chapter tactics.
    [...]
    The 5-man Vanguard box could combine with the Assault Marines in the set for a 10-Man Vanguard squad.
    If you're using Ultramarines, then you don't need Vanguard at all. Only reason to use Vanguard is if you're playing Raven Guard. If you're not playing Raven Guard and still want Vanguard, then you want Honour Guard. The thing you need to know about Codex Marines is that not all units are useful for all types of Chapter Tactics. Vanguard are useless and/or outshined in all Chapters except Raven Guard, and, in Raven Guard, the only reason you take them is because Shrike must be deployed in a unit of Jump Infantry, and you are taking Shrike. So, even then, it's not that Vanguard are any good, it's that you're making the best out of a bad situation.

    Ultramarines are a totally different kettle of fish.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    At the moment I'm liking the idea of an aerial, mechanized force. Foot units in Stormravens or Drop Pods (probably Drop Pods, Stormravens are just too pricey to consider more than a single one), with fire support from Devastators, Thunderfire Cannons, and Sniper Scouts on the ground. At least a single Stormtalon for aerial support.

    I can see a place for Sternguard, definitely. Less so Terminators. Don't know anything about the Centurions. Bikes I just don't like, never have.

    Assault Marines and Vanguard could have a place, but I'm warring with the fact that in my head their role would be filled just as well by the Tactical Squads. This is where I started looking at the possibility of going with the Fire Hawks, but they don't appear to be updated for 7th ed.
    For drop pod assaults, Ultramarines and Salamanders are the two most popular choices (not counting space wolves, who you probably don't want considering the different aesthetic). Ultramarines can twin-link the shooting from all tactical squads for a turn (and let every other non-vehicle re-roll 1's to hit), allowing you to make the most of the alpha strike (although savvy opponents will hold key units in reserve to force you to make tactical decisions about when to use the ability), while Salamanders get twin-linked flamers and, with Vulkan He'stan, can get a bunch of master-crafted meltaguns (Both weapons are ideal for drop pod assaults). Given your leanings, ultramarines sound like a good choice.
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    Space Marines update; For almost a year, I've missed the fact that Dreadnoughts have been nerfed into the ground. SM Dreadnoughts do not have Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, they have Power Fists. This means that they'll always go last in combat - at the same time as Melta Bombs and other Power Fists. This means that Ironclad Assault Launchers - which function as Frag Grenades - do nothing. Do not buy. Lucky for me, I've always thought Dreadnoughts were terrible and haven't used them aside from dual Autocannons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Space Marines update; For almost a year, I've missed the fact that Dreadnoughts have been nerfed into the ground. SM Dreadnoughts do not have Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, they have Power Fists. This means that they'll always go last in combat - at the same time as Melta Bombs and other Power Fists. This means that Ironclad Assault Launchers - which function as Frag Grenades - do nothing. Do not buy. Lucky for me, I've always thought Dreadnoughts were terrible and haven't used them aside from dual Autocannons.
    Unwieldy doesn't reduce initiative of Walkers, carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Unwieldy doesn't reduce initiative of Walkers, carry on
    /headdesk.
    Did it work that way in 6th, too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    /headdesk.
    Did it work that way in 6th, too?
    *finds previous rulebook*
    Yep, though it never came up for me. Makes sense, though.

    I agree that Dreadnaughts aren't great units though. I'm lucky to have one of the better walkers in my book, but even the Stalker isn't that great (mostly just brought for low AP shooting and Twin Linking).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristo Meyers View Post
    At the moment I'm liking the idea of an aerial, mechanized force. Foot units in Stormravens or Drop Pods (probably Drop Pods, Stormravens are just too pricey to consider more than a single one), with fire support from Devastators, Thunderfire Cannons, and Sniper Scouts on the ground. At least a single Stormtalon for aerial support.
    Okay. Here we go. This list totals to 1494 - put Melta Bombs on something;

    (W) Chief Librarian Tigurius - 165 Points

    You're playing Ultramarines. Tigurius is one of the best Psykers in the game - falling only behind Be'lakor. If you're not bringing Tigurius, you're doing it wrong.

    Tactical Squad (x10); Meltagun, Combi-Melta + Drop Pod - 195 Points
    Tactical Squad (x10); Meltagun, Combi-Melta + Drop Pod - 195 Points
    Scout Squad (x5); x3 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher, Telion - 118 Points


    Solid Scoring presence. Remember that in non-Kill Point missions, feel free to Combat Squad the Tactical Squads to get two separate Melta shots, just in case one happens to blow the tank in one shot. Telion gives his Scout Squad Stealth, which is really important. Sure, you can give the squad Camo Cloaks, but I'd just pay the extra 30 Points and pick up Telion, he's really good - like Tigurius.

    Sternguard Veterans (x8); x2 Plasma Guns, x2 Combi-Plasmas + Drop Pod - 293 Points

    Your third Drop Pod. Taking straight Plasma Guns seems counter-intuitive to normal Sternguard. But, you're playing Ultramarines. Not all tactics apply to all Chapters. Combi-Weapons only get to be used once. But, between Tactical Doctrine, Storm of Fire, and Prescience, Ultramarines have at least three turns in which their Sternguard can straight up ignore Gets Hot! on Plasma weapons and Vengeance Rounds. Meltaguns will work equally as well, but, negating the downside of Gets Hot is a big plus IMO - but that's why you have Meltas on your Tactical Squads, they still benefit from Tactical Doctrine, and SoF and Prescience both have ranges. Not-Tigurius Librarians don't get Prescience, not-Ultramarines don't get Tactical Doctrine, and Tigurius is the only Character in the Codex who is guaranteed Storm of Fire. Tigurius is a massive force multiplier, and that's in addition to being one of the most reliable Psykers in the game.

    Stormtalon Gunship; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 125 Points
    Stormtalon Gunship; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 125 Points

    Who doesn't like dual Fliers?

    Devastator Squad (x7); x4 Missile Launchers, x2 Flakk Missiles - 178 Points

    After extensive use of Devastators, I've found this to be an optimal setup. However, since you're not Fists, you're not going to have Tank Hunters and 'pretend' AP2 on your Missiles against Buildings. So, maybe you want to take those Flakk points and upgrade to two Lascannons or something - that's where your play testing comes in.

    Thunderfire Cannon - 100 Points

    Your list is very Reserve heavy (lucky you have Tigurius, right?). Bolster Defences means that what you do have on the board, isn't going to die as easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    For drop pod assaults, Ultramarines and Salamanders are the two most popular choices (not counting space wolves, who you probably don't want considering the different aesthetic). Ultramarines can twin-link the shooting from all tactical squads for a turn (and let every other non-vehicle re-roll 1's to hit), allowing you to make the most of the alpha strike (although savvy opponents will hold key units in reserve to force you to make tactical decisions about when to use the ability), while Salamanders get twin-linked flamers and, with Vulkan He'stan, can get a bunch of master-crafted meltaguns (Both weapons are ideal for drop pod assaults). Given your leanings, ultramarines sound like a good choice.
    Less different aesthetic, more I've done Space Wolves before. They were my first army. Way, way back when. Before Ragnar Blackmane's hair turned black. Plus rumormill says they're getting a new codex soon-ish, so I'd be buying blind.

    Thanks for the tips. I'll be using my own color scheme, so I'll be able to work with different Tactics to see which one works best. Probably Ultramarines unless the situation calls for something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Okay. Here we go. This list totals to 1494 - put Melta Bombs on something;
    Thanks. Looks like I'll be getting that Strike Force to start, then. All three troops and one drop pod right off the bat, the assault marines can become extra tactical marines if there's enough pieces left over, everything else is just another option I can toy around with. See what I like.

    Ah, Telion...it'll be nice to not be on the receiving end of his shots for a change...
    Last edited by Cristo Meyers; 2014-07-07 at 09:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40k Tabletop XXI: Preferred Enemy (Dice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Space Marines update; For almost a year, I've missed the fact that Dreadnoughts have been nerfed into the ground. SM Dreadnoughts do not have Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, they have Power Fists. This means that they'll always go last in combat - at the same time as Melta Bombs and other Power Fists. This means that Ironclad Assault Launchers - which function as Frag Grenades - do nothing. Do not buy. Lucky for me, I've always thought Dreadnoughts were terrible and haven't used them aside from dual Autocannons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    Unwieldy doesn't reduce initiative of Walkers, carry on
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    /headdesk.
    Did it work that way in 6th, too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    *finds previous rulebook*
    Yep, though it never came up for me. Makes sense, though.
    Didn't we have this argument about 3-4 threads back?

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